New Guy looking for advice


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HomeandRanch
February 16, 2008, 08:53 PM
I am glad I found this website. Just reading the threads has probably tripled my knowledge of guns. That still leaves me with hardly any..

I am going to buy my first gun very soon. I want to get a rifle and here is what I would like the rifle to do.

1.) Reliable and simple enough to use and take care of for a novice.
2.) Accurate enough to kill pigs and coyotes at 100 yds ( I chose 100yds arbitrarily)
3.) Home defense. If the " hits the fan" I want to be able to take care of the badguy.

Cheap ammo would be nice! As far as price goes Lets cap it at $700.

I realize this rifle does not exist but there has to be something close. So far a friend of mine recommended a mini 30. When I went to the gun store they said no way get a Weatherby vanguard 25-06.

Thanks

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Vicious-Peanut
February 16, 2008, 08:58 PM
I think the Ruger mini-14 (.223) or the mini-30 (7.62x39) would be a good choice. They are extremely reliable firearms and either cartridge is fine for coyotes and others out to 200 yards. The Mini-30 would be better for hogs however. The new minis have no issue shooting accurately enough to protect you either. (2ish moa usually)

Alot of people will also recommend to AR-15, I know nothing about them except they are also good reliable firearms (I have seen one jam, never seen a mini jam, but in honesty I believe the AR-15 jam was operator error)

A Saiga is also a good choice, they are an AK made currently in the original AK factory the only difference is the trigger and they have a normal rifle style stock over a pistol grip like the AR or normal AK. They are obviously extremely reliable firearms and shoot the proven 7.62x39 caliber.

For home defense a semi-auto is far better than a bolt action like the weatherby. Whatever you get learn it well and practice alot, and have fun!

cp1969
February 16, 2008, 09:09 PM
A lever action .30-30 will do all three of your requirements.

alemonkey
February 16, 2008, 09:16 PM
I think a Saiga in .308 or 7.62x39 with a 16" barrel would be great.

Hmm...why don't I have one?

jpwilly
February 16, 2008, 09:16 PM
Basically everything you require points to a semi auto, pump, or lever action not a bolt action. A reliable semi auto would get my dollars. You should first find out if it is legal to hunt with a semi auto in your area. Also how PC you intend to be. All of the above rifles are available in calibers that will take most any game in North America. The Mini 30 is just about right. But an AR platform could give you 223 & 6.8SPC with the purchase of an additoinal upper and magazine.

High Planes Drifter
February 16, 2008, 09:42 PM
All the requirements you have mentioned can be filled for a fraction of the cost of the Weatherby.

Buy an SKS and be happy.

357fan
February 16, 2008, 09:45 PM
Another vote for a Saiga. Heck, for the price of a good mini 14 you could have a saiga in 308 and enough left over for one in 223 or x39. Do it. You know you want to.

HomeandRanch
February 16, 2008, 09:56 PM
OK thanks guys. I am in Texas and I still need to get the FFL. As far as being PC, I am way past that point. I think I may go with the Saiga just for the price difference if all else is equal. The mini 14 was $600 and the mini 30 was even more here locally.

Can anyone recommend a good online dealer? I saw classic arms has a Saiga .308 in stock for $329. Thanks again


I noticed the 7.62/30 was about $80 bucks cheaper and the ammo is cheaper. Whats the big difference as far as I would be concerned?

creekerdoug
February 16, 2008, 09:57 PM
First, welcome aboard. The High Road is a great place to learn and hang out. It is difficult to help you pick a rifle because everyone is different. Unfortunately, there is no cheap ammuniton left on this planet. It is only going to get more expensive so stock up when you make a decision on a gun.

I like AR15s and AK47s for plinking and FAL's for other stuff. I really like the Schmidt Rubin K31 rifles for all around fun but the ammunition (7.5 X 55 Swiss) is going to run you about .50 cents everytime you pull the trigger.

Good luck and shoot safe.

Guy
February 16, 2008, 10:49 PM
IM gonna second the 30 30 it was my first

Is reliable and simple to maintain.

it will hit its mark at 100meters

its under 700 dollars and the ammo is affordable.

cbrgator
February 16, 2008, 10:55 PM
if your 3 conditions are in order than as far as reliability and ease of use the the AK47 is your best choice. I don't know that you would want to use a rifle that can kill a pig at 100 yds for home defense, at least not in your home. Over-penetration could be a major issue, depending on where you live.

cbrgator
February 16, 2008, 10:57 PM
if your 3 conditions are in order than as far as reliability and ease of use the the AK47 is your best choice. I don't know that you would want to use a rifle that can kill a pig at 100 yds for home defense, at least not in your home. Over-penetration could be a major issue, depending on where you live.

