[patriot1776]

I recently purchased a CZ-75B and so far have been very pleased with it.

Given that almost everyone on this board agrees that CZs are as reliable and accurate as any other semi-auto out there, what is it about CZs that keep them from catching on with the mainstream? Are they just not as mall ninja "tactical" as USPs or Glocks? :D

(Not a knock on either Glock or HK - I have one of each and they're great guns.)



http://www.czusa.com/_d/pri/1.jpg

God Bless America!

[rugerfreak]

I've heard nothin but good things about CZ's----but every time I look at one in the store--they just seem cheap and crude----its unlikely I'll ever buy one---unless I got a killer deal.

[caz223]

My CZ75s don't shoot well.
They point very well, and shoot very fast at short range, but they fall apart at higher distances.
My sig 228, and 2340 shoot rings around my CZs when I take my time and aim at something over 25 yards away.
For that matter, my H&K and almost all my wheelguns outshoot the CZs. (All except a lonely taurus.)
I still want to shoot the CZ97.

[Ky Larry]

Cz's are not pretty, slick, or hi-tech.They reflect the design ideas of the former Communist Block Nations. They are built to shoot.Period. I once heard someone describe the difference between NATO arms design and Warsaw Pact arms design. We build Swiss watches. The Communists build sledge hammers. Just look at the difference between an M-16 and a AK-47.I don't want to start a flame war but if you want a shooter, get a CZ. If you want to make a fashion statement, get a Sig. FWIW.

[Glockorama]

What the heck are you guy's talkin' about?!? For decades I have read how the CZ is one of the prettiest pistols, with graceful lines and very ergonomic attributes. This is one of the things they are famous for, not to mention being one of the finest fighting handguns out there (remember when Col. Jeff Cooper endorsed it?). For looks, compare a CZ-75 to a Glock or HK (I own all three, by the way), no comparison. And I have never heard of CZ's, of any model, being called "cheap" or "poorly made". I've never had on fail.

[Loaded]

I always thought the Sig was the ugliest duckling of the bunch, except for Glock. But for out of the box reliability I heard the Sig was the winner hands down, and looks be damned!

[Zundfolge]

2 thoughts ...

1: I'd say CZ's HAVE caught on ... everyone and their dog seems to own one :)

2: How can you say this is anything less then georgeous!

http://www.imageseek.com/hakan/albums/customers/CompactBirdseyeAmboin_4.jpg

[goon]

I own a SIG and a CZ-75BD.
I like both, but the truth is that the CZ wins for reliability.
Case in point: I tried some Olympic 9mm once. In the SIG, the rounds misfired about twice out of every magazine. They did fire on the second strike though.
But the CZ has eaten everything I have ever tried in it.
It is a small matter right now. I just have to avoid the use of Olympic ammo in the SIG and it runs great.
But under the right circumstances, the CZ would be better.

[Wildalaska]

Pro:

Well made
Accurate
Reliable
Inexpesive

Con:
To big for most hands
Waaaay too Heavy
Not a High Power

Its sort of what you buy when you cant spring for a SIG or BHP

WildownemandsellemAlaska

[Coronach]

I'd say they've caught on to those in the know. And frankly, if they never go "mainstream," thats excellent. Right now CZ produces a bewildering number of high quality pistols in multiple configurations, for low cost. "Going mainstream" never seems to allow a manufacturer to improve the depth or breadth of their product line like it should...it usully just means they start turning out a lot of the same few pistols, with manufacturing shortcuts designed to incease their bottom line.

The only reason I don't own a CZ is that I just don't really want one. Next year this might change. Who knows?

Mike

[Spot77]

Maybe limited distribution is keeping them from "catching on". There's NO dealer anywhere near me...I agree that they're not the ultimate handgun, but mine goes bang every time I squeeze the trigger, with every type of ammo so far.

I like a heavy gun, and I have big hands so it's a great match for me.

Not too sure about distance shooting. My eyes only let me enjoy shooting out to about 50 or 60 feet and the CZ seems fine out to there.

[Boats]

Its sort of what you buy when you cant spring for a SIG or BHP


I will contest that point on the behalf of "cheap" CZ owners and those who can afford more but refuse on rational grounds, even if you are a dealer Wild. The perception that the CZ is a weapon you settle for is dying with each sale of a CZ.

A CZ-85B is on my short list of must have pistols I haven't gotten around to acquiring yet. I have owned both BHPs and SIGs in the past and I think neither holds up well in comparison to a CZ, especially given the relative price points.

In my hands a BHP is:

A bloody thumb web biter.
The standard mags are 13 rounds as opposed to 15 for the CZ
The trigger needs work, which is almost inexcusable for a trigger that has only one mode of firing.
Needs mag disconnect surgery.
Costs about $150-200 more. I can afford it but won't bother to again.

