Rifle caliber for self defense


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Firepower!
February 14, 2008, 04:02 PM
Which rifle caliber would you chose for self defrense, and why? Also I will be interested in knowing you choice of rifle?

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rcmodel
February 14, 2008, 04:21 PM
.223 AR-15 Carbine, M-Forgery, Mini-14, or any other very reliable .223 carbine.

Proven performance in CQB.
Widely used, and most used SWAT rifle.
Widely available ammo choices suitable for SD.
Long range pin-point accuracy if the situation warrents it.
Anything bigger / more powerful will have excessive penetration for SD use inside a home (unless you use very good judgment in selecting fragmenting ammo)

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

MudPuppy
February 14, 2008, 04:25 PM
What's the scenerio? Home defense, ranch, Mad Max? You humping it for miles or shootin' from the lazy boy?

Just off the cuff, I like the 7.62x39 because it's got the mass to thump, the taper could help the extraction reliability, I like the platforms available to the round, it's not too expensive.

TimboKhan
February 14, 2008, 04:25 PM
I choose .223, and I shoot an AR. As to the why, it basically boils down to familiarity with the platform. An AR is about the easiest gun in the world to handle and is easy to tailor to specific desires

brian923
February 14, 2008, 04:27 PM
i would say a shotgun, or a 45 acp, as the best HD defence round. of course a handgun would be best, because its not so big. really, anything that you have can be used as a home defense round. some might be better than others, but when it comes down to it, its better than anything else.

if you use the search, and type in home defnce, youll get a lot of responsis to read through.

jimbob86
February 14, 2008, 04:34 PM
A rifle is an OFFENSIVE weapon. Unless you plan on defending yourself from an organized enemy, by taking the fight to them, a Shotty is more appropriate. IMHO, of course.

Soybomb
February 14, 2008, 04:35 PM
5.56 or 6.8 in an ar15 seems pretty nice to me. You have limitless options with the parts you can set it up with. If you already have a rifle that you're skilled with that would be the best option.

R127
February 14, 2008, 04:55 PM
I would not say a rifle is an offensive weapon. Actually I object to the notion of any weapon being inherently offensive or defensive because that is just a matter of how it is employed by its user. The British took to calling all things that were weapons and most things that weren't "offensive" and look where it got them. I know you're talking about tactics though so that's what I'll stick to.

A semi auto rifle is probably exactly what you need if you ever have to protect yourself from a gang. Capacity, accuracy, power and range are all big advantages against multiple enemies in a dynamic environment. And no, a gang won't necessarily break and run when you rack a round into the chamber of your shottie. They won't necessarily run away after the first guy gets shot either. They are short on good sense and high on desire for violence. Increasingly they are also getting military training as this Iraq war drags on and recruitment standards are lowered while simultaneously our borders are being left undefended and militarized foreign gangs work their way into the US. You just can't rely on them not taking cover or working as a team anymore if you ever could. None of this may even be something you'd ever consider where you live but if there are gangs in your area and natural disasters do periodically interupt the civil order then it is something you will want to think about. I live in hurricane country and I've faced down looters before as have some friends of mine. Heck, just think about NOLA or the LA riots for some extreme examples of things that really can and do happen.

Shotguns are the undisputed kings of one shot stops and have a place inside buildings for sure. They do have their limitations though. A shotgun can not effectively engage an enemy at the end of my driveway for instance even with slugs. Your driveway may or may not be a lot shorter than mine. A rifle allows me to tactically control my entire property. On the other hand the limited danger of overpenetration with a shotgun is an advantage in other situations.

Cosmoline
February 14, 2008, 05:13 PM
My rule is to use the biggest, meanest weapon at my disposal if facing imminent deadly harm. If I have the 54R Mosin at hand, I will use it over any handgun. My first order of priority is to win the gunfight and survive. All other considerations are secondary or tertiary.

Courtesy of brass fetcher, a 54R Softpoint. That's a full deposit of 2,500 ft. lbs. and all kinds of hurt:

http://www.brassfetcher.com/images/7.62x54mmR%20Brown%20Bear%20203gr%20SP%20block.JPG

jkingrph
February 14, 2008, 05:28 PM
My rule is to use the biggest, meanest weapon at my disposal if facing imminent deadly harm. If I have the 54R Mosin at hand, I will use it over any handgun. My first order of priority is to win the gunfight and survive. All other considerations are secondary or tertiary.

I agree with part of it, win. I could use my .458 Win Mag, but hate to think of where the bullet may wind up. I stick to a Marlin Lever action shotgun loaded with 000 Buckshot, + a 45acp in the nightstand. My feelings are that the large rifle looking shootgun is far more intimidating than the handgun, and safer in an urban environment than any of my far more powerful rifles.

Cosmoline
February 14, 2008, 05:36 PM
Marlin shotgun... you mean their .410 levergun? That's for plinking rabbits and grouse. Even with buckshot it's the equivalent of shooting some low velocity roundball at an intruder. It might work, but it's not exactly plan A for most people. Use the .458 loaded with a reduced power lion killing softpoint, not the full power buff or elephant loads. Those expand fast and deliver enormous damage within torso depth of a modern human male.

A lot of people assume any rifle will penetrate fifty houses and such. It's not true at all. Indeed heavy, FMJ or solid handgun rounds can easily outpenetrate an expanding rifle round.

Snapping Twig
February 14, 2008, 06:17 PM
SD in home to me means a 1911 in .45acp, that said, my rifle of choice is a Mini 30 in 7.62x39 with 150g SP.

Anything is better than nothing and many say a 12ga is good.

Cmdr. Gravez0r
February 14, 2008, 06:22 PM
7.62x54r. Anything less and you'll be wasting your time. :evil:

General Geoff
February 14, 2008, 08:06 PM
40 watt

arthurcw
February 14, 2008, 08:12 PM
If I was going for a rifle: 5.56 / .223 Softpoints from an AR of the 14.5 - 16" flavor.

benEzra
February 14, 2008, 08:14 PM
.223 Remington, specifically 55-grain jacketed hollowpoints (my personal preference). Favorite platforms would be .223 civilian AK (e.g., WASR-3 or SAR-3), or an AR-15 with 16" barrel and adjustable stock.

Steve H
February 14, 2008, 08:17 PM
If I had to pick a rifle for self defense (not offense) I would go with either a 357 or a 44 mag lever.