Ash
February 16, 2008, 10:57 PM
Go with a lever-action 30-30. They can be had cheaply and will provide far better accuracy than the SKS.

Ash

chauncey
February 16, 2008, 10:57 PM
if you are looking for accuracy, based on my experience I'd stay away from a Mini-14 or anything in 7.62x39.

.308 or .223 ak accuracy may be questionable, but I think it will still be better than any of the above choices. heck, I'd even recommend a 5.45x39 over "all of the above".

WinchesterAA
February 16, 2008, 11:10 PM
Ignore everyone else... You will never regret buying an AK-47. If you do manage to say it, it'll probably be a tongue in cheek comment about "aww, I feel like I'm missing out on all the drama your rifle gives you, that's not fair!"

I bought an AK. 10k+ rounds through it without a hiccup from dirty wolf to more dirty wolf and some occasional walmart x39 and yet more dirty wolf. Flawless

I've killed coyotes with it ~the 100yard mark with favorable results. 1 hit puts em down nice, pigs the same way though I've yet to shoot one for myself with my AK, I have been present when someone else shot one with his AK though.

If SHTF, AK's the first one in my hand. Cheap too, ultra simple, very very reliable in my experience, and a whole lot of fun.

I've shot stuff with a very wide range of firearms, and the AK has served me very well. I cannot speak highly enough of it, but I will recommend highly that you get one as it IS what you want.

The accuracy thing? I've won group initiated competitions with my AK, I won't say it's a tack driver at a mile, but from 0-400 yards I feel pretty good about killing something.


I realize this rifle does not exist but there has to be something close. So far a friend of mine recommended a mini 30. When I went to the gun store they said no way get a Weatherby vanguard 25-06.

Nonsense, you just described THIS rifle - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/SgtAryan/DSCF3175.jpg

As far as the Weatherby Vanguard goes..

Well, here's mine in .270 -
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/SgtAryan/DSCF0443.jpg

Hasn't let me down yet, with well over 30 deer under it's belt since 1994. It is the rifle I feel most comfortable with.

if you DO want an alternative to the AK though, guess what else fits your description to a T?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/SgtAryan/DSCF3542.jpg

M44, I picked that one up for 50$ from a gunshow and have since put several thousand rounds through it. It's a blast to shoot, and by far the most eventful rifle I own. Accurate enough, packs a WHALLOP (the penetration is rather insane), ammo is even cheaper than x39 for the AK, and, well.. It's a beautiful rifle that feels like home to the touch. I'd still say go with the AK though, but if you want a boltgun that's great and cheap to shoot, grab an m44? It's cheap!!!! why not? You could buy 7 or 8 really good ones with 700$. Or 1 and a few thousand rounds of ammo.


Decision breakdown -

Ak-47 - 300$ to as much as you want to spend on an AK. Mine was 300$ and is viewed as a POS AK. I LOOOVE my AK.
7.62x39 for the AK is probably around 200-210$/1000 now vs 5.56x45 running in at probably 280-400$/1000 compared to .308 which is even more expensive.

7.62x54r for the m44 rolls in at about 170ish/1000. Note also that a LOT of people talk a LOT of crap about wolf .223 AND it's way more expensive than the x39.

If you really want the rifle you described, you want an AK. My favorite ammo for my AK so far has been the wolf 154gr x39. That's what I tagged the yote with as well as several other critters. It's my workhorse round and runs about 20$ higher than the other stuff per 1000rds.

sarduy
February 17, 2008, 12:18 AM
you can get an AK or you can get a Saiga both rifles are great because they are almost the same, another good option would be the Mosin Nagant or a SKS

AK 300/400 dollars (7.62x39)
Saiga 300/400 dollars (depending the caliber .223 7.62x39 or 308)
Mosin nagant 70/110 dollars (7.62x54R)
SKS 200/250 dollars (7.62x39)

41magsnub
February 17, 2008, 12:25 AM
CMP M1 Garand would meet those needs and gain you style points. We all know how important style points are!

Or.. not what you asked for, but a 12 ga pump shotgun of your choice and a spare slug barrel with rifle sights. Use an 18.5" cyl bore barrel with buckshot for HD and the slug barrel for hunting. There aren't many guns much easier to maintain than a pump action shotgun. Granted 100 yards is about at the upper end for a slug, but it does meet all the requirements.

MachIVshooter
February 17, 2008, 01:01 AM
Go with a lever-action 30-30. They can be had cheaply and will provide far better accuracy than the SKS

That would be my suggestion as well. Such top notch rifles as the Marlin 336 can be had for ~$300, and .30-30 isn't much more than 7.62x39mm these days. The quality you're gonna get with a $300 Marlin vs. a $250 SKS or $300 AK is night and day.

