Whats the "Best" 7.62x39 semi auto rifle besides the AK47?


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Click Click Boom
February 12, 2008, 09:26 PM
I was wondering what the general opinion is on the best 7.62x39 semi auto rifle besides the Ak that is available in the US both current and out of production?

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R.W.Dale
February 12, 2008, 09:45 PM
An AR15 variant would be top of my list except for the magazine issue. So I'm gonna say SKS since they're as or more accurate than a Mini 30 at a third the price.

Desert Scorpion
February 12, 2008, 09:46 PM
Your best bet is to pre order the new Bushmaster ACR which will take AK-47 magazines and AR-15 magazines via a simple conversion, you get both the AR-15 and AK-47 features in one gun. Wait a few months and get one.:rolleyes:

RNB65
February 12, 2008, 09:46 PM
SKS of course.

jlpskydive
February 12, 2008, 09:53 PM
SKS of the M or D variety:):)

Ohen Cepel
February 12, 2008, 09:58 PM
I also vote for the SKS, it's great for what it is.

Once you get into the AR mods it's a lot of money for little gain in my mind an rather expensive magazines.

Click Click Boom
February 12, 2008, 10:09 PM
I was thinking CZ VZ-58. It's not an AK47 but has all of the reliability and a little more acurate.

RockyMtnTactical
February 12, 2008, 10:11 PM
I really like the SKS.

MaterDei
February 12, 2008, 10:13 PM
SKSs rock!!!

tpaw
February 12, 2008, 10:14 PM
SKS........;)

takhtakaal
February 12, 2008, 10:21 PM
Vz-58.

High Planes Drifter
February 12, 2008, 10:32 PM
SKS.

takhtakaal
February 12, 2008, 10:48 PM
Ali!

nalioth
February 12, 2008, 10:49 PM
Vz-58 is hands down the winner, in my book.

Massive amounts of surplus parts available, parts kits are inexpensive (more spare parts), it has a milled receiver and weighs less than a stamped AKM.

The ACR is vapor at this time. I think it'd be really really cool to have one rifle and be able to use 3 or 4 different calibers with it, but let's see if they get a rifle in one caliber out the door first.

takhtakaal
February 12, 2008, 10:57 PM
*bloop* *bloop* *bloop*

"Sorry, nalioth. The correct response was 'Frazier.'

You retain control of the board."

;)

HorseSoldier
February 12, 2008, 11:04 PM
The vz.58 a the time being (assuming one doesn't count things like the Valmets and other higher quality AK clones as seperate weapons). Masada/ACR and 7.62x39 SCAR may change that.

strat81
February 12, 2008, 11:13 PM
Vz-58

Click Click Boom
February 12, 2008, 11:17 PM
Daewoo DR300 and the RA XCR in "2 weeks"

I really like the VZ-58 Light, handles well and there are even some modern folding stocks, Grips and quad rails for it. I really don't see how this gun could fail to eject a round. Dont we have three companies making them as well?

CZ (is having them made for them)
OOW
CAI

Any others?

azhunter12
February 13, 2008, 12:13 AM
SKS or VZ58

Anteater1717
February 13, 2008, 12:15 AM
Russian SKS-45

doneking
February 13, 2008, 01:02 AM
My vote would be for the SKS.

mgregg85
February 13, 2008, 01:10 AM
I love shooting my mini-30.

nalioth
February 13, 2008, 01:20 AM
Dont we have three companies making them as well?

CZ (is having them made for them)
OOW
CAI

Century and CZ don't make them. They are imported and sold by Century in slimline magazine configuration. CZ has several companies importing theirs (or so it seems) in a slimline configuration and opened up here and made 922r compliant.

OOW doesn't make anything but the receiver and compliance parts for their business. They use parts kits to build their rifles.

dscottw88
February 13, 2008, 01:26 AM
Saiga out of the question? Than go with the SKS.

rangerruck
February 13, 2008, 03:47 AM
saiga for me...

PP
February 13, 2008, 05:36 AM
Hi Guys!

My choice would be czechoslovak vz.58. I am from Slovakia, it is easy to buy it here in semi-auto version. Our military uses it as well (full-auto version). I read some posts saying that it is less accurate than AK-47. That's not true. Vz.58 has totally different inner parts than AK. It was producent also for export - some countries use them in their armies (India for example), but in far less numbers than the AK. The AK is more bulky and heavier. Vz.58 is more accurate. The only disadvantage of vz.58 is that it is harder to controll it in longer bursts because of less weight. It was produced in late 50's and the buttstock and grips are made from realy ugly looking wood-like material. But if you change this parts you can get nice looking rifle from it. To be honest, if I should choose one rifle to take with me in a conflict I would still take the AK because of the spare parts.

