[Pa.Bill]

I have never really given this much thought. (I use Speer Gold-Dot 9mm luger 115GDHPin my carry) I know there is a bunch of 'new stuff' out there.
Anyone have a 'fovorite' personal protection round ?

[highorder]

while I use 230gr Hydrashoks in my 1911, I agree with those that suggest carrying the same load your local LEO's carry, from a legal standpoint.

aside from that, there are many good factory loads available these days.

[Gun Slinger]

while I use 230gr Hydrashoks in my 1911, I agree with those that suggest carrying the same load your local LEO's carry, from a legal standpoint.

aside from that, there are many good factory loads available these days.

That's an excellent starting point, highorder.

PA.Bill,

What you are carrying now is just fine, no need to change unless you feel the need to do so. While I personally prefer the Hornady 147 gr. TAP "CQ" JHP in my Glock 17 since I like "heavy for caliber" bullets at subsonic velocity, you need to consider your needs (sounds like you have) and choose your ammunition accordingly. Don't worry what others have chosen, do what fits you best.

Lots of new premium grade SD loads are available.

Do a little research, find what pleases/suits you the best and the possible scenarios you are most likely to encounter, buy enough to ascertain it's reliability on your carry piece, load up and remember to remain aware of your surroundings.

After that, buy a case of the 'cheap stuff' ( I know, I know.......ammo ain't "cheap" anymore! ) like some decent quality FMJ and practice.......alot.

Maybe get some training of you haven't done so already.

GS

[Soybomb]

http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=000964 is chock full of great advice.

[Keegan]

I agree with those that suggest carrying the same load your local LEO's carry, from a legal standpoint.
I've never heard of doing that. What is the legal benefit? How would one even find out, short of calling up the non-911 number and hoping they'll tell you?

[Gun Slinger]

One of the claimed benefits to making such an ammunition selection is that by using the same loads that the Police are using is that the Prosecutor cannot attack your choice of ammunition if you are charged with Murder (if the BG dies) or Felonious Assault (if the BG lives) since the Police are using it also.

Can't guarantee that it will work in your favor, but it probably won't hurt either, unless the Prosecutor wants to try to portray you as some sort of a "trigger happy cop wanna-be" bent on hunting down people that you percieve as "bad guys" and dispensing your own twisted form of vigilante justice, in order to further his hopes, dreams and aspirations as they relate to his political career, but that never happens.................well almost never. :rolleyes:

All the best,

GS

[FranklyTodd]

I use Winchester LEO Ranger 127gr 9mm +P because it's effective, but also because it's cheap compared to the $1 per round 20 count boxes (what a rip-off that is). The Ranger stuff is $22 per box of 50. The local cops use .40cal, so I'm already under that... ;)

In my .357 snub I currently have Speer GD for Short Barrels, 38+P. I want to try their .357 short barrel load, but haven't been able to locate any (has been out of stock - haven't looked lately).

I don't know if you have to use the same ammo as the cops, but I certainly would avoid handloads (for reliability and jury-appearance reasons) and anything exotic. I would also suggest avoiding anything like the 33rd Glock magazine - I love guns but would have to wonder myself about anyone using one of those for anything other than a novelty...

In my self defense training years ago, the teacher always similarly warned about knives (this was WAY pre-CCW in Ohio). Those uber-tactical black fancy "fighting" knives, in his opinion, were no more effective, they just make you look like you were wanting to have a knife fight, rather than having a practical folding knife as a tool that just happened to be useful for self-defense as well.

[Markbo]

There are 8 or 10 highly considered personal protection loads for each caliber. I shoot all of them I can get ahold of and then choose the one that functions 100% in my guns - run absolutely dry - and that group the best.

The whole '7 yard accuracy' thing to me is stupid. Just because that is the average does not predict YOUR shootout won't be at 21 yards. When TSHTF I want to know my gun is loaded with the most accurate load I can carry. The bullet will do it's job if I do my job.

FWIW None of my possible PD guns all carry the same ammo. They will shoot it... but they are packed with what they shoot best.

