Who makes the best AR-15 on the market


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Darthbauer
February 13, 2008, 04:48 PM
Im looking to get another AR... or two and just wondering who makes the best one. I hear alot of people say Colt is the only one that makes a true mil-spec rifle but I have shot one and didnt like it and have heard other people that didnt like or had problems with Colt. I hear alot of good and bad things about many of the companies out there. Im looking to hear about companies like Noveske, LWRC, and LMT. So far from what ive gathered from looking around on THR is that those are some of the best out there.

Also interested in gas piston systems. Wondering who makes the best system out there rather it be LWRC, Bushmaster, or Primary Weapons Systems.

Id go out and buy one of all of these and try them out for myself but god knows I dont have the money for that. Thats why im asking you fine folks here. Thank you for any help you all can give me on this matter.

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J Lambs
February 13, 2008, 04:53 PM
For me, Bushmaster is the best value. You can pick up the Optics ready for around $900 at some places. I love mine, but at first, it was picky about the ammo. No Wolf steel for the first 200 rds.

Bazooka Joe71
February 13, 2008, 04:57 PM
A quick search would get ya squared away.;)

I believe you will find that the consensus is draw a name out of a hat and you'll be fine.

ckay
February 13, 2008, 05:01 PM
LMT IMO. You can get great rifles for less though. What's the purpose of this rifle? I see $3k rigs that miss paper at 100 yards on shooter error. Because you have the best weapon money can buy doesn't mean you'll shoot tight.

Darthbauer
February 13, 2008, 05:11 PM
What's the purpose of this rifle?


Target shooting at the range, HD, zombie killing when the world goes to hell...

J Lambs
February 13, 2008, 05:21 PM
Then you need a shotgun

http://www.ex-robot.com/archives/design/000015.html

hso
February 13, 2008, 05:22 PM
Target shooting at the range, HD,

While not completely mutually exclusive requirements, they do conflict heavily.

Consider that a target AR, match rifle, may have a long heavy match barrel with a twist tuned to heavy (90+ grain) match ammo, gnat's breath trigger, and 12 pounds of lead in the fixed stock and fore end. A big heavy unwieldy beast that isn't suited to action shooting but will happily make sub moa holes at a thousand yards.

OTOH, take a solid SD AR with a 16" barrel that will accurately run 55 gr or 65 gr .223s, rail fore end, crisp defensive trigger (horse fly's breath), collapsible stock, BUIS and ML4 Aimpoint. You sure won't get 1000 yard sub moa groups out of it, but you can run with it and turn and drop in the mud and it will shoot.

So, whatcha want it to do?

In my neck of the woods I'd have Predator Custom Shop put one together for me.

KBintheSLC
February 13, 2008, 05:26 PM
I don't think there is such a thing as the best AR anymore. The best AR is most likely a Frankengun that was put together in someones basement. Colt was at the top of the heap for a long time. Nowadays, most companies like RRA, Bushmaster, DPMS, etc... all get their parts from 1 or 2 manufacturers. They don't actually manufacture anything themselves. I would say that they are all pretty much the same.

RockyMtnTactical
February 13, 2008, 05:30 PM
Noveske and LMT make the best ones.

Stag for the best value.

Darthbauer
February 13, 2008, 05:49 PM
While not completely mutually exclusive requirements, they do conflict heavily.

Consider that a target AR, match rifle, may have a long heavy match barrel with a twist tuned to heavy (90+ grain) match ammo, gnat's breath trigger, and 12 pounds of lead in the fixed stock and fore end. A big heavy unwieldy beast that isn't suited to action shooting but will happily make sub moa holes at a thousand yards.

OTOH, take a solid SD AR with a 16" barrel that will accurately run 55 gr or 65 gr .223s, rail fore end, crisp defensive trigger (horse fly's breath), collapsible stock, BUIS and ML4 Aimpoint. You sure won't get 1000 yard sub moa groups out of it, but you can run with it and turn and drop in the mud and it will shoot.

So, whatcha want it to do?

I already have a carbine RRA with the heavy barrel and an ARMS SIR rail system on it. I kinda want to get atleat two more, one 20inch in 6.8spc for target shooting and then a super lite 16inch more for HD. Ive been looking at the Bushmaster Carbon 15 for the lite one but havnt really been able to get any info out of people that have one on if they are any good or not. (still not to keen on the no dust cover thing).

strat81
February 13, 2008, 05:55 PM
Rocky beat me to it, although I'd add Colt LE to the best category too.

A Stag Model 2 or 3 would fill your HD and plinking roles quite well while the Model 6 would be a good target gun. For a 20" 6.8SPC, I'd look at CMMG.

