[Bigjake]

http://www.charleston.net/stories/080203/loc_02shootingx.shtml

Laying down the law

Fed up with crime, 67-year-old man fires on 3 engaged in shootout in his front yard
BY STEVE REEVES
Of The Post and Courier Staff

The last time police came by his Tripe Street home to investigate complaints about drug dealing in the West Ashley neighborhood, William Gates made it clear to them that he had had enough.
"I told the police, 'Bring the coroner and body bags the next time you come out here,' " he said. "Nobody is going to run me out of my home."

The coroner and body bags weren't needed Friday morning because when Gates made good on his statement, he only wounded the men he shot. But it wasn't for lack of trying.

"I shot to kill," he said. "I'm not going to lie to you."

Roused from his sleep by the sound of gunfire about 4:30 a.m. Friday, the 67-year-old Gates took up his 12-gauge Browning automatic shotgun, stepped out onto his front porch and fired three blasts at men he said were drug dealers having a shootout in his front yard.

When the shooting stopped, three men lay wounded. Gates is said to have hit two of them, and the third is thought to have been hit during the initial shootout.

Gates, a semi-retired brick mason who drives a battered blue Chevrolet S-10 pickup truck with an airbrushed tag on the front bumper that says "Godfather," said Friday afternoon that he was only protecting his wife and house from what he describes as out-of-control neighborhood thugs in their teens and 20s who drink beer and sell and take drugs in his yard. He said gunshots fired near his house during drug-related disputes are a common occurrence.

"I had had enough," he said. "If I have to go to jail, so be it."

While police did not publicly approve of what Gates did, they filed no charges against him Friday.

"We have no plans to arrest him," Charleston Police Chief Reuben Greenberg said. "We can't see from where we sit where a crime's been committed. People have the right to provide for their safety, and we believe that is what he was doing."

Greenberg said the decision on whether Gates will be charged will be made by the solicitor's office, a decision likely to come early next week. Meanwhile, Greenberg said police patrols in the neighborhood will be increased.

Gates was born in the house on Tripe Street. It was his parent's house, and they passed it on to him when they died.

Tripe Street was a good part of the neighborhood at one time, Gates said, but began going downhill fast about 10 years ago. The narrow, tree-lined street is home to many houses that have seen better times and, according to police, the area is a magnet for illegal activity, much of it drug related.

"Drugs, stealing, a little bit of everything," said Gates' wife, Yvonne.

She said that last year someone fired a shot through their living room. The bullet hole can be seen in the wall that faces the street.

"The good Lord was with me that day because I had just moved my grandbaby from that couch," Yvonne Gates said. "She would have been killed because the bullet hit the couch."

The Gateses' yard is littered with empty 32-ounce beer cans and other trash they say was put there by the young people who loiter in the area until the early hours of the morning.

William Gates' anger finally reached critical mass early Friday morning when he and his wife were awakened by the gunshots, which police say was likely the result of a dispute over drugs, outside their bedroom window.

Gates said he heard his wife yell and fall to the floor.

"I thought they shot my wife," he said. "I went and got my gun and fired three shots."

Investigators were trying to determine exactly who shot whom, but it is known that Kevin Hazel, 27, was found lying in the bushes in front of the Gateses' house. He had been shot in the back with a 9 mm pistol. Matez Hazel, 24, and Christopher Hampton, 22, both suffered shotgun wounds.

All three were in intensive care recovering from their wounds. Police said Friday they don't know yet whether the three men, all of whom previously have been in trouble with the law for drugs, will be charged with any crimes.

Police found a 9 mm handgun and three spent shell casings next to Matez Hazel, and said he had a small amount of marijuana wrapped in a $5 bill in his sock.

Gates, who is an avid hunter and proudly displays two large mounted deer heads among the photographs of children and grandchildren in his living room, had all seven of the guns he owns confiscated by the police until their investigation is complete. He vows that he will be ready if friends of the three men try to retaliate, and he smiled as he said he planned to acquire a gun to protect himself.

"They better make sure they get me if they come back, because if they don't get me, I'm going to kill all of them," Gates said. "I'm 67 and don't have that long to live anyway."

Gates said all he wants is peace and quiet and to be able to come home to his wife and not see drugs being sold in front of his house. He said he refuses to move.