The .30-30 is superior to the 7.62x39mm not so much for energy, though it is about 25% higher, but for it's ability to use a much wider range of bullets. And since Hornady came out with their Leverevolution ammo, you can now use spitzers in a tube fed levergun.

If I had to choose between my Marlin 336 and my WASR 10, it'd be the Marlin all day, any day. And I love my auto's.

BozemanMT
February 17, 2008, 08:48 AM
Ohhh, i was all set to vote AK/SKS, but then someone mentioned the CMP M1 Garand.
And honestly that's probably the better deal.

1. CMP (Civilian Marksmanship program) M1 Garand. 30-06, 8 rounds in a clip. historical, brilliant sights. nice lines and hurry because they are running out. Hell of a deal.

2. AK for the reasons above. 7.62x39 Not brilliant sights, but good enough for 100 yard work. still lots of ammo available as affordable as ammo gets nowadays

3. SKS, same rifle, not as good with magazine issue as the AK, lot cheaper though.

4. Lever action 30-30 for the reasons mentioned above.

Lots of brilliant choices, good thread.

jmr40
February 17, 2008, 08:59 AM
I think you really need 2 rifles to meet your goals. With $700 and careful shopping you should be able to pick up a good used bolt rifle in a caliber to meet your needs for hunting. There should be enough left over to buy an SKS or a used 30-30 for self defense purposes.

HomeandRanch
February 17, 2008, 09:33 AM
Has anyone dealt with classic arms before? He has a NEW ROMAINIAN HMG RIFLE WITH BLACK POLY FURNITURE for $389. Id rather have the ak with the pistol grip if all things are equal between that and a Saiga.

jmr40 I think I may end up buying two guns eventually so I can have one for hunting.

Eagle1899
February 17, 2008, 09:41 AM
Remington 700 - 223
Talley Light Weight mounts
Luppy 6x42

strangelittleman
February 17, 2008, 09:51 AM
Yep, A good lever action in either .30-30, .44mag, or .357mag.

Shawnee
February 17, 2008, 10:30 AM
As you can tell, this forum has a lot of guys who are very caught up with military-type equipment. If that's the equipment and the image you want for yourself, listen to them.

If you want something that simply makes good sense... go with a lever-action 30/30 or, if you want something a little fancier and longer-range but just as sensible, get the Browning BLR in .243.

:cool:

Vaarok
February 17, 2008, 10:55 AM
Tube fed rifles reload too slow.

I vote for a SKS, Vz-52 in 7.62x39 (like SKS but better), MAS-49/56, or Saiga.

I would also throw in, while not a rifle, the Saiga-12 shotgun is made of pure awesomeness and win, and you and every other human being on earth should have one.

32winspl
February 17, 2008, 04:10 PM
Hey Homeandranch, welcome. If you want a bolt action, the Vanguard can be had new, in box, with a decent scope mounted for $680, and that's at Weatherby's full msrp.
Also, not to knock online sales (I've never tried it), but you might be better served by finding a local gun shop, and developing a relationship with them. You might not get the absolute best price from them, but a good dealer can be a font of knowledge and advice. If you hang out with THR long enough, you'll find plenty of posts in which people "dog" their local dealer or bigbox store regarding less than stellar dealings with them. I guess many must be true however, at my local Gander Mountain, I have always been treated well, generally deal with my 2 favorite guys, and have had their in-house gunsmith help me on several occasions. I also sometimes buy from another dealer in the next town north of me. In both places, if the people aren't busy with someone else, they'll ask me "Can I help you?", usually, I'm just browsing, and say so. They say something like "Take your time. Let me know if you have any questions". I guess the best part of taking the time to get to know your local dealer is that they're getting to know you too. Also, if you have a problem with your gun, in most cases, their gunsmith is a factory authorized warranty service guy. I doubt you get that from an online seller. Online ammo seller? Sure, if you know just what you want. But as for buying a firearm, I'd rather give my money to someone that lives where (or close to) I live. Granted, when I buy from Gander, the ultimate profit goes to some corporate office somewhere, but they employ a host of folks right here in Wausau.
Again, referring to the posts of some of the folks on this site whom have had bad experiences with uncaring, or even rude salespeople; perhaps what follows will explain why my dealings have all been positive. I am not, nor do I act like a know-it-all. I'm always polite and upbeat. I don't ask a question and then argue about the answer given.
If you aren't treated respectfully, (it must happen, else there wouldn't be so many complaints) move on to another shop.
Anyway, these are my thoughts regarding online sales vs your local shop. Hope this helps.
Robb

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