In my hands the Sig P226 is:

Alloy framed and less materially durable unless one pops even more dough for an ST.
Has a higher bore axis.
Has no slide release worth mentioning and all but requires two handed slingshotting.
Costs about $200-300 more depending on the variant.

Neither is more accurate or reliable. The discerning buyer who could afford any of them really has to ask what more are they getting for their money. Having had both SIGs and BHPs and testing CZs I'm hard pressed to identify what the premium is paying for other than having a "brand name" 9mm, better aftermarket goodies and more refined internal machining. The CZ has no lasers, more limited leather and kydex available and fewer gunsmiths working on it, but it has enough accessories and people who will work on them so that this is not much of a concern.

[Berg01]

I have a Sig P228 and a CZ 75B in .40 S&W; I have had the CZ for about a month, and I have had intermittent feeding problems (FTEs) which I had thought were break-in related, but the problem persisted through 800 rounds. I thought that it might be the Winchester white box ammo, which some on the CZ forum have said should be avoided. Mike the head gunsmith at CZ, denied that the CZs had a problem feeding win whitebox. Turns out the extractor was out of tension, due to the fact that the extractor spring had wedged itself out of position from its "pocket" in the side of the slide, so CZ supplied me with a new, bigger extractor spring, which i replaced, and it seems like the feeding problems may be resolved.

The CZ also had minor problems with the recoil spring guide rod, where the plating was starting to peel and flake off, and one of the (10-rd. MecGar) mag springs was defective (too many coils), which made it a PITA to load 10, so I returned these to CZ for replacement. BTW, the gunsmiths at CZ (Mike and CJ) are excellent, very helpful and cooperative.

In @3000 rounds I have had to replace 1 lost grip screw on the Sig P228; otherwise it has been near flawless, and the only minor problems were the fault of the shooter.

I think the CZ has the potential to be a good range gun, it is accurate, fits my hand well and it balances nicely. But the early feeding problems make me wary of using it for carry until I have proven to myself that the feeding problems are resolved. But I have no qualms carrying the Sig instead. Just my $0.02; YMMV.

[Keith]

CZ's didn't become generally available until the wall went down in 91. Not long after they geared up and began exporting, the 10 round mag limits had come in and buyers started looking to .40's and 45's instead of high-cap 9mm's. The market changed.

Basically, when 9mm's were all the rage, you couldn't get a CZ. now that you can get a CZ, you have settle for 10 rounds or look to after-market mags that are doubtful as far as reliablity goes.

The CZ is a victim of bad timing.

Keith

[Wildalaska]

Boats

Tastes great
Less filling


WildonelinersAlaska:D

[George Hill]

http://www.madogre.com/images/sbt_czs.jpg

CZ's are ugly? What are you talking about?

[Zundfolge]

I'm sorry George, but I don't see any guns in that pic you just posted.

:what:

[Keith]

It's just amazing what they can do with Kevlar nowadays!

Keith

[PCRCCW]

CZ's dont shoot well at long distances? Hmmm strange. Ive never heard of a gun that shoots well at 25 yds and then the accuracy just falls apart from there. IMPOSSIBLE......or theoretically so.

My SA and every report of the 97's that Ive read, shoot as well as most 1000$ guns do. Outa the box they will group around 1" at 25 yds.........
Ive seen a couple of guys do it with my SA.....just because the gun out shoots me :D

CZ's have caught on but its a slow process...its not a new mousetrap like Glock was reputed for when the tuperware wave was in full swing.....

You have a basic, classic and functional gun...these take a while to get going......but they dont go away when they have caught on either.

Its like a Honda sport bike compared to other bikes of similar guise.......
They dont get glowing reports of "its the bike of the century"..but NOONE finds fault with them, seeming to do everything very well and they sell like wild fire...................

Shoot well

[rick newland]

After I retired from the Air Force in Germany I worked for three years for the security company that has the contract for the Army bases in Germany. The issue pistol is the CZ-75B. Each guard had to shoot every other month for practice and once a year for qualifaction. I was the assistant pistol trainer for the guards at Miesau ammo storage area. In three years at being at the range I think I only remember two malfunctions with the CZ-75 and I would guess that those were shooter induced. I have alot of respect for these pistols and why I own a 75 and 85.

[Pilot]

I own many firearms including an HK P7M8, Walther P-5. Sig 228, and BHP's. What do I carry and shoot the most? A CZ-75 PCR and a CZ-75B. Why? They are accurate, reliable and very well made. I still use the other pistols, it just seems I carry the PCR and the 75B more.

[Shane]

I've heard nothin but good things about CZ's----but every time I look at one in the store--they just seem cheap and crude----its unlikely I'll ever buy one---unless I got a killer deal.

