[Wanderer]

I'm going back to public school after a year of being homeschooled and have a couple of questions. I am most likely going to be fed a lot of anti-gun stuff, so how do I debate the issue in a way both my 8th grade teachers and classmates will understand, while being civil (ie, not yelling molon labe, then charging the front of the class with a stick of chalk). I have a bit of trouble in the civility department when I know I'm right. I'm going to carry a d.o.j. printout of the rates of deaths in the US, though :neener: . Also, I would like some prayer because I still have to take a standardized math test before I am assigned a team (the schools way of subdividing 8th grade), and it's not exactly my favorite subject, nor my easiest. I also need a notarized copy of my birth certificate submitted and that will hold everything up by 2.5 weeks. You would think because I went to that school district for 6 previous years, they might have the info??? I'd also like prayer because a lot of my friends are on one team and I'd like to be on that one, so any prayer would be nice. Thanks in advance!

[Moparmike]

You cant beat an armed woman...
Ask the 6 million Jews how they felt about not being able to posess weapons in Nazi Germany. Oh wait, you cant---because their all DEAD!
Ask someone how far protesting and speech got us in the 1770's. They got us killed until lots of people started picking up guns.

I could go on, but I am drawing a blank at the moment. Do a search. I dont have the foggiest idea what a good search topic would be though.

I wouldnt start anything until it is quite apparent they are in the wrong. Like if your teacher says that she doesnt like guns, let it slide or ask "why" depending on her mood. Being just out of high school (2 years last May) I know that when a teacher says that you are being an insubordinate, argumentative, instigative little snot, that there is little you can do but go with the flow.:banghead: :cuss:

Good luck.

[telomerase]

>so how do I debate the issue in a way both my 8th grade teachers and classmates will understand,

No problem, just pay for them all to have good private educations so that they understand your references and only then discuss it with them... I really feel for you, it must be tough to go back to the Gulag after tasting free air.

[Wanderer]

Oh yeah, and not being able to count range sessions for gym will be brutal...:banghead:

[Quartus]

let it slide or ask "why" depending on her mood.

Asking WHY and requiring them to SUPPORT their assumptions and allegations will do a lot of damage to their cause without you having to get all hot under the collar. IOW, make THEM argue their case intelligently. They can't of course, so you'll really bug them! :D

And get ye to the JFPO website and the GOA website and do some serious reading. And NEVER quote the NRA or the GOA in argument - you will lose credibilty by association. WE know these folks have it straight, but THEY think otherwise. Know the material, but cite the original source, NOT the website where you read it.

But quote JFPO - it's really politically incorrect to disagree with and attack Jews. Use PC against them in this case. :D


As a homeshcooling father of 5, I hope you can get back to homeschooling soon. There's no good to be had in putting you in publick school.

[NRA Instructor]

God's blessing on you.
I'd suggest you reread the many answers to James Castilla's inquiry. The title was - "im an anti w/questions." This is one of the best collection of ideas, suggestions, and help that anyone facing what you think you may face can have.
It is also something that all of us should reread from time to time. We should all be proud of our efforts.

[Wanderer]

But quote JFPO - it's really politically incorrect to disagree with and attack Jews. Use PC against them in this case.

Better than that, I come from a Jewish family, though I'm Christian in faith. :neener:

[KC]

You are all WRONG! :D
Wanderer, You are being consigned to a publically funded prison camp, where children are to be socialized by contemporaries who are unsocial brutes, and under the supervision of adults who, statistically, couldn't think of anything better to do with themselves after school.

Logic will not work on your classmates (for the most part), and even less so with the instructors. Further: never, ever use the same tone of voice on an instructor as they use on you. This is considered to be rude and disrespectful, and will only get you in trouble. You are considered a child with no rights and no opinion worth posessing. Your would-be teachers and the administrators will always be correct, you will be wrong and spending the afternoon in detention.

So far as prayer goes, there will not likely be a problem, just steer clear of the campus christian groups. These people tend to be fanatics, and every bit as intractible and dogmatic as IRA or Taliban terrorists.


KC

[MPFreeman]

Here's a tip for ya....

Try and incorporate a new word in your lexicon. Instead of saying "Public School", substitute with "Government School".

One little change like that can have a better understanding of what kind of education you'll get. IOW, what the state wants you to know.

[Skunkabilly]

And remember, the line to use in a debate when your back is up against the wall: "That sounds like something Hitler would say."

