Obama Claims He Supports Individual Gun Rights


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The Sheriff
February 15, 2008, 02:58 PM
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5isOFwdbq0tsqatW6vJpkDRTI1gMgD8UQTAS80

Obama Supports Individual Gun Rights
By NEDRA PICKLER – 1 hour ago

MILWAUKEE (AP) — Barack Obama said Friday that the country must do "whatever it takes" to eradicate gun violence following a campus shooting in his home state, but he believes in an individual's right to bear arms.

Obama said he spoke to Northern Illinois University's president Friday morning by phone and offered whatever help his Senate office could provide in the investigation and improving campus security. The Democratic presidential candidate spoke about the Illinois shooting to reporters while campaigning in neighboring Wisconsin.

The senator, a former constitutional law instructor, said some scholars argue the Second Amendment to the Constitution guarantees gun ownerships only to militias, but he believes it grants individual gun rights.

"I think there is an individual right to bear arms, but it's subject to commonsense regulation" like background checks, he said during a news conference.

He said he would support federal legislation based on a California law that would facilitate immediate tracing of bullets used in a crime. He said even though the California law was passed over the strong objection of the National Rifle Association, he thinks it's the type of law that gun owners and crime victims can get behind.

Five people, including the shooter, were killed during Thursday's ambush inside a lecture hall. Authorities said the two guns used were purchased legally less then a week ago.

"Today we offer them our thoughts and prayers, but we also have to offer them our determination to do whatever it takes to eradicate this violence from our streets, from our schools, from our neighborhoods and our cities," Obama said. "That is our duty as Americans."

Although Obama supports gun control, while campaigning in gun-friendly Idaho earlier this month, he said he does not intend to take away people's guns.

At his news conference, he voiced support for the District of Columbia's ban on handguns, which is scheduled to be heard by the Supreme Court next month.

"The notion that somehow local jurisdictions can't initiate gun safety laws to deal with gang bangers and random shootings on the street isn't born out by our Constitution," Obama said.

:barf:

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BattleChimp Potemkin
February 15, 2008, 03:01 PM
Yeah, it made me heave too! The article seemed like, "hey, this guys isnt THAT bad!" Until you got to the end.

mordechaianiliewicz
February 15, 2008, 03:05 PM
Obama is our enemy on this issue. All there is to it.

He has said multiple times he would like the ban ALL semi-autos (yes, all however many million weapons out there). He has supported every gun control bill presented to him, every chance he got.

He also is a big fan of international control of guns.

Don't think of being fooled. He's a gun grabber.

physics
February 15, 2008, 03:15 PM
He also wants Ex-leo and military to be the only ones with concealed carry rights.

BattleChimp Potemkin
February 15, 2008, 03:16 PM
Well, when I first read the article, I thought, well, he's racing back from the extreme left to the center to win votes, but I then read his past voting history (the boring stuff you find on the congressional website, I only get my info from direct source, not biased media). Yuck! But, I do dream of a day when six shooters are the only guns and a time when cattledrives roamed the plains...Romantic Garbage...Why cant things be simpler?

Slappy McGee
February 15, 2008, 03:20 PM
I don't understand how a CA law that allows "immediate tracing of bullets used in a crime" would help the recent school shooting, where there is a dead guy lying there with a self-inflicted wound and 40 people that saw him do it.

esq_stu
February 15, 2008, 03:23 PM
As a liberal, he'll probably let us have the right to keep and bear all the gun porn we want.:neener:

highlander 5
February 15, 2008, 03:23 PM
A he's a politician B he's from Chicago and C He'd probably throw his mother under a bus to get elected POTUS if he thought it'd work.

Cosmoline
February 15, 2008, 03:24 PM
Looks like Cthulhu is getting my vote again.

Jim K
February 15, 2008, 03:25 PM
Obama has always been Chicago Mayor Daley's hand puppet. No matter what he says, he favors a ban (with searches and confiscation) on semi-automatic guns and all handguns. Is he a liar? Is he a politician? The questions answer themselves.

Jim

TT
February 15, 2008, 03:27 PM
Some years back a couple of Democratic strategists wrote a paper detailing how Democratic politicians could deal with the problems they were having with gun owners/voters by proclaiming they supported the Second Amendment while continuing to quietly work to restrict/eliminate gun ownership for self-defense. It appears someone in Obamaís crew read it and took it to heart. I think itís a smart play for their side; itís going to take hard work on our part to counter it.

walking arsenal
February 15, 2008, 03:31 PM
Looks like Cthulhu is getting my vote again.

I didn't know he was running again this year.

dogbaloo
February 15, 2008, 03:34 PM
While I have a problem with an individual who believes in "gun control", I REALLY have an issue with anyone in a national leadership position who believes that lives can be saved, and crime carnage averted by simply making it more difficult for law abiding citizens to buy guns. That's such a horrible miscalculation that I wonder what else they miss on?

patentmike
February 15, 2008, 03:43 PM
Ah, the audacity of hope:
I can envision laws, like the ones in DC, that will eradicate gun violence, unlike the similar laws in Illinois, which make sure that the only guns in public are in the hands of pyschos.

ctdonath
February 15, 2008, 03:58 PM
All collectivists support "individual" rights - insofar as they match the goals of the collective. They do not see any conflict, as they cannot see individualism as anything other than subject to the collective - or in criminal opposition thereof.

ilbob
February 15, 2008, 04:09 PM
Obama could well believe what he is really is pro 2A. Liberals believe all kinds of goofy things.

The Sheriff
February 15, 2008, 04:16 PM
Obama, Clinton support for right to bear arms

But both call for common-sense changes in gun laws
By CRAIG GILBERT
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
cgardner@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Feb. 15, 2008.

In the wake of the shooting at Northern Illinois University, Democratis presidential candidates Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton both called Friday for what they said were common-sense changes in the gun laws, while declaring their support for the right to bear arms.

At a press conference before a rally at the Midwest Center in downtown Milwaukee, Obama said the nation has to "get a handle on all the violence that's been taking place and ... do a more effective job of enforcing our gun laws, strengthening our background check system, being able to trace guns that are used in violent crimes ... (and) close the gun show loopholes."

But asked about gun rights, Obama said, "I believe the Second Amendment means something." Weighing in on a long-running debate among scholars, Obama said he believes the Constitution confers on individuals the right to bear arms, and was not intended by the framers to simply provide for militias. The senator once taught constitutional law.

"There is an individual right to bear arms. But it's subject to common sense regulation, just like most of our rights are subject to common sense regulations," said Obama.

In an interview with the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Friday, Clinton was asked whether the shootings in Illinois were a reason to revisit the gun laws.

"I do support lifting the prohibitions on local law enforcement being able to track guns to gun dealers who have a record of selling guns without appropriate oversight.... I do support closing the gun show loophole. I support reinstating the assault-weapons ban," Clinton said in the interview.

"I believe strongly people have the right to own and bear arms under the Second Amendment. And I also believe we can reconcile our constitutional rights with common-sense measures that will keep guns out of the hands of criminals, terrorists and people with mental health problems," Clinton said.

Both senators expressed their shock and horror at the shooting.

"Well, I have been heartsick over what happened in Illinois. It's just so tragic and we've seen this over and over again," Clinton said in the interview.

Obama, in whose state the shootings occurred Thursday, opened his press conference with the following statement:

"We hear about heartbreaking, mindless acts of violence like this day after day, week after week. They come in and out of the headlines, and after awhile, most of the world goes on. But for all the loved ones who are left behind, the pain and the sorrow remain for a very, very long time. Today we offer them our prayers, but we must also offer them our determination to do whatever it takes to eradicate this violence from our streets and our schools; from our neighborhoods and our cities."

Obama's Midwest Center rally drew about 6,000 people, according to his campaign. He had rallies scheduled later today in Oshkosh and Green Bay.