That is exactly what most of my recent Ruger purchases have been like. Cheap, and crude. Lots of tool marks, badly fit parts (terrible play in the slide to frame fit especially), and mediocre finish--both externally AND internally. Rugers work well though, which is the main thing. I still buy Rugers for the price and for the fact that they work well despite the fit and finish shortcomings.

I'll agree on the internals of CZs--the internal areas of the slide (non critical areas mainly that don't affect function) are very rough with lots of tool marks--the internal work of the slide looks very cheaply done IMO. However, the exterior finish and fit is very good, much better than any Ruger I have, and surprising pretty much on par with most Sigs. This includes the frame to slide fit--on both CZs I have they are MUCH tighter than my Sigs.

To sum up my opinions, I've been very happy with the external workmanship on my CZs, but I AM disapointed with the very sloppy internal work. Since it doesn't affect function, and I only have to look at the slop when I disasemble it, it won't necessarily encourage me to no longer buy CZs.

[Shane]

My CZ75s don't shoot well.
They point very well, and shoot very fast at short range, but they fall apart at higher distances.

Using a rest, I get very good groups with my CZ 97B out to 25 yards. Admittingly, I've never shot the 97 PAST 25 yards though--in fact I RARELY shoot ANY handgun past 25 yards. The exception being long barreled revolvers, which I've occasionally shot at 40-50 yards. I just don't have the eyesight to hit past 25 yards with a pistol that has a relatively short sight radius.

My 75 is not as accurate as the 97, but its still right up there with most any other pistol up to the 20-25 yard mark.

[Sven]

CZs haven't caught on because they don't use those models George posted enough in their ads!

Also, because not enough people have purchased Hakan grips for their CZs:




http://www.imageseek.com/hakan/albums/cz75/Flameamboin24.thumb.jpg

Hakan's Custom Stocks (http://www.imageseek.com/hakan)

I love Hakan's grips - they make my CZ75 even _more_ ergnomic. Had a 2" 10 shot group today - offhand at 15 yards - using my CZ 75B (1999 manufacture) with S&B 115 grain ammo. Love that gun, love those grips.

[agtman]

I think CZs are very affordable, high-quality pistols - much better than the Tanfaglio Witness line.

But Keith makes a good point. The 9mm CZs really hit the market after the 10-rd mag limit kicked in. Yeah, the 9mm CZ hi-cap mags are still around, but prices have climbed.

CZ went to the .40S&W only recently with their 75B, and then into .45acp with the 97B - both large, all-steel 10-rd propositions. Unfortunately, CZ doesn't offer a similar pistol in 10mm Auto, thus leaving those wanting a CZ-style DA/SA pistol chambered in this potent caliber to the mediocre hit-n-miss Witness.

:banghead:

However, the .40 and .45 CZs haven't been out there that long. Now, with their compact 9mm decocker model, CZ appears interested in making forays into the American LE market (for undercover/offduty/back-up gun use). And it obviously has civilian CCW applications too.

[faustulus]

I guess it is funny but I always thought of CZ as one of the world's top pistol makers. Cheaper yeah but so is labor in the Czech republic. Accuracy and reliablity are top notch, and it doesn't weigh anymore than a 1911.

[Dr.Rob]

Never caught on? What planet do you live on?

CZ's and their clones were the bees knees in the law enforcement world before Glock started thier aggressive marketing campaign.

CZ makes good stuff. Period.

[10-Ring]

I would think that after a page plus of guys saying CZ's have caught on, that it's pretty obvious they've caught on...:)

[Rob96]

The problem I had with CZ's, is that I can't hit disengage the thumb safety without changing my grip.

[Daniel T]

I had a CZ-75B. It gave me FTF problems, before and after I installed a heavier recoil spring. the failures also occured on both the 10 rd. and 15 rd mags I got with the gun. The trigger was uncomfortable, and the gun always seemed to shoot too low from POA. So I sold it.

Having said all that, a CZ-97B is high on my list of guns I have to have. :)

[Prodigalshooter]

I have a CZ 75 and a 97, both are reliable with a capital R, both shoot way better than me and together cost about the same as my Sig or my 1911. But they sure don't look or feel cheap to me, they're just the killer bargin pistols out there, that also happen to be a quality product. Of course, YMMV etc.;)

[JohnBT]

I'm always late to the party...I figured they'd caught on when I bought a 75B Military three years ago.

Now that I've gone and bought a .22 WMR American I have absolutely no use for I know they're mainstream. I bought it for the stock - really nice figured wood end to end and matched on both sides. Shoots good too, but so far the only rig I've had to put on it was a Weaver T-36 in BKL mounts. :)

John

[CZF]

CZs are guns Americans buy after playing around with the
higher priced guns. They then see how well they perform,
and ask WHY did i spend so much more money on the SIG
or Glock??