"Why should I go?" he said. "I'd sooner be dead."

[Bigjake]

good article, but why did they comfinscate ALL his guns? i wouldn't surender any others besides the one used in the shooting, under any circumstance, thats the last thing this guy needs if them 'bangers come back looking for revenge.

[TheeBadOne]

While police did not publicly approve of what Gates did, they filed no charges against him Friday.

"We have no plans to arrest him," Charleston Police Chief Reuben Greenberg said. "We can't see from where we sit where a crime's been committed. People have the right to provide for their safety, and we believe that is what he was doing."

Kudos

-------------------------------------

good article, but why did they comfinscate ALL his guns? i wouldn't surender any others besides the one used in the shooting, under any circumstance, thats the last thing this guy needs if them 'bangers come back looking for revenge.

Pretty standard stuff. It's to prove who's shots hit/killed whom. That way you can eliminate gramps as the killer of all 3, who called in and made up a self-defense story after killing 3 kids walking through his yard.

[Justin]

Gates said all he wants is peace and quiet and to be able to come home to his wife and not see drugs being sold in front of his house. He said he refuses to move.Let that be a lesson: Beware tired old men who just want peace and quiet.

Good article, I'm glad everything came out ok for him.

[4v50 Gary]

Kudos to Gates. I hope he gets another gun before relatives of those maggots decide to visit.

[blue86buick]

grrrrr...

...Gates took up his 12-gauge Browning automatic shotgun...
who?
Greenberg said the decision on whether Gates will be charged will be made by the solicitor's office...
Police said Friday they don't know yet whether the three men, all of whom previously have been in trouble with the law for drugs, will be charged with any crimes.

Police found a 9 mm handgun and three spent shell casings next to Matez Hazel, and said he had a small amount of marijuana wrapped in a $5 bill in his sock.
1) I bet he doesn't have a pistol permit, or a CHL (might not be necessary there)
2) All have been in trouble for drugs, yet they had a gun? Isn't that a disqualifier?
3) Discharging a firearm within city limits? Shooting after dark? Trespassing?
4) Possession of marijuana?

I would HOPE they could find something to charge these guys with...

[Mark Tyson]

Greenberg is still chief of police down there after all these years? He gained a reputation back in the 90's as a real effective administrator, and from what I understand he cut crime quite a bit. He's an interesting character - he's black and Jewish, yet he was made police chief of the city where the civil war started. I've heard him say some pro-self defense statements in the past.

[Keith]

I wish I lived in the area. I'd drop by and loan Gates a gun until he got his own back.

Keith

[Mark Tyson]

Man, that is one tough old guy.

[veloce851]

Sorry.. if in the same situation I'd have no problem releasing the firearm used.
But they would need to come back with a warrant to take any other firearm I own.

There is no legitimate need to take all my guns. period.

If they can't figure out where a bullet came from.. then they will have to come back and then I might consider releasing any 9mm(or whatever caliber bullet they can't locate the origin on) firearms I have so they can rule mine out.

[Orbital-Burn]

I want his address, I'll donate him a gun. ( as a loaner till he gets his back )

[Bigjake]

Thats exactly what i thought. nothing wrong with a little cooperation on our parts, but taking all the guys guns? come on. i guess that guy should be greatfull that the police were cool with his handling of the situation and that he isn't stuck in court now over it (at least with the police, who knows if he gets nailed in a civil suit for shooting up these missguided children that were really "good kids deep down")

[goon]

What state is this guy in?
Perhaps we could come up with a little slush fund and send it to this guy toward the purchase of another weapon.

[Standing Wolf]

I like news stories with happy endings.

[P95Carry]

Can hardly blame him for dealing with the scumbags ... hell ....... shootout and dealing in his front yard .. that's trespass and also if bullets flying plenty enough reason for SD use of his gun.

Pity he didn't set em all up with wooden boxes .... hope he comes out clean and doesn't get more trouble from the perp's buddies etc.

[Chipperman]

He's lucky they just took his guns.

He told the cops last time to bring body bags, meaning he intended to kill them. That's premeditation. In a lot of states, he'd be sitting in jail for attempted murder right now.

