[Hillman]

And here amoungst friends, I know I don't have to disclose my reasons. :D

Please forgive me if this is another dead horse waiting to be kicked.

I'm just starting my research. I don't even know if I want an AR or an AK. Heck, I don't even know the difference. I'll deal with that before I even start looking into manufacturers, or pre- or post-ban.

Does anyone have a good reference that describes the differences, suitability, etc? Web searches so far have been stuck in the 'mine-is-better-than-yours' camp.

And maybe it would be helpful if I told you why I want one, and what I plan on doing with it.
* I'd like to shoot it;
* Another tool in the home/family defense arsenal;
* Is deer hunting a possibility? (see, told you I was clueless. But since the anti's say you can't, I'm not taking their word for it).
* Oh - this shouldn't have a bearing on AR/AK, but I'd like one simply for the fact that some people say I shouldn't have one. I figure it's my right - and obligation - as a voting, law abiding American to own as many firearms as my conscience will allow.

Any and all help appreciated.

mhd

[P95Carry]

Hillman .... this'll probably stir up a hornet's nest between the two camps!! Let me say tho that budget will come into this methinks.

For price and almost idiotproof (no aspersions!) reliability ... the AK every time. I'd not hunt with either actually.! The ammo for AK clones is maybe the cheapest around ... and an SAR1 will I think prove to be a great and versatile member of your collection.

The AR will cost more .. no doubts ...... it may also be a tad more ''fussy'' but hey ..... get AK first and play ..... while saving for the AR!!:D

[hillbilly]

What P95Carry said.

Get the AK now (you can find MAK-90s around for as low as $350 sometimes) and shoot it while you save your pennies for the AR later.

Try out http://www.gunsamerica.com and look for AK clones. Be sure that you get one that takes double-stack magazines, if you can own such dangerous things in the state where you live.

hillbilly

[Atticus]

The AR15 would be my first choice. If you like that style of rifle, have the $, and want to hunt deer with it, you might consider the AR10.
There's nothing wrong with AK's, and they can be a lot of fun, but for the money I'd just as soon have an SKS. Neither the AR or AK is optimal for deer hunting (and possibly illegal in some states) but I suppose it could be done.

[DMK]

I bought two FAL kits. :D

Just built the first one with an 18" barrel and muzzle brake. I took it out to test fire a couple weeks ago. Man, it's 7.62x51, Loud, All Black, Evil, and just loads of Fun! :evil:

[benEzra]

I'd go with a SAR-1 (Romanian AK clone) for around $350 (your local price may vary). I just bought one last month and it's already my favorite rifle. If your state allows hunting with a detachable-magazine semiauto, you can get 5-round hunting magazine for it and the ballistics are similar to a .30-30 (Cor-Bon makes an excellent 150-gr load that would be good for deer). It's not a long-range cartridge, though--not powerful enough. The rifle is robust, "cool," great for plinking, and seems to top the scale as far as causing hissy fits among hoplophobic anti's. Magazines and ammunition are the least expensive of any EBR.

Although some would disagree, most people consider the .223/5.56mm too weak for reliably humane kills on deer. AR's are also twice as expensive and probably less tolerant of abuse. However, they tend to be more accurate out of the box and are plenty "cool." Ergonomics are also better than the AK series (the thumb safety and the left-side bolt release button are highly useful).

AR-10 or FAL would be great if you like big, heavy rifles that fire powerful cartridges. .308 gives you the ability to take larger game than deer. Downside is that these rifles are a little less handy due to their greater length and weight.

[Logistar]

Great advice so far. I just bought an AK (SAR-1) because:

I can afford it NOW.
Ammo is CHEAP.
It is a blast to shoot!
Simple to start with if you are new to semi-auto rifles.
- already have had enough comments about it to justify the purchase :D

I originally wanted (and still do want) an AR-15 but rather than wait to save up $1000 I am already enjoying the SAR and have begun saving for the AR again.

Just my opinion.

Logistar

- woman at range a week ago....

"Excuse me, sir... what kind of rifle is that?"
"It's an SAR-1... a variant of the AK-47."
"Well, it just looks... well.. EVIL...."

- Made my day! :D (she must have been new at the range.)

[Sunray]

"I want one! " is reason enough. Note: this is a reason not an excuse. However, be sure you can put every round into a 9" pie plate, off hand, at 100 yards before you even think about hunting deer with it. AK's are not known for great accuracy. Lots of punch, but they aren't normally accurate enough to hunt deer with. Much better for deer than any .223. Most places won't allow the use of a .223 for deer.

[BusMaster007]

You are about to step into the AR/AK zone...:what:

Confusion ahead.
Have fun and good luck on whatever you decide to get! :cool:

[hillbilly]

I wanted to add......

I have either owned in the past or currently own variants of the AK-47, the AR-15, and the FAL.

And FALs rock and roll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nothing like 20 rounds of 7.62X51 in semi-auto rapid fire on a big old chunk of sheet steel down range to get the arteries cleared out.

As a certain former Marine Gunny might say on a certain TV show..... OoooooooooooooooRAH! Especially if you've got a SUIT scope to go on your FAL.