CZ does everything you need a gun to do. Reliable to the
extreme, and more accurate than the shooter.

That people in this country overlook CZs are "cheap
commie guns" is too bad. Bad for them, good for us
that love Cee-Zeds:)

[Majic]

The CZ was built as a military firearm for the former Communist Bloc countries, and it's performance shows as military firearms are used and abused but keep working.
As far as not catching on, back when they came out Canada did a booming import/export business getting every CZ-75 they could get their hands on for the USA. The prices were high, but every one sold like hotcakes. Because of this several countries jumped on the bandwagon producing clones. Leading the way was England and Italy. When the Iron Curtain came down there was a big surplus of CZ-75's and that's when the price drastically dropped on them.
The term "Wondernine" was coined for the CZ as it stood head and shoulders above the rest of the market. The CZ led the way for ergonomics that so many makers strive for today. With a steel grip frame complete with panels, no other pistol came close till the Susie Homemaker tupperware models hit the shelves.

You may have just found out about it, but it has been a highly reconized and sought after pistol since the late 70's.

[Rob96]

Hate to burst your bubble there CZF,but CZ's are not what Americans turn too after playing with the high priced guns. The CZ's controls are definetly not for everyone. The pistol is heavy for a 9mm. There is not as much slide to grab onto because the slide rides inside the frame, and it is not always reliable. The CZ I had had a problem with 147gr loads because of the length of the round, also after 100 rounds or so it would develop failures to feed. This was with 115gr and 124gr ammo, all of which feeds fine in my Glock. Around here people handle CZ's at the shop, but they don't buy. You can see the same gun sit in the case for months. Maybe it is a location thing. Around here Glocks and 1911's sell.

[pistolwhipped]

The CZ PCR fits my hand as well as any handgun I own. I've got Hakan's on the way. Looking forward to that.

[wbond]

a

[wbond]

I love the CZs, especially the CZ-83.

The commies were great gun makers and specialized in unisex guns because they had both men and women in uniform.

That means handguns and cartridges that are managable for women and men with enough power to get it done shooting through heavy winter clothing in 9x18. Since now also available in .380 ACP and always in .32 ACP this offers more recoil-power options for recoil sensitive people like me. .380 is enough shooting through light summer clothing.

The problem that CZ and other commy and former commy products have is that the commies and former commies have ZERO marketing and sales experience or talent. Eastern Europeans with those talents were lined up against walls and shot 50 to 70 years ago, or escaped to the USA (like Sikorsky as in helicopters). Also, no movie action heroes (James Bond, Dirty Harry, etc) use CZs onscreen.

Lack of marketing skills is the problem in a nutshell with why the CZ isn't more popular than it is. The former commies are very new to marketing, sales, and other capitalist talents. They are old hands at gun making though.

Whatever popularity CZ has is based entirely on it's true merits, not because James Bond or Clint Eastwood used it in a movie, or because some sexy babe (Angelin Jolee) pulled it from her lovely thigh.

If the former commies can ever develope good capitalist pig skills like sales and marketing, they will thrive. At least until some idiot like Billy Clinton bans their products.

Rant over.

[IndianaDean]

CZs are too large, which to me is a poor design on any gun. If I grip any CZ properly, the tip of my trigger finger can barely reach the trigger. I don't understand why designers put the triggers so far forward. If it weren't for that, I think they'd be more popular. Even the new little CZ RAMI is has a trigger too far forward for me to use.

[borodin]

Well I am now on my 6th CZ and they have all felt better in my hand than any other.

As for you goobers talking about Hi-cap mags.....everytime I order a new CZ i get the hi-caps straight from CZ-USA in the box.

The ABSOLUTE sweetest trigger I have every had a finger on is my CZ-83.

When the Fascist Republic of the USA comes to take my guns....my P-01 will be what they pry out of my cold dead hands.:evil:

[kart racer]

I just bought a pcr used today w/xs night sites for 325.00.I took it apart to clean it,there are no machine marks,fit and finish is better than many guns much higher priced.The double action pull is a little heavy,single action is great.Can't speak for reliability,but hopefully this weekend will be able to put several hundred rds thru it.That being said,the mags seem cheaper made than my croatian made xd.All in all it appears to be a good gun for the money,but can't say until it's reliabilty is proven.

[drannor]

I love my CZs, I own a 75SA, 75B with factory red-dot and a 97B. I sold my 75BD when I realized the 75 addiction was getting out of hand.

The 75SA, in my hands, outshoots every autoloader I've ever owned aside from my GoldMatch. That includes the P226 Sport SL, P226, P220, P225, 92FS, G20, USP, BHP and a host of others that I've traded away or sold over the years. The CZ just points well for me. My biggest complaints are the sights (small) and the damn plastic trigger on the SA which is easily remedied with a metal champion trigger.