Sen. Clinton arrives in the state Saturday and planned to campaign in the state until Tuesday, when Wisconsin holds its presidential primary.

Notice the "But"?

Cosmoline
February 15, 2008, 04:47 PM
I didn't know he was running again this year.

Didn't you catch his "I'm dead but I have a dream" speech last month?

Robert Hairless
February 15, 2008, 06:26 PM
I believe in Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton but of course they must be subject to reasonable, commonsense restrictions.

damien
February 15, 2008, 06:37 PM
I hope a journalist asks him if he will sign the Amicus Curiae brief formally declaring his support for the "individual right to bear arms" that he believes in.

budiceman
February 15, 2008, 06:47 PM
It's sad how 2 shooting in less than 1 month happened in such an anti-gun state! Shouldnt it be safer there? WOW! What Can Osama be thinking?

Kentak
February 15, 2008, 06:51 PM
I believe he has also stated his belief that the Constitution is a "living" document that provides inspiration and guidance, but can be interpreted in light of contemporary realities.

I always thought that was what the amendment process was for. Silly me.

K

Deacon Blues
February 15, 2008, 07:00 PM
If you stand in the middle of the road, you risk getting hit by traffic from both directions.

Let's hope this happens sooner, rather than later.

ilbob
February 15, 2008, 07:10 PM
"There is an individual right to bear arms. But it's subject to common sense regulation, just like most of our rights are subject to common sense regulations," said Obama.
Just where in Illinois can I express my right to bear arms in a meaningful way, senator?

I went to his website and posed that very question to him.

Im283
February 15, 2008, 07:42 PM
And I also believe we can reconcile our constitutional rights with common-sense measures that will keep guns out of the hands of criminals, terrorists and people with mental health problems," Clinton said.

Thats all fine and dandy except for who is the one and what basis is used to make decisions as to whether someone is a criminal, terrorist or has mental health problem.

If one honest law abiding citizen is denied a right to keep and bear arms then that is one to many.

Obviously these two (and the others as well) will tell whatever lies they think they think neccessary to be elected.

I still can't understand how either Dem is remotely qualified for the job anyway.

Ratzinger_p38
February 15, 2008, 08:02 PM
IMO:

Obama knows the writing is on the wall, and the days of the 'collective rights' doctrine are done.

On the up, it's good Democrats are starting to move on a little bit from the their gun-grabbing heights of the 80s and 90s.

BobbyQuickdraw
February 15, 2008, 08:08 PM
Obama lies just like the rest of them. He will be as bad as Hillary, if not even worse.

absolut_beethoven
February 15, 2008, 08:14 PM
Although Obama supports gun control, while campaigning in gun-friendly Idaho earlier this month, he said he does not intend to take away people's guns.

At his news conference, he voiced support for the District of Columbia's ban on handguns, which is scheduled to be heard by the Supreme Court next month.


Say what????

Virtually in the same breath he says that he does NOT intend to take away people's guns, and then continues on that he DOES support DC's gun ban.

Well, I guess to a lying dishonest politician like him, a total gun ban (police and politicians exempted of course) is a reasonable restriction and doesn't infringe on the 2A!?!?!??!

illspirit
February 15, 2008, 08:34 PM
Crazy. When most of them are pressed on the issue, they claim to support a State right to a militia or whatever. But he's blatantly admitting he knows it's an individual right but doesn't care?! To stop him, methinks we'll need to remind people on the other side of the fence that he might not stop there. For instance, he's also said in the past he would consider Federal legislation to censor movies and video games. So if he thinks a total ban on guns is a "reasonable restriction" for an admitted individual right, might he consider a book-burning the same for the First?

And on that note, in the run-up to the general election, will politics continue to be off-limits here in activism? Or will defeating an anti-gun candidate be a legitimate use for this section?

Autolycus
February 15, 2008, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by [C]Cosmoline[/B]: Looks like Cthulhu is getting my vote again.

Do you post on http://www.yog-sothoth.com/ sometimes?

Carl N. Brown
February 15, 2008, 09:00 PM
Yes, it's election season again, choices, choices.....

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=46219&d=1160593529

LAR-15
February 15, 2008, 09:16 PM
So they both want to ban 'assault weapons'?

Something John McCain does not and his voting record bears that out

Powderman
February 15, 2008, 10:58 PM
Looks like Cthulhu is getting my vote again.
__________________


Indeed. Why vote for a LESSER evil?

(Shamelessly plagiarized from another gun board.)

MiddleAgedKen
February 16, 2008, 12:03 AM
Also shamelessly pilfered:

I like Cthulhu's foreign policy of killing everyone and consuming everything, but not so much his domestic policy of killing everyone and consuming everything. Still better than Hillary though.

ilbob
February 16, 2008, 12:02 PM
I got a reply from obama. no change here. just more non-answers.

Thank you for contacting Obama for America. The volume of messages we’re receiving has gone up since Barack’s victory in Iowa. While we cannot respond individually to over a thousand messages per day, the level of interest and thoughtfulness of the comments reflected in these communications are very gratifying. Your thoughts on our campaign and America's future are greatly appreciated.

Individual citizens like you are the foundation of this campaign.


Since his February 10 announcement speech in Springfield, Illinois, Barack has spoken consistently of working together to reclaim the meaning of citizenship, restore our sense of common purpose and rally the power of millions of voices to demand long overdue change. We hope you will explore our website, www.BarackObama.com, to view that speech in its entirety and learn more about Barack, his record and his plans.

If you’re writing because you want change, we need you to help us fight for it. Please sign up here to volunteer:
...

mgregg85
February 16, 2008, 12:14 PM
Obama has said that he wants a ban on all semiautomatics and a national ban on CCW.

What a liar.

mike101
February 16, 2008, 12:21 PM
Now let's see. Individuals have a constitutional right to own guns, but local governmennts have a right to deny constitutional rights. People have a right to own guns, but not in Washington DC.

I'm confused. :scrutiny:

trbon8r
February 16, 2008, 01:54 PM
In the wake of the shooting at Northern Illinois University, Democratis presidential candidates Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton both called Friday for what they said were common-sense changes in the gun laws,

There lies the problem. The laws these people propose do nothing to promote the common good, nor do they make any sense.

The Sheriff
February 16, 2008, 03:20 PM
Just political spin.
They need to answer the question:
"What gun law would have prevented this tragedy"?

They also need to be aware of the fact that the only recent mass shooting to be stopped in progress, was done by a civilian, with a CCW in Colorado at a Church.
...At which point, the bad guy killed himself.

evan price
February 16, 2008, 04:27 PM
Barack Obama wants a NATIONAL BAN on CCW.



Hell will freeze before I will vote for that (Insert invective here).

The Sheriff
February 16, 2008, 04:46 PM
Obama's recent comments about the Second Amendment, have centered on his desire not to interfere with Americans right to hunt....Hello?

ArmedBear
February 16, 2008, 05:47 PM
Obama's stated PLATFORM is a complete, permanent ban on all semiauto firearms and a Federal ban on CCW. He doesn't even bother with talking about "assault weapons".

F--- the lying sack of Milli Vanilli and the TelePrompter he rode in on.

khadre
February 16, 2008, 06:19 PM
Obama supports Individual RKBA like a Hooker supports Abstinence and Virginity.

Matt304
February 16, 2008, 07:35 PM
I still can't understand how either Dem is remotely qualified for the job anyway.

There are qualifications?

Standing Wolf
February 16, 2008, 08:24 PM
Obama has always been Chicago Mayor Daley's hand puppet.

I see no reason to besmirch the good name of hand puppets.

Cooperdisciple
February 17, 2008, 12:05 AM
C'mon you guys, it's reasonable control that he wants. After all, it's worked in Austrailia and Great Britain.

catargetshooter
February 17, 2008, 09:39 AM
C'mon you guys, it's reasonable control that he wants. After all, it's worked in Austrailia and Great Britain.