[highorder]

How would one even find out, short of calling up the non-911 number and hoping they'll tell you?

hopefully you live in a community where you have developed a relationship with your local police, including personally getting to know a few officers. Isn't that the way it should be? They are here to protect and serve, and in my opinion, the "neighborhood liasion officers" are at the tip of the spear, so to speak.

[Markbo]

Wow. What TVLand community do YOU live in?

I live in the suburbs a mogopolis. If I 'get to know' a cop it is because we somehow became acquaintances outside his work. If anyone has developed a personal relationship with their local police force it is usually because they have been arrested a few times.

I am not saying it is a bad idea, but frankly it has never even occured to me to call up the local Constabulary and have a 'get to know you' meeting. They have about 500-750,000 people in their precinct and I think you would be looked on oddly.

Now if you invite them out to the Homeowners association meetings, they are glad to do so, but you will only meet the brass who goes to those meetings. The COP on the street is never a familiar face and I have lived in the same house for 9 years.

Protect and to serve? Afraid that went out with Adam 12. How wonderfully naive. More like to Serve and to Serve; warrants & traffic tickets.

[Shooter973]

Any good name brand ammo is going to do for me. :scrutiny: After all there are no "Magic" bullets. A good hit is still a good hit with any good ammo. As a consiquense of this view point, I carry White Box 230gr hollows in my carry 45.. and I feel well protected. :)

[novaDAK]

I trust WWB and UMC JHP's...shot enough of 'em to know they're reliable and while the bullets may be "old" technology, they expand reliably and penetrate at least 12-14" depending on the caliber/weight.

[jaydubya]

My S&W 637 Airweight snubby is loaded with Remington 158gr SWCHPs. My Browning Hi Power carries 124gr Speer Gold Dots. Good HD/SD loads.
Cordially, Jack

[highorder]

hopefully you live in a community where you have developed a relationship with your local police, including personally getting to know a few officers. Isn't that the way it should be? They are here to protect and serve, and in my opinion, the "neighborhood liasion officers" are at the tip of the spear, so to speak.

Wow. What TVLand community do YOU live in?

I live in the suburbs a mogopolis. If I 'get to know' a cop it is because we somehow became acquaintances outside his work. If anyone has developed a personal relationship with their local police force it is usually because they have been arrested a few times.

I am not saying it is a bad idea, but frankly it has never even occured to me to call up the local Constabulary and have a 'get to know you' meeting. They have about 500-750,000 people in their precinct and I think you would be looked on oddly.

Now if you invite them out to the Homeowners association meetings, they are glad to do so, but you will only meet the brass who goes to those meetings. The COP on the street is never a familiar face and I have lived in the same house for 9 years.

Protect and to serve? Afraid that went out with Adam 12. How wonderfully naive. More like to Serve and to Serve; warrants & traffic tickets.

I figured I would get a response like that, thats ok. I live in a suburb of Cincinnati that only has about 8,000 people. It's a great place where the local LEO's ARE friendly and DO get to know people. I'ts NOT naive, it's a nice town. I understand it's probably worse where you (and many other) people live, but don't believe that your reality is everyone's reality.

[ETCss Phil McCrackin]

I am currently running the 230gn Fed HST. From what I understand, it's got great performance through clothing and expansion is excellent. None of the plates, bowling pins, or paper targets I have shot yet ever got back up and it runs 100%, so I guess it's pretty good stuff.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/ET1ss_McCrackin/000_0610.jpg

[CWL]

Can someone please name one single case where a person was prosecuted using legal self-defense ammunition?

[41magsnub]

My position as a non lawyer and overall layman is that short of some exotic Mall Ninja-esque extreme shock ammo or the like you will be fine on the ammo choice front if it comes up in court. Just use something normal that is factory loaded and available at a normal sporting goods store. Also, if you have a couple of boxes of the dreaded Black Talon rounds laying around don't use them because of the ridiculous cop killer stigma.

