[agent00]

Hi, I am intersted in historical arms and I would like to buy an cape and ball revolver for plinking.. But I have no experience with sixshooter would be the best model for a black powder newbie...

thx for your answers in Advance


Greetings from Austria.:)

[Pancho]

My vote would go to the Uberti 44 cal.1860 Colt Army or the 36 cal. 1861 Colt Navy. Since your buying with euros the price hike we're suffering shouldn't effect you.

[Pancho]

If you haven't already read the stickie at the beginning of the forum. It is a great primer for cap and ball revolver owning and shooting.
Greetings from Ohio

[agent00]

thx for your answers, buying an uberti gun ist a good idea, I can get theme here in austria at a good price. I have the check the bullet suply and then I will decide if a buy an colt army or colt navy. What about the recoil of this bp guns? I have no experience with bp guns, but I can handle my ruger gp100 with full power 357 mag loads quite well..

[Macmac]

There will be some recoil, but more the feel of a .38 in that Gp 100.

That would be then the .44 feels more 38ish, and the .36 cal could be less..

[Im283]

whatever style or caliber you choose stay away from brass framed
revolvers if possible. I can't believe Panch or Mac did not say it first.

Reading the sticky at the top of the sub forum is a must.

[Shawnee]

All things considered I would go with the stainless steel Ruger Old Army.

However... if you want a pistol that is historically correct, my vote is enthusiastically for the Uberti 1862 Pocket Navy - .36 caliber - steel frame.


:cool:

[Macmac]

I don't see much bad about brass frames SO LONG as you don't shoot MAX loads more often than not.. Small loads in Brass works fine.

Say in a .44 about 18-20 grains of FFFg reel black powda' with about 20 grains worth of corn meal filler. How much wallop does one need to kill a paper target?

[Im283]

This post is mainly to get rid of the devils number as my post count total.
Yikes :what: Thanks for pointing out that to me Mac, no bad ju-ju needed here.

I been using about 20 grains of Pyro in my 58 Remington and I also top it off with 20 grains of Instant Grit's. Gets the ball closer to the end of the cylinder and has made my shots more accurate. The grits pour much easier than the other stuff I was trying.

I used to shoot 30 grains of BP out of my brass framed '51, but am doing that with the same recipe as the '58 now. No sense beating up a gun to scare paper.

Using grits to fill the cylinder has provided more compression too. The rammer seems to push things down a little better with them grits.

[DuncanSA]

OK, you don't need much wallop to kill a paper target, you could put the poor beastie down with an airsoft or a pellet gun!

I enjoy the historical connotations of BP cap and ball revolvers. The kick, bang and cloud of smoke that accompanies their use is what its all about. I doubt if many troopers back in the 1861 Difference of Opinion put much cornmeal into the chambers of their pistols.

Shooting these weapons accurately with the load for which they were designed is the real challenge.

[Ghost Tracker]

Ruger Old Army. It's not "period correct" but it'll be something you'll never, NEVER wear out.

[agent00]

Thx again for your answers. And I am intersted in buyging an historical correct sixgun. I will check the prices and then I will decide which gun I'll buy, an colt 1860 army or an colt navy..:D

[Macmac]

Well a Brass frame loaded fer Bear every single time you shoot it all day long will fail at some point. back in the day you worked all day for 10 cents but the gun was 2 bucks, so itwas 20 days between guns maybe.

I bet a lot of practice was done with lesser charges to save powder and to save lead. But I don't KNOW that.

What I do know is I shoot paper into a back stop that on occasions, usually all shot up I can salvage lead and make new from the old, but then being of Scot heritage I might just be cheaper than you guys are. I am willing to bet I am the cheapest of the cheap around here too! LOL And if not my wife is, but that's another tale.

The question is are you shooting a paper plate always loaded for bear? If so you for sure need a steel frame.

[Macmac]

Agent don't for get the 1858 remingtons

[Pancho]

Im283 is right I'd avoid the brass frame guns. There is a reason why the steel frame guns are a few euros more. My leaning towards the Colt reproductions is just from the heart. I love the look and the feel of them. The Remington reproductions are great guns. After all Remington had Colt as an example to design a gun that was an improvement over the Colts that were offered, but no designer can cover all the bases. Remington addressed some of the problems that the Colts presented but created some new problems as well.
The bottom line is, buy a gun that looks and feels good to you. Make sure it is made by a manufacturer that will build the gun with the quality you expect, I have some prejudice here, and will say that I prefer Uberti.