Take a look at pics of my beauty...

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/9064/snmka015zy8.th.jpg (http://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snmka015zy8.jpg)

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7351/snmka017tx0.th.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snmka017tx0.jpg)

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/3571/snmka020mz8.th.jpg (http://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snmka020mz8.jpg)

magiccarpetrides
February 13, 2008, 10:56 AM
Sweet...im gonna try to get one from the CZ group buy with tactical stock. Failing that probably gonna go Saiga...one in .308 with 22" barrel and one in 7.62 x 39 with 16" Anyone on here have experience with the Saiga...I hear nothing but good things.

magiccarpetrides
February 13, 2008, 10:57 AM
....

okiewita40
February 13, 2008, 11:25 AM
about the only drawback i have heard about the saiga is a lack of parts. but supposedly a lot of ak-74 parts are suppoed to fit. I know i am looking at getting on in 7.62x39.

ny32182
February 13, 2008, 01:42 PM
As soon as the XCR conversion becomes non-vaporware, which should be well before mid year... that will be it.

MD_Willington
February 13, 2008, 02:04 PM
...Lack of parts for a Saiga...?

What parts do you need?

nalioth
February 13, 2008, 02:19 PM
The Saiga IS a Kalashnikov, folks.

kd7nqb
February 13, 2008, 02:26 PM
big fan of the SKS particularly the D since it takes AK mags.

Scott7891
February 13, 2008, 08:57 PM
Bought my Vz-58 cannot wait to try it out. Might as well get it people will think it's an AK-47. That is what everyone I show think it is until I tell them otherwise.

PP
February 14, 2008, 05:09 PM
Yes, only few people know that the gas system and internal parts are totaly different. In a fact Czechoslovakia was the only state of the former Warsaw pact which didn't adopt a copy of Kalashnikov in the Army. I love my vz.58. I would like to buy an EOTech for it as well. Anybody can give me advice where can I find one for a decent price?

Max Velocity
February 14, 2008, 05:25 PM
http://www.sr-25.com/AR47Greenlarge.jpg

MudPuppy
February 14, 2008, 05:51 PM
I'd say vz.58 as well. (Galil maybe?)

Hey PP, don't those handguards get awful hot with long strings? Oh, I've seen armorer's kits that have beautiful wood (real wood) replacement stocks and forearms.

LeibstandarteAdH
February 14, 2008, 05:55 PM
Vz-58 by far.

I think 7.62x39 galil's fall under being an AK. Saiga definately does. Though not an "AK47" as the OP put it.

I love shooting my mini-30.

I got a kick out of that one.

PP, thats a nice Vz 58, too bad the furnature like yours costs a million bucks. And here in america, Vz 58 parts are about half the price of AK-47 parts so having replacement parts availible isn't really an issue. If i was in africa or something? maybe. honestly i just don't see anything on my Vz 58 breaking anyime soon.

buck00
February 14, 2008, 06:16 PM
Is it just me, or is an AR-15 in 7.62 x 39 kind of odd? It sort of defeats the point.

An AK in .223 is fine, but a shiny black AR-15 shooting 7.62 x 39 is like mowing a lawn after dark or kissing your cousin, it doesn't feel right. :barf:

MudPuppy
February 14, 2008, 07:24 PM
Yeah, I feel similar - but admit thats just preference. For the folks that like the platform, its sure nice to see the option.

Anyone doing an AR in 5.45? :D

LeibstandarteAdH
February 14, 2008, 07:47 PM
Anyone doing an AR in 5.45?

I have seen uppers on Gunbroker every so often, you use the same magazine and all.

collateral
February 14, 2008, 10:06 PM
VZ-58

It takes 30 round magazines
The bolt locks open on empty
you can reload the mags with stripper clips, without even taking them out of the gun!
the shoot a little bit better than your average AK
the reciever is milled

The only real downside I can think of is the cost.

rocinante
February 14, 2008, 11:15 PM
I have a converted saiga but I would love to have a vz58. Everything I read is positive and it is design wise more of a linear descendant of the original stormgewehr 44. For a stupid reason I am a 1958 model too so I like that :)

strangelittleman
February 15, 2008, 12:45 PM
Well, since you said both current and out of production, I'd say the Valmet M76...I know some of you will say it's a Kalashnikov, but the comparison is like putting a Cadilac(Valmet) against a Chevy Cavalier(run of the mill AK).
As far as current production, I'll go with the VZ58.

