.357 magnum bolt-action?


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NoirFan
February 14, 2008, 09:30 AM
Hello,

So far my only long gun is my CZ 452 trainer. This gun is fantastic and it makes me wonder why no one makes a mag-fed .357 magnum bolt rifle? My reasons are:

1. I love the .357 magnum cartridge.
2. I already have a .357 revolver and ammo.
3. I like bolt rifles.
4. I donít like lever rifles.

I suppose the biggest problem is the rimmed case on the magnum, but the .22LR has a rim and itís no problem for my 452. Couldnít you just scale up the same basic action to fire a .357? Admittedly I am a rifle novice so please let me know if there is a gaping problem with this idea.

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Wedge
February 14, 2008, 10:11 AM
No real problem with something like that, many other cartridges are rimmed, 7.62x54R (mosin-nagant) comes to mind.

My guess is that there are so many choices superior to .357 Mag in rifle cartridges and that it makes for a handy quick lever cartridge/rifle combo that there just isn't a market for it. Same as the market for a .30-30 bolt...there are some out there but they are few and far between.

ColdChili
February 14, 2008, 10:11 AM
I like the idea, sign me up for one too, but in 500 S&W and left handed.
I'll also take one in 454 casull, 460 S&W, and 44 Mag.

Shawnee
February 14, 2008, 10:35 AM
The famous Remington 788 was chambered for a limited time in. 44 magnum.
If one could even be found for sale today the price would likely be close to $2000 - a slight increase over its' original sale price of $99.

:cool:

R.W.Dale
February 14, 2008, 10:38 AM
Don't forget the ruger 77/44 magnum!

Seafarer12
February 14, 2008, 10:45 AM
The famous Remington 788 was chambered for a limited time in. 44 magnum.
If one could even be found for sale today the price would likely be close to $2000 - a slight increase over its' original sale price of $99.


They also came in 30/30. I have a left handed .308 788. I saw one go on gunbroker the other day for 600. If they get any higher I might have to part with mine.

As far as a bolt action I don't know any. I have a lever action .357 and love it. I wish they still made the timberwolf. I really like pumps. I don't see much of a market for a .357 bolt gun. You loose the advantage of quick followups. Just want a little more power if I am going to get a bolt gun.

lmccrock
February 14, 2008, 10:45 AM
In the past, Ruger made a bolt action in 44 mag (77/44). They also had semi-auto and lever action 44 mag. But no .357.

There are pistol caliber semi-autos and lever guns, but bolt action pistol calbers is a very small niche. If you can find a bolt gun with the correct bolt face and magazine (or close enough), then a .357 barrel could probably be chambered and fitted. Probably kindof expensive.

Lee

Ascot500
February 14, 2008, 12:07 PM
The closest "factory" rifle that comes to mind is the Spanish Destroyer carbine in 9 mm Largo.

You might be able to use the same dies with a new shellholder.

SaMx
February 14, 2008, 12:36 PM
I wish they still made the timberwolf.
http://www.remtek.com/arms/imi/timber/index.htm ?

looks cool, why doesn't anyone make it anymore?

ColdChili
February 14, 2008, 03:27 PM
Tarus make something similar but its not as pretty...

the two "rumors" I've heard on why they stopped importing the timberwolf are;
1) Sales suffered because around the time they started to import them was the same time the first assault rifle ban was coming. So one theory it that people were spending their money on AR type toys instead of the pump action pistol caliber carbines.
2) The BATF didn't like them because they could be fired with the buttstock removed.

both of these theories seem pretty weak to me though...then again I'm not an expert on the issue.

I pick up a timberwolf parts kit on gunbroker in april and it took me about 8 months to track down all the missing parts and get it up and running.

ArmedBear
February 14, 2008, 03:29 PM
3. I like bolt rifles.
4. I don’t like lever rifles.


Sounds like you need an attitude adjustment, not a bolt-action .357.:D

Seriously, though, apart from the fact that I like my bolties and my lever guns, there are good reasons for the .357 being chambered in lever carbines more commonly than bolt guns.

Ratshooter
February 14, 2008, 03:46 PM
The rimmed case of the 357 does not work as well as a rimmless round in a bolt. I CAN be made to work but can be a little touchy.

You said you don't like levers and thats too bad. The lever action is a fantastic platform for a rimmed cartridge. Have you ever shot a 357 lever gun? If you haven't then you owe it to yourself to at least try one. A friend shot mine a couple of weeks ago and now can't stop talking about it. He has tried to order one but no one has any in stock. Marlin is supposed to running them now and they should be available in April.