R.W.Dale
February 14, 2008, 08:24 PM
Most pesudo operators agree that nothing beats the 6.5x53.5mm Daudeteau for most any tacticool situation

Omaney
February 14, 2008, 08:39 PM
Winner- General Geoff:evil:

KrankyKraut
February 14, 2008, 08:41 PM
You asked for rifle as a defensive weapon. You didn't say rifle or shotgun, which is superior as a close-range defensive weapon. However, for ranges exceeding that of a shotgun, I use a Belgian FN-49 semi-automatic. It holds 10 rounds of 8mm, which is a very hard-hitting round, and relatively inexpensive as surplus. Generally speaking, the semi-automatic is superior to the 8mm Mauser bolt action rifle, which in turn may be superior when equipped with a scope for even longer ranges than the semi-auto battle rifle. But now you're no longer talking "defensive"...

geojap
February 14, 2008, 08:51 PM
Rifle caliber for self defense

Depends on the range. Greater than 200 yards, I generally would want a scoped .308 (or similar round). Less than 200 yards, I generally would want a .223 (or similar round).

M2 Carbine
February 14, 2008, 08:55 PM
Rifle caliber for self defense
Depends on what kind of self defense.

For an all around defense rifle around my place I favor this Bushmaster in .223.

Good for night or day, inside or outside, close up to a hundred yards or so.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/M4withStreamlight.jpg

Clipper
February 14, 2008, 09:20 PM
I keep a Hi-Point carbine loaded with Winchester 115gr silvertip HPs...Sure, I have a AK, and a 54R, as well as a 12ga, but heck, I'm gonna be using it at a max range of 20 feet! The HP is short, even shorter than a 18" shotgun with a real butstock, so it's fast-handling, even in confined spaces, it's minute-of-bad guy's face accurate, and goes boom every time, without fail, as well as sharing ammo with my carry pistol. If I'm shooting 100 yards, it's not simple home defense, it's battle, and then I would grab the AK.

pbrktrt
February 14, 2008, 09:22 PM
mini-30 with ten rounds of Magsafe. if that isn't enough i'm goin for the 270.

Ratzinger_p38
February 14, 2008, 09:23 PM
.30 Carbine, but only because I am a carbine nut.

woad_yurt
February 14, 2008, 10:09 PM
SKS?

DiN_BLiX
February 14, 2008, 10:28 PM
Ive got a 16" mini-14, an sks, and if i need something harder hitting my #4 enfield and mossey 500 12ga are ready, plus various handguns. Indoors, hand guns for me, im afraid muzzle flash would be blinding from one of the carbines.

TimboKhan
February 14, 2008, 10:29 PM
i would say a shotgun, or a 45 acp, as the best HD defence round. of course a handgun would be best, because its not so big

I am not an expert, but I know that pretty much every credible expert around would agree that a handgun is not the best. Clint Smith demonstrated in GUNS magazine a while back that a carbine adds no more length to the presentation than a handgun does.

DiN_BLiX
February 14, 2008, 10:51 PM
adds no more length to the presentation than a handgun does.

I have a smallish house with old (pre50s) style narrow hallways, plus its dark as hell at night so i prefer a 40cal in my right hand and a flashlight in my left.

Bigfoot
February 15, 2008, 12:20 AM
mini-30 with ten rounds of Magsafe.

Uh-oh, not enough penetration to get to something vital. If you shoot someone and he finds out about it he's gonna be mad.

I keep Wolf Military Classic HP in my M-30 and SKS. Great terminal performance, similar to the best 308 loads. The 123 gr V-MAX loads are great also.

I've owned at least one 7.62x39 rifle for almost 20 years now. I used to feel that it was less effective than the 5.56 because of poor bullet performance. That has changed recently due to better bullets and now I'm a big believer in the cartridge.

Wolfgang2000
February 15, 2008, 01:38 AM
7.62x39 is my choice, then I move up to 308. I have a loaded SKS at my back door. It has successfully defended me from several zombie coyotes. :eek::)

I know what THEY SAY the 223 is suppose to do. I know what I've seen it NOT do. If you like it, great, have fun. I don't like it or trust it.

I'll stick to my SKS's and AK clones.

Ignition Override
February 15, 2008, 01:56 AM
Ratzinger_p38. :
My two-month old Kahr Carbine broke and had to go back to the factory :(. In your opinion, would such a (-Kahr-) C. ever be reliable enough to bet your life on, if taken care of and cleaned? Please be frank. It might be better to know now.

Always fired copper-jackets bullets, fresh from Remington boxes-went through about ten boxes (50 each: the barrel and other metal parts were cleaned each night). I now truly wish that I had compared more opinions before having bought this $700 copy of the original gun. Maybe when the right side of the bolt came up OUT of the slot (yes), it was a very unique fluke. Learning the terminology... It was bought in order to be fun, using low-priced ammo but could ALSO be an ok short-distance defensive weapon for the long-term. If the gun sent to me has any more problems, which are not my fault, it will be my first and last copy of the original M-1 Carbine: and will be sold at a financial loss. A small gunstore near here has an original Inland for sale-if it is still there ("Classic A***").
Maybe a 'GI' WW2 or Korean vintage M-1 C. would be better built and more reliable, as many claim. I lost the phone number for a good contact at the Kahr factory (how long before they contact us?).

On the subject of Ruger Mini 14's, would a .223 be about as good a weapon as the 7.62 X 39 at 20-50 feet? And is reliable Russian-caliber ammo (Wolf etc) about the same price as comparable discount .223? A gun dealer just told me that some Wolf is now made in Germany (west or east? Former BRD or DDR?).
I just test-fired a Ruger Mini 14 and an AK-type yesterday at a gun store's range. They let you shoot a used gun right there!
IF a very reliable Ruger Mini 30 were to be found with a wooden stock (like the Mini 14) AND bulk ammo could be bought at about the same price as bulk .223, I might be in the market for one soon, assuming that the more powerful ammo does not wear out the gun faster.

As I injected this question tonight into another topic on THR (and being new to most guns), wiggling the magazines into these two guns took a bit longer than with the M-1 Carbine. Could that not also affect your survival at a bad time?

R127: Your comments made a lot of sense. It would be helpful to read many more similar descriptions of trouble on the streets after a disaster. We live outside the city but go into town quite often (I might need to rescue my wife one day-were the very unlikely to happen: a short gun will be handy).
Any frank comments about these topics are most welcome. I look forward to them.

Timthinker
February 15, 2008, 04:16 AM
A reliable semi-auto rifle chambered for the .223 cartridge should suffice if it is loaded with frangible (fragmenting) ammo. I selected the .223 because it does not pose as great a hazard for overpenetration as a larger round such as the .30-30. The choice of a semi-auto design seems obvious since it allows for rapid, successive shots if they are needed.

