The S&W roach motel claims another victim...


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Tamara
August 3, 2003, 08:02 PM
As much as I horse-trade around with other guns, three things check into my collection, but don't check out: milsurp rifles, 1911's and S&W wheelguns...

Here's a picture of the 1998-vintage 3" round-butt .45 Colt 625-7 I picked up today (with a 5" Steve Corkum custom Shobu for scale) on a trade. This leaves me, as best I can tell, only one caliber away from having at least one of every production caliber the modern N-frame was offered in; only a .38/44 Heavy Duty to go! :cool:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=412269

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Marko Kloos
August 3, 2003, 08:09 PM
Sweet.

Is the trigger pull adequate, or does it need to take a trip over to the Shan-Man?

Supica and Nahas list the 3" 625 in .45 Colt as a limited run of 200 for Lew Horton back in 1998. That's a rare bird you have there...even harder to come by than that PC-13.

This leaves me, as best I can tell, only one caliber away from having at least one of every production caliber the modern N-frame was offered in; only a .38/44 Heavy Duty to go!

Nuh-uh. You'll also need a .22 Remington Jet, and one of those new .38 Super N-frames.

Tamara
August 3, 2003, 08:15 PM
Ah, clever me! I actually typed that in my initial version of this very thread, with Supica & Nahas open in my lap, when a sudden bout of uncertainty hit me.

*flip through pages*

D'oh! The 53 was a K-frame!

Thank gawd for the edit function! :o

Supica and Nahas list the 3" 625 in .45 Colt as a limited run of 200 for Lew Horton back in 1998. That's a rare bird you have there...even harder to come by than that PC-13.

That's why I traded my frankenFAL when and how I did. With a 3" 610, 624, 627 and 629 already in the bag, my collection is obviously weighted towards 3" stainless N-frames. When a 1-of-200 3" N-frame in a caliber I didn't already have came along, the choice was to jump now or wait however long it took for another one to turn up.

Did I mention that it's in the box with the docs? :cool:

YodaVader
August 3, 2003, 09:31 PM
Nice revolver! Nice pic as well!

Mike Irwin
August 3, 2003, 10:00 PM
"This leaves me, as best I can tell, only one caliber away from having at least one of every production caliber the modern N-frame was offered in; only a .38/44 Heavy Duty to go!"

A worthy goal to which to aspire, Grasshopper!


FYI, if any one is interested, the N frame, since its introduction, has been made in the following calibers (some have been available for sale, others were government contracts by various nations, etc.):

.22 LR (a SMALL number were made, quite valuable)

.30 Carbine (made on spec. for the military during WW II. Very valuable)

.38-40 Win.

.38/44 (a hot loaded .38 Spl., essentially the first +P and predecessor of the .357 Mag.)

.357 Magnum

.44 Russian

.44 Special

.44 Magnum

.44-40 Win.

.45 Smith & Wesson

.45 Colt

.45 ACP

.450 Eley (small number reportedly made

.455 Webley (for Britain and Canada during WW I)

Tamara
August 3, 2003, 10:37 PM
production caliber the modern N-frame

By "production" and "modern", I'm intentionally limiting myself. ;)

.357 Magnum, 10mm Auto, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .45 ACP, .45 Colt down, and only .38-44 Heavy Duty and .38 Super to go! :D

Standing Wolf
August 3, 2003, 10:41 PM
22 LR (a SMALL number were made, quite valuable)

Wow! I had no idea!

Tamara
August 3, 2003, 10:49 PM
The new arrival is third down on the right-hand side. :)

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=412505

Column 1: 57 4", PC627 3", 629-1 3", 610-2 3"
Column 2: 625-4 5", 625-3 4", 625-7 3", 624 3"

Mike Irwin
August 3, 2003, 11:32 PM
Dang it!

I forgot the 10mm, .38 Super, and .41 Mag.! I knew I was forgetting a couple.

I've simply got to start looking at lists when I do something like that.

"By "production" and "modern", I'm intentionally limiting myself."

I'm assuming by "modern" you mean post WW II, and probalby post 1957 when the model numbers were adopted.

Probably smart.

Even a run of the mill .44 Spl. from before 1930 will bring some serious coin.

The .30 Carbine? Last one I heard of changing hands went for close to 5 figures.

The .22 LR?

I've never heard of one for sale, but I suspect it would be well into 5 figures.

Preacherman
August 3, 2003, 11:54 PM
Tamara, what about .44-40? There's a 5" N-frame S&W .44-40 at a local pawnshop that's been sitting there for ages... no-one seems to want it in that caliber. I don't know the model number, though. If you want it, let me know, and I'll negotiate nicely with the pawnshop people for you! :D

4v50 Gary
August 4, 2003, 12:48 AM
N frame in .455 Webley? Ohhh!

Blueduck
August 4, 2003, 01:23 AM
Tamara,

Love the look of the big bore snub nose guns (if 3" still qualifies as snub). I've heard it said though that these guns really just give the "illusion" of concealability and are not really practical.

Any thoughts??

Mike Irwin
August 4, 2003, 02:19 AM
"Tamara, what about .44-40? There's a 5" N-frame S&W .44-40 at a local pawnshop that's been sitting there for ages..."

It's the 544, the Texas Wagon Train Commemorative. It's classified as a Curio & Relic.



"N frame in .455 Webley? Ohhh!"

The original .455s were made 1914-1917 for the British in two separate Models. According to Supica & Nahaus the first 100 were commercial guns sent to Wilkinson sword as part of a separately serialed run numbered from 1 to 5,000.

These guns, the Mark II Hand Ejector First Models, were true Triple Locks with shrouded ejector rods and crane lock.

The British came back with a number of comments and some changes to the gun were made, including dropping the ejector rod shroud (gathered dirt & jammed) and the crane lock.

These are the .455 Mark II Hand Ejector Second Model, and were numbered from 5,001 to 74,755.

Of the two runs, the Canadians took approximately 14,500, the rest went to Britain.

The problem is that when the guns are encountered, they've normally been converted to either .45 Long Colt or .45 ACP.

Apparently the Canadians issued many of these guns to Mounties and other police forces and many have converted some of them to .45 Long Colt themselves.

Unaltered versions bring a premium, with unaltered First Models bringing a substantial premium.

I was at a gunshow a few years ago when a guy brought in a freaking PRISTINE (better than 98%, not refinished) First Model in British regulation holster. Easily a $1,200 combo.

Except that the cylinder had been shaved for .45 Long.

Sob.

I still would have bought it had I had the money.

JackM
August 4, 2003, 03:31 AM
IIRC, ONE .22 Registered Magnum was made, to match the customer's .357. Got to dig that one up, as I think it was in a Guns&Ammo Annual back about 1970.

Bye
Jack

Mike Irwin
August 4, 2003, 03:35 AM
Jack,

That would be interesting if you could dig that up.

I've heard that there were supposedly fewer than 20 made, ostentatiously as training guns to be used for police forces that wanted to start new officers out with something that didn't kick, but the project was shelved.

Randy63
August 4, 2003, 08:22 AM
There were a pair of Registered Magnums built in 1936 for the American Potash & Chemical Corp. in California. They both were blue had 8 3/8" barrels. Registration number 1590 was a .357 Magnum. Registration number 1591 was a .22 long rifle. The .357 cost $60 and the .22 cost $150.

As you all know the $150 price tag for that .22 Registered Magnum was a small fortune back in 1936. That .22 would be my "lotto gun" if it even can be located and bought.

*I found this information in the winter of 1989 Journal of the S&WCA.

*Per the Standard Catalog of S&W with regards to the N frame Triple Locks "Also reported that a small quantity were made in .22 Long Rifle"


K22

Preacherman
August 4, 2003, 12:27 PM
Mike, I've seen a couple of those .455 S&W's in South Africa. South African forces fought alongside British troops during World War 1, and I daresay some of these revolvers were either issued to them, or "swapped" among fighting men (as seems to happen, regulations notwithstanding... :D ). They were probably brought back to South Africa after the war. The ones I saw were still in .455 caliber, as that ammunition has always been available in South Africa. Wonder if I should try to re-establish contact with the guys who owned them, and see if they want to send them over here for sale? The condition of the guns, IIRC, was in the 80% to 90% range, and all of them had military-issue holsters and Sam Browne belts as part of the package. Might be of value to them, and to collectors over here...

10-Ring
August 4, 2003, 03:54 PM
Tamara, you are my hero (after Skunkabilly, of course ;) )! ReeHaw! :cool:

JackM
August 5, 2003, 12:23 AM
Mike, I couldn't find that article about the .22 LR Registered Magnum, but IIRC, K22 has it right. It's around here somewhere, but there's 40 years of gun rags in the attic, and it might take a while. I read it a few years ago when I bought my 28-2.

I have a question for you. If you were at a gun show and found a Registered Magnum and a Triple Lock, both in .22 LR and NIB, and you only had enough change to buy one, which one would you buy? Or would you mortgage your house and sell your firstborn?

Bye
Jack

Mike Irwin
August 5, 2003, 02:03 AM
"If you were at a gun show and found a Registered Magnum and a Triple Lock, both in .22 LR and NIB, and you only had enough change to buy one, which one would you buy? Or would you mortgage your house and sell your firstborn?"

Unless the price was absolutely bargain basement this person doesn't know what he has low to the point where I could make a killing by flipping them, I can answer that very simply.

Neither.

Those are pure, stone cold collector's guns.

I'm not a collector.

I'm a shooter.

ElToro
August 6, 2003, 02:14 PM
Nice gun Tamara... if only they made it in blue and with combat sights..

tex_n_cal
August 9, 2003, 02:23 PM
The Texas Sesquicentennial Commemorative was also a .44-40, and it was a 5". Wish it had been a .44 Special:(
The .44-40 case is known for functional problems unless the cylinders are kept very dry.

These guys www.cccfirearms.com had a Texas Sequi the last I knew, and also a .38-44. Fun place
:D

Tamara
August 9, 2003, 02:33 PM
That's the Model 544; 4,782 manufactured in 1986 only. :cool:

Mike Irwin
August 9, 2003, 03:09 PM
Preacher and I talked about the 544 up around the middle of the thread.

