[TheeBadOne]

Officer Patrick Maher
Federal Way Police Department, WA
End of Watch: Saturday, August 2, 2003

Age: 46
Tour of Duty: 8 yr

Officer Maher was shot and killed after breaking up a fight between two brothers and the suspect's ex-girlfriend. Officer Maher was dispatched at approximately 1020 hours to a convenience store on an unrelated assignment when he saw a fight in a parking lot between three people. After breaking up the fight, the suspect fled on foot across a street out of the City of Federal Way and into the City of Kent, where he attempted to escape from Officer Maher by climbing a fence.

Officer Maher caught up to the suspect and was able to pull him down from the fence. In the ensuing struggle, the suspect gained control of Officer Maher's firearm. The suspect then pointed the gun at his brother and ex-girlfriend. In an attempt to disarm the suspect, Officer Maher lunged at the suspect, but was shot in the abdomen, just below the edge of his bullet resistant vest.

The suspect’s brother jumped on the suspect's back and held him until other officers arrived. The suspect was arrested by members of the Kent Police Department and charged with murder.

Officer Maher was removed to Harbo View Medical Center where he later died from his wound.

Officer Maher had served with the Federal Way Police Department for seven months and had previously served in Hawaii for seven years with the Honolulu Police Department. Prior to that he served for 20 years in the United States Coast Guard. He is survived by his wife and two children.
-------------------------------------------------
A lesson here is that guns don't think, and don't care who they hurt/are used against. Your very own firearm can be used against you, so guard it well. Security type holsters can help, and there are some security systems that work with the gun itself, although they are few and have some limitations. Revolvers have the option of the mag-lock system which is very interesting. Pistols are more limited in options.

[Orthonym]

TBO, do you know any pleasant, non-creepy stories?

[New_comer]

:(

My prayers go to the fallen cop and his family...

[Old Fuff]

It might be important to know what kind of holster the officer's gun was secured(?) in. Too many lawmen are still using leather that almost invites snatching.

[4v50 Gary]

Arm & a half distance away with sidearm away from the subject still applies today. Los Angeles County just lost a 12 year vet. deputy. His sidearm and shotgun were taken too. :(

[Gewehr98]

If you wanna go whole hawg, there's news stories of US GI's getting killed fairly often over in Iraq. That should keep your morbid cut and paste skills sharpened, and you could still report on public servants getting killed. :scrutiny:

[pax]

People, if you wish to comment upon the story posted, do so.

If you wish to dictate what may or may not be posted, you'll have to start your own board or something.

If you're concerned about the signal-to-noise ratio, ask yourself whether your griping is adding to or subtracting from the quality of THR.

</moderator hat off>

TBO, thanks for posting this. There are indeed a few good lessons here for ordinary citizens -- and for the LEOs on board too.

If you CCW, have you had retention training? It is not as intuitive as one would think, and it may save your life someday.

Do you know how to do a disarm? Have you practiced it lately?

It is too bad that this LEO decided to go for a disarm, and didn't make it. My heart goes out to his family and loved ones.

pax

[12-34hom]

Pax, Thank you

To the officer and family - RIP

We are diminished.

12-34hom.

[DingoDog]

We just returned from dropping off some food for the officers and a card for the family at the police station. Officer Maher was at our house returning some stolen property on Friday.

I'm glad I said thank you.

Our thoughts are with his family, friends and co-workers.

[JohnKSa]

Lessons:

1. It's much easier to keep your gun than it is to get it back once you've lost it.

2. It's much easier to shoot the person who has taken your gun with your backup gun than it is to try to take your gun back barehanded.

3. Anytime you are armed and get into a wrestling match, it's a potentially life-ending scenario. There's always a gun handy--yours--once you start mixing it up, there's no way to ensure he won't end up with it.

4. If you don't have a plan for what to do when someone takes your gun, you may find yourself with no alternative but to try to take it back barehanded or to turn and run.

[Standing Wolf]

The suspect then pointed the gun at his brother and ex-girlfriend. In an attempt to disarm the suspect, Officer Maher lunged at the suspect, but was shot in the abdomen, just below the edge of his bullet resistant vest.

I wonder whether the brother and ex-girl friend appreciate his sacrifice.

[Quartus]

Sad, sad, sad. :(


Good points, JohnKSa and pax. I hadn't even TOUGHT of retention training for a non-LEO!

[WAGCEVP]

The antis say that "ordinary citizens shouldn't have guns because they can be taken away and used against you...... This goes to show that even "trained" officers can have their guns taken away....

God Bless You Officer, RIP! God Bless the family.