3pairs12
February 15, 2008, 12:47 PM
+1 Ar 15 variant

MD_Willington
February 15, 2008, 01:26 PM
5.45 AR upper is the Alexander Arms "Genghis" upper...

Bill Alexander at SHOT said they will bring them back into production....

Iacabo
February 15, 2008, 11:01 PM
Iwould say the egyptian rasheed although I have no experience with one. they are just neat. http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl28-e.htm

Click Click Boom
February 16, 2008, 01:57 AM
That Egyptian rifle loos like a cross between a VZ 58 and a SKS.

Does anyone make a conversion for the SKS to take AK mags?

chauncey
February 16, 2008, 09:37 PM
how about an e-tool? it's more accurate at 50 yards, and possibly just as lethal!

Ignition Override
February 17, 2008, 01:34 AM
1) Is the Ruger Mini 30 often found with a (replacement?) wooden stock and has normal iron sights? Some of us like the classic wooden looks. The Ruger website states that it can only be fitted with a scope, unlike with the -14

My only gun besides a single-shot .22 is an M-1 carbine (since October).

2) What are the drawbacks of a Ruger Mini 30 compared to the Mini 14 (.223), in terms of reliability, durability (cleaned often) and ammo prices for American-made 7.62X 39? Does overheating cause any real problems, other than accuracy?

3) Are reliable magazines which hold 20-30 rounds for the Mini 30 always very expensive?
If so, what is Ruger's problem?

PP
February 28, 2008, 04:39 PM
Hi Guys!

I would try to answer the questions:
1. No the handguard, foregrip and other parts don't melt down. See it for yourself:

http://www.zbrojovkapraga.cz/

I know it will be hard for u cause u don't understand the language - just search for the word "video" and click the links beneath it.

Ladies and gentleman, I present you the vz.58:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSLV9rd53vw

PP
February 28, 2008, 04:48 PM
Complet set was about 450 USD without the flashlight.

I love the feature of filling magazines with stripes :D

The egyptian rifle is actualy CZ 52/57 semi-auto rifle. A predecesor of vz.58.

My vz.58 was about 500 USD. On other hand I am allways jelaous when I see the offer of FN FALs, ARs, Minis and G3s in US. In Slovakia they are twice that much. The cheapest FN FAL I can get here is the Stg 88 (Austrian) and it is 2000 USD.

spiroxlii
February 28, 2008, 05:05 PM
SKS.

Saiga would be ok, I guess... you know... if you don't like cosmoline.

USMCDK
February 28, 2008, 06:49 PM
wow I haven't seen anyone type in the Dragunov, the H&K PSG-1 What about a reminton .308 or even winchester for that matter??? These are all really nice SEMI-auto (7.62) rifles, or should I say in my opinion...

Am I just outta the loop here or just plain crazy to suggest these weapon systems??? I know that some of them are really dang pricey and or just unaffordable to the common joe, but hey you asked what is the best and I have given my opinion

H2O MAN
February 28, 2008, 06:53 PM
When it comes to shooting 7.62x39, I'll stick with the AK47 type rifle.

USMCDK
February 28, 2008, 06:59 PM
BTW I noticed some one say the wanted a rifle in 7.62x39 and another in .308. If I stand correct... .308cal is the sam thing as 7.62mm

.308 is in inches (Standard measurement) and 7.62mm (Metric system measurement) but none the less they are the same darn thing, just like a

.38cal is a 9mm or 9x19mm

Sorry I had to get that off my chest and please I am not trying to harrass (hench why I didn't post your name) but more or less trying to educate you on the difference, or should I say similarity.

Thank you

Bazooka Joe71
February 28, 2008, 07:09 PM
Well if you aren't talking about a pre-converted Saiga and since I like my AR's in .223 and .308, I'd go with an SKS.

3pairs12
February 28, 2008, 07:14 PM
Yep AR variant for me then SKS.

Uncle Chan
February 28, 2008, 11:47 PM
SKS would be my choice. I love mine.