The same Great Britain that even banned swords? :scrutiny:

Anyone who wants to ban semi-autos is sure as hell not getting my vote. My fear is that gun control laws will become worse if that guy gets elected.

sniper5
February 17, 2008, 10:07 AM
Obama supports individual rights?

That's what I love about this forum. You guys are hysterical. Now we need a smilie on his back laughing with his legs kicking in the air. Cause that's what I'd put here.

alsaqr
February 17, 2008, 10:28 AM
For a good indication of what a politician will do in the future, just look at what he has done to date. Since he had been a US Senator, Obama has voted for every gun control scheme proposed in the US Senate. Obama has voted against every pro-gun bill that reached the Senate floor.

Make no mistake about it, Obama is an anti. He hates the fact that your state allows you to defend yourself and your loved ones from the scum that prey on society.

Rachen
February 17, 2008, 03:16 PM
Obama Supports Individual Gun Rights

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...I1gMgD8UQTAS80

Obama Supports Individual Gun Rights
By NEDRA PICKLER Ė 1 hour ago

MILWAUKEE (AP) ó Barack Obama said Friday that the country must do "whatever it takes" to eradicate gun violence following a campus shooting in his home state, but he believes in an individual's right to bear arms.

Obama said he spoke to Northern Illinois University's president Friday morning by phone and offered whatever help his Senate office could provide in the investigation and improving campus security. The Democratic presidential candidate spoke about the Illinois shooting to reporters while campaigning in neighboring Wisconsin.

The senator, a former constitutional law instructor, said some scholars argue the Second Amendment to the Constitution guarantees gun ownerships only to militias, but he believes it grants individual gun rights.

"I think there is an individual right to bear arms, but it's subject to commonsense regulation" like background checks, he said during a news conference.

He said he would support federal legislation based on a California law that would facilitate immediate tracing of bullets used in a crime. He said even though the California law was passed over the strong objection of the National Rifle Association, he thinks it's the type of law that gun owners and crime victims can get behind.

Five people, including the shooter, were killed during Thursday's ambush inside a lecture hall. Authorities said the two guns used were purchased legally less then a week ago.

"Today we offer them our thoughts and prayers, but we also have to offer them our determination to do whatever it takes to eradicate this violence from our streets, from our schools, from our neighborhoods and our cities," Obama said. "That is our duty as Americans."

Although Obama supports gun control, while campaigning in gun-friendly Idaho earlier this month, he said he does not intend to take away people's guns.

At his news conference, he voiced support for the District of Columbia's ban on handguns, which is scheduled to be heard by the Supreme Court next month.

"The notion that somehow local jurisdictions can't initiate gun safety laws to deal with gang bangers and random shootings on the street isn't born out by our Constitution," Obama said.

I rather eat sh*t.

Autolycus
February 17, 2008, 04:26 PM
Well we can all hope that Ron Paul somehow pulls off a miracle. Otherwise the country is going to be screwed again for the next few years.

ilbob
February 17, 2008, 04:40 PM
Well we can all hope that Ron Paul somehow pulls off a miracle. Otherwise the country is going to be screwed again for the next few years.
Since miracles are few and far between, it might be appropriate to extend one's planning beyond hoping for a miracle that isn't going to happen.

The Sheriff
February 17, 2008, 04:44 PM
Well,
At least the NRA will save a lot of money in not having to endorse ANYONE for President this time around.
Which is fine, because we are in for a helluva fight, no matter who wins.

Winchester 73
February 17, 2008, 04:57 PM
This is the ultimate truth.The Cult of Obama
Scary,but very enlightening.The erudite Charles Krauthammer:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/02/obama_casts_his_spell.html

February 15, 2008
Obama Casts His Spell
By Charles Krauthammer

WASHINGTON -- There's no better path to success than getting people to buy a free commodity. Like the genius who figured out how to get people to pay for water: bottle it (Aquafina was revealed to be nothing more than reprocessed tap water) and charge more than they pay for gasoline. Or consider how Google found a way to sell dictionary nouns -- boat, shoe, clock -- by charging advertisers zillions to be listed whenever the word is searched.

And now, in the most amazing trick of all, a silver-tongued freshman senator has found a way to sell hope. To get it, you need only give him your vote. Barack Obama is getting millions.

This kind of sale is hardly new. Organized religion has been offering a similar commodity -- salvation -- for millennia. Which is why the Obama campaign has the feel of a religious revival with, as writer James Wolcott observed, a "salvational fervor" and "idealistic zeal divorced from any particular policy or cause and chariot-driven by pure euphoria."

"We are the hope of the future," sayeth Obama. We can "remake this world as it should be." Believe in me and I shall redeem not just you but your country -- nay, we can become "a hymn that will heal this nation, repair this world, and make this time different than all the rest."

And believe they do. After eight straight victories -- and two more (Hawaii and Wisconsin) almost certain to follow -- Obama is near to rendering moot all the post-Super Tuesday fretting about a deadlocked convention with unelected superdelegates deciding the nominee. Unless Hillary Clinton can somehow do in Ohio and Texas on March 4 what Rudy Giuliani proved is almost impossible to do -- maintain a big-state firewall after an unrelenting string of smaller defeats -- the superdelegates will flock to Obama. Hope will have carried the day.

Interestingly, Obama has been able to win these electoral victories and dazzle crowds in one new jurisdiction after another, even as his mesmeric power has begun to arouse skepticism and misgivings among the mainstream media.

ABC's Jake Tapper notes the "Helter-Skelter cultish qualities" of "Obama worshipers," what Joel Stein of the Los Angeles Times calls "the Cult of Obama." Obama's Super Tuesday victory speech was a classic of the genre. Its effect was electric, eliciting a rhythmic fervor in the audience -- to such rhetorical nonsense as "We are the ones we've been waiting for. (Cheers, applause.) We are the change that we seek."

That was too much for Time's Joe Klein. "There was something just a wee bit creepy about the mass messianism ... ," he wrote. "The message is becoming dangerously self-referential. The Obama campaign all too often is about how wonderful the Obama campaign is."

You might dismiss The New York Times' Paul Krugman's complaint that "the Obama campaign seems dangerously close to becoming a cult of personality" as hyperbole. Until you hear Chris Matthews, who no longer has the excuse of youth, react to Obama's Potomac primary victory speech with "My, I felt this thrill going up my leg." When his MSNBC co-hosts tried to bail him out, he refused to recant. Not surprising for an acolyte who said that Obama "comes along, and he seems to have the answers. This is the New Testament."

I've seen only one similar national swoon. As a teenager growing up in Canada, I witnessed a charismatic law professor go from obscurity to justice minister to prime minister, carried on a wave of what was called Trudeaumania.

But even there the object of his countrymen's unrestrained affections was no blank slate. Pierre Trudeau was already a serious intellectual who had written and thought and lectured long about the nature and future of his country.

Obama has an astonishingly empty paper trail. He's going around issuing promissory notes on the future that he can't possibly redeem. Promises to heal the world with negotiations with the likes of Iran's President Ahmadinejad. Promises to transcend the conundrums of entitlement reform that require real and painful trade-offs and that have eluded solution for a generation. Promises to fund his other promises by a rapid withdrawal from an unpopular war -- with the hope, I suppose, that the (presumed) resulting increase in American prestige would compensate for the chaos to follow.