Now for my "rant". On a shot-for-shot basis, the 12 gauge is hard to beat when loaded with buckshot or slugs. Is overpenetration a concern with the 12 gauge? Probably, but you possess greater power with this weapon. While a handgun generally possesses less power than a centerfire rifle or 12 gauge shotgun, it offers the virue of compactness, something than can not be dismissed out of hand. As I have stated about this topic before, each individual should research this matter carefully and arrive at answer comfortable to him/her. I can not overemphasize the need for through research in answering this important question.


Timthinker

Firepower!
February 15, 2008, 06:06 AM
I agree to a point with 54R, but I always considered it as a snipping round rather then something to be used in a rifle I would chose to defense.

I am a huge fan of .223 because of its smooth recoil and the variety of rifles offered in it. However, when specifically speaking can not rule out from my list the AKSU74 5.45x39 and off course the famous AK47. But if I have to chose one at this instant I would chose AKSU74 for its compactness and smooth recoil and comprable power to .223- not to forget its reliability since it can go without cleaning as long you want it to.

Spiggy
February 15, 2008, 06:25 AM
first one I can get my hands on is usually the best solution.

Course, currently serving as Home Security is my Norinco clone 1897; One unsecured movie action blank(the awesome loud ones with the big fireballs), one box of secured ammunition(Buck and Slug) and a full bayonet all within arm's reach.
If the situation calls for me to use a big fireball; I'll load the blank and warn the intruder; if not, I'll break out the box; course I don't want to put any holes in my newly painted walls.

Guess if I had to, the next accessable rifle is a SKS, I have a box of loaded 10rd clips, most of them are filled with Wolf Copperjacket hollowpoints; then I have norinco green box and white box ammo too.

Had you said handgun, I'd be royally boned :P my first handgun and the only one I have ammo for is a Type 14 nambu, LOL; so waste the money on expensive 8mm nambu or get shot? Hum... health bills arent too bad right? :D
BTW, 21 in 13 days!

Monkeybear
February 15, 2008, 09:27 AM
Any centerfire rifle caliber will defend your home just fine provided you have both the opportunity and ability to use it. That being said the 5.56 is a NATO round and is often found in military-esque rifles that are comact and hold a lot of bullets; all four of which tend inspire confidence in the user.

The chances of you being killed by someone you don't know are extremely slim. It dose happen though. If one day bad men come to you home to take away the things that are most important to you and you are given the opportunity the obvious reaction is to attempt to call the police. If/when they come they will likely either have a 12 gauge shotgun or an AR-15. I have heard people reason that if they are calling the police and the police are going to bring a shotgun/AR-15" "Why not have one of those on hand just in case the police don't make it here in the next 5 or so seconds".

mnw42
February 15, 2008, 09:35 AM
.30 carbine, followed by 7.62x39, 30-30 and .303 British loaded with Mk VII ball. I say that only because I don't own a full auto Thompson:)

Z_Infidel
February 15, 2008, 09:46 AM
.30-30, 18" barrel, ghost ring sights, loaded with 125 gr JHP ammo. Kinda like my Marlin 336...

Firepower!
February 15, 2008, 09:46 AM
I am begining to think that the age od the members at THR plays a big factor in choice they make....

MNW42...may I ask why would prefer a thompson when you can get MP5K? Just curious or is it collectors item, since I see you are fan of 303 as well. Although I would differ with on that and chose 303 Mark V.

RP88
February 15, 2008, 10:18 AM
.50BMG: lets you defend your home in a radius around it of 1.5 miles:p

srsly though...whatever I would use, it wouldnt be bigger than 7.62x39

esq_stu
February 15, 2008, 10:32 AM
IMO, it must be commonly available (as in WallyWorld), in use by police, the military, "tangos," and "enemies, foreign and domestic."

That means 5.56 NATO, 7.62.39, and perhaps 5.45x39 or 7.62 NATO. When WallyWorld is gone and we're bartering to survive, I don't want to have to scrounge to keep the post-Katrina gangs at bay.

R127
February 15, 2008, 10:50 AM
R127: Your comments made a lot of sense. It would be helpful to read many more similar descriptions of trouble on the streets after a disaster. We live outside the city but go into town quite often (I might need to rescue my wife one day-were the very unlikely to happen: a short gun will be handy).
Any frank comments about these topics are most welcome. I look forward to them.

Living outside the city is guarantee of anything. I live in the country where there are more woods and cows than buildings and people. The vast majority of people who live in the area are white tradesmen with families. Not exactly gang country and things are generally peaceful and orderly. Things still do happen anyway. A while ago a black gang from the city broke into an old retired woman's trailer, gang raped her and left her for dead in an irrigation ditch. Besides selecting a quiet, isolated retirement community of mostly unarmed northerners as easy targets it was totally random. She had no money or anything to suggest wealth and there was zero possibility she could have had any personal contact with any of the criminal scumbags prior to the attack. As I recall it was 5 or 6 of them and this happened during ordinary times not during some disaster or other disruption.

You just can't take anything for granted anymore. Dog fighting and various drug operations are bringing gang crime into the countryside as is the massive illegal immigration influx. Heck, just look at the population growth. There is 30 to 40 percent more people in this country now then there was in the 70's and 80's when all those writers were telling people to move out of the cities. Some places are more crowded than others but there just isn't as much space to go around as there used to be. In 1960 there was around half as many people in the US. The dynamic has changed a lot in the past couple decades. That doesn't mean live every moment in fear either it just means be prepared to handle such extreme situations if they should happen. Don't wear the blinders so long that it's a big suprise when something does occur.

The biggest difference between being in the city and the country in bad times is the kinds of threats you will face. In the city you can get huge mobs like were seen in the LA riots. In the country it's a little different. You are more likely to get one or two car loads of looters or other opportunists like in the situation I described earlier. In the event of a NOLA-style major disaster you can expect massive evacuations that will bring scared, desperate unprepared people into your area. Many of them will start running out of gas and decide you have things they want. After Katrina a lot of people though they were going to do their charitable duty and help these people out. Often it went smoothly, often it did not. Be prepared to turn those people away unless you want to roll the dice. Pepper spray and beanbag rounds can be good for this kind of work. It's nonlethal in case you have to really use it but it's still very strong. A big scary dog or two also helps.

Even if you don't live along a major highway you still can't predict where traffic will be routed especially once broken down vehicles and other things start blocking off the primary evacuation routes and there is also people looking for a shortcut or who otherwise get lost. That's not the end of it either. FEMA and many state agencies will also be looking to loot your for food, water, fuel, shelter, etc. Good luck handling that. Try to look unimportant and bury some food the next time you do any midnight gardening. The 9 scariest words in the English language are "I'm from the government and I'm here to help!"