Time was about 5 years ago you could fairly easily find these for sale in Gun Digest.

Now you can't find them for some reason.

tex_n_cal
August 9, 2003, 03:17 PM
Mmmm...as memory serves, the Sesqui and Wagon Train were two different commemoratives...don't recall the model numbers.

Next time I am in Walnut Creek I'll take a look, if it's still there.

hawk0484
August 9, 2003, 03:56 PM
Please keep it up, Tamara. That way I can tell my hubby that there IS another woman out there with as bad or worse addiction than mine.

Becky

Mike Irwin
August 9, 2003, 07:27 PM
"Mmmm...as memory serves, the Sesqui and Wagon Train were two different commemoratives...don't recall the model numbers."

Nope, same gun, the Model 544. Only "modern" S&W revolver made in that caliber.

It was cataloged as the Texas Wagon Train Commemorative, and etched on the side 1836-1986 to commemorate the sesquicentennial.

BluesBear
August 10, 2003, 07:08 AM
If anyone out there knows of anyone selling either a 3" Model 57 .41 magnum or a 3" Model 29 .44 magnum PLEASE let me know.

While I much prefer the blued models I would consider a 657 or a 629 if they had fluted cylinders and no porting.

Oracle
August 10, 2003, 01:55 PM
Those are some beautiful revolvers, Tamara. Congrats on the find!

Mike Irwin
August 10, 2003, 03:13 PM
Blues,

"3" Model 57..."

To the best of my knowledge, S&W never offered a 3" 57. Only 4, 6, and 8 3/8ths.

BluesBear
August 10, 2003, 10:15 PM
Mike,

They were Lou Horton special runs. I saw one here at a Gun Show 2 years ago but by the time I got back from the ATM someone else had grabbed it.

I found a LH 3" 657 last year but the guy wanted an arm and both legs for it.

Mike Irwin
August 10, 2003, 10:56 PM
Blues,


Was it a 57 or a 657?

I know about the 657s, but I've never heard of a Model 57 (blue) 3" done for Horton.

mtnbkr
August 10, 2003, 11:02 PM
sell your firstborn

You can do that? :scrutiny:

Chris

Mike Irwin
August 11, 2003, 01:40 AM
Forget it, Chris...

You don't have a first born yet, and there's no allowances for womb-away purchases! :D

schapman43
August 11, 2003, 01:56 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sell your firstborn
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You can do that?

Chris



Only if your wife doesnt find out, trust me I've tried :)

Kahr carrier
August 11, 2003, 05:05 AM
VERY cool N Frame stable.:)

BluesBear
August 11, 2003, 06:05 AM
Yeah it was a genuine 57 alright. The seller didn't have the box so I am not actually for certain that it was a Lew Horton, but it was factory 3" all the numbers matched. I have seen 3 others just like in in the past 10 years but none of them were for sale. There was one advertised in Gun List about 2 years ago but as usual I missed that one too.

But maybe someday.....
After all a man's got to have a dream.

mtnbkr
August 11, 2003, 11:30 AM
You don't have a first born yet

Soon, Mike, Soon...

BTW, she wants a revolver of her own now. We went to the Bealton show this w/e and while I was checking out a neat 32 cal j-frame, she mentioned how she'd like to get something. We narrowed it down to a Ruger SP101 with 3" barrel or a squarebutt J-Frame of some sort with a 2-4" barrel.

When we got married, she had no desire to shoot or own any guns of her own. :D

Chris

Mike Irwin
August 11, 2003, 02:23 PM
"We went to the Bealton show this w/e"

DAMMIT!

I forgot about the Bealton show!

"We narrowed it down to a Ruger SP101 with 3" barrel or a squarebutt J-Frame of some sort with a 2-4" barrel."

If she wants to try a variety of sizes and powers, she's more than welcome to try mine. I've got 2" and 4" .32s, .38s and others, in a variety of frame sizes.

We could meet at the NRA range sometime after she has the baby.

mtnbkr
August 11, 2003, 03:35 PM
I think Dale City is this weekend.

Thanks for the offer. If she's still interested in a purchase after the baby comes, we'll probably take you up on it. My two revolvers aren't much to base a decision on. The Gp100's too big and the 36 is a tad too snappy for a beginner.

Chris

Mike Irwin
August 11, 2003, 04:43 PM
"36 is too snappy for a beginner"

Not with the right loads.

Tamara
August 12, 2003, 12:47 AM
I forgot the 10mm, .38 Super, and .41 Mag.! I knew I was forgetting a couple.

I've simply got to start looking at lists when I do something like that.

Who's looking at lists? ;)

"By "production" and "modern", I'm intentionally limiting myself."

I'm assuming by "modern" you mean post WW II, and probalby post 1957 when the model numbers were adopted.

I'm using the general "modern" definition of "Post-WWII", and "production" as being a standard catalog item. (Which I guess lets me off the hook on such oddities as .44-40 and .38 Super, although I do still need to track down an Outdoorsman. :uhoh: )

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