Democrats are worried that the Obama spell will break between the time of his nomination and the time of the election, and deny them the White House. My guess is that he can maintain the spell just past Inauguration Day. After which will come the awakening. It will be rude.

cbrgator
February 17, 2008, 05:12 PM
When the top 3 presidential candidates are these 3 people, all it shows me is that we are slowly losing the ability to lead ourselves.

larry starling
February 17, 2008, 05:25 PM
Right!!! These Idiot"S will say what ever it takes to get votes...If he ever was to get elected president the first thing he does is enact a new assault rifle ban and work to take away our rights to own firearms....Then he will raise taxes and further destroy what ever freedoms we have left!:scrutiny:

RP88
February 17, 2008, 06:01 PM
its funny how a bunch of liberals who want to move forward want to take away every gun not based on a model made before the year 1911. Talk about modernizing and progress, huh

I think Hillary is the real gun-grabber, but Obama is the only one who could get away with it if this hype he has keeps up with him. Hopefully, dems lose majority soon. If not, then we'll have to shift from arguing about being able to own guns to being able to own any kind of gun. That is what will be a royal pain in the butt to fight.

mordechaianiliewicz
February 17, 2008, 06:07 PM
All the Dems know that guns are a losing issue, and while we have Dems plenty on the state levels who are good on guns, on a federal level, look at MA, IL, and CA to see what these guys really want to do.

The problem is that the state level folks either never get far in federal politics, or like Clinton and Gore, they sale out on an issue they are generally good about on a state level (although I suspect guns were always an always for sale item with Bill Clinton, Obama is a pure gun grabber.) Everything he said in IL and all the laws he's supported say he will do everything he can to ban and confiscate firearms.

stubob2517
February 17, 2008, 08:04 PM
It amazes me that a former Constitution Law instructor (Obama) believes the Constitution is a 'living document' that you can 'interpret' for guidance.

clemsonu0219
February 17, 2008, 09:03 PM
Our biggest enemy in this election is Barrack Obama...and I hate to say that because I cannot stand Hillary. But she is slightly more "pro-gun" than Obama is.

txgolfer45
February 17, 2008, 10:07 PM
Now Hillary says she supports individual gun rights. :what:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080217/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_wisconsin

tabsr
February 18, 2008, 12:12 AM
Hillary and Mitt probably hunted the varmits together whenthey were youngins.

DomMega
February 18, 2008, 12:42 AM
Yeah, microstamping is a great idea because only law abiding citizens are the ones out there doing drive bys and murdering people in the streets because of a lack of something better to do with their time. That microstamping law is one of the main reasons (besides the financial ones) that I left California. All anyone has to do is go to a shooting range, pick up someone elses microstamped shells, leave them at a crime scene, and now us law-abiding citizens immediately become criminals over night for something some intellect in congress thought would be a good idea. I believe that when it comes to common sense, many of those whom we elect in this country are just seriously lacking any kind of it.

Apparently Hilary just went and said that she supports the 2nd Amendment too and that Americans have the right to own firearms for protection. The bottomline is that both of these people are trying to get elected and they're both trying to sew up their extra votes from the gun owners of America, seeing they are about oh......80 million of us!

Don't be fooled by their verbal mass seductions to the public. They don't have the answers, they just think they know whats best for America.

Big45
February 18, 2008, 01:48 PM
This is activism how again?

NeveraVictimAgain
February 18, 2008, 02:24 PM
It was only a few weeks ago that Obama was quoted as saying he would support a NATIONAL BAN on concealed carry. :cuss:

dave_pro2a
February 18, 2008, 02:31 PM
Lies to get elected.

Politics as usual.

Edmond
February 18, 2008, 03:11 PM
"I've gone hunting," she said. "I know you may not believe it, but it's true. My father taught us to shoot."

Clinton told reporters later she had once shot a duck in Arkansas, along with "a lot of tin cans, targets and some skeet."


That's really incredible.:what:

geophysicishooter
February 18, 2008, 05:19 PM
from Obama's Website: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/additional/Obama_FactSheet_Western_Sportsmen.pdf

PROTECTING GUN RIGHTS
Respect the Second Amendment: Millions of hunters own and use guns each year. Millions more participate
in a variety of shooting sports such as sporting clays, skeet, target and trap shooting that may not necessarily
involve hunting. As a former constitutional law professor, Barack Obama understands and believes in the
constitutional right of Americans to bear arms. He will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding
Americans to purchase, own, transport, and use guns for the purposes of hunting and target shooting.

I know this is preaching to the choir but he acts as if the only legitimate reason to own a gun is for the purposes of hunting and sportshooting.

Whatever. i guess we should outsource our right to self defense to India.

gego
February 18, 2008, 05:23 PM
Obama is yet another example of someone who uses clever words to disguise his true intent. Has any politician who votes to limit gun rights ever come out and said anything but that he supports gun rights? Of course they don't say they are against the 2nd amendment; they just use contorted logic to find a way to thwart its language and intent. Somehow it is necessary under the Constitution to first investigate and then limit who can buy a gun, while nobody in their right mind would consider it Constitutional to investigate and limit who can buy a printing press or a computer in order to insure the safe exercise of your 1st amendment rights.

Winchester 73
February 18, 2008, 05:39 PM
This is activism how again?

Against the biggest threats to our future as a Republic:Clinton and Obama.
Does that qualify as being actively engaged?
Broaden the horizon.

txgolfer45
February 18, 2008, 05:48 PM
Obama is changing his message to attempt to appeal to gun owners. But, a leopard doesn't change his spots. He is pure anti-gun. His voting record and tight relationship to the Chicago mayor bear this out.

We need to keep monitoring Obama's 2nd Amendment position as it has changed in recent weeks. Hillary now claims she supports individual gun ownership.

Both also put a big caveat on their recent pro-gun ownership stances. They support "common sense" local gun regulation. Their approach to common sense is right in step with the Brady bunch!

TexasRifleman
February 18, 2008, 06:33 PM
Against the biggest threats to our future as a Republic:Clinton and Obama.
Does that qualify as being actively engaged?
Broaden the horizon.

Well, when every other political thread on here has been locked shortly after starting it just kinda stands out as a curiosity.

scout26
February 18, 2008, 06:37 PM
"There is an individual right to bear arms. But it's subject to common sense regulation, just like most of our rights are subject to common sense regulations," said Obama.

Yes, there's a right, and No, you can't exercise it.

txgolfer45
February 18, 2008, 06:47 PM
My activism is to continually email both the Clinton and Obama campaigns to tell them that the 2nd Amendment is not about hunter and sportsmen's rights. :D

The Sheriff
February 18, 2008, 07:38 PM
Well, when every other political thread on here has been locked shortly after starting it just kinda stands out as a curiosity.

Not really politically oriented, as much as it is activist oriented because of the very real threat to our Second Amendment rights. As far as I can tell, the thread, and the subsequent posts have stuck right to the discussion on the Second Amendment issue.

Winchester 73
February 18, 2008, 10:05 PM
Not really politically oriented, as much as it is activist oriented because of the very real threat to our Second Amendment rights. As far as I can tell, the thread, and the subsequent posts have stuck right to the discussion on the Second Amendment issue.

I agree completely.Obama is the greatest threat to not only the 2A ,but the entire BOR since King George III(1812-1815).Unless you want to count that unpleasantness between 1861-1865.
No hype just fact,IMO.This freight train has got to be derailed.

R&J
February 18, 2008, 10:39 PM
http://gunowners.org/pres08/obama.htm

To Wit:

Barack Obama's Gun-Related Votes The U.S. Senate Debated: Obama
Voted:
Supporting concealed carry for citizens.......................... Anti-gun
Banning many common semi-automatic firearms............... Anti-gun
Disallowing self-defense in towns where guns are banned.. Anti-gun
Imposing one handgun a month restrictions..................... Anti-gun
Requiring lock up your safety trigger locks........................ Anti-gun
Protecting gun dealers from frivolous lawsuits.................. Anti-gun
Outlawing gun confiscations during a national emergency... Pro-gun **
Squelching the free speech rights of gun owners.............. Anti-gun
Restricting the interstate sales of firearms...................... Anti-gun
Repealing the gun ban in Washington, DC....................... Anti-gun

** Conflicts with other reports.

--Ray

ctdonath
February 18, 2008, 11:01 PM
He just has to say the right things.
Those persuaded by those things may be convinced to vote for him.
Those not persuaded will tie themselves in knots trying to explain why he's wrong, at which point both he and the previous group quickly get bored and move on to something more warm & fuzzy.