If you might need to get your wife out of the city then there are a few things you should consider. You want to attract the least attention from the "authorities" as possible since they will be completely freaking out and causing more problems then they solve. This is standard for anything the government does. :rolleyes: Obviously carrying a gun around might draw their attention. Concealed carry will work as good then as it ever does but you will probably want more than a pistol, I would! You can go with a folding stock or you can put the rifle in a bag or both.

You are also likely to encounter a mob whether it is big or small. When the police want to break up a mob they use teargas. Pepper spray is available in 1lbs fogger units and bugbomb style grenade form and that is our equivalent.

It is likely that at some point you will encounter an obstacle your car or truck can't pass. Speed is life in those kinds of situations and walking out on foot is dead slow. Bring a secondary vehicle of some kind, bicycle, moped, dirt bike, billygoat ;). Anything beats walking. Heck, ride your dirt bike in if you can and chances are you won't need anything else.

It would be wise to have at least a level IIA ballistic vest because you have no way of knowing what stray bullet, thrown or falling object or who knows you might catch. A brain bucket is a good idea for the same reason. If you have to go in you want to stack the odds as much in your favor as possible, move so fast and be able to hit so hard there just isn't any contest. Not a time for half measures. Bring some friends if you can.

That btw is not wild speculation. After a storm a couple years ago my very elderly grandparents were completely isolated and cut off, no communications of any kind going in or out and the bridges and most of the roads were out. They lived in a good neighborhood in the middle of a very bad area and the family needed and wanted to make sure they were ok. Know the area and move fast.

I'd argue that a rifle for defense is very good to have in the city and a must anywhere if the chunk of land you live on is measured in several full acres or more.

ZeSpectre
February 15, 2008, 10:58 AM
True rifle caliber? I'd probably grab the SKS in 7.62x39 for speed, or my Remington 7600 Pump in .243 Winchester for accuracy.

Honestly though if I were doing a true "in the home" self defense I'd probably grab my CAS tuned Rossi 92 in .357 Magnum. Outside of my accurate range with that nice little carbine is probably outside a justifiable self defense claim.

Matt-J2
February 15, 2008, 11:44 AM
I say .22lr, though I think .22short is better for when you're worried about overpenetration.

strangelittleman
February 15, 2008, 11:54 AM
I'll go with the 5.56 in a semi-auto rifle platform, for 0m-300m.
I'll go with the .357mag in a Marlin 1894CP for a pistol/ rifle ammo commonality, for indoors(w/lightweight JHPs) & outdoors out to 200m(w/158grJSPs, which will also penetrate, through-n-through on both driver & passenger side car doors @100m, on most sedans & light trucks/suvs, yeah I've tried it on an LEA range that had donated vehicles)

ZeSpectre
February 15, 2008, 11:57 AM
outdoors out to 200m(w/158grJSPs, which will also penetrate, through-n-through on both driver & passenger side car doors @100m, on most sedans & light trucks/suvs, yeah I've tried it on an LEA range that had donated vehicles)

Ya know, I've wondered about that. I've seen what the JSP round will do to a block of ice (frozen milk jug).

Tokugawa
February 15, 2008, 12:56 PM
30 06. I am with Cosmo on this -why use a little bullet when a big one will do?

Art Eatman
February 15, 2008, 01:09 PM
Most any lightweight semi-auto, with cartridge performance somewhere around .223...

AR, Mini, SKS or suchlike. In a true defensive situation, the odds are way against needing bunches of ammo; IMO the deal is to quickly correct for a miss or to handle a second or third bad guy.

Wolfgang2000
February 15, 2008, 02:08 PM
In the city, even the suburbs, I see a lot of promise for a rifle pistol combo. especially if the person is not a "gun" person. I have a carbine in almost every pistol caliber I own. They are fun to shoot and make sense logistically, and they double or triple your effective range. If you go with a semi auto carbine I suggest you try for magazine compatibility also. Again it's just logistically sound.

However a pistol caliber carbine will never replace a true rifle. I'm not a a 223 fan, but at short range it can be very effect. I prefer the 7.62x39 for my intermediate cartridge. I keep a SKS loaded at my home. But I live in the country. My nearest neighbor is 1/4 of a mile away. MY gate is over 100 yards from my house.

When I live in the city my duty shotgun (870P) was next to the bed. There is just a psychological factor with pump shotgun. No the won't go "running into the night", but I have had them soil their paints.

Bottom line, a long arm works well in home defense. Just pick the one that best suits YOUR needs, and practice practice, practice.

jkingrph
February 15, 2008, 02:56 PM
Marlin shotgun... you mean their .410 levergun? That's for plinking rabbits and grouse. Even with buckshot it's the equivalent of shooting some low velocity roundball at an intruder. It might work, but it's not exactly plan A for most people. Use the .458 loaded with a reduced power lion killing softpoint, not the full power buff or elephant loads. Those expand fast and deliver enormous damage within torso depth of a modern human male.

Yes that's what I mean. At ranges close enough to be defensive 3 triple 0 buckshot (36 cal.) can do quite a bit of damage. Even a load of smaller shot at very close range would be good. Realize of course I am talking extremely close range, and consider some of the handguns, ie those chambered to take 45 LC or .41 shotgun. The other reasons I chose this is that I am not now nor every will be proficent with a pump, I do not like to leave a semi Auto ready to go, my double barrels are too nice and expensive to be use in this manner.

I never bought it for this purpose, but for fun with my wife and son, and learned to realize potential of what is there.

556A2
February 15, 2008, 03:18 PM
5.56/.223 is my personal preference when the correct ammunition is used. Its low recoil, good terminal ballistics, and lower chances of over penetration make it a good choice.

H2O MAN
February 15, 2008, 03:33 PM
Firepower!
Which rifle caliber would you chose for self defrense, and why?
Also I will be interested in knowing you choice of rifle?

Knowing what are you defending yourself from and at what range would help.

strangelittleman
February 15, 2008, 03:34 PM
jkingrph, Does the Marlin .410 shoot slugs well? I've always wondered about that..

edrice
February 15, 2008, 04:03 PM
If I had to pick a rifle for self defense (not offense) I would go with either a 357 or a 44 mag lever.

Second that. I have both the Timber Wolf pump-action .357 rifle and the 1894P .44mag Marlin in 16-inch barrel. 1st up though, is 1911 with 10-round McCormack mags.

Also have the Mini-14, but that's for when things really get bad out in the steet. Wouldn't be shooting that around my living room.


Ed

jkingrph
February 15, 2008, 07:22 PM
#53
strangelittleman
Senior Member



Join Date: 10-12-07
Location: the mountains of W.N.C.
Posts: 290 jkingrph, Does the Marlin .410 shoot slugs well? I've always wondered about that..