[MarcusWendt]

I've run polls on various gun boards and about every 6 months or so a poll will pop up on this very topic.

Usually the pollster will list most of the well known defensive handgun rounds available to the public.

I have yet to see one of these polls that didn't have the Gold Dots come out far ahead of the next most popular.

I carry the Double Tap 165 grn .40 S&W using Gold Dots. I'm very comfortable with it.

I've shot just about every commercially available common defensive round through all three or four of the handguns I may one day use to protect my or my families life. I make sure they all cycle, are reasonably accurate in my hands and don't have any abnormalities that would cause me concern.

Whatever you choose, make sure it works with your weapon. I'd say you need to fire a few hundred of these rounds at least to determine that it works o.k. well in your firearm.

It's not cheap, but your life MAY depend on it someday.

[spiroxlii]

I carry 102gr .380ACP Remington Golden Saber JHPs in my Bersa Thunder 380. I usually carry 147gr 9mm Winchester USA (White Box) JHPs in my Bersa Thunder 380 and my HS2000.

Right now, I'm out of WWB ammo. I usually try to practice with cheap FMJ ammo with the same weight bullet as my carry ammo, but I end every weekly or bi-weekly practice session by shooting a full mag of my carry ammo. That's how I ran out of WWB. Before I buy more WWB, I'm running through my supply of Remington Express (Green Box) 147gr JHPs and Georgia Arms 147gr JHPs (loaded with a Zero bullet).

[NG VI]

what's the Zero bullet georgia arms uses? I've never heard of it except from them, and i'm starting to really warm up to the 147 loadings for my 9mm.

[spiroxlii]

NG VI, I've had some trouble finding much info about Zero JHP bullets. People who handload for match shooting love Zero bullets in general, but I haven't found any reviews of their JHPs for defensive use. Just from looking at the bullet, it seems to have a similar but not quite identical bullet and jacket design as the WWB ammo. Georgia Arms loads Gold Dot bullets in their 115gr and 124gr 9mm defensive ammo, but they don't offer the Gold Dots in 147gr. When I asked why they use Zero bullets instead of Gold Dots in their 147gr JHP ammo, they said that the 147gr Gold Dots cause cases to bulge so they don't feed as reliably as they should in some handguns.

Georgia Arms isn't the only company that uses Zero bullets for their 147gr JHPs. Atlanta Arms & Ammo uses the Zero JHP in their 147gr 9mm defensive ammo too.

[Eagle1899]

The best ammo you can use, is the one that works every time in your gun. Beyond that, shot placement.

[Blueduck]

Depending on where you live you might want to look at what various large LE agencies have used in that caliber at least for sometime, as opposed to what your local guys carry. The information on what the bigger agencies carry is pretty easy to find out online.

At least then you have a pretty good assurance that it has been thoroughly tested, and with large agencies with more shootings if it was performing badly it would be dropped or at least word would be out about it. Now other factors do enter into their choice that might not affect you, more emphasis on auto glass penetration, Price, Federal Ammo used to at least provide free legal experts to PD's using their ammo for testimony related to shootings. So you may not get the "best" load, but you most likely will get a pretty good one. No one seems to be able to really agree on what "best" is anyways :rolleyes:

"Terrorist Exterminator 2000's" and Black Talons? Ten years working in courts including the back room I could write a giant wall of text on why not to from both legal civil standpoints, but why bother? "Exploder 9000" or whatever ammo of the week has no valid track record, and "Black Talons" are old manufacture, (more collectors items at this point), old tech, and carry a stigma, so why even consider them anyway?

Anyway...NYPD has carried 124+P Gold Dot in 9mm for several years, might be a good pick.

[Blueduck]

Oh.. on asking local police what they carry.

Blueduck swears this on a stack of Bibles...

Years ago as Probation and Parole officer I worked out of a small PD, after becoming friends with a 10 year officer there I asked him what load he carried. He pulled the magazine out and showed me what was clearly a 9mm silvertip. He explained "I carry these, the hole in the top makes them go faster" :)

[BadAndys5oh]

I know a prosecutor in my area that didn't bring up the "stigma" of black talon bullets found in a defendents handgun when he was arrested for P&P. He was more concerned that they were jacketed hollow points that are meant to stop a bad guy better than target ammo and made a big deal about it.

