two stage triggers


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Soybomb
February 11, 2008, 09:16 PM
I really love the 2 stage triggers on my k31's but I've never had the chance to try one on a semi-auto rifle. I'm considering trying a 2 stage trigger for my ar15 but don't really know what to expect before I drop the cash. I generally like a trigger with a short reset length. Do the two stage triggers move the reset point further out than a standard trigger?

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K3
February 11, 2008, 09:25 PM
The K-31's first stage is l-o-n-g compared to what you find in a typical AR. Very long. The first time I fired the K-31, I was very suprised even though I had dry-fired it prior. You can definitely feel the 2 stages on the Swiss machine.

I had an AR that had a 2 stage match trigger. Once I got used to it, all was well. I had to really get in tune with the rifle because to my fumbling fingers, the first stage was subtle. After I developed a feel, I was able to consistently shoot 3/4" 5 shot groups at 100 yards with my handloads. Got one group that measured a hair under 5/8. Kinda wish I'd kept that rifle.

Soybomb
February 11, 2008, 09:35 PM
The K-31's first stage is l-o-n-g compared to what you find in a typical AR. Very long.
:D Thats what I was worried about, I'd put one in the ar and then have to practically let all the way off the trigger for a long k31 style pull between shots.

Bazooka Joe71
February 11, 2008, 09:37 PM
What type of AR 15 are you putting it on? I mean is it a HD type of AR or varmint rifle?

Soybomb
February 11, 2008, 10:36 PM
HD/plinker, and yes I'm aware of the problems that people have with rra's two stage and it wouldn't be that one ;)

W.E.G.
February 12, 2008, 12:55 AM
I love my Rock River two-stage trigger.

Take up is identifiable, as is the "hand-off" point where the second stage kicks in.

The second stage breaks clean, with negligible overtravel.

Bazooka Joe71
February 12, 2008, 01:04 AM
HD/plinker, and yes I'm aware of the problems that people have with rra's two stage and it wouldn't be that one

What problems have people been having? I have one and it is perfect for a HD/plinker.

Take up is identifiable, as is the "hand-off" point where the second stage kicks in.

The second stage breaks clean, with negligible overtravel.

Agreed.

Soybomb
February 12, 2008, 01:14 AM
What problems have people been having? I have one and it is perfect for a HD/plinker.

Some seem to have longevity problems. As I recall the pin holding the disconnector seems to not stay in place. I seem to recall that some also have their second stage disappear over time. Ymmv. I believe some people and vendors put in a different pin to prevent the issue.

So you guys would say then you don't feel like the reset distance is noticably increased with the two stage?

Mr White
February 12, 2008, 01:16 AM
I know a high master and a master who shoot RRA 2 stage triggers. I shoot a RRA 2 stage.

I wasn't aware of problems with them either. Please elaborate.

Brian Dale
February 12, 2008, 05:23 AM
I suggest that you get John Holliger's tuned two-stage trigger from White Oak Armament (http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/); break is very clean. When I bought mine, it didn't cost much more than the plain Rock River.

Mine's an absolute delight.

He sells two-stage Geissele triggers, too; I've never tried one.

gunman42782
February 12, 2008, 05:30 AM
I, too have a RR 2 stage trigger and so far it has been great! It is unreal the difference between it and the stock trigger.

Swampy
February 13, 2008, 10:00 AM
Trouble with a Rock River AR trigger..... ????

Huh.... I sure know a lot of Master and High Master shooters who have been shooting the RR trigger for the last 5-6 years who'd be real surprized to know they have a bad trigger.

BTW... I have one too. Six years old. Perfect letoff. No problems.

Best,
Swampy

Garands forever

Bartholomew Roberts
February 13, 2008, 10:11 AM
As designed, it is theoretically possible for the roll pin holding the disconnector to the trigger on the RRA trigger to work loose from vibration because it is short enough to walk out. If this happens, it will bind the trigger completely. Some dealers replace this part with a slightly longer solid pin in order to address this issue. I do not think the problem is a common one; but it has happened.

The only other issue I remember is some of the first RRA two-stage triggers would become single stage triggers after a short period of use. I forget what the cause was; but RRA has corrected that for awhile now.