Cannot comment as I have not tried them.

JJK
__________________

Ratzinger_p38
February 15, 2008, 08:12 PM
Ignition Override:

Yes, Id say most Kahr/Auto-Ordinance carbines are reliable, but quality of late is shakier. The problem with the USGI carbines is wear varies greatly: the barrels are all over 60 years old, along with most of the other parts. Sure you can replace a barrel but I wouldnt bother. If you just want a shooter/protector, just stick with the AO.

Firepower!
February 16, 2008, 11:57 AM
If biggest and meanist then why not 700 NITRO?

Firepower!
February 16, 2008, 11:59 AM
H2OMAN
Defending oneself from hostile human beings up to 300 yards minimum since I dont live in a city.

H2O MAN
February 16, 2008, 12:21 PM
Firepower!


H2OMAN
Defending oneself from hostile human beings up to 300 yards minimum since I dont live in a city.

Understood.

I like the M4 style AR or the MK14 style M14 for accurate shot placement.

I like the 7.62 x 39 AK for general purpose mayhem inside of 300 yards :evil:

SamWhite50
February 16, 2008, 01:55 PM
Rifle caliber for self defence would have to be a .30 caliber at least for me.

collateral
February 16, 2008, 02:18 PM
home defense for me means im going for either the 870 with an 18 inch barrel, the Bushmaster 16 inch m4a3 in 223, or my wasr 10. an m44 might not be too bad of a choice but idk how the law would treat bayonet use in home defense

Ignition Override
February 17, 2008, 12:09 AM
R127:

Those are interesting observations.
We live about on the edge of a developed area which has limited patches of virgin land, not far from a highway.

sarduy
February 17, 2008, 12:28 AM
i would go with a 9mm pistol or a AK

MachIVshooter
February 17, 2008, 12:46 AM
My choice:

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/Hunter2506/AR-10A2carbine.jpg

If that won't defeat the threat, I never had a chance in the first place.

shane638
February 17, 2008, 01:55 AM
I feel fine with my 30-30.

nathan
February 17, 2008, 02:13 AM
Pick the one you shoot best no matter what it is. Its about survival and able to return fire accurately. Close in quarters the AK is super. AR as well.
If outside the house, a Garand will do the job very well at long distances.

Mannlicher
February 17, 2008, 11:11 AM
7.62 NATO, of course. :what:

TIMC
February 17, 2008, 12:27 PM
A rifle for home defense? I would have to say everyone is afraid of the big bad wulf!
Nothing like .50 cal to change someones attitude
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/timc/Beowulfonbushlower.jpg?t=1203268974

golden
February 17, 2008, 01:28 PM
My first choice for home defence is a pistol loaded with high performance ammo like a BERETTA 92 or 96, WALTHER P-99 or something simililar with night sights.

I do not like any rifle since I want the gun with me, so if I am sitting in the living room watching tv, it is there and if I go to the bathroom and then into the kitchen, it is still there. I doubt most people would walk through their house with a rifle slung.

If the situation developed where I needed a rifle, it would be a AR-15 carbine with extendable stock like the M-4. I would add a TRIJICON ACOG scope and possiblely a light. That would only be for a WAR LIKE situation.
I like the ergonomics and accuracy of this weapon and find the .223 round's low recoil, flat trajectory and good power to fit my needs.

As a room cleaner, I think the AK-47 in 7.62x39 is a terrific weapon, but the gun weight and short range of the round make the .223 a better choice.

When I lived in CANADA, my home gun was a MARLIN 1894C lever action carbine in .357 magnum. I kept it in my bedroom safe.

Jim

32winspl
February 17, 2008, 01:52 PM
Just me I guess, but I really can't see using a rifle for home defence (if in an urban or suburban location) unless it is either A) designed to shoot pistol rounds, or, (if a rifle round) B) loaded with a varmint bullet. Again, just my opinion.

Marlin 45 carbine
February 17, 2008, 01:55 PM
I'll go along w/the pistol-caliber carbine round and matching pistol. semi-auto w/hi-cap mag for in and around the home (urban combat) is good idea. next would be 7.62X39mm rifle.

H2O MAN
February 17, 2008, 01:56 PM
I like direct access to this trio plus a 6920 and an type 51S-1 UF AK.

http://www.athenswater.com/images/3-HDWs.jpg

mljdeckard
February 17, 2008, 02:38 PM
It depends on your definition of 'defense', are we talking about inside a home, around your town after a disaster like katrina, out in Iraq doing routine intel work, or on battlefield where total war is being waged?

I keep a shotgun and an M-1 carbine in my house. I will probably use an SKS to fight my way out of whatever disaster happens that makes me need to get out of town. I'll use an M-4 for most of the jobs I will ever need to do in the army. If I get into jobs that require an M-14 or AR-10 that an M-4 couldn't do, they probably aren't defensive in nature.

Firepower!
February 20, 2008, 02:57 AM
As much I appreciate pistol and shotgun choices and pictures, they wont do any good at 300 yards level.

H2OMAN: I I agree with your M4 choice, but my concern is thier jamming issue in a rough place, otherwise they are smooth shot. However, in terms of 7.62x39 I know it will hit at three hundred but how well in terms of target.

What do you think about 7.62NATO? I own a G3 and HK91, but then my concern is that they are heavy rifles.

Ignition Override
February 20, 2008, 03:29 AM
1) For short-range plinking and self-defense, how about the reliability of either the Ruger Mini-14 or 30 (large magazines for the 30 either unreliable and/or expensive?)? What if you buy it used after first shooting it at a gunstore range (they have a -14)?

I'm seriously considering either one, but prefer the wooden stock 'look' on the Mini14.
The only question for me is reliability, with the gun and the larger magazines.

2) For long-range target practice/possible post-disaster 'needs', a Mosin Nagant 44, depending upon ammo prices (7.62 x 54R: in bulk). The M-N thread on THR makes the gun appear very promising. Reliability with no real repair skills normally needed? A store has one or two which we can tryout.

For you experienced riflemen/ladies, are either one of these options (for either short or long-range) not a good idea?

Art Eatman
February 20, 2008, 10:00 AM
Ignition Override, why worry about big mags? Defense. Home defense. You really think you're gonna have to fight off pagan hordes?

A Mini-14 is always gonna be capable of minute of torso. A few factory 10-round mags around; lots of reliable 20s. You might even luck out and find some of the 1970s/1980s vintage mags, which mostly worked quite well for me.