R&J
February 19, 2008, 03:13 AM
Obama supports the notion of a federal law overriding state laws, to deny concealed carry to average citizens, even in those states that currently allow it. :uhoh:

In the same breath, he supports municipalities invoking whatever gun laws and bans they see fit, eg., Washnington DC and Chicago-style gun bans, San Francisco and Madison attempted gun bans... :scrutiny:

In short, Barack Obama supports any law that introduces a new gun restriction, or curtails and existing gun freedom. :eek:

Don't think for one minute that they're not after your guns! By any which way thay can go at, they want you disarmed! Remeber that OSHA ammo proposal, that would have priced us right out of this activity? :rolleyes:

Hey, John McCain is not my cup of tea either; but he's 180 degrees away from Barack Obama on guns (he doesn't even support that stupid magazine ban). For now, he's our only choice! You've got to decide if you want to win this battle symbolically, or if you want Hillary/Obama defeated this fall. :mad:

--Ray

Walkalong
February 19, 2008, 09:00 AM
Yep, and cows fly. Did ya know used car sales people would tell a fib now and then too. :rolleyes:

benEzra
February 19, 2008, 09:06 AM
He will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding
Americans to purchase, own, transport, and use guns for the purposes of hunting and target shooting.
Except for that part about outlawing the most popular target rifles and pistols in America, of course... :scrutiny:

ozwyn
February 19, 2008, 09:46 AM
Allow me to summarize:

Obama - anti-gun.

Hillary - anti-gun.

McCain - anti gun.

3 candidates, 2 parties, one platform against gun rights.

Gun owners will not have a friend in the White House in 2009. You could easily argue we have not had a friend in the White House since before Regan.

Big45
February 19, 2008, 10:19 AM
Not really politically oriented, as much as it is activist oriented because of the very real threat to our Second Amendment rights. As far as I can tell, the thread, and the subsequent posts have stuck right to the discussion on the Second Amendment issue.

There is no plan of action. This is not activism. It's more preaching to the choir. It belongs in General Discussion, where it maybe would get locked for being politico. Unless I missed some kind of actual suggestion from the OP to act.

geophysicishooter
February 19, 2008, 11:44 AM
Obama has said that he wants a ban on all semiautomatics and a national ban on CCW.

Can anyone point to a source on this??

BTW, It may be political, but what form of activism isn't political in one way or another? Maybe it should be allowed to discuss the viewpoints of the applicants to the most powerfull position inthe free world. Is it not activism to help keep your fellow man informed?

Matthaios
February 19, 2008, 12:12 PM
geophysicshooter, here are the sources:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.gun.html

"Supports extending the assault weapons ban. Supports national law against carrying concealed weapons, with exceptions for retired police and military personnel. Supports limiting gun sales to one per month."

http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm

"Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:
Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms" (ontheissues.org cites their source for this as "Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test Jul 2, 1998")

UKarmourer
February 19, 2008, 12:28 PM
Wow, I really feel for all of you over there.

Here our choice is simple, only own a firearm if you can display a need
shooting clays, vermin or hunting.
NO handguns, rigorous police checks, in fact I'm a serving soldier, my colleagues think I'm some kind of freak because I happen to like guns and I hunt.

See what a few years of brainwashing that guns are evil can do??

I used to shoot practical pistol before Dunblane, not since tho, because all pistols are evil and only belong in the hands of the police and armed forces

I hope you guys have some kind of a miracle, I want to move to the US when my time is served (8 yrs) and I'd like to have the right to bear arms

R&J
February 19, 2008, 02:40 PM
"Can anyone point to a source on this??

BTW, It may be political, but what form of activism isn't political in one way or another? Maybe it should be allowed to discuss the viewpoints of the applicants to the most powerfull position inthe free world. Is it not activism to help keep your fellow man informed?"

**********

OBama's Anti-Gun Voting Record...

http://gunowners.org/pres08/obama.htm

To Wit:

Barack Obama's Gun-Related Votes The U.S. Senate Debated: Obama
Voted:
Supporting concealed carry for citizens.......................... Anti-gun
Banning many common semi-automatic firearms............... Anti-gun
Disallowing self-defense in towns where guns are banned.. Anti-gun
Imposing one handgun a month restrictions..................... Anti-gun
Requiring lock up your safety trigger locks....................... Anti-gun
Protecting gun dealers from frivolous lawsuits.................. Anti-gun
Outlawing gun confiscations during a national emergency... Pro-gun **
Squelching the free speech rights of gun owners.............. Anti-gun
Restricting the interstate sales of firearms...................... Anti-gun
Repealing the gun ban in Washington, DC........................ Anti-gun

** Conflicts with other reports.

**********


Start here, open the link and scroll down to Obama:

http://www.wqad.com/Global/link.asp?L=260047

Question: Agree or Disagree: When the government places restrictions on obtaining and owning a gun, they infringe upon our rights to bear arms.
Answer: Disagree
Explanation: According to the 1998 National Political Awareness Test, Obama indicated he supported strong restrictions to control gun distribution. [More]

Click the More link on the quiz page to get here: http://votesmart.org/npat.php?can_id=9490#826


To wit:

Gun Issues

Indicate which principles you support (if any) concerning gun issues.

X a) Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
X b) Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
X c) Maintain state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
X d) Ease state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
X e) Repeal state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms by law-abiding citizens.
X f) Favor allowing citizens to carry concealed firearms.
X g) Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.

**********


Watch Obama's actions--not what he says (he'll say anything!).

Any law that adds a new restriction to gun ownership--Obama is for!

Any law that diminishes an existing gun right--Obama is for!

He supports the notion of a Federal Law that would curtail state laws that allow average citizens to conceal carry.

He supports the notion of allowing municipalities to invoke whatever gun bans or restrictions they wish, eg., Chicago, DC, San Francisco, Madison.

**********


"This is activism how again?"

**********

This is not academic--it's going down now. If keeping the wrong people out of office isn't activism, what is?

--Ray

shdwfx
February 19, 2008, 03:06 PM
Obama pays homage to our Constitution and the 2nd Amendment as one would to a long-deceased relative.

ArmedBear
February 19, 2008, 03:10 PM
Funny.

Obama's campaign site used to say, "Ban all semiautomatic firearms." That's where I found it. Now you have to go to: http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm to see what it used to say on his site.

Now his site just says some boilerplate bull**** about hunters and anglers, Aldo Leopold and Teddy Roosevelt.

What an *******.

R&J
February 19, 2008, 05:02 PM
"Allow me to summarize:

Obama - anti-gun.

Hillary - anti-gun.

McCain - anti gun.

3 candidates, 2 parties, one platform against gun rights.

Gun owners will not have a friend in the White House in 2009. You could easily argue we have not had a friend in the White House since before Regan".

*****

Understood. But by contrast, McCain is a NRA cheerleader! He's only after the gun shows...

To Wit:

Protecting Second Amendment Rights

John McCain believes that the right of law abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is a fundamental, individual Constitutional right that we have a sacred duty to protect. We have a responsibility to ensure that criminals who violate the law are prosecuted to the fullest, rather than restricting the rights of law abiding citizens. Gun control is a proven failure in fighting crime. Law abiding citizens should not be asked to give up their rights because of criminals - criminals who ignore gun control laws anyway.


Gun Manufacturer Liability

John McCain opposes backdoor attempts to restrict Second Amendment rights by holding gun manufacturers liable for crimes committed by third parties using a firearm, and has voted to protect gun manufacturers from such inappropriate liability aimed at bankrupting the entire gun industry.

"Neither justice nor domestic peace are served by holding the innocent responsible for the acts of the criminal."