[sundance44s]

For Easy ..first timer I`d say ..go with the 1858 Remington ...much easyer , to use . everyone here knows the Colts can be a pain in the ars at times ..like when you take it out of the box and try to take the cylinder out .
I worked on my first Colt Navy an hour to get the wedge out of the barrel first time ...I thought what a poor design ..Remmies rule !!

[dwave]

I'll have to toss in with the 1858 also. I believe that it is a great beginners gun. Can be had in .36 or .44. You also don't have to worry about caps falling into the action and jamming things up either, which is a problem with the colt replicas.

[Mausermike]

1858 Remington comes apart very easily to remove cylinder, or even as a method to quickly reload a charged cylinder. It also has sights that don't disappear when you pull the trigger.

However, in terms of "point" hand down (IMO) the Colts are nicer. The 1851 Navy just points like a dream IMO, and for paper punching you can hardly find a better load than .36 cal round ball. .44 models use more powder if that's your preference. You get used to the hammer notch sight picture after a while. It is generally agreed that the Colt will run for longer without cleaning as well, due to the design of the cylinder pin.

Finally, IMO the Colts just look better to my eyes as well.

Herzliche Grüßen aus Kanada!

[Perk]

Speaking as one, who's entire BP arsenal consists of one revolver, I'd have to throw in with the, "Take a '58 Remington to lunch bunch."

Can we guess why? :D

[scrat]

ok i have 3

the 1860 for sure is the easiest slickess design. Very easy to use and fire. Nothing compares to the Walker though Uberti for sure.

[Perk]

ok i have 3

Okay, scrat? you are not helping. Now am thinking, "Will probably not want to disconnect and reconnect my '58 to the shoulder stock, too often. And will, therefore, need another sidearm. And, why not an Uberti for the next one? Then I can compare, for myself. Heard a lot about 'em, so..." Grr. :fire:

[agent00]

Thx again for your great answers. Yes the remington 1858 is a good looking revolver. I will check the prices today and then I will decide what sixgun I will buy.:) and does anybody know a good website or book about loading cape&ball revolvers?

[mykeal]

Read the stickie post at the top of this forum. Best 'how to' around.

Best book about the various handguns is "Percussion Pistols and Revolvers, History, Performance and Practical Use" by Mike Cumpston and Johnny Bates.

Also, Sam Fadala's books for Gun Digest are good overall summaries on many aspects of black powder shooting.

[sundance44s]

Here`s a tip Cabelas has the 1858 steel frame Remington on sale for 169.00 untill sometime in March ..It`s a one time buy thing ...You won`t find a better deal on a new one .Here`s a little history http://www.floridareenactorsonline.com/revolvers.htm

[Mausermike]

I'm not so sure shopping at Cabela's is a viable option for someone in Austria :confused: Just driving one back across the border to Canada is a lot of hassle.

Here, BP revolver reproductions are regulated as a "real" handgun. Kind of a joke, considering a real pre-1898 BP revolver is an antique and nothing more than a lump of metal to the authorities.

[sundance44s]

That might be a problem !

[Pancho]

I just called Cabela's and they said that they can't do it.

[mainmech48]

Though my personal favorite is the Colt 1860 Army, I would recommend an 1858 Remington replica for someone just getting started.

The Remington design offers a much simplified take-down for cleaning and maintenance, better sights (if only marginally) and fewer parts to keep track of.

IMO, the Uberti-made replicas have some small practical advantages. The dovetailed front sight offers a much easier and more convenient alternative to turning the barrel in or out to correct for windage error. The rear is truly 'fixed' and therefore not subject adding a random element into the sighting equation with every cocking.

I would second buying the steel framed model. More rugged and much less subject to wear over the longer run. I'd also suggest that a .36 caliber might be a good option to consider. What I'm thinking here is not so much less recoil, as there really isn't that much in a .44 C&B, as that they use less powder and the balls are generally a good deal cheaper, too. Don't know if that's an issue for you in Austria, but perhaps something to think about if you'd rather keep the expenditures to a minmum while you're experimenting.

[bigbadgun]

sundance I was just checking the cabelas site and didnt see the remmie for $169 maybe im blind.

[Shawnee]

I couldn't find it either. :confused:

Sundance - are you under the incoholfuence of alcohol again ???

[sundance44s]

Well no here it is ....Master Catalog Spring 2008 ..it says( one shot save offer expires 3/3/2008 ) guess you`all didn`t get the memo ...lol ..give them a call ..this is true ..169.00 bucks for the steel frame 1858 remmie 44 . haven`t seen a new one for that price in years ..I might buy one and resell it latter .