If a mag is basically well-made but doesn't feed quite properly, well, that's why God invented needle-nose pliers: So you could tweak the feed lips. That's worked on many a mag for a 1911; I see no reason why it wouldn't on any other steel mag. :)

Around the house self-defense? A Mini is as good as an AR or any of the AK clones. The deal is how much you've practiced, so you can hit what you're shooting at. The hittee isn't gonna care.

Art

Brian Dale
February 20, 2008, 10:54 AM
You really think you're gonna have to fight off pagan hordes?Art, Firepower! started the thread, and he doesn't live here. He might be considering just that.

I recommend first looking at the weapons that you shoot the best, then considering caliber.

For me, it's a revolver or a shotgun inside the house. If I included the yard, I'd add the AR-15. The shotgun would still be effective with slugs, to cover the yard (50m maximum at my place). {Edited to add:} Or a lever action Marlin or Winchester in .30-30, .35 Rem. or .32 Special. Haven't used others, but .357 Mag or .44 Mag would be fine with me, too.

Up to 300m, I'd use my M1 Garand. I'd also be happy with the Springfield in .30-'06 with its fixed, 4x scope.

I've chosen the above because I know that I can hit with them. I'd be satisfied with any .30 cal rifle that I shot well.

For me, because I don't expect to have to fight off barbarian hordes, this is just a "what-if?" scenario for me. Nonetheless, these are what I'd choose.

R127
February 20, 2008, 11:05 AM
If you just like the way the Mini looks then so be it, that's a personal choice but practically speaking I think the AR or AK is probably a better deal just because of parts and mag availability and price. 30 round magazines are a good thing. When you are fighting for your life or the safety of your family you don't want to just squeek by with the bare minimum you want it to be completely asymmetric, you want to take every advantage you can to overwhelm and dominate the enemy. Allowing yourself enough ammo to cope with things going badly is a good idea. Betting the farm on everything going off perfectly is not. In real life you will probably never need to fire a shot in anger because most often the sight of the gun will be enough but if you do have to shoot how many bullets do want? The answer is at least as many as it takes.

Mosins are powerful, tough, reliable rifles. They are inexpensive, somewhat crude and the ammo is cheap. Most of them are not tack drivers but 2 or 3 MOA is a realistic expectation for a good one and accurate enough to get the job done at 500 yards if you can shoot as well as the rifle. 1941 through 1943 Mosins can be very rough and usually aren't the best shooters because Russia was hurting bad during this part of the war and had to make sacrafices to speed up production. Always check the bore, chamber and crown. If you can bring a round of 7.62x54r with you and stick the bullet in the muzzle to make sure it isn't loose, it shouldn't go in all the way. All in all Mosins are a good value. I like the fullsize 91/30's more than the carbines because if you're shooting a fullsize cartridge you may as well have a fullsize barrel to get maximum powder burn but if you like short go for it. Most 91/30's I've encountered will shoot point of aim without the bayonet but most of the carbines won't.

Wolfgang2000
February 20, 2008, 11:44 AM
There was a incident yesterday where a man in used a 30-30 to stop 2 men from breaking into his home. 1 shot got both of them.

http://www.springfieldnews-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080220/NEWS01/802200424

Scott7891
February 20, 2008, 02:35 PM
Vz-58 (milled receiver, open mag well, striker fired, fires 7.62x39 like AK, less parts, and no tools required for field stripping) and backup stripper clips when the mags run dry + SVT-40 (semi-auto 7.62x54R) on my back just in case for the long range. It is better to be prepared for the overkill than to not be prepared at all. This world is random and so are the people and events in it. You cannot go on the assumption that nothing really, really bad will happen because of where you live. When it does happen and you aren't prepared you are screwed.

jabotinsky
February 20, 2008, 03:54 PM
Around the house self-defense? A Mini is as good as an AR or any of the AK clones.

I'm with Art on this one.

I've been looking at getting a step up from the 10/22 for fun, HD and temporary civil disorder/disasters. My short list is CX-4, 1894c, M1 carbine and Mini-14. The Mini is getting dissed these days and there are many used ones around...but I like its reputation for reliability, the wood furniture, .223 round, light weight, and the sporty ranch look that doesn't scream tacticool or insurgent.

Cosmoline
February 20, 2008, 05:00 PM
For long-range target practice/possible post-disaster 'needs', a Mosin Nagant 44, depending upon ammo prices (7.62 x 54R: in bulk). The M-N thread on THR makes the gun appear very promising. Reliability with no real repair skills normally needed?

The M44 is quite a bit shorter than the long rifles, and has a famous amount of flash and blast. So that's one drawback. The Soviet ones tend to have fair to meh accuracy while the Polish ones are often 1MOA. Reliability is excellent and the only real parts to worry about wear out every century or so and can be replaced very easily.

Firepower!
February 21, 2008, 03:01 AM
Brian Dale...I like your pick of M1 Garand 30-06. But how would you compare it to a semi 54R? Or perhaps 308 select fire?

Ignition Override
February 21, 2008, 03:46 AM
Art E: Quite true-thanks.

Jabotinsky:

I also agree with your thinking, among many at THR. But be really careful which type M-1 carbine you buy. I was impulsive and new nothing about semi-autos etc or the rest...
The Mini 14 appears to be viewed as inaccurate yet quite dependable by almost everybody on THR and TheFiringline. I have no idea what it is like to have a reliable semi-auto. Not one bit-but hope to soon enjoy this (it seems quite elusive, like a mirage in the desert).

Along with a good Mini (taking a more exper. shooter with me to look over some Mini 14s and review what to check in a used gun other than jamming, rust and pitting) my goal is to get a good MN, maybe the longer types to reduce recoil (a good Mauser 98 might not cost much more, but the 8mm ammo seems to cost what other ammo does at Bass Pro Shop :().

A website with lots of Mosin info (on the "FAQs), claims that
ALL surplus 7.62x 54R ammo is corrosive, no matter what the claims.
If so, is this why so many MNs cost very little to buy (partly due to cheap ammo?), or are many thousands of these guns suddenly now changing hands years after the Iron Curtain (Eiserner Vorhang) came down, no matter what the condition?:confused:

Brian Dale
February 21, 2008, 03:49 AM
Brian Dale...I like your pick of M1 Garand 30-06. But how would you compare it to a semi 54R? Or perhaps 308 select fire?

Thank you, Sir. I regret that I can't offer an opinion about semi in 7.62 x 54R. I haven't fired a select fire .308, either.

Given the chance to become familiar with them, I'd choose the rifle that I handled best. I would be satisfied with any of the three cartridges and would make my choice based on the rifle that I wanted to use.