P-32
February 13, 2008, 10:30 AM
I had a WOP tuned RRA 2 stage quit at a match last year. It would work as it was supposed to when the charging handle was pulled but froze up on the second shot. I had a spare WOP tuned trigger with me as part of my get the rifle back in action kit. I e-mailed John and he said he would fix the trigger for 0 cost to me. I just have to get off my dead arse and send it to him as the shooting season is coming up. The trigger in question had 50-60 88 shot matches plus practice and dry fire on it. I still think the RRA 2 stage is the best trigger for the $.

SlamFire1
February 13, 2008, 11:40 AM
I suggest that you get John Holliger's tuned two-stage trigger from White Oak Armament; break is very clean. When I bought mine, it didn't cost much more than the plain Rock River.

+1. I have two of Holliger's triggers installed, and a couple of factory installed RRA's in RRA NM AR's. All work well, I do prefer the way Holliger sets the final release. He sets the trigger so the first stage takes 3.5 pounds of force then it takes about 1.0 to 1.5 pounds more pressure to get the second stage to release. This has the weird effect of "feeling" that you are using a 1 pound trigger.

For those old enough to remember, it used to be that the Milazzo-Krieger trigger was "the" match trigger for the AR. I remember the AMU and the USMC teams used these, but the MK trigger had a weakness, there was this set screw that would come loose. And it was extremely difficult to keep it in place.

I donít remember what the elite teams use now, I asked the USMC shooter I was squadded with last year, but forgot. They probably use the Geissele trigger. At at least $300.00 a pop, it is pricey.

Then the Compass Lake, Jewel, and Armalite two stage match triggers became available. As much as I like and respect Frank White of Compass Lake, his trigger has too many parts and requires a specialty lubricant. In time, it malfunctions. I find it humorous that Bushmaster copied the Compass Lake Trigger without using the precision machining and hardened parts that Frank uses in his shop.

Folks using the Jewel trigger started reporting enough troubles that the market walked away. The Armalite trigger has been an excellent design, I have one, went through one barrel with it, no malfunctions. It has to be filed to fit by someone who knows what they are doing, same as a untuned Rock River two stage.

As far as problems with the current crop of Armalite and Rock River triggers, you just donít hear much. First time I heard of any problems with a RRA was in this thread.

It is my considered opinion, having seen all the problems that folks had with single stage AR triggers, the current crop of two stage triggers are more reliable. Back in the bad old days, a single stage tuned to give a nice pull would in time always malfunction. The usual result was doubling because the trigger notch/sear relationship had worn.

Now if you are happy with a ten pound pull and ten yards of creep, maybe that single stage will last forever.

Swampy
February 13, 2008, 12:18 PM
First time I heard of any problems with a RRA was in this thread.

Ditto.....

Swampy

Garands forever

Walkalong
February 13, 2008, 03:56 PM
My brand new RRA with a two stage trigger does not have 2 different feeling spots as far as take up. It has consistent take up until you feel the resistence of the sear engagement, then it breaks clean with a little more pressure. This is my first one and I assumed that is how it is supposed to work. It is a nice trigger, by the way. Not as nice as the Jewel trigger on the Bushy I gave my nephew, but nice nonetheless.

jkingrph
February 13, 2008, 06:07 PM
my Garand has a two stage, and I installed Jewell two stages on my two Colt AR 15 types and would not go back.

ckay
February 13, 2008, 07:58 PM
I like my RRA. Great value.

ocabj
February 13, 2008, 08:05 PM
I don’t remember what the elite teams use now, I asked the USMC shooter I was squadded with last year, but forgot. They probably use the Geissele trigger. At at least $300.00 a pop, it is pricey.

The Geissele is fast becoming the go to trigger for serious HP shooters. I'm pretty sure the USMC armorers are dropping Geissele's into HP guns that they build.

I don't know what the USAMU uses, but I know at one USAMU shooter has a Krieger-Milazzo in his rifle (he told us when asked).

Oh, and I use a Geissele in my own rifle.

bogie
February 13, 2008, 08:53 PM
Buy the best, and cry once.

Arnold Jewell's triggers rawk.

Soybomb
February 13, 2008, 10:11 PM
I feel like my thread is drifting a little, I'm not really as concerned about the specific options available, just how the two stage triggers in general effect reset distance on the trigger and the ability for fast follow up shots ;)

Bartholomew Roberts
February 13, 2008, 11:07 PM
My splits with the RRA 2-stage and with the USGI single stage are about the same (0.19-0.21 sec); but the reset is a little funky on the RRA and I sometimes mess it up. I think that is really more of a training issue though. I am more used to the reset on the USGI trigger so the RRA just feels different.

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