[Mainsail]

Follow this link (http://shootingmessengers.blogspot.com/2006/05/wound-ballistic-workshop.html)or read it here:

Wound Ballistic Workshop

No, it isn't what you think. Cindy Sheehan wasn't cloned then used for target practice, but Federal was out and about to show off their new HST cartridge.


Factory Representatives from ATK (Federal Cartridge, CCI, Speer) were present
Wednesday, November 19, 2003 to demonstrate the features and benefits of ATK
centerfire pistol products when shot
using the FBI Wound Ballistic Testing
Protocol.

Pierce County Sheriff’s Department,
Olympia Police Department, Auburn
Police Department, Thurston County
Sheriff’s Office, and Puyallup Police
Department were in attendance at the
shoot hosted by the Pierce County
Sheriff’s Department at the Pierce
County Training Facility.

Federal HST was the featured ATK product. However, Pierce County elected to shoot
three of their current duty rounds – Winchester SXT, Remington Golden Sabre (sic),
Remington JHP.

*NOTE* - All Winchester and Remington rounds were supplied by the
department. No Competitor rounds were supplied by ATK or Distributor personnel.

Test Events

Bare Gelatin
All rounds typically perform well in bare gelatin, which is the easiest of all test events.
Previous and current generations of hollow point rounds were and are designed to expand
to 1.5 times the original bullet diameter. Federal’s HST rounds were engineered to
expand well beyond twice the original diameter in bare gelatin.

Federal HST 45 ACP – 1.043”/.452” = 2.31 times larger than its original diameter
Federal HST 40 S&W – 0.945”/.40” = 2.36 times larger than its original diameter
Federal HST 9mm – 0.891”/.356” = 2.5 times larger than its original diameter

Bullet Caliber/Weight Penetration Expansion Retained Weight

Federal HST 45 ACP... 230 gr... 12.75”... 1.043”... 100.96%
Winchester SXT 45 ACP... 230 gr... 12.5”... 0.795”... 100.61%
Remington GS 45 ACP... 185 gr... 14.0”... 0.730”... 100.38%

Federal HST 40 S&W...180 gr... 11.5”... 0.945”... 101.78%
Winchester SXT 40 S&W...180 gr... 13.5”...0.658”... 92.67%

Federal HST 9mm...147 gr...11.5”... 0.891”...101.5%
Federal HST 9mm...124 gr...11.75”...0.839”... 101.05%
Winchester SXT 9mm...127 gr...16.0”...0.718”...94.49%

Heavy Clothing
All bullets performed well in Heavy Clothing. Federal HST again demonstrated the
designed expansion characteristics and outperformed all tested rounds for expansion.

Bullet Caliber/Weight Penetration Expansion Retained Weight

Federal HST 45 ACP 230 gr. 14.0” 0.850” 99.65%
Winchester SXT 45 ACP 230 gr. 12.5” 0.773” 101.26%
Remington GS 45 ACP 185 gr. 14.25” 0.704” 102.22%

Federal HST 40 S&W 180 gr. 13.0” 0.788” 101.56%
Winchester SXT 40 S&W 180 gr. 14.0” 0.757” 91.89%

Federal HST 9mm 147 gr. 13.75” 0.689” 102.38%
Federal HST 9mm 124 gr. 12.0” 0.709” 102.26%
Winchester SXT 9mm 127 gr. 13.5” 0.684” 97.48%

_____________________________________

Wallboard

Wallboard is a harder barrier to overcome. While Federal HST performed flawlessly,
Winchester SXT experienced over penetration, plugged bullets, and core jacket
separations.