Geronimo45
February 29, 2008, 12:04 AM
If I stand correct... .308cal is the sam thing as 7.62mm
.308 is 7.62x51, much longer (and more powerful) than 7.62x39. Diameter is not the same, IIRC - 7.62x39 is slightly wider than .308 (.311?).
Caliber is an approximation. Metric data is also an approximation. I won't try and say why the numbers are often (always?) off on popular calibers. It boggles the mind.

Bazooka Joe71
February 29, 2008, 12:08 AM
Caliber is an approximation. Metric data is also an approximation. I won't try and say why the numbers are often (always?) off on popular calibers. It boggles the mind.

That's why everytime I think about 7.62's my head starts spinning.:p

I have I have 4 different 7.62's and to think there are more just gives me a headache...Don't get me started on the diameters either.:eek:

spiroxlii
February 29, 2008, 01:45 AM
Usually when people just say ".308" they're talking about .308 Winchester, which corresponds to 7.62x51 (7.62 NATO), not 7.62x39 (7.62 Soviet), which is the round used in AK47 variants and the SKS. To confuse matters further, there's also 7.62x38R (7.62 Nagant), which was used in the M1895 Nagant Revolver and 7.62x54R (7.62 Russian), which is used in the various Mosin-Nagant rifles, Dragunovs, the SVT-40, and various other rifles and machine guns and is not to be confused with the aforementioned 7.62 Soviet

spiroxlii
February 29, 2008, 01:54 AM
Oh, I forgot to mention the following...

7.62x25 Tokarev, which is used in handguns like the TT-33 and the CZ-52, 7.62x63 (.30-06 Springfield), which is used in rifles like the M1 Garand, M1903 Springfield, M1917 Enfield, M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle, and various other rifles and machine guns, and 7.62x33 (.30 Carbine), which is used in the M1 Carbine.

sarduy
February 29, 2008, 02:23 AM
go with the SKS or Saiga.

guntotinguy
February 29, 2008, 04:15 AM
I go with my converted Saiga...just my personal choice and will be picking up an SKS soon.

Click Click Boom
February 29, 2008, 04:23 AM
So, its looking like...

1. SKS
2. CZ Vz58
3. Ruger Mini 30

Ian
February 29, 2008, 12:12 PM
The SKS is certainly cheaper and more common than the VZ58, but I don't think there's any doubt that the VZ is definitely the better rifle.

diesel83
February 29, 2008, 12:40 PM
Having owned SKS's and Mini-30's, I'd say the SKS for reliability and robustness. The Mini-30 for form factor and lower weight. My Norinco SKS was slightly more accurate than the Mini-30, but that may be due to barrel twist (1:9 prox SKS vs. 1:10 Mini-30) and crummy chicom surplus ammo I used. Chromium barrel of the SKS is nice. When you look at price in the mix, it's SKS all the way, especially after considering the cost of magazines with more than a 5 shot capacity.

Funderb
February 29, 2008, 12:50 PM
uh. SKS. cmon.

Click Click Boom
February 29, 2008, 01:39 PM
I find it funny that people consider cost/price so much. On one of these "Whats best/better" threads. I really dont think price has much to do with what gun is a more acurate/reliable/ect....

Cost is what you consider after you have decied whats the "best".

I ask myself, Whats the "best I can afford" I would never buy the cheaper gun just because it was cheaper.

diesel83
February 29, 2008, 01:54 PM
Well, Click Click Boom, when you statistically factor what's best, you put a weighting on several factors. With guns these factors include: Accuracy, performance, quality, availability of weapon, availability of parts, cost basis for ammunition and yes price to come up with the determining factor of value. Gun manufacturers fall into the SIC category of durable goods, just like lawn mowers. Some people weight the decision differently based on the intent for the purchase. If you shoot a lot, you want to lower your total cost of ownership. If you hunt you want a higher assurance of a hit. If you need home defense, reliability is the major factor.

mnw42
February 29, 2008, 04:17 PM
I love my Yugo 59/66 SKS!