But, maybe I'm just prejudiced?

hillbilly

[c_yeager]

Well you said you wanted an EEEEVIL black rifle. And there is nothing more evil looking than an AK. Besides that the ammo is cheap, the guns are cheap and, 30 rounders are dirt cheap.

[WVleo]

Hi, For a cheap,fun ,evil looking plinker you can't beat the akclones ! I got 1 for bump firing on M-I-L property here in WV ! Went to Gander Mt. and bought 1000 rds. for $95 OTD. Found a 75rd drum ,couple 40rd mags,couple 30rders . Hose it down or drop parts into the dunk tank then hang dry when your done ! But like every new toy ( no disrepect to the antis { sheep to the slaughter } ) other stuff has to be added as you go . Kvar stock to finish off the EBR effect ! Still saving up for the AR tho...................WVleo

[ACP]

I believe you'll find the AR to be more ergonomic (esp. the safety) and to have better sights and trigger right out of the box. There are also more aftermarket parts for them and styles (carbine, std., varmint, etc.) available.

A lot of the doubt about the AR come from two issues: caliber and reliability. For personal defense -- I mean REAL personal defense scenarios here, not the ones where you have to substitute yourself for an Army division against some Communist horde invading our shores -- the AR will work very well, as evidenced in various overseas countries, including Afghanistan and Iraq. Need a domestic example? The Washington, D.C. sniper shootings. How many of those victims laughed and ran away when they were hit with a .223 round? None.

Re: reliability. Do you plan on never, ever cleaning your weapon? That's irresponsible. With regular maintenance and care in magazine selection, the AR -- this is my opinion -- is just as relaible as the AK. I've fired full-auto M-16s, AKs, and MP-5s, and the only one that choked was the AK -- a pin walked out of the receiver, tying up the action and rendering the gun unusable.

Re: hunting, many states won't allow you to hunt deer with a .223.

[WhoKnowsWho]

I bought my AR-15 first because I built it and it was a tempting and fun thing to do. And it seemed like SARs were never going to run out... :(

I still like my AR a lot, it feels and looks more modern to me, like a good partner with my Glock!

[Hillman]

I really wasn't expecting this kind of flurry of responses! Thanks to all.

Just a couple of things ... didn't really plan on hunting with it ... question was more out of curiosity. And no, this will not lay in pasture in the safe. I regularly exercise and clean all of my firearms.

Using a different search engine, I bumped into this link which I'm having great fun browsing: http://www.impactsites2000.com/site3/class3_0.htm

Yep. Price will be a major factor. Looks like an AK while I save for the AR. May as well celebrate diversity.

[BDM]

I love ARs and have 2 both bushmaster and even though its my "go to"rifle I own an AK to its like good and evil,cant have one without the other.I dont know wich is more reliable none I own have ever failed me no matter what I feed em and how much I shoot I maintain both types well and they always function fine,my AK is a chineese mak90 10 years old.

[kudu]

Try this sight.

http://www.ar15.com/

[rick_reno]

Excellent idea. Buy a Browning BAR in 30-06 and a can of Krylon paint in black. You'll have a evil black rifle that will work for hunting. I have friends who have painted SKS rifles and use them for hunting (deer/pigs) - it'd be a good choice if $'s are tight. I see them at gun shows for $150-$200 these days, and some come with scopes.

[0007]

Only one?? :D

[pmbiker]

I'll stir the ????? a little more.

How about an Armalite ar-180b.

I already own one milled and one stamped ak and a bushmaster v-match 16". The ak's are stone reliable and hard hitting, but the ergonomics leave a little to be desired. The ar is a great rifle, reliable and accurate but a little pricey to purchase and feed with quality ammo. And they tend to get VERY dirty after extended use which causes malf's.

I got a chance to shoot a 180b a few weeks back and I had to have one.
It has all the benefits of the ar-15 without the direct gas blowback into the reciever, which keeps it as clean as an ak after firing. Takes ar mags and the price is more than most ak's but less than a quality ar.

And it's all BLACK :evil:

later,
Phil

[XxAR10xX]

Here's what I think -

If you could only get one gun for the time being, it really depends on how much money you have.

The AK is cheaper (ranging from $300-700), ammo is a lot cheaper (1k for $80, or 8 cents a round), highcaps are super cheap too ($10 or less)! AK's are known to be some of the most reliable guns out there. Although the design is not the prettiest, it goes bang when you need it too, and requires little special care. It eats almost any ammo, and usually is not fussy. The only downsides are that AKs aren't usually super accurate (though my Bulgarian does MOA steel barrel out at 300yrds), and the platform can be difficult to mount optics on. Some have that side plate attachment for you to mount scopes, dots, etc on. (you can also drill and attach the plate yourself too)

The AR is more expensive (ranging from $600-$2000+), ammo is a bit more expensive (1k of Win goes for $175ish), and highcaps cost a little more. Probably the best thing about ARs is the versatility. You can pop on all sorts of uppers depending on what you want, swap out this, swap out that, and there is a HUGE aftermarket. The platform is great for any optic that you desire, provided you get the A3/A4 tops. I've always heard that ARs jam if dirty, but I don't know since I'm a clean freak. My bushmaster has maybe 1 FTE (early in the game) in over 1200 rounds so far. My Bushmaster has been very good to me and my friend, RRA, Armalite are great too.