Bullet Caliber/Weight Penetration Expansion Retained Weight

Federal HST 45 ACP 230 gr. 11.75” 0.843” 100.35%
Winchester SXT 45 ACP 230 gr. 13.0” 0.75” 100.74%
Remington GS 45 ACP 185 gr. 15.25” 0.698” 98.92%
Federal HST 40 S&W 180 gr. 13.0” 0.786” 101.78%
Winchester SXT* 40 S&W 180 gr. 20.0” 0.475” 100.11%
Federal HST 9mm 147 gr. 13.0” 0.649” 100.54%
Federal HST 9mm 124 gr. 12.5” 0.713” 99.84%
Winchester SXT** 9mm 127 gr. 15.25” 0.430” 69.13%
*Bullet Plugged
**Core Jacket Separation

Plywood

Plywood is second only to glass in difficulty when measured in terms of bullet failures
versus expansion and penetration. Federal HST rounds performed as designed and
expanded at least 1.6 times their original diameter. Winchester and Remington both
experienced over penetrations with plugged, poorly expanded bullets.

Bullet Caliber/Weight Penetration Expansion Retained Weight

Federal HST 45 ACP 230 gr. 13.25” 0.858” 101.61%
Winchester SXT* 45 ACP 230 gr. 29.75” 0.452” 99.65%
Remington GS 45 ACP 185 gr. 12.5” 0.679” 99.84%

Federal HST 40 S&W 180 gr. 12.5” 0.772” 100.33%
Winchester SXT* 40 S&W 180 gr. 21.5” 0.402” 99.72%

Federal HST 9mm 147 gr. 12.5” 0.594” 97.76%
Federal HST 9mm 124 gr. 12.5” 0.656” 102.34%
Winchester SXT 9mm 127 gr. 14.25” 0.671” 96.77%
Remington JHP* 9mm 115 gr. 26.25” 0.356” 99.65%

*Bullet Plugged

Steel

All bullets perform similarly when shot through steel. The hollow points are forced
closed and upon close inspection of the gelatin block you will discover steel discs that
have been cut out of the steel plate. Results of the steel testing are in the attached results
document.


Auto Glass

Auto Glass is the toughest and most difficult of all barrier tests. Federal’s new HST
performed amazingly for non-bonded technology. HST retained its core jacket integrity
3 out of 4 shots – 75%. Winchester SXT and Remington Golden Sabre bullets
experienced core jacket separations 100% of the time. It is important to note that in the
event of a core jacket separation, FBI Test Protocol measures only the single deepest
penetrating fragment of the bullet for expansion, retained weight, and penetration. Both
the core and the jacket were mounted separately on the board.

Bullet Caliber/Weight Penetration Expansion Retained Weight

Federal HST 45 ACP 230 gr. 14.25” 0.649” 89.39%
Winchester SXT* 45 ACP 230 gr. 13.75” 0.546” 75.65%
Remington GS* 45 ACP 185 gr. 9.0” 0.511” 63.35%

Federal HST* 40 S&W 180 gr. 11.25” 0.495” 56.94%
Winchester SXT* 40 S&W 180 gr. 7.5” 0.582 67.83%

Federal HST 9mm 147 gr. 11.5” 0.474 81.7%
Federal HST 9mm 124 gr. 11.75” 0.513 82.58%
Winchester SXT* 9mm 127 gr. 11.5” 0.499” 59.29%

*Core Jacket Separation

[Gun Slinger]

Originally posted by Blueduck
Oh.. on asking local police what they carry.

Blueduck swears this on a stack of Bibles...

Years ago as Probation and Parole officer I worked out of a small PD, after becoming friends with a 10 year officer there I asked him what load he carried. He pulled the magazine out and showed me what was clearly a 9mm silvertip. He explained "I carry these, the hole in the top makes them go faster"

And they kill werewolves, too. :D

GS

[NG VI]

especially once you fill the cavity with garlic/silver puree and bake it hard...