It took a couple days of my time and $$$ worth of cylinder and slide parts to clean up my BHP's trigger and action before it even approached the 75SA. The lifter / sear lever design of the BHP has always seemed odd to me. So the CZ not being a BHP is a postive to me.

I heavily recommend the 75B as a first pistol for people that want an inexpensive, reliable and accurate high capacity autoloader.

The 97 is a blast to shoot, but it's BIG. The design begs for a 10mm variant. :)

[kbheiner7]

CZs, SIGs and Glocks are all the same to me - undeniably good guns, but just too darn ugly to spend money on. :evil:

[GregGry]

CZs are too large, which to me is a poor design on any gun. If I grip any CZ properly, the tip of my trigger finger can barely reach the trigger. I don't understand why designers put the triggers so far forward. If it weren't for that, I think they'd be more popular. Even the new little CZ RAMI is has a trigger too far forward for me to use.

I am happy for the fact they are large. Having big hands and very long fingers, makes it hard to find pistols that fit properly. The CZ97B is one of the very few pistols that fit my hand well. Most 9mm pistols are too small for comfort as well, it seems a general rule amoung firearms is if they are chambered for 9mm is that everything about the pistol must be small. the CZ 9mm is pretty decent for me however. If I were to call all the pistols that don't fit my hand a poor design, I would have a list longer then I would care to write. Its good that you don't like them because of their size though, that means there are more for me and other big handed people :D

[Danus ex]

I am happy for the fact they are large. Having big hands and very long fingers, makes it hard to find pistols that fit properly. The CZ97B is one of the very few pistols that fit my hand well. Most 9mm pistols are too small for comfort as well, it seems a general rule amoung firearms is if they are chambered for 9mm is that everything about the pistol must be small. the CZ 9mm is pretty decent for me however. If I were to call all the pistols that don't fit my hand a poor design, I would have a list longer then I would care to write. Its good that you don't like them because of their size though, that means there are more for me and other big handed people :D

Goes to show how hit-and-miss ergonomics really are. I'm much more like the first guy--holding a BHP and a CZ75 simultaneously quickly revealed the better pistol for me (BHP). I don't even get bitten with a spur hammer (the ring hammer will bite me occasionally).

To anyone agonizing over a gun decision--go hold the darn guns!

[IndianaDean]

[QUOTEIts good that you don't like them because of their size though, that means there are more for me and other big handed people :D[/QUOTE]

That's cool. I shoot .45s most of the time anyway, so have at the CZs!

[hkusp]

Pros:
*Grip - Fits like a glove especially with the rubber grip panels
*SA Trigger - Not the best, but damn good, and getting better
*Controls - All in the right place.
*Fit - Very tight frame / slide / barrel
*Accurate - Offhand and Rested
*Recoil - Very fast shooting
*Finish - Love the Polycoat
*Solid Build - If you don't shoot the BG, you can sure beat them down with this gun
*Price - CHEAP!!!
*Marketing - As long as the Marketing sux the price will stay down. Best marketing CZ has is shooters at the range. Since I started shooting CZ, others at my range had to get one.
*Cash - I have alot more of it now that I've sold off my other guns
*19+1 rounds of 124gr +P Speer GD on hand

Cons:
*Interior slide tool marks - Those have no affect on anything, so it's a nit pick
*DA Trigger - Sux hard and is long. Also a nit pick if you carry C&L
*Tight camber - May FTF longer rounds of the 124gr or 147gr variety
*Availability - Had to wait to get my two SP-01's from Angus
*All the other great guns out there. CZ is not the end all of guns for everyone. For me it is, but YMMV.

[Shane333]

Good comments Wbond. I have a CZ83 too, and absolutely love it. It is surprisingly comfortable to shoot for a blowback, handles very naturally for me, I can carry it cocked and locked or hammer down depending on my preference, etc.

I agree with Wildalaska. The grip of the CZ75 is simply too big for people like me who don't have big hands. I would really like to get a CZ75, but I have to shift my grip so much to reach the safety that the CZ75 would be unpractical for any use other than a range gun.:(

The PCR grip feels a little better, but is still big.

If they'd just slim down their grip I think the CZ75 would appeal to more people.

[hkusp]

Good comments Wbond. I have a CZ83 too, and absolutely love it. It is surprisingly comfortable to shoot for a blowback, handles very naturally for me, I can carry it cocked and locked or hammer down depending on my preference, etc.

I agree with Wildalaska. The grip of the CZ75 is simply too big for people like me who don't have big hands. I would really like to get a CZ75, but I have to shift my grip so much to reach the safety that the CZ75 would be unpractical for any use other than a range gun.:(

The PCR grip feels a little better, but is still big.

If they'd just slim down their grip I think the CZ75 would appeal to more people.

What? Not many double stack 9mm's out there with slimmer grips than CZ. Yes, some, but not many.