I'm glad he's where he is and that the cops are apparently being pretty cool about it. Maybe some of the thugs will think twice now about where they conduct their 'bidness. :cool:

[Orthonym]

Wait, he used a shotgun? Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought shotguns didn't leave rifling marks on the pellets. Huh? I mean, he TOLD the police he shot those fellows. Why do they need to look for physical evidence?

[Mark Tyson]

The story indicates there was a gun battle taking place, lots of rounds flying. The cops are probably just trying to piece together what happened.

[Ironbarr]

A year or so back the South Carolina Attorney General opened the door for citizen "defense"... as I remember the article(s), he said they (BGs) standby since he wasn't going to try anyone defending themselves on their home property.

I think it might be in TFL archives if someone wants to search it.

If that's still true then it's a moot point - no charges.

-Andy

[cool45auto]

:what: Engaging in a gunfight between other people in his yard? That guy's got guts.

[JohnKSa]

He needs to keep his mouth SHUT. He's going to talk his way into a cell if he can't shut up.

[Majic]

Chipperman, while it true he could be brought on charges, he also has on record of a prior police report and the evidence that someone shot into his home. Self-defense would be a consideration then.

[abaddon]

This is why they took all his guns:

He could have fired the first shot with a 9 mm and finished up with a shotgun. Then stashed the 9 mm in his gun safe and claim that someone else fired first. Then, sometime before the ballistics reports are done, he tosses the handgun he used in a lake. The police can't find the gun that was initially fired into the gangbanger so they assume it was someone else who got away un-injured. (At least that's what I would do...if so inclined:D ). Still, I would hope either they don't have a waiting period or he has a friend with a gun.

[280PLUS]

:evil:

they take ALL his guns??? that aint right,,,

thats like inviting the rest of the gangbangers over for a party,

isn't it??

:eek:

[Blain]

What state did this happen in?

[greyhound]

Took place in Charleston, South Carolina....

They ALWAYS take all the guns. We had a case here in MD where some kid was playing with his father's revolver and shot himself in the leg. So, naturally, they confiscated all the father's guns. (Here in MD as well as many other places its illegal to make possible a minor getting hold of a gun). Though certainly the father was (legally) wrong in not locking up his guns and (morally) wrong for not teaching his son right, he has forever forfeited his right to own a gun.

And from what I understand its almost impossible to get 'em back.

[Safety First]

As I read some of the responses I am relieved to see several others feel the same as I do. If I lived near him I would sure as heck loan him a gun with plenty of ammo. I can't believe the police left him defenseless at at time when retribution is a high probablity. I really don't think the police are going to leave an officer there to protect him. Maybe I am silly,but it seems to me if he ever needed a gun for protection, it is now:fire:

[veloce851]

he has forever forfeited his right to own a gun.

so this is a felony charge???

And from what I understand its almost impossible to get 'em back.

On what grounds can they take them for good? without just compensation.



I think I would take them back (wouldn't have given them up in the first place. They need a warrant to come and take them) and promptly move from MD. (would never move there or even visit MD in the first place)

[greyhound]

so this is a felony charge???

Only a misdemeanor w/a $1,000 fine, but here in MD all handgun purchases must be approved by the State Police, so though technically he is legal to purchase somehow I bet somehow he gets the dreaded "DISAPPROVED".

Though methinks upon reflection maybe I overstated the case.:rolleyes:

[Moparmike]

So tell him to move to another state. Or do a private purchase.

[Kaylee]

way to go grampa!!! :D

[Waitone]

Event took place in Charleston, SC.

SC's attorney general a while back declared open season on home invasion perps. He instructed state wide jurisdictions to not prosecute good guys involved in defending against home invasions.

BTW, a rash of home invasions in Charleston was the cause for declaring open season.

[Browns Fan]

Agreed, pretty stupid of the police to take all of his guns... no call for that at all, unless they intend on letting the BG's take him out. I would think that he has local friends that would give him a loaner if asked. I would, he appears like a responsible gun owner/hunter to me.

[veloce851]

ha ha ha... just noticed Bill Gates took out 2 badguys on his front lawn. :)

Wonder if the punks names were Torvalds and McNealy? :D

[Bostonterrier97]

Lets send this man a box of 12 gauge shells and a Thank You card!