XD-40 Shooter
February 29, 2008, 05:33 PM
Ditto, Yugo 59/66 SKS rocks.:D Show me a better semi-auto rifle for $150.:neener:

rockinrussky
February 29, 2008, 07:40 PM
Unfortunately I haven't seen any SKS rifles for $150 in a while. If you know of any let me know ;)

XD-40 Shooter
February 29, 2008, 10:25 PM
I bought my SKS July of '06, for $150.:neener: Those prices are long gone, sure glad I got mine, I love it!:D

woad_yurt
March 1, 2008, 09:48 PM
Chinese SKS. And then all of the other SKSs.

jrfoxx
March 1, 2008, 10:10 PM
SKS of the M or D variety
I' say that would be hard to beat in the reliability and ruggedness departments.Only thing they really lack is the better accuracy of modern bolt guns or AR types.Other than accuracy though, (and an sks is certainly ood enough for the majority of uses still anyway), I'd call them a winner.I really like my Norinco SKS-m.The basard love child of mr.'s simonov and kalishnakov....:D

trinydex
March 2, 2008, 12:46 AM
robinson arms xcr

Click Click Boom
April 9, 2008, 11:33 PM
Robinson Arms has not shipped the 7.62x39 XCR yet....

LeibstandarteAdH
April 9, 2008, 11:49 PM
The Vz. 58 of coarse!

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:o8wqOt4WFFcJ:http://www.marstar.ca/gf-VZ-58/images/VZ-58S-800px.jpg


Whats the "Best" 7.62x39 semi auto rifle besides the AK47?

I love shooting my mini-30.

That's a joke right? :p

kennedy
April 10, 2008, 12:09 AM
rasheed

DeerSlayer7600
April 10, 2008, 12:13 AM
I vote SKS.

riflenut
April 10, 2008, 12:50 AM
ive got two a mini 30 and chinese sks in this round both are fun to shoot, and no jam ups.

Click Click Boom
April 10, 2008, 12:57 AM
It looks like the CZ VZ58s are getting more popular. The going price has jumped since the CZ was released. The VZ58s were selling for $650-$700 before and now I see them from $780-$850 range. Whats the cause of this price increase?


Do the CZ VZ58s digest the WOLF steel cased ammo as well as a SKS or AK47?

nalioth
April 10, 2008, 01:15 AM
Do the CZ VZ58s digest the WOLF steel cased ammo as well as a SKS or AK47? They should, they were designed to use it.

quitebob
April 16, 2008, 05:10 PM
svt, svd of course. But with regulation .........oh well

col_tapiocca
April 16, 2008, 05:49 PM
Finnish AK-Clone named Valmet.
Here's a pic:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/RK_62_76.jpg/800px-RK_62_76.jpg

FEG
April 16, 2008, 05:53 PM
vz-58.

The only thing I have shot that even came close was a Tula SKS accurized by a gunsmith.

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee109/Doc_Steve/vz-58Sideview.jpg

Ain't she purty?

Average Joe
April 16, 2008, 08:39 PM
An SKS

saskcop
June 21, 2010, 06:45 PM
vz58/CZ858 for certain. I have mine decked out with NEA aftermarket stuff and a red dot that cowitnesses. Accurate even with Wolf. Reliable as anything I have used. I am looking to buy another.

FX
August 24, 2010, 04:47 AM
VZ58 and VZ52/57

Opoche
August 24, 2010, 02:11 PM
I would say VZ58.
Mine has been great. I am dying to get my hands on a Rasheed though, I hear the accuracy is great. I have it's big brother the Hakim and that thing is brilliant.

MTMilitiaman
August 24, 2010, 02:11 PM
For a combat or defensive arm, I'd probably throw my vote in for the VZ-58.

However, the SKS as a truck/ranch rifle is still unbeaten.

I'd like the RA XCR version better if it weren't reliant on what I understand to be AR mags of sketchy reliability. ARs are out for the same reason, and because there are no piston ARs in that caliber that I am aware of.

The new HK roller lock in 7.62x39 that JLD just came out with was initially intriguing for the first two seconds. Then I realized it was almost 9 pounds...

And speaking of overweight, I've kind of lost all interest in the hefty, over-priced and hyped Bushmaster rifle.

A wood stocked rifle with a full length barrel and a milled steel receiver manufactured 50 years ago is one thing at 8.5+ pounds, and acceptable at $150. A supposedly ultra-modern space-age plastic and alloy carbine at 8.5 pounds is not acceptable--esp at an asking price of over $2500. ACR? You guys realize the Russians dropped the milled version of the AK because it cost too much to produce and weighed about the same as the ACR, right? And that the FN 17S/SCAR-H gives you REAL 7.62mm firepower from the same size package, right? So does a POF308, and I suppose any number of carbine AR-10s, FALs, and M1As--all supposedly using obsolete technology. Sorry, tangent...don't understand the ACR hype...

Sam1911
August 24, 2010, 02:40 PM
Two year old thread. The OP has probably got his answer by now.

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