[Northslope Nimrod]

I find that true gun enthusiasts love CZ's. The others just haven't heard of them.
Also, they are not American and/or do not have an American name associated with them. For instance, many people will buy a Chevy over a Toyota or a Dodge over a Mitsubishi...even though the car is the same. (ie: Stealth & 3000).

For me, I like 'em! I also think they are pretty. Their satin nickel models are SWEEEET!!! PLEASE make me a Satin Nickel PCR!!!

[Marshall]

Don't settle for a 75B, get a FN/BHP. Should be a motto or something. :p

I think the CZ's are good guns and popular, just not quite a household name yet.

The P-O1, the PCR's, 97's and 83's, I like. Even the 85 Combat I like because of the configuration. As for the 75's, like Wild, I say go FN/BHP. It doesn't get any better. ;)




http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c274/bunnfuzz/dcp_0588.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c274/bunnfuzz/dcp_0593.jpg

[Rob96]

My problem with the CZ, is that my thumb can't hit the safety.

[Moonclip]

They have never caught on with the general shooting public for most of the reasons already mentioned. THR is not a good gauge of how popular something is with the general population or casual shooter as there tends to be a more hardcore group of people in to shooting here I'd say and more informed than the average Joe looking to buy his first pistol.

In my experience talking to people at ranges and seing whats being shot, CZ's aren't exactly well known except from those that had exposure to them in foreign countries or because they just bought one from the local gun shop because they were cheaper than other brands and they are usually pleased with the gun.

Sad to say though too, but sometimes people base their purchases on what they see on TV and movies and hear about in rap and CZ's seem absent from these forms of entertainment usually.

[GoArmy]

How about the PO1? Any reviews out on it yet?

[Shane333]

What? Not many double stack 9mm's out there with slimmer grips than CZ. Yes, some, but not many.

How about the BHP? I seem to remember the grip not being so big.

[hkusp]

How about the BHP? I seem to remember the grip not being so big.

BHP and CZ are pretty close in grip. At least from what my eyes and hands tell me.

[Northslope Nimrod]

True! BHP has a smaller grip for my small hands! BUT they are more money and you must like SA only. I love my BHP....but I also want a PCR.

[Stiletto Null]

Probably the same reason that people still buy pre-built computers.

Lack of education.

[kentucky_smith]

shoo, you'll make the prices go up. :uhoh:

[ArmedBear]

CZ's are pretty popular around here.

The Glock-heads still buy Glocks, but that's because they haven't heard of anything else.

[1832]

I bought a CZ 85 Combat about two years ago. It was the first CZ I ever handled and I liked the feel of it. When I saw the price, I had to buy it.

I have many handguns, Glocks, Sigs, Kahrs, 1911s and wheelguns, but the CZ is the only one that goes to the range with me every time.

[Ash]

After having used many different handguns, from the 1911 to BHP, Colt Trooper Mk III to Rugers, I have settled on the CZ. I have one B 75, two Pre B's, a CZ-85 Compact .40, a CZ-40P, and a CZ-82 (not to mention the CZ-50 and CZ-52 just for kicks) and even an EAA Witness .45. My hands are small enough I can't palm a basketball. Yet I find the DA trigger reach no problem. The grip is what first sold me on the CZ design, followed by the utter reliability I have experienced. Let's face it, the Glock (which I don't care for), the SIG, quality 1911 manufacturers, Steyr, Browning/FN, all make a quality product.

The CZ has rougher interior, but complaining about that is kinda like complaining about the crap in a cow's butt. It makes no difference when you are going for ribeye. It's like griping about the casting marks on the intake manifold on a Jeep Cherokee (or a Hummer). It doesn't affect its off road capability one bit. It's like griping about the unpainted interior of a computer case. The processor doesn't care a bit.

They haven't become utterly mainstream because Tommy Lee Jones doesn't tell you to get rid of that nickel plated sissy pistol and get a CZ, and the US Army doesn't issue it, or Agent Smith/Neo/Morpheus don't use them (okay, they did use the Skorpion, but not a 75), Bruce Willis doesn't pop terrorists with one, and your favorite urban musician doesn't know what it is.

But in my area, CZ' s have a great amount of respect (their rifles as well).

Ash

[marklbucla]

CZs have caught on with the forum folks, but I have never seen another CZ at the range besides the ones in my case. They just don't get the exposure in the media that the Berettas, Glocks, Sigs, and 1911s do so people are probably not familiar with them.