[ACP]

Quite frankly, I'm stunned this old man isn't facing some type of assualt or attempted murder charges. Were the perps shooting at HIM? How was his life immediately threatened in a manner that he couldn't have reacted to in any other way, such as moving to a rear room or calling police? He obviously was just ANGRY, and was taking his anger out with his shotgun.
But that's no grounds for use of deadly force.

So the lesson I learn from this is, if two people are in the street in front of my home, at 2 a.m., car doors open, and they're shooting at each other, I can shoot to kill them with my shotgun or rifle from an upstairs window? I don't think so....

[JohnKSa]

His only problem is his mouth.

What the idiots were doing on his front lawn was endangering him and his family. You don't have to get out there in the dark and check to see where the shooter's sights are pointing to verify what is the exact level of danger to you and your family. Shooting in a populated area, with just a very few, tightly defined legal exceptions, is considered to be a potentially lethal activity, and he was justified in using deadly force to bring this dangerous activity to an end.

[veloce851]

Were the perps shooting at HIM? How was his life immediately threatened in a manner that he couldn't have reacted to in any other way
based on previous events...
She said that last year someone fired a shot through their living room. The bullet hole can be seen in the wall that faces the street. "The good Lord was with me that day because I had just moved my grandbaby from that couch," Yvonne Gates said. "She would have been killed because the bullet hit the couch."

sounds justifiable to me.

Granted I'll agree he wasn't wise to spout off at the mouth about bringing body bags.
However that doesn't change the fact that the man's family had been and was in danger.
Go to a room in the back and call the police? And what, wait for a half hour while a stray bullet kills your wife or child??

As stated they were trespassing on his lawn.
Men on property firing guns = imminent threat to my family and me.

[JW2]

This would never happen in California.

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/6450684.htm

Posted on Sun, Aug. 03, 2003

Police say they don't plan to press any charges against a 67-year-old...
Associated Press

CHARLESTON, S.C. - Police say they don't plan to press any charges against a 67-year-old man who fired shots at people he said were drug dealers involved in a shoot-out in his front yard.

However, the final decision on whether to charge William Gates rests with local prosecutors, Charleston police Chief Reuben Greenberg said.

"We have no plans to arrest him," Greenberg said. "We can't see from where we sit where a crime's been committed. People have the right to provide for their safety, and we believe that is what he was doing."

Gates had told police about drug dealing in his neighborhood that often spilled over into his yard.

"I told the police, 'Bring the coroner and body bags the next time you come out here,' " he said. "Nobody is going to run me out of my home."

Gates was awakened by the sound of gunfire about 4:30 Friday morning. He stepped out onto his porch with his 12-gauge Browning automatic shotgun and fired three blasts at three men in his front yard.

Police say Gates hit two of them, and the third is thought to have been hit during the initial shootout. The men, Kevin Hazel, 27, Matez Hazel, 24, and Christopher Hampton, 22, were in intensive care recovering from their wounds.

Gates, a semiretired brick mason, said he was only protecting his wife and house. "I had had enough," he said. "If I have to go to jail, so be it."

Information from: The Post And Courier

[KC]

Wonderful! Maybe we should get his address and send him a box of shells, and a bottle of Clorox to wash down his section of sidewalk.

I just hope that he survives what the 'law enforcement' community will do to him.

[JW2]

Hopefully nothing... SC generally has a wonderful stance on people who use firearms to defend themselves and their property.

[Standing Wolf]

Thanks, Mister! You've done your family, your community, and the nation a kindness.

[Duncan Idaho]

Pretty standard stuff. It's to prove who's shots hit/killed whom. That way you can eliminate gramps as the killer of all 3, who called in and made up a self-defense story after killing 3 kids walking through his yard. No offense, but anybody that can't figure out that a person could shoot the first one with a - let's say a Lorcin .380 - whack the next two with the shotgun, toss the Lorcin into the heap of carcasses; then call the police, and have them do their "standard stuff" i.e. clear all of the other guns in the home as not belonging to the fatal slug, has no business investigating crimes.

Taking all of his guns is just about taking his guns. No solid evidence would be obtained by taking any gun(s) other than the one(s) he admitted to firing, or the one(s) the police have reason to believe that he fired at the scumbags on his lawn.

Scumbags gunned down on the lawn. I love happy endings.