In regards to the criteria you are looking for
* I'd like to shoot it - Both are so fun to shoot, and for different reasons
* Another tool in the home/family defense arsenal - I think both would do fine, but if I had to grab one in the dark it's the AK
* Is deer hunting a possibility? - Well I don't know, I don't hunt. But if I did I would probably not take the AK, unless I was trying to hit a deer from 50 yrds away. The AR is more of a tackdriver with a lot less recoil.

Here's how I bought em - AR15 -> AK -> AR10 -> Custom AR15 -> FAL
Once you start you will have more than one. Oh, and just to plug the FAL, I'm starting on my first kit, and these things are cool! The FAL is probably the most robust out of any EBRs out there IMHO. Mags are cheap and kits are cheap (although they are drying up).

[justashooter]

i have a bushmaster A3 20", a SAR 1, and a slew of FAL, as well as a SS mini folder and lots of other cool stuff, but i have to say, that for the buck, the romanian SAR 1 is the most fun going. it will bump a 30 rd mag in 3 seconds, or hit a tin can at 100 yards every time.

the FAL are cool, and the DSA is the cadillac of the bunch, but i shoot my kit guns more than it. the neatest thing about building is that you can have exactly what you want. my favorite FAL is an inch "looks like a heavy barrel" that i haven't even finished yet.

buy the SAR 1 and a case of ammo, and don't look back. just buy another when you get good with the first.

[Tamara]

* Is deer hunting a possibility? (see, told you I was clueless. But since the anti's say you can't, I'm not taking their word for it).

In most states (and if you're limiting your choices to AR or AK) this kinda narrows things down a bit. A 7.62x39 AK with a side-rail scope mount would fill the bill.

[Dave R]

Just to add fuel to the fire...

Sure, you can hunt with an AR! Its very popular among varmit hunters. Prarie dogs, coyotes, rock chucks, etc. And in many states, there are no seasons on those critters. You'd need a scope to hunt varmits, though.

As others have said, .223 is questionable for deer and illegal for deer in many states.

Now, a .308 EBR*--FAL, CETME, AR-10, M1A, can be used for deer in many states. You'd need a 5-round magazine most places.

Could also be used for hogs...

Anybody hunted hogs with an AK?

*Acronym for Evil Black Rifle

[yzguy]

a lot of AK info here:
http://linx310.nothingbutguns.com/


another message board for romainian AK's (the SAR-1 is one)
http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=37


I love my SAR-1 (but I also have a bolt action .308 for longer accacuracy if desired). I was thinking about getting an AR for both uses (accuacy and rapid fire rifle fun) but ened up with the SAR and a Savage .308, and am very happy with them. (Not to say that I won't end up with an AR in the future :) )

[Kharn]

For a low-cost ($350ish) rifle, I'd suggest either an SAR1 or a Cetme. With either one, it would be wise to inspect it by hand prior to purchase due to the angry beavers that Century Arms employs as gunsmiths.

Kharn

[patentmike]

I'm doing a bit of research and leaning toward the RRA LAR10, myself. Anyone have any experience with one yet?

[Roadkill]

I shoot my ARs. I use my AKs.

rk

[MJ]

I have seen both the AK and AR on the sharp end of the stick. So it shades my view a bit.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/2ca9be0a.jpg

[12 Volt Man]

wow, a resurrected thread from 2003.

[SnakeEater]

I'm no fan of either one but the AR is a much better platform if you can afford it.

[patentmike]

Wow, you're right. I did a search, and since the days were close overlooked the year. The RRA LAR10 hadn't been invented yet.

[blackhawk2000]

In MI any centerfire round is legal for deer.

WASR10's can be had on sale at Dunhams for around $300+ depending on when they go on sale. Check for a canted front sight. The magwell may require a bit of dremeling. Mine did. Mine also does not feed Wolf HP.

The AR will probably be a bit fussier, and the bolt is pretty much going to break on you sooner or later. However mine eats everything I feed it. It has only FTE'd twice. Both times at a class, when it was really hot, and dry. I also never clean it, to see just how true or untrue the relability rumors are. So far for me they are false. I do not have hopes for my bolt going forever though. The AR is more modifiable. They are usually more expensive, depending on what you get of either.

Why don't you come out to the match we are having this weekend, and hang out, and see what everyone is shooting? www.actshooters.com

[Omnivore]

Good points all around. Get both. Definitely. They're both great in their own ways, and you'll want the first-hand experience with both of them.

[Evil Monkey]

I live in MI. Went to Midwest Ordnance about a week ago. Saw some AK's going for $300! But what I'm really looking for is a WASR 3 5.56mm.:evil:

Oh and they had a pre-ban Steyr AUG!!!:what: I swear when I saw that, I had an out of body experience. lol:D