H2O MAN
February 13, 2008, 06:06 PM
I did a bunch of research and decided that the Colt LE 6920 (http://www.colt.com/law/lecarbine.asp) was the best rifle for my needs.

Gary G23
February 13, 2008, 06:08 PM
Noveske

BozemanMT
February 13, 2008, 06:09 PM
Get one custom built the way you want.
MSTN did a couple for me that are flat amazing.
JP does a similar thing.

otherwise, all reasonably equal.

Kharn
February 13, 2008, 06:12 PM
IIRC, LMT is the current preferred manufacturer with the HS/LD guys.
But best value would probably be Bushmaster or RRA.

Kharn

ID_shooting
February 13, 2008, 06:24 PM
H20, what is the price tag on the colt?

I can tell not difference in that and my BM patrolman carbine.

Just currious

CWL
February 13, 2008, 06:26 PM
Um, you are in CA.

Unless you are LEO, the only ones you can get will be the lesser brands which are getting into CA (legally) under the radar.

ugaarguy
February 13, 2008, 06:34 PM
H20, what is the price tag on the colt?

I can tell not difference in that and my BM patrolman carbine.

Just currious
For those interested in what sets Noveske, Colt LE, LMT, and Sabre (and CMMG on some models) above the rest here's an image of a chart posted over on ar15.com.
72873

W.E.G.
February 13, 2008, 06:39 PM
Thanks for thinking of this.

I was just meaning to ask this too!

ScottG1911
February 13, 2008, 06:46 PM
I love my Bushmaster. If you want a Mil-spec rifle go for LMT. Colt has very very bad costumer service, should anything go wrong with your rifle. Plus LMT is cheaper than a colt. Bravo Company sells LMT check'em out

glockman19
February 13, 2008, 07:01 PM
Stag for the best value.
+1

Being in CA you can't get a Colt, Armilite, Bushmaster any other "named" lower.

Stag's parent co makes most of the parts for other companies. Great Customer Service, Warranty.

Soybomb
February 13, 2008, 07:10 PM
I'd buy a LMT, colt, or noveske if you made me buy a premade rifle. That doesn't mean you can't do just as well putting your own together.

ckay
February 13, 2008, 07:56 PM
That chart means nothing to anyone and shouldn't, unless you are in the sandbox or the like.

IIRC, LMT is the current preferred manufacturer with the HS/LD guys.
But best value would probably be Bushmaster or RRA.

Kharn
I think RRA is the best value out there.

To the OP, have you thought about building one yourself? As mentioned above, MSTN builds nice rigs.

556A2
February 13, 2008, 07:58 PM
Colt & LMT

Gunther
February 13, 2008, 08:51 PM
Colt

MMcfpd
February 13, 2008, 09:05 PM
As you can see by now, it depends who you ask. On the upside, it appears that almost everyone likes what they've got.

I've got several and, cost notwithstanding, if I had to grab just one for the duration I'd take a Colt. OTOH, I could probably make do with a CMMG or a Bushmaster.

And while there are certain marks about whose products you regularly see gripes, often enough about specific QC or quality problems, I've also seen gripes about Colt, LMT and whomever else you might want to consider top tier.

ugaarguy
February 13, 2008, 09:25 PM
That chart means nothing to anyone and shouldn't, unless you are in the sandbox or the like.
The question "what is the price tag on the colt?

I can tell not difference in that and my BM patrolman carbine.

Just currious" was asked. I provided an answer. That chart is quick reference of things to change, fix, or keep a close eye on in several manufacturers' rifles. The items shown as critical truly are critical for a weapon. For example, I properly staked the gas key on my DPMS AR's bolt carrier to hold me over until I get a Colt, LMT, or BCM bolt carrier group. Alternately, the carbon steel Olympic barrel that's on my FN upper shoots very well so I'm leaving it alone.

The chart also shows where your extra money is going on the top brand rifles.

seektruth
February 13, 2008, 09:58 PM
Noveske, Colt, LMT, Sabre Defence.

H2O MAN
February 13, 2008, 10:15 PM
ID_shooting

H20, what is the price tag on the colt? ...... Just currious

Clyde Armory is currently about the only source of 6920s, they have about 60 on hand.

Something like $1300.00 ~ Get them now or wait and wait.

Soybomb
February 13, 2008, 10:20 PM
That chart means nothing to anyone and shouldn't, unless you are in the sandbox or the like.