Of the 10 or so handguns that I've owned, the only ones I haven't regretted buying were the CZs. Well, I can't entirely say that cuz I wish I didn't buy so many of them. :D

[wbond]

I have long fingers and the CZ-83 fits me perfectly. Most .32 ACP, .380 ACP, .32 Mag, and .38 Spec. snubby handguns don't fit because my fingers are too long. The CZ-83 is perfect for my hand. I also like the heavier weight to dampen recoil. My hand is held together by 4 screws, so I need less recoil. The point is, to each his own. I'll buy your share of CZ-83s. You buy whatever you like. Live and let live.

CZs are too large, which to me is a poor design on any gun. If I grip any CZ properly, the tip of my trigger finger can barely reach the trigger. I don't understand why designers put the triggers so far forward. If it weren't for that, I think they'd be more popular. Even the new little CZ RAMI is has a trigger too far forward for me to use.

[Marnoot]

How about the PO1? Any reviews out on it yet? I should hope so, it's been out for almost 5 years!:p But seriously, My CZ P-01 is by far the most comfortable handgun I've ever held or fired, and I don't have large hands by any stretch of the imagination. Fit and finish is great, hasn't hicupped on a single round since I bought it 2 years ago, and I've fired a good 1500 rounds through it; several different brands including reloads, no problems. As previously mentioned, how a gun fits your hand is going to vary from person to person.
Frankly I couldn't care less if there's some machining marks in an unseen area where there is no contact with other parts. I don't see it, it doesn't affect function, eliminating those marks costs the end user $$$ one way or the other. Areas of operation are smoothly machined.
If someone wants to shell out $200 extra to guarantee there won't be machining marks in non-functional, unseen areas they'll only see when they're cleaning, more power to them. But I'd rather spend that money on ammo! That said, there really aren't even any rough areas in either my P-01, or my 452 rifle.

[Walt Sherrill]

Generally speaking, the reason CZs haven't caught on MORE, is simple: marketing budgets.

CZ is, comparatively speaking, a smaller company with a limited advertizing budget -- and is still learning how to sell in the U.S.

They seem to be learning fast, and have introduced a number of interesting guns over the past severals years... probably more than the other major gun makers combined.

They're getting there.

[wheelgunslinger]

I stood in a Gun Shop last year and compared the CZ75 with the Ruger P345.
They both fit my big meathooks just fine. They both looked great. The Ruger shot .45 auto and the CZ shot .40. The salesman said "The CZ has a smaller slide and is harder to cock." I left with the Ruger and regretted it for the first several hundred dollars worth of .45 auto ammo I used beta testing it for Ruger. That weapon SUCKED.
(edit: Ruger stands ready to fix any weapon that malfunctions free of charge. I was, unfortunately, caught in a life risking situation when my Ruger malfunctioned and no longer use their autoloaders.)
CZ now has all of my business when it come to brass pukers. Their weapons are easily upgradable for durability, have a pleasant feel, and work like they need the money.
I don't need to spend several hundred dollars more to be a brand/model whore when I get what I need out of Czeska Zbrojovka. Though I'm sure all the other guys make good stuff too.
CZ makes great stuff. It might catch on here. But, then, the metric system hasn't, so I don't know what to tell you. :rolleyes:

[Ash]

Folks who wish to convert to the metric system, as nice as it might be to be more on par with the rest of the world, cannot imagine the trouble re-surveying the entire nation, which is already survedy by the square mile, the tracts of land sold in the same way, and the vast, seemingly infinite numbers of legal descriptions of land in every courthouse in the nation that would have to be thrown out and re-written. If you were to order a change to the metric system, it would take more than 50 years and billions upon billions of dollars to do the work of the last 400 years of activity here.

Ash

[Atticus]

People who are familiar with CZ's and their reputation, usually like and trust them. People who aren't, hear or read "Czech Republic" and move on the German, Swiss, or Mur-i-cun guns. I have a 75B mil and will likely never part ways with it...unless I sell it to buy a different CZ. The pistol is large and the trigger is suited to longer fingers (which I have). I find that the pad of my index finger naturally rests where it should and it points like a High Power.

[McCall911]

I've been very fond of CZ-75s ever since I got to handle one back in the early 90s, when it was considered "exotic from Czechoslovakia." It had just the right feel for my long, widish hands and had a decent double-action trigger pull. Unfortunately, I couldn't come near the $650 asking price that was on the sticker. :eek:

So maybe it's too early for the CZ to have caught on, but as long as the company keeps up the quality, I don't think they can go anywhere but up. In the meantime, those of us who know the pistols get to enjoy great weapons at hard-to-beat prices.

[JohnBT]

"Probably the same reason that people still buy pre-built computers.

Lack of education."


HA! Educated is when you wise up enough to go play and let somebody else do your work. I'd rather go shooting or hunting or fishing and hire somebody to build mine. The same guy has built my last three. We discuss what I want briefly and then I drive over and pick it up two or three days later. Runs about $100-$125 over the cost of the parts.

I don't do tune-ups or change my own oil anymore either.