-Senator John McCain


Assault Weapons

John McCain opposes restrictions on so-called "assault rifles" and voted consistently against such bans. Most recently he opposed an amendment to extend a ban on 19 specific firearms, and others with similar characteristics.


Importation of High Capacity Magazines

John McCain opposes bans on the importation of certain types of ammunition magazines and has voted against such limitations.


Gun Locks

John McCain believes that every firearms owner has a responsibility to learn how to safely use and store the firearm they have chosen, whether for target shooting, hunting, or personal protection. He has supported legislation requiring gun manufacturers to include gun safety devices such as trigger locks in product packaging.


Banning Ammunition

John McCain believes that banning ammunition is just another way to undermine Second Amendment rights. He voted against an amendment that would have banned many of the most commonly used hunting cartridges on the spurious grounds that they were "armor-piercing."


DC Personal Protection

As part of John McCain's defense of Second Amendment rights, he cosponsored legislation to lift a ban on the law abiding citizens of the District of Columbia from exercising their Constitutional right to bear arms.


Criminal Background Checks

John McCain supports instant criminal background checks to help prohibit criminals from buying firearms and has voted to ensure they are conducted thoroughly, efficiently, and without infringing on the rights of law abiding citizens.


Background Checks at Gun Shows

At a time when some were trying to shut down gun shows in the name of fighting crime, John McCain tried to preserve gun shows by standardizing sales procedures. Federal law requires licensed firearm sellers at gun shows to do an instant criminal background check on purchasers while private firearm sellers at gun shows do not have to conduct such a check. John McCain introduced legislation that would require an instant criminal background check for all sales at gun shows and believes that such checks must be conducted quickly to ensure that unnecessary delays do not effectively block transactions.


The Firearm Purchase Waiting Period

John McCain has opposed "waiting periods" for law abiding citizen's purchase of firearms.


The confiscation of firearms after an emergency

John McCain opposes the confiscation of firearms from private citizens, particularly during times of crisis or emergency. He voted in favor of an amendment sponsored by Senator David Vitter prohibiting such confiscation.


Stiffer Penalties for Criminals who use a Firearm in the Commission of a Crime

John McCain believes in strict, mandatory penalties for criminals who use a firearm in the commission of a crime or illegally possess a firearm. Enforcing the current laws on the books is the best way to deter crime.

*****

We need to defeat Hillary, and even more so, Obama, and I don't mean symbolically--like voting for Ron Paul! McCain is our best option!

--Ray

ArmedBear
February 19, 2008, 05:20 PM
The difference between Obama/Clinton and McCain is that either Democrat will actively pursue gun control measures. McCain would probably leave the issue alone (like Bush more or less).

But Ray, don't expect a lot of people around here to understand rational decision-making between actual options. That would require intelligence, control over one's emotions, and life experience. (And yeah, anyone who is insulted by that, I'm talkin' 'bout you.)

There are people here who rail against the Bush Administration for not being obsessively pro-gun. They have already forgotten the AWB expiration and tort reform for firearms manufacturers.

Now does that mean I like Bush a lot? Not really. But whoever has most points at the end of the SuperBowl wins the game, as we found out this year. It doesn't matter how the points were scored, when the clock runs out. We are ahead now; we were way behind 7 years ago. That's something more than nothing.

I was alive and conscious during the administration of his predecessor and the filth under him like Janet Reno. I remember the AWB. I remember the Clinton ATF.

I voted for Ron Paul in the Primary (Fred had dropped out). I'm not a McCain cheerleader, and I'm still amazed that, in a country of 300,000,000 we can't find anyone better than these clowns (or the clowns last time or the times before that).

But for chrissakes, GET REAL, PEOPLE! Obama for gun rights?!?

R&J
February 19, 2008, 05:42 PM
1) "I'm not a McCain cheerleader, and I'm still amazed that, in a country of 300,000,000 we can't find anyone better than these clowns (or the clowns last time or the times before that)."


2) But for chrissakes, GET REAL, PEOPLE! Obama for gun rights?!?

*****

1) Amen to that! :rolleyes:

2) Anybody serious about their gun rights, would be nuts to vote for Obama! :banghead:

--Ray

rmarcustrucker
February 19, 2008, 06:04 PM
he would probably allow single shot black powder only. thats a gun, isn't it. Powder would be regulated, taxed (23,000%) and each granual would be micro printed. The lead balls (opps no lead, bad for the enviroment, the gold balls would also be micro printed.) course he could just be talking out both sides of his mouth, not like politicians haven't done this before. all I know is i'm getting ready to buy a few more high capacity mags (a dozen or so) for most of my guns before the election takes place. Just to be on the safe side.

Big45
February 20, 2008, 10:43 AM
zzzzzzz

You guys are not getting it.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=270671
This is not a politcs forum. READ THIS BEFORE POSTING HERE!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This forum is dedicated to activism to promote the RKBA.

This is not the place to complain about politicians or discuss politics. Endless discussions complaining about politicians and politics sap the power of the internet for change. Those threads will be removed as a violation of the terms of this forum.

This is not the place to debate ideas.

This is where we present actions we actually have carried out or action we want to carry out to make change happen.

There will be absolutely no arguments or comments about whether a given course of action is a good one. Such arguments always occur, about every single idea, and then no course of action is taken. This is the place to co-ordinate, not to talk somebody else out of doing anything.

If you cop a defeatist attitude in this forum, we’ll boot you. We don’t have time for crying. Any extraneous posts not directly related to the activity get deleted.

There will be no preferences given to any political party. If you have an activity to organize Republicans or Democrats or Libertarians, it doesn’t matter. Any bashing on any party is not allowed. This is not the place to muddy the waters.

Please use this forum to coordinate and work together. This is the place to organize to get things done. Use this forum for campaigns, legal gatherings, letter writing, talking points to push on the media, and things of this nature.


In other words, this forum is not a new version of the old L&P where little got accomplished because of the endless bickering, and we’re not going to let it turn into that. This is a forum for those of you that actually want to get things done instead of talked to death.


It's not activism to sit here and enlighten us all on what 99% already know.

It's all well and good but it ain't doing s%@.

Grayrider
February 20, 2008, 11:32 AM
I think this is activism, but obviously it is up to the mods to decide. Barak Obama represents the most serious threat to our right to keep and bear arms that our nation has ever faced. If he gets elected and has a radical Democratic congress behind him, we may be facing our worst fears come true. Many gun owners may be made criminals by legislation we cannot stop, and a supreme court that may not protect us. What then? Will activism save us that is not political? I think not. Whether we like it or not, this election is shaping to be the crux of the struggle to protect our rights and of the effort to eradicate them. While one party may have been weak on supporting our rights, another has not wavered from attacking them. The very fact that the Democratic party has thrust forward two favorite candidates that are outspokenly opposed to the 2nd Ammendment means that it has made its mission eradicating such rights. It has made this perhaps one of its clearest and most eloquently voiced priorities. We must be prepared to take sides if it is the only way to defeat such devoted opponents. I appreciate threads like this and posts like R&J's above. It helped to shake me from my somber mood of depression about the entire situation, where I had resolved not to vote. Stirring our hearts and swaying our hands at the ballot box is activisim. It helped me to realize I must vote as it is by far the most important means at my hand for being an activist in this fateful year. I fear that should we lose, we may be facing far more grim choices in the very near future.

John

The Sheriff
February 20, 2008, 11:40 AM
...The intention was not to draw people into a poliical discussion about Obama vs., Hillarah, or even McCain.
It was solely to focus on the threat to the Second Amendment that is currently in play.
With over 3,000 hits, and almost 100 posts, I would say that most people feel the issue is important and agree with that assessment.

ilbob
February 20, 2008, 11:48 AM
It was solely to focus on the threat to the Second Amendment that is currently in play.
There is very clearly a very serious active threat if Obama or Hillary wins the election.

The threat from McCain is relatively low by comparison, other than some more feel good stuff that may or may not be signed, or even passed by congress.

I am not sure how to activate people to understand this, or get them motivated to oppose pure evil. Gun owners could once again be the big force in the upcoming election, but only if we show up to the polls.

We should be worried about gun owners not showing up at the polls because we might think McCain is imperfect. Keep in mind there are a lot of other races that need to be voted in. If McCain is too imperfect to vote for, there is no law that says you can't just decline to vote for anyone for president, while expressing your vote in other races.

Gun owners MUST show up to the polls to reduce the damage being done to our rights!!!!

Big45
February 20, 2008, 11:54 AM
...The intention was not to draw people into a poliical discussion about Obama vs., Hillarah, or even McCain.
It was solely to focus on the threat to the Second Amendment that is currently in play.
With over 3,000 hits, and almost 100 posts, I would say that most people feel the issue is important and agree with that assessment.

The issue is obviously important. I'm only trying to point out that there is zero activism, as per forum rules, going on with your thread. You suggested no plan of action. That's all I'm saying.

ilbob
February 20, 2008, 12:21 PM
The issue is obviously important. I'm only trying to point out that there is zero activism, as per forum rules, going on with your thread. You suggested no plan of action. That's all I'm saying.

maybe the thread should morph into:

a) how do we get gun owners of all stripes to realize the threat?
and
b) how do we get them to the polls in adequate numbers?

cyclist
February 20, 2008, 01:26 PM
Skipping and skimming the posts to get to the activism, at which point I can conclude that:

#1: Do everything and anything I can legally do to keep Obama, Clinton, or an Obama/Clinton aliance to gain the Presidency.

#2: Regardless of the outcome of #1, do everything I can legally do to stack the House and Senate with representatives in our favor.

#3: Regardless of the outcome of #1 and #2, do everything I can legally do to get supporters of our side elected to State and Regional offices.

Easy enough, sort of, on a good day, with the wind at my back, and a couple of million people helping to pull in the same direction. I think I need to go exercise now, this is going to get tiring.

antsi
February 20, 2008, 01:39 PM
Allow me to summarize:

Obama - anti-gun.

Hillary - anti-gun.

McCain - anti gun.

This kind of stuff will kill us.

There is no equating McCain with Hilary and Obama.
I am not a fan of McCain, but making a rational decision means looking at his actual record and his platform and making an intelligent comparison.

"I won't make political alliances with anyone unless they support 100% of my agenda" is a losing strategy.

KBintheSLC
February 20, 2008, 04:09 PM
Although Obama supports gun control, while campaigning in gun-friendly Idaho earlier this month, he said he does not intend to take away people's guns.

Is this statement a self-contradiction or what? Obama and Clinton are both trying to wine and dine gun owners. Neither of them have a record of action to back it up.

There is no equating McCain with Hilary and Obama.
McCain is a half-a$$ed Republican at best. Our 2nd A rights are still not safe with him. Lets not mention that we can plan on another 4-8 years of war as well (1000 years according to McCain himself)... AKA: Can you say "total fiscal devastation"?

If you ask me, all three are a compromise in one form or another.

Bill2e
February 20, 2008, 04:45 PM
He is no more for individual gun rights as I am for getting hit in the head with a baseball bat.

He said he would support federal legislation based on a California law that would facilitate immediate tracing of bullets used in a crime. He said even though the California law was passed over the strong objection of the National Rifle Association, he thinks it's the type of law that gun owners and crime victims can get behind.



This California law is going to cause problems for the long term. I can't believe Arnold signed it.

ptmmatssc
February 20, 2008, 05:44 PM
"I think there is an individual right to bear arms, but it's subject to commonsense regulation"

I didn't know rights could be "regulated" . I thought a right is a right , period.

The Sheriff
February 20, 2008, 06:28 PM
I didn't know rights could be "regulated" . I thought a right is a right , period.
...Amen to that!
:)

XD Fan
February 20, 2008, 06:48 PM
No surprises on this thread.

GaryP
February 20, 2008, 06:51 PM
Another Silver tongued politician. :eek:




:evil:

GaryP
February 20, 2008, 06:52 PM
Although Obama supports gun control, while campaigning in gun-friendly Idaho earlier this month, he said he does not intend to take away people's guns.


At his news conference, he voiced support for the District of Columbia's ban on handguns, which is scheduled to be heard by the Supreme Court next month. :what: :what:
:banghead:



:evil:

Huddog
February 20, 2008, 07:00 PM
Just more double talking from politicians. As long as "gun free zones" exist so will target rich environments. Target rich environments allow cowards to become headlines for a little while and give anti gun politicians fodder. Unfortunately, they rarely think of how one armed individual may have made a difference but gun free zone policies made that impossible. :banghead:

R&J
February 20, 2008, 07:05 PM
1) Although Obama supports gun control, while campaigning in gun-friendly Idaho earlier this month, he said he does not intend to take away people's guns.

2) At his news conference, he voiced support for the District of Columbia's ban on handguns, which is scheduled to be heard by the Supreme Court next month.

3) "The notion that somehow local jurisdictions can't initiate gun safety laws to deal with gang bangers and random shootings on the street isn't born out by our Constitution," Obama said.

http://www.examiner.com/a-1223172~Obama_Supports_Individual_Gun_Rights.html

**********

1) Premise: Obama will not take your guns away.

2) Premise: Obama supports DC and Chicago-style gun bans.

3) Premise: Obama would allow municipalities to stomp all over your 2AM Rights, like Chicago and DC has, like San Francisco, Madison WI, Milwaukee WI and Wauwatosa WI want to! :uhoh:

Conclusion: Slippery politician. He won't mess with your gun rights--he'll empower your local Libs to do it! :eek:

--Ray

**********

Oh sure, Obama told Iowa radio listeners last year that he is a "strong believer" in the rights of hunters and sportsmen, and that homeowners should have a firearm "to protect their home and their family." But then in the next breath, he says, "It's hard for me to find a rationale for having a 17-clip semiautomatic [sic]."

In 2004, Obama said he supports a national ban on concealed carry because the states that allow it are "threatening the safety of Illinois residents."6 Never mind the fact that concealed carry laws have improved the safety of citizens in the states that have enacted such laws.

Obama has also taken a strong position in favor of the Clinton semi-auto ban which sunset in 2004. "I believe we need to renew -- not roll back -- this common sense gun law," Obama said.

Well, there's nothing that's "common sense" about the Clinton ban. Not only did it outlaw almost 200 types of firearms, legislators like Senator Chuck Schumer of New York tried to amend the law (before it sunset) to include additional types of semi-autos -- even banning classic (wood-stock) long guns such as the Remington shotgun which Senator John Kerry received as a gift during his 2004 presidential bid.

http://gunowners.org/pres08/obama.htm

**********

You snooze you lose, people! Don't be a tourist in your own country! Do whatever you can to actively derail this leftist-socialist, while you still have an active voice. Wishes don't count! :fire:

--Ray

SWMAN
February 21, 2008, 08:06 AM
And if I say I support Obama, but, it doesn't mean I'll vote for 'em. Talk is always cheap, especially coming from a politician with the most liberal record in the Senate.

trbon8r
February 21, 2008, 09:20 AM
There is no plan of action. This is not activism. It's more preaching to the choir. It belongs in General Discussion, where it maybe would get locked for being politico. Unless I missed some kind of actual suggestion from the OP to act.

If it offends you so much just move along. Geez.

Unless of course you just want to argue for the sake of arguing.

Lashlarue
February 21, 2008, 10:58 AM
McCain voted to close the loopholes in gunshows, something I agree with. Requiring a background check for private sales is not anti gun, it is common sense.If I sold a gun to someone I didn't know and it turned out to be a criminal who murdered someone with it, I would find it hard to live with myself.I've sold two guns at gun shows, both to ffl holders.Had cash offers for more money on both by "civilians"
which I turned down.