Others here know much more about these choices than I do. I simply know that, based on my own shooting, and choosing from among the rifles that I have used, I'd be most confident with an M1 for the situation you have described.

LAK
February 21, 2008, 05:43 AM
Anything from .243/6mm Rem on up.

Bullets that will perform adequately on animals up to about 400 pounds. Nosler Partitions come to mind for example.

Plenty of reach if/when needed.

Good performance against incidental target barriers.

Will handle predators and procurement of game animals for food with the same ammunition.

M110
February 21, 2008, 06:38 AM
My 870, and my 92 lever-action in .357. Both I feel are outstanding for the HD role. But I have plenty of choice's, if I need to "reach out" beyond the HD perimeter. /wink

mnw42
February 21, 2008, 09:30 AM
Firepower!- I've got to have my preferences. Besides, there has to be something said about a 50 rd drum of .45 ACP:D It is more of a dream since I don't have twenty grand plus $200 of disposable income. Mk V, humm... I'll have to try that. I love my Enfield, especially with rate of fire bets:evil:

The AO Carbines I have seen have been hot and cool with reliability and quality, but GI parts do seem to fit with little or no fitting. My IBM/Blue Sky carbine is 99% reliable and more than accurate enough out to 100 yds for a defense situation. That being said, I did have to clean it up a bit and replace the bolt (new Underwood) and springs to get it to that point. I also expect .30 carbine SPs to be effective at shorter distances.

My carbine is my first choice for a HD situation since I don't have an appropriate shotgun. It is also light and very handy compared to my SKS or even my Winchester, and the report is less deafening indoors . If I have everything else disassembled for cleaning or lacking ammo I use my No. 4 Mk. 1* with Mk VII ball.

I think the loading is as important as the caliber. I currently keep my M1 loaded 110 gr SPs, If my m94 is next to the bed I prefer Federal 125gr SPs. If I had an AR I'd probably use ball or HPs over more varmint oriented loadings. I think that the 7.62x54R, .303, or 30-06 is a bit much, but the best gun is the one you have and almost any long gun is better than a hand gun.

Has anybody tried Cor-Bon's 100gr DPX .30 M1 load yet? I just got a box to try out.

BIGR
February 21, 2008, 05:36 PM
Any good semi auto in .223 or 6.8 SPC. If those don't get it done then get the .30 caliber or bigger out.

Defensory
February 21, 2008, 11:19 PM
.308/7.62 NATO

Superior to the .223/5.56 NATO in both stopping power and range.

You'd be ready for virtually any conceivable self-defense situation.

Firepower!
February 22, 2008, 03:57 AM
Defemsory...I 308 is a storng enough bullet for multiple purposes. The only issue associated with it is that all rifle made in 308 available here in Pakistan are too heavy. Perhaps a good gun for a guard on duty.

What rifles do you prefer in 308 (select fire)?

Bowfishrp
February 22, 2008, 09:55 AM
Well if I was not worried about blowing holes in my neighbors house, then my DPMS LR308AP4 in .308 would do the job perfectly.

I wonder if a 458 socom would work?!? :)

diesel83
February 22, 2008, 12:29 PM
First and foremost, the first rule of a gun fight is to have a gun. The presumption that a rifle is readily available in your bedside drawer's lock box is what you need to think through first. In general, I recommend the pump 12 gauge shotgun with #4 buck loads to scatter away two legged demons of the night for all home security needs. A nice weapon from Mossberg, Winchester, etc. can readily be had. The shucking of the action is enough to scare anyone away.

For the point of convenience, I always recommend a .357 wheelgun because of their simplicity of use and appropriate power. 125 grain JHPs give bad guys good medicine. Of course, for those well-trained a semi-auto 9MM/.40/.45 ACP is always a great choice presuming that ammo is reliable and operation is simple (e.g: A Glock in .45 is a potent potion).

If you live in an urban area and insist on a rifle, a .357 lever gun from Marlin or Winchester is an excellent companion to the above. Ensure that your ammo will feed properly. A lever rifle also does not scare peering eyes as much as other types of weapons.

In a suburban environment, 7.62 x 39 is excellent, especially in a Ruger Mini-30. The knockdown is solid, but the over-penetration is not as severe as .223. Most AK variants would alert the cops that you were looking for trouble, so avoid those. Remember, the mess after the shooting is the hard part. I do not knock .223 black rifles as a weapon, but most of us do not know how to round a corner with a long barrel.

In rural areas, .30/30 is just as effective as 7.62 x 39 or 6.8mm SPC, so a solid lever gun is what you require. If you have long shots, .308 FAL is what I'd vote for, but that gun costs 4X what similar Marlin or Winchester would cost you.

In general for home defense, I recommend that you find a medium-caliber weapon that you are comfortable with, which means practice.

Unfortunately, most of us spend to much time thinking about the bullet for the exact moment, as opposed to preparing in advance to operate the weapon and do not think through the legal recourse of killing an intruder. You have to think about both sides of that. Otherwise, you might as well hit them with a bat or simply let them take your money, life, wife, etc.

We all know that a well-placed .22 lr shot will take a man out. It's the other aspects of the gun fight that affect the outcome much more.

Defensory
February 26, 2008, 05:45 AM
Posted by diesel83
If you live in an urban area and insist on a rifle, a .357 lever gun from Marlin or Winchester is an excellent companion to the above.

A lever action rifle is a lousy choice for home/self-defense in an urban environment.

The Ruger Mini-30 you mentioned, as well as a number of other semi-autos, would be a much wiser choice.

Firepower!
February 26, 2008, 06:37 AM
I have not come across Ruger Mini30, but I do own a Mini 14. However, I hate the way the magazine fits in it. It is really a pain to correctly insert a magazine in Mini14. This is a problem in a combat/defense situation.

Dr. Peter Venkman
February 26, 2008, 03:30 PM
Any Caliber that you can shoot accurately and hit your target when it counts.

Ignition Override
February 27, 2008, 01:21 AM
Firepower:

I also did not like the Mini 14 magazine at first. After a few boxes of ammo, it has gotten much easier and natural: it is the only gun I will shoot until the two Mosin Nagants (a 91/30 and a 44 from Classic Arms, NC) arrive in a week :).
The M-1 Carbine magazine is very simple. Why can't the others be like that?
But I'm a bit of a gun novice.
.
Even a Saiga (?) AK-47 mag. was difficult to wiggle in. This gun had a longer barrel than normal and a hollow area built into the stock behind the receiver.
Glad I don't live in **********, with my ammo supply.

diesel83
February 27, 2008, 01:27 AM
A lever action rifle is a lousy choice for home/self-defense in an urban environment.