My Marlin 357 is hands down my favorite rifle and would be the last to go. Its just too useful to sell.

ArmedBear
February 14, 2008, 04:08 PM
My Marlin 357 is hands down my favorite rifle and would be the last to go. Its just too useful to sell.

Between that and my Marlin .22LR lever guns, I'd have a hard time choosing which is my favorite. Ditto for anyone else who tries shooting one.:)

Come on in. The water's fine.:evil:

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Images/photo_1894C.jpg

rcmodel
February 14, 2008, 04:14 PM
Timberwolf pumps demise:
1) Sales suffered because around the time they started to import them was the same time the first assault rifle ban was coming. So one theory it that people were spending their money on AR type toys instead of the pump action pistol caliber carbines.
2) The BATF didn't like them because they could be fired with the buttstock removed.
2. Any number of antique as well as modern firearms can be fired with the buttstock removed.

1. Could also have been because a great many of them simply didn't work right.
Quality Control was a totally foreign concept to them!

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

ColdChili
February 14, 2008, 04:35 PM
I can't stress "rumor" enough.

1. Could also have been because a great many of them simply didn't work right.
Quality Control was a totally foreign concept to them!


Come on man, its valentines day, where's the love for the timberwolf? :)

Timthinker
February 14, 2008, 07:42 PM
Oh, that darned law of supply and demand again. This summarizes the issue. There is nothing wrong with a rifle chambered for a rimmed cartridge if it functions safely and reliably. Unfortunately, the demand for a bolt-action .357 Magnum is not too great. But a custom rifle could be built-for a price.


Timthinker

Seafarer12
February 14, 2008, 10:15 PM
Tarus make something similar but its not as pretty...

Or work from guys that I know that have bought them.

SaMx
February 14, 2008, 10:18 PM
2. Any number of antique as well as modern firearms can be fired with the buttstock removed.

1. Could also have been because a great many of them simply didn't work right.
Quality Control was a totally foreign concept to them!
That's too bad. Why aren't there more pump action revolver caliber rifles? Frankly I don't really care for lever action rifles (I know, I know), but pump action rifles feel more natural to me.

ArmedBear
February 15, 2008, 12:09 AM
There are several pump action revolver caliber rifles available. None of them are cheap. Most are beautiful, though.

http://www.uberti.com/firearms/images/1875LightingRifle2425.jpg

That said, a lever gun has a rigid foreend and can be held in a greater variety of ways to suit your preference. As with a shotgun, a pump action has its advantages and disadvantages.

NoirFan
February 15, 2008, 09:20 AM
Sounds like you need an attitude adjustment, not a bolt-action .357.

This might very well be true! I have only held and cycled a lever action rifle, but never fired it. Even then I did not really like the feel of the operation though, but I will try firing one before I pass permanent judgment.

Not to mention the looks! Too hokey, too cornball, too COWBOY :D! *catches last train out of town just ahead of a lever-action-wielding angry posse*

But seriously, thanks for answering my question. So the problem is economic and not mechanical.

Seafarer12
February 15, 2008, 09:39 AM
There are several pump action revolver caliber rifles available. None of them are cheap. Most are beautiful, though.
Taurus is cheap but dont have the reliability. I guess you get what you pay for. I never cared for the lightning replicas all that much. I guess there is the Remington pump in .35 remington. You can use the same bullets if you reload.

iowahapkido
February 15, 2008, 12:31 PM
You could try a handi rifle in 357.

ArmedBear
February 15, 2008, 06:39 PM
The infamous Remington 788 was chambered for a limited time in. 44 magnum.

There. Fixed it.:evil:

The Ruger 77 was available until recently in .44 Magnum. They're around, and not too expensive. Seems they weren't overly popular.

ArmedBear
February 15, 2008, 06:45 PM
The infamous Remington 788 was chambered for a limited time in. 44 magnum.

There. Fixed it.:evil:

The Ruger 77 was available until recently in .44 Magnum. They're around, and not too expensive. Seems they weren't overly popular.

tallpaul
February 15, 2008, 08:39 PM
I see someone already suggested the handi rifle. I like mine to :) single shot and 357... might ream mine to the .357 max and shoot .38,.357 or .357 max :evil:

MikeJackmin
February 15, 2008, 09:29 PM
There's always the Martini action, too.

Brian Williams
February 15, 2008, 09:58 PM
A Mini Mauser with the bolt face opened a bit and chambered in 357 would make a nice groundhog gun.