John

[George Hill]

How about the PO1? Any reviews out on it yet?
http://www.concealedcarrymag.com/Sample_Article_04.pdf

[armoredman]

Wow, holy ressurected thread, Batman!
I worked in a gunshop, and as a range officer, have qualified for several differant agencies and employers with differant weapons, and have had the entire resources of a rental range, and the used gun shelf, to play with. If it was made 4 years ago, when I left, chances are not bad that I fired it. Out of everything I shot, there were a few pistols that stood out - the rental SiG P220, and anything made by CZ....
My sidearm is a CZ75 PO1, and it's the best I've found.

[George Hill]

Amen to that.

[Average Joe]

We are trying to keep it a secret, so the prices don't go up.

[wbond]

I want the prices to go up AFTER I've bought a few more.

We are trying to keep it a secret, so the prices don't go up.

[harrydog]

Their weapons are easily upgradable for durability...
What do you mean by that?

[wheelgunslinger]

I mean that people who want farckles like more durable guide rods and stuff like that can do so very easily when they purchase models like the CZ 75b. Jackash makes a guide rod to replace the stock one. Which, btw, isn't subpar. Some just prefer a beefier one, the same way some people prefer to get groceries with a 30 foot long diesel SUV.

[XLMiguel]

My PCR is on par with my SIG 228 in almost every respect. It has been 100% reliable from day one, it's accurate, has a good trigger and good ergonomics in general. I also think it's a nice looking pistol with good fit and finish.

I purchased std cap (14 rnd) mags from CZ USA for $37 each a couple months after eh AWB lapsed. Not great, but certainly no worse than what SIG or HK charges for factory mags.

CZ's cheap, shoddy, and inaccurate? Not in my experience.

[Litlman]

I have 3 CZ's , 75 BD, Gompact and an 85 combat. I just like them and the all run and are accurate. I want to get a PO1 and an 83. I also have a line on a BHP, but that is another story.

[Redhat]

What they need to do is jack the price up to 7 or $800 then folks will think wow!!! What a pistol. With the price so low, I'll bet lots of people think it has to be a cheapo gun.

Of course I can say that as I already have mine!

[The_Shootist]

Anybody have any experience with the .45 model? I've been thinking of a DA .45 for awhile know (I already have a 1911) but have narrowed the field to a G30/P220 or the CZ.

[MachIVshooter]

CZ went to the .40S&W only recently with their 75B, and then into .45acp with the 97B - both large, all-steel 10-rd propositions. Unfortunately, CZ doesn't offer a similar pistol in 10mm Auto, thus leaving those wanting a CZ-style DA/SA pistol chambered in this potent caliber to the mediocre hit-n-miss Witness.



I don't think it's fair to label the witness as mediocre. Perhaps when one compares them to a four-figure pistol, but they are a whole lot of gun for the money in the $300 arena. I have a compact 10mm and my only gripe is that the factory compact magazines lack sufficient spring power to reliably engage the slide stop. This was easily fixed by removing the springs from my nuetered 10 round Beretta 92 mags and installing them in the Witness mags. The gun now runs flawlessly (except with nuclear 200 grain loads, which slam the small slide a bit too hard). My next 10mm will be either the Witness Hunter or the Stock custom (if EAA starts importing it as they say they will)

As to the others who have said the CZ's are ugly::confused: , especially those who would say they favor a Hi-Power to the witness:confused: :confused: The two bear a striking resemblance to one another.

[Walt Sherrill]

Re: Witness.

Their problems have been customer service, which *MIGHT* be getting better.

I've got several Witnesses, and they're pretty good guns. And they have some of the best values in a 10mm available.

I prefer CZs, but Witnesses are OK.

[harrydog]

What they need to do is jack the price up to 7 or $800 then folks will think wow!!! What a pistol. With the price so low, I'll bet lots of people think it has to be a cheapo gun.


I think you've got a valid point there.

[armoredman]

I think you've got a valid point there.
Unfortunately. Lemme get another couple of CZs before you do that, OK?

[wbond]

I now own two in each caliber in blue.

I'd like to repeat this feat with two of each caliber in nickel, but that will be much more difficult.

Getting .380 nickel will be easy.

Getting 9x18 nickel is not easy, but I've got that lined up.

How can I get one or two in .32 ACP nickel?

Has anyone ever heard of a CZ-83 in .32 ACP Nickel?

If anyone has ever seen or heard of a CZ-83 in .32 Nickel, please let me know by private message. If you also want to post your answer too, that's fine also.

I'm not very reliable about checking discussions for others' replies. That's why I requested a private message. I ALWAYS check my private messages within a week or sooner.

Thanks much.

[jdwhealton]

CZs are ugly....don't shoot well....come on guys. poppoppop :neener:

http://members.cox.net/jdwhealton/jimbo1.jpg