[Pancho]

Page 461 of the Spring 2008 catalog.

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

////

[Pancho]

G of the C Spring 2008 edition 1 page 461. You've got a different catalog because the one I just got has only 507 pages in it.

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

////

[agent00]

Hello.:). I have checked the pices of the different uberti models and I wil start with an remington 1858. Thx for your help.


ps I have also seen an ruger old army at a good price, but as i want to start with an historical correct gun, the remington ist the better choice.

[Evil One]

I bought 2 1858s from Cabelas last week.
$169 for each.
However one was in the wrong box... I got the 5.5" barrel for the 8" price.
Went back... found out it was a mistake... and left with the 8"
http://a737.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/6/l_66ac49a8c6d89e86acfc2053755c66e8.jpg


Jim

[Mausermike]

Who makes these Cabela's BP revolvers?

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

////

[sundance44s]

G of C it doesn`t look like a miss print and it is for the steel frame 1858 ..it`s not on sale in the hard back catalog it`s the Spring 2008 paper back Master Catalog on page 461 .the sale price is high lighted in red and there`s a oneshot save 30 bucks sticker over the gun ...If you want one I`d call them and make them stand behind this catalog sale price...says offer expires 3/3/2008

[agent00]

And what do do you think about the qualtiy of Uberti? Do they make good guns?

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

////

[Pancho]

I've been disappointed by Pietta but not by Uberti. In my opinion Pedersoli has the best quality and they do have a 58 and if I remember right the parts are made in Germany but they are expensive. Second to Pedersoli would be Uberti and then Pietta. The Spanish made guns are last.

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

////

[1858remington]

I would, as my screen name suggests, say that the 1858 Remington is by far the best pistol for a beginner.

It was my first gun.

The remington, is easier to dissassemble, and easier to clear a problem than the colt.

Remingtons also tend to shoot more to point of aim, Colts all shoot high.

You can get a Remme with adjustable sights, good for a beginner.

And if your new to black powder, deffinitly get a stainless gun. good for when you forget to clean after a shoot.

Another reason to get a remmie..... Its easy to drop in a conversion cylinder and shoot modern 45colt loads. R&D and Kirst make great conversions.

[sundance44s]

Nothing wrong with the Pietta Remmie at all ..mine was nice out of the box ..and just got better with time . My Uberti on the other hand , smoother action out of the box ...fit and finish on both are good though . Both are so well built these days ..it would be hard to say which is better ..expecially compairing prices .

[Evil One]

I didnt know about the sale price on the first 1858 I bought... was just pleasently surprised by it.
The 2nd one... well, I went there with intent to buy it for the sale price.
Guy behind the counter had no clue about the sale and tried to tell me it was $199. We took it to the cashier in firearms for a check... sure enough... $169.
I am considering grabbing a couple more to sell later on when the price on em jumps again.


Evil

[waynecrothers]

I agree with all the above posts that the 58 remmington is best for the beginner. I would also suggest a 44 cal as pyrodex does make pellets in 30 grain for this caliber. It would make for easier loading for a beginner. I would also get a extra cylinder and get everything in stainless for cleaning purposes. Also if you ever want to convert to cartridge the 58 is well suited and kits are readily available. I happen to own a couple of 60 colts and yes I do like the looks and feel of them, they do have design issues. Take my word for it go with the 58 Remmingtons, you won,t be sorry

[Perk]

K. Okay. One-hundred-and-SIXTY-nine-dollars for an 1858 Remington. A Pietta 1858 Remington. Great price. But, not saying I’ll buy one. It would mean I’d have an almost identical revolver, as a back-up gun. Which, not saying that saying that I’ll buy one. Could use the conversion cylinder, when the other one is attached to the stock; not saying that saying that I’ll buy one, though. Spare parts, in a pinch. Resale value. Could have a yard sale, this weekend. Still, not saying that saying that I’ll buy one.

But, maybe it won’t hurt to just order the spring catalog and sort of, kind of have a look-see at what Cabela’s has to offer. For, ah… educational purposes. Yeah. That fall catalog is getting kind of dog-eared, anyway. And, if the new catalog doesn’t get here in time I can just give them a cal… Oh.