Lon371
February 16, 2008, 07:47 AM
I too wanted .357 in the bolt. I gave and went after the Handi. I could not find one in Southern Indiana. I settled and got the only .44 in a Handi. I looked for 2 weeks, racked up a phone bill. I think I found the only .44 in Southern Indiana. The new Deer hunting rules have made the .357 and
.44 long guns scarce. It (SB2-S44)does shoot sweet though.

Nhsport
February 16, 2008, 08:30 AM
The idea of a 357 bolt might be interesting but I think it would sell. You look at some of the downright weird and silly combos out there that are on the market and I think the bolt 357 makes some good sense.
Why doesn't the OP like lever guns? I myself wasn't a fan because my eyesight didn't allow easy use of the factory sight mounted way down the barrel. Then someone at my range had me shoot a lever that had a peep mounted and it was love.
I believe the Ruger bolt gun for the 44 mag was slightly more expensive than a marlin lever gun . It certainly wasn't any cheeper and I do not recall if it had sights or if it was necessary to buy bases ,rings,and a scope.
To my way of thinking a bolt .357 would be a completely new undertakeing from the factories viewpoint and therefore somewhat of a risk. In other words they would have to risk a bunch of cash to get up and running just to see if it would sell.
The lever gun approach is basicly a stock gun with a couple of different sized parts that can be made on current production lines and isn't much of a risk to make and see how it sells.

Seafarer12
February 16, 2008, 12:00 PM
I too wanted .357 in the bolt. I gave and went after the Handi. I could not find one in Southern Indiana. I settled and got the only .44 in a Handi. I looked for 2 weeks, racked up a phone bill. I think I found the only .44 in Southern Indiana. The new Deer hunting rules have made the .357 and
.44 long guns scarce. It (SB2-S44)does shoot sweet though.

Just find you an ffl and order one from Buds or someplace like that.

Skofnung
February 16, 2008, 12:11 PM
How about a scaled down SMLE in .357? I'd buy two.

ArmedBear
February 16, 2008, 12:58 PM
My Marlin 1894C in .357 is about as accurate as a gun could be with the round. What does the bolt gun offer? What advantage would it have?

As far as I can see, it would be a lower-capacity, more expensive, probably heavier, more finicky, slower-cycling, less "pointable" gun that had the same accuracy. What's the upside?

(BTW the CZ 527 Carbine in 7.62x39 might interest you -- it's not .357, but it's a great little bolt rifle that competes with lever guns.)

http://www.czusa.com/product_detail.php?id=15

http://www.czusa.com/data/productimg/main015.jpg

Lon371
February 16, 2008, 01:34 PM
(BTW the CZ 527 Carbine in 7.62x39 might interest you -- it's not .357, but it's a great little bolt rifle that competes with lever guns.)
Cant use it on Deer in Indiana(legaly). Before someone says its not enough gun(357or44) All of our shots in the last 8-9 years have been under 75 yds and most under 50 yds.

Koos Custodiet
February 16, 2008, 01:50 PM
>4. I don’t like lever rifles.

Heretic!

Get a decent lever, play with it, report back next month.

ArmedBear
February 16, 2008, 02:10 PM
Cant use it on Deer in Indiana(legaly).

Oh, yeah.

Anyone who says that .357 is insufficient for woods deer hunting hasn't seen the ballistics of one that's loaded for carbine use. Until you get out to the range where the bigger, blunt bullet slows down sooner, it could just as soon be a .30-30.

Anyway, I'm guessing that short-range hunting also means quick shooting. At least here, if I see a deer close up, I had better shoot it NOW or forget it. I can't think of a gun I'd rather have than my Marlin lever gun for that purpose.

Carrying a full-size bolt gun for that kind of hunting is like carrying a goose gun for quail. Nothing but frustration and lost opportunities.:)

Seafarer12
February 17, 2008, 04:39 PM
Cant use it on Deer in Indiana(legaly).

Why is that? What is their reasoning?

I know in Texas it just has to be a centerfire.

NoirFan
February 18, 2008, 09:44 AM
Hmm, It seems like even if the bolt .357 existed, it fills no real useful niche! My original question was based on my liking for the CZ452 (my first rifle) and thinking it would be cool to own a scaled-up version shooting .357 ammo (which I also like, and have lots of).

I admit I can't make any argument against levers on the basis of functionality, but I just don't like how they look! Maybe my opinion will change once I shoot them some more.

Thanks,

jcord
February 18, 2008, 04:14 PM
I killed a couple deer with the timberwolf last season.

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