[NWdude83]

The following loads all demonstrate outstanding terminal performance and can be considered acceptable for duty/self-defense use:

9 mm:
Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Corbon DPX JHP (Copper Bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP (53617)
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP (53619)
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)

.40 S&W:
Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP (53961)
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP (53966)
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)

.45 ACP:
Barnes XPB 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP (23966)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)

[ETCss Phil McCrackin]

Wow, for once I guess I chose wisely. I for one am pretty tickled by the results posted in mainsail's link.

[Walter]

I usually carry either Winchester SXT or Federal Hydrashoks,
but I have been looking hard at the Corbon DPX .45 acp.
It's a standard pressure load that moves an all copper 160
grain bullet at 1050 fps muzzle velocity. It's supposed to be
"just the ticket" for short barreled auto-loaders such as the
3" 1911, which I carry.
But the darned things are a buck and a half a round. STEEP!:what:
I may still have to get a box, just to see.

Walter

[enfield]

Winchester SXT's or Remington Golden Sabre in .40, Rem Express 158 SWCHP +P in .38 Spec., Remington Express FMJ in .380.

[Clipper]

I see in the NRA magazine, when making some comparisons of similar-weight bullets in 9mm, the good old Winchester silvertip HPs out-expanded the Gold-Dot, and some other hot-rocks bullet used in the comparison. Anyway, I've been using STs exclusively, for both hunting and protection, in every centerfire pistol I've owned for over 30 years, and would never consider using anything else. They've been extremely accurate and absolutely reliable in everything from .380 to .44mag.

[NWdude83]

The list I posted was made by Dr.Gary Roberts (Noted Ballistics and Medical Expert) on TEF.

"Bullet designs like the Silver Tip, Hydra-Shok, and Black Talon were state of the art 10 or 15 years ago. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs. The bullets in the Federal Classic and Hydrashok line are outperformed by other ATK products such as the Federal Tactical and HST, as well as the Speer Gold Dot; likewise Winchester Ranger Talons are far superior to the old Black Talons or civilian SXT's."

[Clipper]

"Bullet designs like the Silver Tip, Hydra-Shok, and Black Talon were state of the art 10 or 15 years ago. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs.

Even I know the silvertip design has been through several refinements over the course of it's life. Sounds like your hero either doesn't know what he's talking about, or has an agenda of his own.

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. When it comes to bullet performance, I'll stick with what works, and has worked, for me.

[NWdude83]

Sounds like your hero either doesn't know what he's talking about, or has an agenda of his own.

One, he isn't my hero. And two, he is an expert. :neener:

[cedjunior]

Even I know the silvertip design has been through several refinements over the course of it's lifeRefinements only go so far to improve an existing design. Sooner or later you hit the limit and your next refinement is a new design all together. Cars of certain make and models get plenty or refinements during their run, but they're still the same car. You only see real improvement once they're redesigned.

Anyway, in my opinion Federal HST and Winchester Ranger T are probably the best designs out there. Here is some test info on Fed HST 9mm & .45 ACP (http://www.btfh.net/shoot/bullet-test-2.html)

[XD-40 Shooter]

Speer 165 grain Gold Dot in 40 S&W for me.:D

[oneiron]

Take it form me some of the LEO ammo you can not buy. Take for example a friend of mine a ATF Agent gave me some 38 Special +P+. You can not find them in any store. Special made for LEO's.
When I was on the force, I did not like the 38's or the 9mm which is just another 38 size load. I want something big and slow: 44 Special or a 45 ACP in a wheel gun. Why? All you have to do is keep pulling the trigger if you have a misfire. Simple guns to use. The secret is trigger control.

[Mainsail]

Anyway, in my opinion Federal HST and Winchester Ranger T are probably the best designs out there. Here is some test info on Fed HST 9mm & .45 ACP

That, and other reports, is why my 9mm is stuffed to the gills with 147gr HSTs and my .45 with 230gr HSTs. OK, I know my pistols don’t have gills so please don’t drag this thread off topic discussing that.

[NWdude83]

There is supposed to be a new Ranger T coming out. Only available to LE at first.

[NWdude83]

I have 147gr Speer 9mm GoldDots in my carry. I also have 230gr Speer .45ACP GoldDots in my 1911.