Yep. Am all running out of nials – de-nial-ing, right now, in fact. :cuss:

[berkmberk1]

I just checked Frankonia Jagd to see what they offered in blackpowder. It seems like you have as good a choice as we do....maybe better with the exchange rates being as they are. They offer a Pietta built steel frame 1851 Colt Navy in .36 or .44 caliber for 245 Euros. I recently picked up the same pistole in .44 cal. It seems very well made. Its my first one also. I chose it because it seemed to have all the qualities......long, sleek, readily identifiable in many, many photos from our Civil War.......I also got a great price......$165 or 239 Euros.......about what you would pay.

I assume you can purchase from Germany.......maybe even have it bought and shipped to you........but then, your laws are different from ours.

Whatever you choose, have fun!

[Perk]

$165 or 239 Euros

Don't wish to cause a problem. Hope I don't, anyway. Doesn't $165 equate to 'bout a quarter over 113 Euros?

'Course, I could be stuffed full of poop, here...

[mykeal]

This morning, 1 US dollar is 0.6842 Euros, or 1 Euro is $1.4615.
Thus 239 Euros is 1.4615*239=$349.39
$165 is 0.6842*165=112.89 Euros. Pretty close to 113 Euros.

[sundance44s]

Well ...the Cabelas 169.00 price was just too good to let fly by ...I called and ordered one this morning ...do I need it ...NO I`ve got 5 1858`s already ...this will make it an even number 6 . I`ve also been thinking of cutting the barrel down to 3 inches on one of my older ones to make a snub nose 45 with the conversion cylinder ...might be a nice winter project . Guys they still have them and that price is still good . I noticed one on Gunbroker for 250.00 the price keeps going up never down ...get them while they last .check it outhttp://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=92319695

[bigbadgun]

That remmie that Cabelas has on sale is it the 5.5 inch barrel or the 7.5 inch barrel? I really need to know because if its the 7.5 im gonna call today.

[waynecrothers]

these remmingtons, are they the brass frame or the steel frames at Cabelas? I already own 3 Piettas but whats one more. I,d prefer the shorter barrel as I already have a 7.5 and a 12 inch. Probably going to convert 45 long clt and use as saddle gun.

[agent00]

Thx again for your great advise. I have ordered an remington 1858 from Uberti today. It should arrive in 2 weeks.:D I will report when I have got my new sixgun.:cool:

[Evil One]

The Cabelas $169 pistols are the steel framed 8" long barrels.


Jim

[sundance44s]

Yep steel framed 44 cal 8inch barrel ...1858 Remington...I just couldn`t resist the price ...good greif I don`t know how many is enough ...well when I saw the add on gunbroker ..I thought ..can`t go wrong . I think the first one I bought from Cabelas years ago was 179.00

[bigbadgun]

I just ordered mine I well have it on the 22nd.

[Rebel Dave]

Can anyone post a catalouque number for these 58 Remington's on sale at Cabellas. That would jelp out when calling in to order one. Thanks
Rebel Dave

[Pancho]

Rebel Dave, The catalog number is CJ-21-0082-1858 New Army. Catalog page # is 461

[Rebel Dave]

Thanks Pancho
This will help order them , I hope, if any one is going to. I don't have any of they'er paper cat's.

Rebel Dave

[Blckmrbl]

I got one of the Cabellas 1858 Navys a year ago. It's been decent. If I had it to do over again I probably would have gone for one of the stainless ones. While not being period correct, I wouldn't have to clean it as fast after shooting.

[Rebel Dave]

I just ordered One from Cabellas. I could not bring it up at that price on my computer. I called it in, and was told they are indeed on sale at $169.99. Mine will arrive on the 25th of March. I think it will be a minor investment at that price, the way prices on goods are going. Just keep it NIB unshot.

Rebel Dave ( still unreconstructed)

[Perk]

Got so excited, today, that my wallet ran down my leg. While it was out, it called Cabela’s and ordered another ’58 (due to arrive, on the 25th). The first has the target sights and will be mated to a shoulder stock (also on order). Since this one will function as a sidearm only, the standard blade will do just fine.

The salesman, on the other end of Cabela’s ordering line, wasn’t sure about there being a sale on the revolver. So, initially, there was a lot of hemming and hawing. But soon’s he heard the stock number, Pancho had provided, he found the right ad.

Well, that’s two. Should be covered for a while, right? Right?

[bigbadgun]

good luck with that Perk

[sundance44s]

Gee think Cabelas will send me a comission check ?? LOL .. Really we couldn`t go wrong with that price , heck sell it latter for what ya paid for it .
I bet some folks bought more than one , to sell latter .

[LEE3370]

Well Sundance44s, if not a comission check, at least another 58.