Out of curiosity, why do you feel that way? While they may not need to use it every day, we have many people in the country that rely on their rifles for their personal protection on the job or at home. It seems no different than wanting a reliable handgun. Odds are your bolt won't break if/when you seriously need your gun but when a lot of this stuff is the same cost, why bother with the less tested option? Same for twist rate for that matter. If you want to shoot 75gr ammo, 1/7 twist might be a very important feature to look for. I can understand wanting the best quality rifle just as much as I can wanting the best quality handgun. Thats not to say everything listed there is important, but some of it really probably is.

jpwilly
February 14, 2008, 01:21 AM
DPMS rifles are great IMO. My experiance with the my two has been +++. Stag, Bushy, Etc all good AR's

TimboKhan
February 14, 2008, 01:56 AM
Consider that a target AR, match rifle, may have a long heavy match barrel with a twist tuned to heavy (90+ grain) match ammo, gnat's breath trigger, and 12 pounds of lead in the fixed stock and fore end. A big heavy unwieldy beast that isn't suited to action shooting but will happily make sub moa holes at a thousand yards.


I think he already answered it, but you may have overanalyized what he meant by target shooting. I have a Bushmaster Predator and another Bushmaster carbine, and at the range, both are used for "Target shooting". One is obviously for real target shooting, and the other is for shooting at targets for fun. My Predator, a fine rifle that I like, is fairly unsuitable for HD. My carbine, which I end up shooting far more often, is suitable for about everything and is in fact loaded and standing ready by my bed right now.

If you didn't pick up on it, I like Bushmaster. I like the product, I think they sell for a fair price, the teeny-tiny bit of service I needed was handled most excellently, and they have a nice selection of rifles. DPMS would be my second choice, almost entirely because I want a 7.62x39 upper, but also because they too seem to make a quality product.

Both my rifles are pre-cerebus, and thus it remains to be seen if the overall quality and service remains the same (I can't see why it wouldn't, but who knows). On the other hand, Cerebus also just licensed the Masada, which is at least interesting to me. Who knows if I will ever buy one, but at least they are making something interesting. Cerebus also gets a high-five for marketing a Remington AR. As far as I can tell, it isn't anything but a Predator that has a mossy oak paint job, but a Remington AR does nothing but help make AR's more "mainstream".

Nagant
February 14, 2008, 02:04 AM
What about the S&W M&P series? Probably pretty pricey compared to some others talked about here, but I think they are pretty darn nice. I personally have never been too impressed with the bushmaster AR's. They seem... loose... or something. The M&P 15 feels nice and tight... solid. Accurate, reliable. I like it :D Just my 2 cents.

Soybomb
February 14, 2008, 02:18 AM
Both my rifles are pre-cerebus, and thus it remains to be seen if the overall quality and service remains the same (I can't see why it wouldn't, but who knows).
I'm actually hoping it goes the other direction and they get some higher quality bushmaster parts over to the dpms side of things to streamline and cut costs.

lencac
February 14, 2008, 02:43 AM
I suppose you can get a good or bad any manufacture AR. My Colt is going on 17 years old. Literally the only time it jammed was when I ran wolf ammo through it. The original barrel throat went south at about 50,000 rds. !!!! It's a Match H-bar 20" 1 in 7 twist barrel. I have had it hot enough to boil spit on the barrel and I have had it shoot sub MOA groups with handloaded ammo. I've had it so muddy that I literally had to clean it with a garden hose. Let it drip dry for 5 minutes, stick a fresh magazine in it and start blastin. It has absolutely never failed me and always hits what I point it at (except the magpie that liked to dodge bullets).
So without hesitation I say >>>> COLT
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/7215/ar15hz8.jpg

possum
February 14, 2008, 02:54 AM
if money wasn't an option then i would go with a slr-15 the "grail" from defesive edge. but i have had no issues with the 2 bushmasters that i have owned, and the many more that i have shot. are they the best ? maybe not but they are a great value, and they will run and run in my experience.

stag makes good stuff, as well as rra.

Darthbauer
February 14, 2008, 12:38 PM
Um, you are in CA.

Unless you are LEO, the only ones you can get will be the lesser brands which are getting into CA (legally) under the radar.

Could care less that im in CA. I have ways of getting around the laws (legally). I have the abilty to get any brand I want.

SwampWolf
February 14, 2008, 04:47 PM
Not trying to divert the OP's purpose, but I'd be interested in opinions regarding who makes an AR best suited for a target rifle for NMC (Service Rifle Competition) "out-of-the-box"?

pgeleven
February 14, 2008, 05:41 PM
You can get great rifles for less though. What's the purpose of this rifle? I see $3k rigs that miss paper at 100 yards on shooter error. Because you have the best weapon money can buy doesn't mean you'll shoot tight.
couldn't have given a better response. no amount of money spent on a weapon can guarantee it will rub off the proper fundamentals to handle it like an expert.
it seems almost every company out there is making their own AR type rifle. if this is your first i would recommend shopping around a bit until you find one for about $700. i feel that most weapons that sell for more than that without any difference in appearance or features, youre paying for the name brand.

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