[Mark Tyson]

This happens so often . . . is there a way to design a holster that is less likely to be accessed from an odd angle, or something along those lines?

Alternatively, maybe more weapon retention/combatives training would be helpful.

[Old Fuff]

Several companies, the most prominent being Safariland Ltd. and Bianchi International, make duty holsters that are almost impossible to snatch a gun from. Yet if necessary the officer can draw a pistol quickly. I have seen demonstrations where an individual was literally yanked off his feet by someone lifting/pulling on the gun’s handle, yet it didn’t come out of the holster. All patrol officers should be equipped with this kind of gear.

[tomkatz]

In my job as school security in the town where this man worked as a LEO, I had occasion to meet him twice in the last two months. Very nice guy, seemed very safety conscious, apparently ALWAYS wore the vest.
Retention holsters should be mandatory IMO.
Heartfelt sympathy goes out to his family, and officers in Federal Way.....tom

ps....the whole puget sound region is going to hell if you ask me, and hopefully this scumbag gets convicted and goes through a little hell of his own!!!!!

[mattd]

Not wrestling with someone that could take your gun is the best ideal.

[Archie]

Pepper spray is (at least to me) an attractive alternative to wrestling someone.

Pepper spray is legal most places (even PDSR Ca!). I suggest it go in your pocket when a sidearm goes on your side. It's nice to have that medium threat ability.

I'll put this family in my prayers. Too sad a good man goes down.

[Carlos]

Very sad. God Bless our good officers!! Glad the dirtbag is in custody.

[Duncan Idaho]

Pepper spray is (at least to me) an attractive alternative to wrestling someone.We had a King County cop, Deputy Richard Herzog, killed by a perp using the deputy's own gun a couple of months ago. He had just used his condiment spray to stop the attacker. All of the witnesses (one of whom was an E.M.T. who tried to cover the suspect with her own CCW - brave lady BTW) said that officer Herzog had sprayed the suspect straight in the face. The suspect ran into the officer, took his gun, chased him, and when officer Herzog tripped and fell, the suspect emptied his own gun into his head.

Condiment sprays are handy ways to make food more spicy. They have no place in law enforcement, with perhaps the exception of crowd control.

Over the years, as our nation has become rife with sheeple, there has been a trend toward institutionalizing the idea that one should be prepared to box/Kung Fu/Gymkata for a while, then perhaps wrestle for a bit, then maybe a little knife-fighting (you know, just to make it sporting), maybe a little condiment spray, some sparks from a toy gun, and then - and only then - does one go for one's gun.

I prefer the old method. Show the POS the operating end of the gun, and let the thug decide if he wants to live or die.

[DingoDog]

Standing Wolf,

The family of the guy who did this are devastated by what he did. They are washing their hands of him. They have all been terrorized by him in the past. His own father took out a no-contact order on him after being beaten by him.

It was a typical case of a guy with multiple assaults continuing to have them plead down to nothing and receiving no punishment.

This is not a flame on you, just letting you know the family does understand what their son did.

[tomkatz]

Duncan Idaho.....I gotta agree with you, we are letting these idiots rule the streets. The Underwood case in Des Moines, I believe he was shot with his gun still in his holster. I like your plan, show em the business end and let them choose their own fate!!!!.......tom

[280PLUS]

fighting instead of going for our gun

anyone can lose their weapon to anyone at any time

"20 year coast guard vet"

this guy couldnt do enough for his country

a shame some worthless pile of crap had to take him from us

makes me sick

sympathies to all the victims

RIP Officer Maher

everybody else,,,please, be careful out there

m

[Erik]

In no particular order:

There are times when LEOs have to close with the bad guys. Those times are measured in the hundreds, perhaps even thousands, compared to the few instances where gun play is the order of the day.

If you carry a gun, you should be well versed in retention drills.

Pepper spray is not the silver bullet many believe it to be. Relatively effective, a slight breeze precludes its use. Enclosed spaces as well. Proximity to others does too. (All of which may or may not have come into play.)

Retention holsters are a good thing, imo. However, they do not and should not take the place of proper training. Too often they do. They also slow you down in those relatively few instances where you want your pistol out fast. Yes, you may practice and become pretty fast from a Level 2 or 3 holster. No, you won't be as fast as from a Level 1 holster. Regardless of what the sales rep claims. (Life is full of trade offs.)