The Ruger Mini-30 you mentioned, as well as a number of other semi-autos, would be a much wiser choice. Tell it to the cops and the jury. Most urban types freak when they sniff an assault rifle. Keep it low profile in the city.

nitestocker
February 27, 2008, 02:10 AM
i have a 7400 rem in 30 06 i have 10 round mags for it its a carbine i would use it for the rifle part would prefer a ar15 but thats this summer

Defensory
February 27, 2008, 06:39 AM
Posted by diesel83
Tell it to the cops and the jury. Most urban types freak when they sniff an assault rifle. Keep it low profile in the city.

If multiple assailants bust in your home armed with semi-autos, and all you have is a lever action rifle, you're probably going to be pushing up daisies.

I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six. I'll take my chances with a semi-auto and a jury. :D

StrawHat
February 27, 2008, 07:09 AM
I have always felt comfortable with a Winchester in 44 WCF and a revolver in the same chambering. A combo that has worked well since 1873.

I have recently changed to the same combo but in 45 Long Colt and may convert the rifle to the 45 Special or Short Colt.

I fail to see how multiple assailants change the picture. If you are standing in the open against three, you will probably get shot. If you are behind cover and wait for them (defensive position) you may survive.

Firepower!
February 27, 2008, 07:10 AM
Ignition Override: Whats the trick then?

ONe thing I regret about Mini14 is the stock. I think I should have bought one with the wooden stock instead of folding. I say this because I am using this not for SD but for target and ranch etc.

Defensory: I agree with you 100% on this. If I go down I go down shooting.

Ignition Override
February 28, 2008, 01:20 AM
Firepower:

For my (middle) age, I still know too little about guns right now.

Between shooting my old bolt-action Savage .22 in 1985 and last October, I only went shooting about twice. No exposure to semis, and bought brand-new Kahr M-1 carbine: the bolt broke after 2 months-back in factory for over 3 weeks-no word yet from the factory: they can keep it for two years if they want-I'm not sure that I even care, although it's a fun gun. Total mystery to me what to expect, but I've now got a Mini and if it stays reliable will probably have one or two for the rest of my life. Ignorance can be bliss and for plinking am in Hog Heaven.:)

Not wanting to rely on a Kahr carbine ever again (might just sell whatever they ship me, at a big discount, even if brand-new: but have about 12 boxes of carbine ammo! maybe trade for US-made or Wolf .223 rounds?;)), bought the reliable used, fun Ruger Mini two weeks ago and just ordered the two Mosins (seven days can be a long time :eek:).
Might have bought a Ruger Mini 30 instead of the 14, but never see them in a store here-new or used. Must be limited quantity and quite popular.

There is some sort of Ruger Mini 14 website with lots of info, but I only glanced at it. Bought a brand-new 30-round magazine at a store. Pretty sure the package says "ProMag": the bag says "Lifetime warranty". I've not filled it up yet (ammo lasts much longer), but with 4-15 rounds in it has worked fine with about 30-50 total rounds, as good as the dependable the metal 20-round mag which came with the used gun. Sorry to bore you, but this might put things in perspective. Good luck.

retrieverman
February 28, 2008, 06:08 AM
My self defense rifle has been my Blaser R-93 Professional with a 308 Tracker barrel fitted with RAZ sights, but I have a cut down (19") 9.3x62mm barrel that should be here today that will take its place.

My only decision now is do I load it with 270 gr cast bullets or 285 pr PRVI's. Either way, if I shoot someone, they more than likely AREN'T walking away.

mnw42
February 28, 2008, 09:25 AM
9.3x62 mm! Planing on having a rampaging rhino in your house?

Firepower!
February 28, 2008, 10:42 AM
Ignition Override Thank you. However, my concern is that when I try to insert the magazine it does not always sit right where it should. To me there is more room in the magazine housing then the magazine and when I have to insert one I must do it right in terms of straight.

It is unlike any other experience I had with any other rilfe.

JonB
February 28, 2008, 10:54 AM
SD option for me at home is my Glock 20 with 200 gr Black Talon hollow points. 10mm is the way to go. ;-)

sulpak
February 28, 2008, 11:42 AM
I live in southeast asia were the bad guys are armed with full auto rifles and shotgun and they usually would moved in groups of 10-20 men. Sometimes they disguise themselves as Police or Army soldiers.

I stay in the countryside atleast 3 days everyweek and the rest in the city. the nearest town from my farm is 10 kilometers away and for sure if i call in the police, they will arrived the next morning. I bring my family with me everytime i visit my farm. I have AR,AK,SG and m1 carbine, but i prefer bringing the AK47 (7.62x39) with 9pcs 30rnd mags and 2units 9mm pistols with 2 extra mag each. i would bring 600 rounds everytime i go to my farm but due to the bullet weight i just bring the 9 mags.

If i go around the farm i would put my ak inside my backpack and bring my 24"semi shotgun.

Sometimes just thinking about it makes my adrenaline shootup everytime i go to the farm but thats my work and sometimes i like the rush. hehheh

If i am inside the house i just carry my pistol with me, but the moment i leave the confined area of the house i just bring my folded AK. I believe firefights would be from 50-75meters or even less.

Hokkmike
February 28, 2008, 12:17 PM
I liek the AR but reliability is questionable. They are finicky and need to be babied. My first choice for home defense would not be a rifle, but if it had to be, I guess I would pick a large bore .444 marlin, .44 mag, lever action.

My first choice would be a 12 gauge shotgun (as much capacity as I could get) or what I actually use, a .40 S&W semi auto pistol.

Firepower!
February 28, 2008, 12:35 PM
How about 404 Jeffery?
Or
375 H&H magnum rifle?

ziggy222
February 29, 2008, 12:03 AM
i think one of those beretta carbines in 40mm would be an excellent home defence rifle especially if you had a light on it.nothing wrong with a shotgun either.

Cesiumsponge
February 29, 2008, 12:08 AM
I would stick to the 5.56mm. It has been shown to penetrate wall barriers less than pistol rounds which is why we see a huge movement from pistol caliber submachine guns to short barreled carbines in 5.56mm.

Wound channels of 5.56mm in M193 and M855 are most effective at highest velocities inside 100 yards as well. They are particularly nasty, which means it's quite effective at stopping a threat, which is what you want to do in self-defense--stop the threat on your life.

Firepower!
March 13, 2008, 07:29 AM
A rifle round that says 9mm should be used in what rifle?

I say this because a dealer was selling me a rifle that he claimed is 9mm for HD in mountain areas, but he had no bullets and wanted me to wait. But when he got those 9mm bullets they did not fit in this gun, and the had marking something like 8.92 or something x something, a GECADO rifle.

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