[golden]

I use 9m.m. +P, ususally 124 grain. There are several makers and most of them are just about equal. Winchester, Speer, Federal and Remington all have effective +P loads.

When I use a .40, I go with Remington 155 grain JHP. I was issued this load and still have some, I that is what I stick with.

I also use the Remington 125 grain semi jacketed hollow point in my .38

Jim

[ObsceneJester]

I use Ranger T 147JHP for my 9mm and Federal HST-165 for my .40 S&W

[CJ]

Can someone please name one single case where a person was prosecuted using legal self-defense ammunition?

While not the direct reason for the prosecution, the DA in the Harold Fish case managed to use caliber choice (and even the fact that he used hollow points) to help sway a jury:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15199221/page/2/

It's a pretty aggravating read at many levels, and it seems his defense team was somewhat incompetent if everything is exactly as the article says, but here's a quote from a section in there:

"The firearms investigator said that Fish’s gun — a 10mm — is more powerful than what police officers use and is not typically used for personal protection. And the ammunition Fish used to shoot Kuenzli three times, called “a hollow-point bullet,” is made to expand when it enters the body."

[ABCDE]

SD rounds in my carry guns are 9mm 147gr Speer GDHP & .38SPL+P 158gr LSWCHP.

[johnle]

less talk, more practicing!

Use any one of the big name SD rounds and put the rounds where they count and it won't really matter what you're using.

For cops it does more so, because they have to sometimes shoot through car glass and doors. But for home defense and general conceal carry use, good situational training is FAR more important then sitting there and slaving over HOURS of documentation about what round expands more. Get out there, and practice, practice, practice then load up on some decent ammo and be safe.

[hotpig]

There is supposed to be a new Ranger T coming out. Only available to LE at first.


All Ranger ammo is restricted sale to LE by Winchester.

The second generation T-Series is about a year behind in production. Winchester is scheduled to make Ranger ammo this year.

[NWdude83]

What do you guys think of these?

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/32141-18848-207.html

[bowl443]

147 JHP Winchester White Box for the 9mm Luger

[buzz_knox]

All Ranger ammo is restricted sale to LE by Winchester.

That's Winchester's official policy (likely due to the Black Talon fiasco). However, the ammunition is readily available from many sources.

[novaDAK]

Years ago as Probation and Parole officer I worked out of a small PD, after becoming friends with a 10 year officer there I asked him what load he carried. He pulled the magazine out and showed me what was clearly a 9mm silvertip. He explained "I carry these, the hole in the top makes them go faster"
Sorry but that reminded me of a Simpsons episode:

Homer: Hey, what are all these holes? (points at bullet holes in car hood)
Car Salesmen: These are speed holes. They make the car go faster.
Homer: (impressed) Oh yeah, speed holes.

[Markbo]

...but don't believe that your reality is everyone's reality.


Highorder, that is exactly why I posted what I did. Because I knew my situation was obviously different than yours.

[hunterSthompson]

i shoot 180-grain federal hst works great in my beretta 9000s

[abrink]

I carry my ruger p95 with 9mm federal hydrashock +P+ ammunition. I know what i'll say if the prosecutor uses that against me.

[DerbyDale]

I carry my ruger p95 with 9mm federal hydrashock +P+ ammunition. I know what i'll say if the prosecutor uses that against me.


If your using Hydra-Shock's then you may have a good defense since your using an old, outdated, and poor performing design. Hydra-Shocks biggest problem is they tend to get plugged easily causing them not to expand. This made them little better than regular ball ammo.

This problem is why Federal went back to the drawing board, and come up with the HST line of defensive rounds. The HST does not suffer from the poor performance problems that plagued the Hydra-Shocks.

[Bezoar]

choice in what your gun is fed depends upon you, your gun, and how well you can shoot with that particular cartridge.

A side note on cartridge selection, in the hornady sight, 44 special cowboy ammo delivers more muzzle energy and technically more stopping power then their best .38 Special +p hollow point load.