---

RIP

[280PLUS]

i see what you mean, the police have to take the offensive as part of their job and are forced to close with a suspect where they become more vulnerable to having their gun taken

where, as a civilian, and with very few exceptions, my mindset is to do the opposite and take a defensive mode, doing everything i can to put space between myself and an assailant before i resort to pulling my gun

are there any good links or publications that cover the topic of gun retention??

everything i see so far is classroom oriented and far away,

from me anyways...

m

[Bart Noir]

Been paying his wages every day he was on the FedWay force. He has been protecting my family and if we had been awake, it was close enough to hear the shot. Believe it is our first police officer death since the Federal Way Police Department was formed, which was only a few years ago. It saddens me greatly, especially since the death was hours later. The family must have gone through hell, waiting and hoping. Don't think I have the strength to view the funeral procession. Those tear me up too much.

Bart Noir
No joke or saying here, not today.

[Duncan Idaho]

werent we just talking about this?? fighting instead of going for our gunYep. And you can bet your last dollar that the bad guys know where people have been brainwashed into fighting first, and shooting last.

They are the places with the most dead cops per capita.

They are the places where the most successful "police brutality" lawsuits are filed. The perp knows that all he has to do is get a bloody nose duking it out with the cop, and Joe Suburbaniteslob, and his wife Jane Soccermommy will hand the punk a few million for his "pain and suffering".

They are the places in which the most savage crimes are commited, because the worst thing the perp needs to fear is a little aerosol spice in his face in return for his naked savagery.

This was the case with Deputy Herzog's killer. The killer was standing naked in a busy intersection, and trying to drag passing women from their cars (in order to rape them) as they slowed in traffic for the light.

In the good old days, all the witnesses would have heard is BOOM!
THUD! STOP! POLICE!

Better to quiver as sheeple, than to risk living as humans again. I guess. :rolleyes: :scrutiny: :uhoh: :barf:

[Orthonym]

Condolences and sympathy from here, too. More evidence for something I've been thinking about for years: It seems that the policemen most often shot dead are the ones we'd most like to keep around, but the mean ones retire as rich detectives. Another corollary to Murphy's Law?

[JShirley]

Hm. Seems like there are a decent number of members close to me.

Sad about the officer. I'm glad he died saving others, not from a heart attack, or a traffic accident, though it may be small consolation to his family.

Also nice that this post from TBO is (1)current, (2)has discussion-worthy points, and (3)was accompanied by some commentary, instead of just a posting of an officer's death. Unfortunately, death comes to us all, not just to those employed by state or federal governments.

John

[blades67]

It's too bad a good man had to die, but it would seem he saved a family from a monster in doing so.

[tomkatz]

Apparently officer Maher was carrying his glock in a level 2 holster, and it was the correct holster for his gun.
Kent police have sent the holster and gun to experts for examination.
I stopped at the memorial site today for a bit, very sad....tom

[SSGMike]

because a friend of mine had it happen to him only a few months ago. His shift had almost ended when he got a shoplifting call. He responded to the call and the scumbag blindsided him, punching him through the window before he could get out of his car. He managed to exit the car, but then the criminal (also one with a mile-long rapsheet) wrestled his pistol from him and shot him in the head with it. More local PD arrived around that time, and one of them shot and killed the BG.

This traumatized me - I'm still bothered by it. Scott and I both enlisted in the National Guard back in '90, he in the Scout platoon and I in the TOW's. We talked like old friends, but I think he talked to everyone that way. I ran into him and his new wife and baby back around Christmas (I'm in another unit now) and he was really happy with his career, new family, etc. Then this dirtbag took him away from all of that.

This event, all by itself, changed my outlook on life. I started carrying daily, and swore that if I ever witnessed anything like that happening I was gonna get involved. To Hell with the BG, and to Hell with sitting and watching safely from a distance so I can give a good report to the cops when they show.

Pardon my soapbox. I'll put it away now.

[Carlos Cabeza]

There's a lot of good people on this board.....................

I offer my humble acknowlegement of Officer Maher's accomplishments.
May he find eternal peace.:(

I prefer the old method. Show the POS the operating end of the gun, and let the thug decide if he wants to live or die.

Ask him nicely ONCE.........and only once.

[Duncan Idaho]

This event, all by itself, changed my outlook on life. I started carrying daily, and swore that if I ever witnessed anything like that happening I was gonna get involved. To Hell with the BG, and to Hell with sitting and watching safely from a distance so I can give a good report to the cops when they show.Amen

[TheeBadOne]

i see what you mean, the police have to take the offensive as part of their job and are forced to close with a suspect where they become more vulnerable to having their gun taken.
- 280PLUS

Concise and well said!

[RustyHammer]

Very sad ..... prayers follow.