:D

[Camel]

I feel for you man, I really do. I just escaped the public school system last year and Im not going back. My strategy was always to plot my revenge, because its so much more fun to crush someone after a thorough plotting.

Oh and never threaten to "Dope-slap" a teacher "upside his head". As in "MR. XXX I outta dope-slap you upside the head" that one will get you in trouble :evil:

[Wanderer]

I presume any other form of slapping Mr. XXX is okay? :evil: I found out that my tests gonna be on the 19th, in 16 days. Those seem to be some really good ways to debate. It just points out that when the Government wants all of the civilians gun to keep them safe, they end up getting massacred.:fire: Thanks for the tips, keep em comin!

[Don Gwinn]

:rolleyes:

[another okie]

The two phrases best designed to encourage thinking are

"Why?"

and

"Give me an example."

Sometimes you have to repeat "Why?" several times when talking to someone not used to thinking.

"Why?"
"Because that's what I think."
"Why do you think that?"
"Because everyone thinks so."
"Why do you think that?"
"Because my mommy told me."
"Why did she tell you that?"

etc.

practical notes:

1. Never, never use hypotheticals that involve you or any other real person. This can be perceived as a threat. Say "someone" or "a person."

2. Never start a sentence with "Men..." or "women..." or "boys are..." or "girls are..." or "rednecks are..." or "yankees are..." or any other generalization.

3. The best ways to approach people who are thoroughly brainwashed is to discuss self-defense.

[Henry Bowman]

Prayers your way.

Please keep us posted.

[Chugach]

This may be a great chance for you to find some like-minded people. Any opportunity for JROTC? Shooting club? Hunting or range partners, even if it's air rifle?

The thing that got me through high school was a small, but really incredible, peer group. They pushed me academically and in outdoor sports from biking, swimming, hiking, camping, to shooting.

There are good people everywhere...sometimes takes a while to find 'em.

Prayers for you, Wanderer.

[Wanderer]

Here in PA we have the first day of hunting season off from school. I guess this is a chance for kids to go out opening day with their dads. The other kids here are mixed, some very liberal, declaring the greatness of Marxism and Communism (I know this guy, and he actually does that stuff), and others who go hunting and shooting, and other who don't care either way. They might be more receptive than I think. I'm hoping for the best. On another note, I have taken one of my friends from elementary school and 6th grade to the range twice, and he has gotten to shoot pistols, revolvers, and an AR-15. Its obvious to tell he likes the AR best :rolleyes: . As for JROTC, not until 9th grade I believe, but when the chance pops up, I'll be the first on the signup list.

[Stinger]

I'm embarrased by some of the things that some of you have written.

Plotting revenge...threatening to dope slap a teacher..?

These are exactly the reasons that you should be home schooled. Although I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV, some of you have issues in social situations. There are some wonderful medicines available on the market for social anxiety. Or is that just another form of government mind control?

If I ever did those things my parents would have "doped slapped" me (whatever that means) just for being a dumb-a$$, no matter what the discussion was about.

Sometimes, people, we need to step back a little bit. Life is not about guns. Sure, guns are a wonderful freedom that we are GUARANTEED under the Constitution, but get out of the house every once in a while. If some of the people here would take the tin foil out of their baseball caps for a minute, they might actually enjoy life. :cuss:

Rant mode off:

Seriously, life is too short to carry such a chip on your shoulder.

Stinger

[Quartus]

Now THERE was a strange rant!

:confused:

[telomerase]

>threatening to dope slap a teacher..?

Actually, he said NOT to threaten to dope slap a teacher... and since you don't know what that means any more than I do, I'd be wary of making sweeping criticisms.

Besides, he's just a government school graduate....

[Chugach]

Wanderer, sounds like you'll do great. Good that you've had a chance to get to the range with a friend. Best of luck in your discussions...you seem to be the kind of person who can stay calm when it counts. Sometimes the way you deliver your message is just as important as the message itself.

Best,

Chugach

[Camel]

Hey theres nothing wrong with a little non-violent revenge. Mostly in the form of knowing that when the time comes Im asking for a burger with 1 pickle an onion supersized drink but a small fry.

If you knew that guy you'd have wanted to dope-slap him too. "Umm Mr. XXX the correct answer is F but the answer sheet only goes up to E." "So, you can afford to miss one." "You know Mr. XXX I ought to dope-slap you upside the head." That was on my final exam too.

[Wanderer]

Ouch, but he was outta line too...