Crow61
February 21, 2008, 11:11 AM
McCain voted to close the loopholes in gunshows, something I agree with. Requiring a background check for private sales is not anti gun, it is common sense.If I sold a gun to someone I didn't know and it turned out to be a criminal who murdered someone with it, I would find it hard to live with myself.I've sold two guns at gun shows, both to ffl holders.Had cash offers for more money on both by "civilians"
which I turned down.

Years ago I have a revolver for sale. It was advertised in a local bulletin board. A guy called and said that he wanted to buy it. We agreed on a price and a time to make the deal when he got paid. For some reason I had a question and I called the number that he left. His mother answered the phone and wanted to know why I wanted to speak to him. When I told her that he was going to buy a gun from me she told me that he had a mental problem and was not allowed to own a gun.

I have thought a lot of times how close I came to making a big, big mistake. That is why I will never sell a gun to someone that I do not know unless it goes through a FFL dealer.

Obama is not a friend of gun owners, decent moral people, or the United States of America. End of story.

ptmmatssc
February 21, 2008, 12:06 PM
.If I sold a gun to someone I didn't know and it turned out to be a criminal who murdered someone with it, I would find it hard to live with myself

Have to wonder if you feel the same way about selling cars which may be used later in a crime . Do you go through a car dealer to sell it?How about a chainsaw (or any other tool) that may get used in a crime . Do you go through the local hardware store for the sale of the item ?

Just strikes me funny that people will get so nervous about a gun sale , but never think about the guy buying their old car . How many DUIs has the guy had , how many vehicular manslaughter charges have been filed on them . Is he even legal to drive? How many people run a "background check" on the guy buying their old sedan?

Not saying anyone is wrong for NOT selling their guns face to face , but just seems odd that people will sell anything else without a thought as to what it could be used for .

Crow61
February 21, 2008, 01:43 PM
Not saying anyone is wrong for NOT selling their guns face to face , but just seems odd that people will sell anything else without a thought as to what it could be used for .

I wouldn't want to sell anything to anyone that would be used in any crime. But, guns and gun sales are under the microscope far more than any other thing. Do you not think that a shooting/robbery etc with a gun sold between two private parties would bring a lot of media attention?

aerod1
February 21, 2008, 04:30 PM
Obama is lying. He has one of the most anti gun voting records in history.:fire:

ptmmatssc
February 22, 2008, 08:17 AM
I wouldn't want to sell anything to anyone that would be used in any crime. But, guns and gun sales are under the microscope far more than any other thing. Do you not think that a shooting/robbery etc with a gun sold between two private parties would bring a lot of media attention?

I agree that , I too would not want to sell anything to anybody else that would be used in a crime . But , the only way to be sure someone doesn't buy something that will be used in a crime at a later date , is to not have anything sold at all .

I refuse to be made to feel guilty for the actions of another . I'm tired of fingers being pointed at anyone but the perpetrator of a crime . It's not my fault, not your fault, and not societies fault that someone chooses to use a firearm to commit a crime . The blame lies squarely with the individual who did it .

Just my .02 YMMV

Limeyfellow
February 22, 2008, 08:21 AM
He is no more for individual gun rights as I am for getting hit in the head with a baseball bat.

Reminds me of every other presidents for the past 40 years. Even the ones that campaign on a platform of gunrights and conservatism have turned around and stabbed gun owners in the back, regardless of party loyality.

Deanimator
February 22, 2008, 09:06 AM
McCain voted to close the loopholes in gunshows, something I agree with. Requiring a background check for private sales is not anti gun, it is common sense.
You're calling for registration, de jure or de facto.

If you don't think that's a problem, tell everybody what it takes to LEGALLY move to Chicago with handguns.

If you're for gun registration, then there's no reason for you to be against poll taxes and "literacy" tests for voting.

R&J
February 23, 2008, 12:36 AM
"This is activism how again?"

"There is no plan of action. This is not activism. It's more preaching to the choir. It belongs in General Discussion, where it maybe would get locked for being politico. Unless I missed some kind of actual suggestion from the OP to act."

*****

We were/are in the middle of primary elections. Assuming you're a good citizen, and not just a tourist in your own country, you were/are going to cast a vote, yes? :scrutiny:

If you care to protect your gun rights, our plan of action is that you not vote for Obama! :uhoh: We suggest that you vote for McCain. :what:

That's activist enough for me! Or do you require that I knock on your door with a leaflet? :rolleyes:

--Ray

thekomet
February 23, 2008, 12:56 AM
I think we can all agree that obama and clinton will do what they can to take our guns. i think mccain is not as anti-gun as we might think. the only really "anti gun" position that i remember him taking is closing the "gun show loophole" but i actually think that is a good idea. remember the 2nd amendment allows for a well-regulated militia. please tell me if there is something i have missed with mccain. remember, he is the connsumate politician and he knows he needs the conservative base to get elected. i don't care if he likes guns or gun owners as long as he realizes he won't be elected WITHOUT gun owners. that being said, ron paul was my choice.

R&J
February 23, 2008, 01:58 AM
I agree with your take on McCain; he's the astute politician alright.

As it gets down to it, a vote for Ron Paul or Huckabee is merely a symbolic gesture, and a wasted vote.

We do indeed, at times pick from the lesser of two evils. Unlike Hilary or Obama, because it's going to be one of them, McCain is not after your guns. He supports not the magazine ban, or the assault weapons ban. He does believe in throwing the book at offenders.

I also agree that it makes no sense to throttle the local gun shops with regulations, and allow a traveling gun show a free for all.

--Ray

Leif Runenritzer
February 23, 2008, 02:40 AM
As it gets down to it, a vote for Ron Paul or Huckabee is merely a symbolic gesture, and a wasted vote.

So if i vote for Paul, it's a waste, and if i vote for McCain, it's a vote well spent because he would win anyhow?

Requiring a background check for private sales is not anti gun, it is common sense.If I sold a gun to someone I didn't know and it turned out to be a criminal who murdered someone with it, I would find it hard to live with myself.

You don't have to be an FFL holder to do a background check, AFAIK. Or better yet, sell only to CHL holders. It's not just a background check; your gun is to be logged with the dealer and with the police in some states. The transaction must be on file with the dealer for 20 years, and in the meantime, the BATFE has access to it. If the dealer quits before 20 years, the BATFE keeps their books. In Oregon, police are supposed to keep the record for no more than five years. Suspiciously, there's no penalty for keeping it on file for longer. You are marked every time you buy a gun.

R&J
February 23, 2008, 08:05 AM
"So if i vote for Paul, it's a waste, and if i vote for McCain, it's a vote well spent because he would win anyhow?"

*****

No. That's not what I said. And I'm not interested in mere verbal juggling.

If I were as confident as you that McCain will win, I wouldn't have posted this at all. I see a real danger to our 2AM rights. And as usual, I see a sleepy complacency in the Conservative side.

Voting for someone that can't win, in a close race, and this will be close, is as good as not showing up to vote at all. It is a symbolic gesture. You may as well be green and save the gas!

--Ray

Winchester 73
February 23, 2008, 04:44 PM
And then there's Mrs. Obama who certainly would be the First Lady from Hell:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/02/the_general_begins.html
In Milwaukee on Monday, Michelle Obama, who has spoken frequently in the campaign, said: "Hope is making a comeback, and let me tell you, for the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my country. Not just because Barack is doing well, but I think people are hungry for change."

For the first time in her life? Coming from the realm in which Michelle Obama has lived her adult life -- Princeton, Harvard Law, a top law firm, a $342,000-a year job doing community relations for the University of Chicago hospital system -- this may not sound out of the ordinary. As Samuel Huntington has pointed out, people in this stratum tend to have transnational attitudes -- all nations are morally equal, except maybe for ours, which is worse.

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