[444]

He needs to find a more effective load and or weaopn. This won't be the last time he will need it.

[Blueduck]

Folks I'm sorry but somebody reading some of these comments might actually take them seriously and get themselves in even worse trouble at the scene of shooting.

"They have no reason to take all my guns"- Yes they do, several posters have explained why.

"They need a warrant to take my guns"- No they don't.

"They wouldn't take my guns"- If thats the call by the on scene personnel yes they will, It's not up to you. Your options at that point are to stand there while they take them, fight them and go to jail for the night while they take them, or leave on a slab before they take them, your call.

Good example of why not to keep all your eggs in one basket nothing more nothing less... Don't make a bad situation worse by trying to play Johnnie Cochran when you don't even know the rules.

[Duncan Idaho]

"They have no reason to take all my guns"- Yes they do, several posters have explained why.And I would like to see one reason that made the least bit of sense.

[Kaxter]

[quote]"I'm 67 and don't have that long to live anyway."[\quote]

That is the funniest thing I have heard in weeks.

[Byron Quick]

OK,

Listen, folks, things are way different in different states. I seriously doubt that this shooting, as reported, will result in any charges against Mr. Gates.
This is South Carolina, people. Same thing goes in Georgia except maybe in downtown Atlanta...maybe.


Hmmm. Taking ALL of a man's guns who has just had to use one in self defense in his own home is police SOP, huh? Even when 1) Two are shot with shotguns and he admits using a shotgun, and the other has a wound consistent with a 9mm and a 9mm is found in the yard?

What if ALL of the man's guns had been shotguns? Would the police still confiscate all of the man's weapons...even when the odd wound was definitely not a shotgun?

If so, the S in SOP should be changed from "standard" in this instance in order to conform with reality.

It ain't standard in my neck of the woods or at least it wasn't a few years back. The last time I had personal knowledge of local police procedure it was not standard practice. I've known several men who've shot people in self defense. Only gun taken into evidence was the one used in the shooting.

[Matt1911]

"He smiled and said he plans on aquiring another gun"
He does not seem to worried,makes me wonder if one of the LEO's might have "loaned"him on of his "throw aways".

[Cosmoline]

In fairness to the reporter, I've often seen period sources referring to the old humpback Auto-5's as "Automatics"

[SC_shooter]

He IS in South Carolina. He has no duty to retreat and may defend his property (curtilage).

It's a damn shame that he didn't turn every one of them bastards into a cloud of red mist with the 12 gauge.

[Carlos]

Let's just hope an overzealous career prosecutor won't make an example out of him - somebody who has a set.

[abaddon]

444 said,

"He needs to find a more effective load and or weaopn. This won't be the last time he will need it."

I think that for close-quarters work, a shotgun could be ideal. These gang-bangers are not likely to attack him from outside 30 yards. As to why he only injured them, maybe he needs to work on his aim, or maybe switch to buckshot (if not already using it).

Jeff

[444]

That is basically what I was thinking. If he isn't using buckshot, he should be.

[blue86buick]

It's a damn shame that he didn't turn every one of them bastards into a cloud of red mist with the 12 gauge.
I don't think a 12ga shotty will turn a person into mist, the way it'll turn clays into a puff of dust. :D

[TheeBadOne]

Good example of why not to keep all your eggs in one basket nothing more nothing less... Don't make a bad situation worse by trying to play Johnnie Cochran when you don't even know the rules.

- Blueduck
Great advice.

As for his load, it worked just fine and stopped the threat in it's tracks, with out overpenetration or ricochett hurting anyone.

[Bruce H]

If idiots decide to have a gunfight in my front yard my wife, son, and I will try our absolute best to kill everything that ain't us. Give the man his hardware back.

[Bigjake]

somewhat unrelated, but i remember a time a few years back when a drugged up BG broke into my uncles house (uncle being an avid shooter and ffl holder)... long story short when the cops arive, they find him & 2 teenage girls holding the guy prisoner with a 2 glocks and a 12 gauge in the driveway

[atek3]

<sarcasm>
screw the shotty. Should have used an Alexander Arms 50 Beowulf w/ an Eotech holosight. On his head should have been PVS-7B and over his torso GoldFlex weave body armor (w/ ceramic inserts).
</sarcasm>

atek3