[raz-0]

Wanderer, I think you may be gravely mistaken that there will be actual discourse and discussion of subjects. <ostly you will sit around and be bored.

[MicroBalrog]

Wanderer:

http://www.guncite.com for the statistics, I agree with 99% of what they say.

http://www.a-human-right.com for the graphical/rethorical arguments. I printed out some of the posters on www.a-human-right.com and sticked them to my notebooks when I was in school, helped to generate discussion, but YMMV.

[MrAcheson]

Keep in mind the teacher is the authority figure in the classroom. Do not question their authority, demean them, or belittle them. This will simply brand you as a trouble maker and the institution of public education will rally to the teachers defense on principle. The teacher needs their authority to be able to manage the behavior in their classroom and all teachers and administrators know that.

Try to ask good leading questions. Get together with other like-minded students. Its much harder to dismiss something outright when you are not the lone class nutjob. Recognize the teachers authority and be sensitive to their needs as a teacher and also to other members of the classroom, but be firm.

Try to get into the higher level classrooms (honors, advanced, AP, whatever). The teachers tend to be better and also tend to tolerate more discussion, etc. because they and the students can handle it.

Some Anecdotes from a decade ago when I was in Public School:

I remember in 11th grade AP english my teacher (left-wing ex-nun feminazi fruitcake) and I were talking in a small group one day. She said something along the lines of "I know you don't like me very much" and I replied with "yeah, but I'm not going to be a jerk about it." She was one of the worst english teachers I have ever had, but not because she was an uber-liberal.

One of the best english teachers I had ever was my 12th grade AP english teacher (50+ year old gay man). He loved discussion in his class. Once he found out I was a conservative christian, he would call on me to offer a counter argument to the liberal kids in my class. Very seldomly would he interject his own politics unless we specifically asked him what he thought. Yeah he was a left winger, but he was much more interested in getting his students interested in learning than evangelizing them to some political doctrine.

On the other hand my brother who has a much bigger problem with authority than I do, had shouting matches with the former teacher regularly and wasn't much better with the latter. Why? Because he tends to be a jerk about it.

[Elmer Snerd]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?threadid=16678

[Quartus]

Good advice yer gettin' mostly. I think you can recognize which ones. (balrog and MrAcheson at the top of the list, methinks.)

One other thing - KNOW your subject! Read the material over and over, and KNOW it.

And be amused. Be terribly amused. You HAVE the superior position - act like it. No, don't be a snot, but don't let them get under your skin. Be in control. Don't get down to a name calling level.

[BowStreetRunner]

good luck to you wanderer
you sound like you have your head on your shoulders
just keep it there and you'll be fine :)
stand up for what you belive in but dont go to far and antagonize people......
there are two sides to everything, remember that
if there wasnt, we wouldnt need lawyers....
and in a week i will begin to study the long path to the Bar exam.....
mmmm three more years!
BSR

[Wanderer]

I suppose being polite about the issue and not interrupting anyone would be good. I saw a debate on MSNBC (I repented) and the people arguing were constantly yelling at each other and interrupting. How well does that make your point come across? It makes you look like a right or left wing extremist nut that couldn't have a conversation with anyone.

[NRA Instructor]

Wanderer, I sure like this last post of yours. A good attitude will get you everywhere.

And keep smiling, it drives people nuts.

[Combat-wombat]

Wanderer, I'm going into 8th grade, too. All I know is before I am allowed to present any logical arguments or facts about guns in class (last year), I am called a "gun nut", "crazy terrorist person", and "psycho NRA whatever". It sucks going to school with sheeple, you'll just have to live with it.

[Quartus]

Wanderer, Wombat, stand tall and don't surrender.

You young men are in the forefront of the battle. Even if it doesn't seem like you are getting anywhere, you are getting the truth in front of the sheeple. You probably won't win over your teacher, but there are others listening. Remember that. Carry your head high, don't get down on their level, and keep telling the truth.

We can only win them one at a time. We can LOSE them in wholesale lots, though, by losing our cool.


Stay cool, men.

[Wanderer]

I gotta hand it to you Wombat, by the way you talk I assumed you were an adult! Slow progress is better than no progress. I've made it my goal to at least move five people to the middle this year, or to pro-gun. If they do the same, it still grows. Five becomes 25, 25 becomes 125, etc. It's like the movie 'Pay it Forward'. Never saw it, but I know the plot. :cool: