DAK Trigger System


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BlazingAngel01
February 15, 2008, 07:49 PM
To all the Sig DAK trigger reset is 3lbs per shot. I'm getting the SRT (Short Reset Trigger)placed in my 229. It is so hard to shoot:cuss:.

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Rexster
February 15, 2008, 08:02 PM
Not sure what you mean; there is a choice of two reset positions with the DAK trigger. The farthest forward is obviously a longer stroke, but is lighter, about 6 to 7 pounds. The closer reset position results in a shorter pull, but is heavier, about 8 pounds, though for some reason it seems heavier than that. The way the DAK trigger is set-up, there is less mechanical advantage at the shorter reset position, therefore the heavier pull weight. I just always use the longer reset position, for the sweet long DA pull. The longer pull on the DAK is lighter than the decocker SIGs' intitial DA pull, and lighter than most, if not all factory DA revolver pulls. I like the DAK just fine. Of course, the SRT option is sweet, too. It's a simple matter which one is your cup of tea. I like the DAK for my duty/CCW pistol, which is likely to be pulled and shot in a dire emergency, but the decocker version is nice for an "offensive" action, in which I initiate contact, and will start with the weapon in my hands.

Rexster
February 15, 2008, 08:05 PM
The decocker models may also be better for competition, in which the trigger can be staged or prepped for the first shot out of the holster.

Erik
February 16, 2008, 04:56 AM
My DAK pulls at 6.5 and 7 pounds; which is I believe is in spec. Sorry to hear you are having problems.

Alan Fud
February 17, 2008, 11:42 AM
I just always use the longer reset position, for the sweet long DA pull How do you do this? Once you chamber a round, the trigger is in the shorter reset position. How do you get it to the longer reset position with a live round in the chamber?

DPris
February 17, 2008, 01:19 PM
DAK trigger resets to the long pull on each shot.
Denis

Alan Fud
February 17, 2008, 01:54 PM
With the first round in the chamber, the hammer is not flushed indicating the shorter reset. How to you get it to the longer reset?

DPris
February 17, 2008, 03:53 PM
Like a revolver, the DAK trigger returns fully forward after each shot, if allowed to do so.
Denis

Alan Fud
February 17, 2008, 07:08 PM
When you chamber a round, the hammer is slightly cocked. This is the lighter trigger pull. Everytime you fire the gun, the slide will eject the empty, re-cock the hammer to the same position and chamber another round. If you dry fire the gun, the hammer will fall to a full flush position requiring the longer slightly heavier trigger pull.

I have two DAKs (a 229 and a 239) and both of them work this way.

There is no way that I know of to get the heavier trigger pull (and thus have the hammer completely flush) on a live round.

If you wish, I can take a photo and post it in a few days after the film is developed to illustrate what I am talking about.

varoadking
February 17, 2008, 09:27 PM
With the first round in the chamber, the hammer is not flushed indicating the shorter reset. How to you get it to the longer reset?

Reset has nothing to do with the hammer position. The hammer will stay partially cocked regardless of the reset position you opt for.

When you chamber a round, the hammer is slightly cocked. This is the lighter trigger pull.

The lighter trigger pull comes with the longer reset...

There is no way that I know of to get the heavier trigger pull (and thus have the hammer completely flush) on a live round.

You really are confused on this issue...the short reset is where you get the heavier trigger pull...

If you wish, I can take a photo and post it in a few days after the film is developed to illustrate what I am talking about.

Film?

phantomak47
February 17, 2008, 09:40 PM
What is the verdict from DAK owners on the DAK trigger? Any regrets? Anyone own both DA/SA and DAK Sigs?

DPris
February 17, 2008, 10:29 PM
I have a DA/SA 229 and a DAK 229, both in .357.
Honestly can't decide which I prefer the most.
Denis

Alan Fud
February 17, 2008, 10:52 PM
You really are confused on this issue...the short reset is where you get the heavier trigger pull...Maybe I am confused. Please educate me.


Reset has nothing to do with the hammer position. What does it have to do with? With the hammer completely flushed, the gun has a slightly heavier pull.


The hammer will stay partially cocked regardless of the reset position you opt for.How do you 'opt for a reset position'?

Rexster
February 18, 2008, 04:00 PM
phantomak47, I have used a P229R DAK since November 2004 as a duty pistol. Having used Glocks for a couple of years by that point, and DA sixguns since the early 1980's, I took to DAK right away. In fact, the first time I fired the DAK, it was on my agency's qual course, and I shot a higher score than I had ever shot with a Glock, in over two years of trying. I used a P220 "European" model as a duty pistol for a couple of years in the early 1990's, at the time transitioning from a 1911 duty pistol, so getting used to the SA/DA transition took some practice, but eventually I got up to where my skill level had been with a 1911. (Though not as good as I was with a sixgun.) I got away from the "European" P220 because the heel-clip mag release would snag the patrol car seat fabric, causing a partial release of the magazine, and eventually I sold it.

Having ten+ years between my first and second SIG, I could not directly compare them, to see whether DAK or decocker was best, so I recently bought a decocker P229, and am now trying to bring my skill level up with the decocker model, to see which is best for me. I can see advantages and disadvantages with each. The DAK has a consistent trigger pull, if the trigger is allowed to return all the way forward, and the absence of a decocking lever makes for a narrower, "slick" appearance and feel. The decocker version has a heavier first pull than the DAK, but subsequent shots are SA, which may allow for more accurate shooting. I said "may" allow, because those of us who are used to DA shooting can do good work with it. My SA shots with the newer P229 are LESS accurate than the DA shots with my DAK, but that may be a matter of less practice, as I did well with my first SIG back in the early 1990's, after enough practice. I will keep y'all posted as things progress.

Rexster
February 18, 2008, 04:26 PM
Alan Fud, I will try to answer your above questions. To preface, there are two hammer positions, and two trigger positions, but a total of three possible operational trigger pulls. If the hammer is all the way down, that is, with the slide closed, the trigger pull will be at its heaviest, basically just like the first pull with the decoker SIGs. The only time a DAK will be like this under operational circumstances is when re-striking a dud round. If the hammer is in the rebound position, and the trigger is all the way forward, the first pull will be sweet, about six to seven pounds. A shot is fired, which works the slide, and the trigger starts returning. The first click heard will be the first reset position, and the trigger can be pulled from this position, though due to "less mechanical advantage" this shorter pull will be heavier, about eight pounds. If the trigger is allowed to return fully forward, to the second click, the subsequent pull will be lighter, over the longer stroke length, just like the first pull. Being a long-time DA sixgunner, I am used to letting triggers return all the way forward, and have made no attempt to train to use the shorter but heavier trigger DAK stroke for follow-up shots.

I think I have covered your three questions in free narrative form, rather than taking each one individually.

More thoughts: I think that users of 9mm SIGs may see less utility in the DAK trigger, as the light recoil allows one to take advantage of faster follow-up SA shots. I am mandated to use .40, and find that by the time I have recovered from recoil, I can have the trigger reset to the farthest forward position. I work in a crowded "big" city, and live in a smaller city, with houses close together, with cedar shake exterior walls. My EVERY shot must be aimed; there is no suppressive fire option for me. If I want to hose the foes, I have a shotgun and a couple of carbines. DAK is good for my circumstances, but I am open-minded, which is why I bought a decocker SIG for experimentation.

Erik
February 18, 2008, 04:30 PM
Rexster beat me to the explanation and did as a fine job describing DAK trigger pulls I've seen or heard.

phantomak47
February 18, 2008, 07:01 PM
Rexster, thanks for all that info it was very helpful. For as many Sig fans as there are here on THR and even on Sig Forum, there isnt a whole lot of talk about the DAK system.

varoadking
February 18, 2008, 10:01 PM
How do you 'opt for a reset position'?

After initial firing, the shooter can control the trigger reset either to an intermediate point with a shorter pull distance and two-pound heavier weight (the trigger bar intersects the hammer arm closer to the pivot point) or fully reset to the original longer and lighter weight position.

Maybe I am confused. Please educate me.

Read this - it may help:

http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/sig070606/index1.html

Rexster
February 19, 2008, 09:21 AM
phantomak47, I think it's an issue of so few DAKs being out there for people to handle, and perhaps many thinking it is like SIG's older DAO design, which has a very heavy pull, and is therefore tiresome after just a few shots. The one I bought was actually delivered to the dealer by mistake, with a batch of regular decocker P229R pistols. The dealer had a hard time moving it, and I hesitated myself, having heard I could not qual with a DAK at work. But, then I heard some instructors would indeed sign off on a DAK, and I bought it. (We buy our own pistols, but they must be certain makes and models, in .40 S&W.)

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