Ruger MkII questions and mag problem

[pepperbelly]

I have a Ruger MkII that I have been using for falling plate matches as well as bullseye. It had a 5.5" bull barrel, and I was never really happy with the accuracy. My dad has 3 and all shot much smaller groups.
I recently installed a VQ LLV comped upper. I haven't had time to see what it is capable of yet. (It sucks to have to work for a living.) What level of accuracy can I reasonably expect with this upper?
I have a wide smooth VQ trigger in it that I really like, and the pull is around 2# to 2.5#, is smooth and I have adjusted the overtravel so I may not mess with the trigger.
I also have a Leupold-Gilmore reddot scope on it. I also have VQ Volthane grips- they really feel good in my hand, especially after adding a little skateboard tape here and there.

The only gripe I have now is the mags. I cannot get the pistol, wither either the old or new upper, to feed match ammo. I have tried Eley Sport and RWS Rifle Target, but both ride nose low in the mag and hit the bottom of the feed ramp hard enough to cut the nose of the bullet and jam the pistol. It is killing me since that ammo shoots very accurately, when I can get it loaded.
Does anyone have any tricks or tips I can try to get these mags working? They feed Winchester Super-X and Federal bulk just fine.
I shot an 823 and an 824 and my first clean last fall in bullseye with both the Federal and Winchester ammo. I usually have a few strays and figure my wobble combined with the ammo to get me X-ring hits.

Can anyone think of anything else I may have overlooked?

Jim

[3 gun]

Did this new ammo work before? If yes then double check your install of the new upper. If no, is it only the first round? Last round? Never the same twice? It could just be this ammo doesn't want to work in your gun. Try it in one of the others. Try those other mags in yours. You may just find an easy answer or you may need a witch doctor.

[pepperbelly]

Old upper and new upper, never the same round although the top round seems to always sit low.
I am convinced it's the mags.

Jim

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

Wow, for that kind of money you could have bought a Pardini or Used Hammerli 208 for Bullseye, and kept the Ruger all stock for falling plates. I'd rather own two guns. To each his own though.

There's a bit of a trick some of us use for Timed/Rapid for the softer lead of the match ammo. -A half-drop of thin oil on the bullet of top round for a string of 5. Works wonders.

Other than that, I would call Ruger and get some new magazine springs and or followers. Tell'm yours are corroded or something. Don't tell Ruger that you've changed the upper. I have two mags that won't function properly -as reliably as I want them to, for Timed/Rapid fire, so I use them for Slow fire. The spring tension is noticably different between those and the ones I reserve for faster shooting. (less tension) So, if I were to tune them, I would start with changing/adjusting mag springs.

Other than that, disassemble your magazines and clean/lubricate them thoroughly.

Accuracy? The VQ should be a touch nicer than a good Ruger. I've only handled one, and what strikes me most about them is the balance. Personally I would have sent your inaccurate one back to Ruger for analysis. I have put mine and other's Ruger MKII's in Ransom rest to test ammo, and have found them all to print less than 1 1/2" at 25yds. Finding the right ammo the barrel likes will often get them down to right around 1" at 25yds. -And it's not always with the expensive match ammo! I've seen two factory Rugers get better than 1" 'One Ragged' hole at 25yds. But don't expect that VQ to do any better than that. The ammo just isn't capable. I don't think the twist of the VQ is designed for high vel either.

-Steve

[pepperbelly]

Jack, I don't know how much those pistols cost, but this upper was only $300.00.
I called Ruger about the problems with the mags. These are only about 2 or 3 years old. I bought them as kits from Ruger, and I don't believe I have ever loaded more than 6 rounds in any of them. The springs are definately still strong. I have cleaned the mags and lightly lubed them, so I have no idea what to think about this.
One thing I was thinking of is that the ammo I am having trouble with all have a light coating of wax or some other lube on them. The Federal and Winchester don't. I also have some old CMP/DCM .22 ammo made by Olin- Winchester. It comes in white bricks and is intended for junior competition I think. I also has that coating on it. Someone told me once that that ammo was really intended for bolt rifles. Is it possible that the ammo I am trying is also more intended for bolt rifles and I need to find some semi-auto pistol match ammo? I know that's really reaching but I am getting stumped.

Jim

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

OK, the LLV upper isn't all that easy to find on the VQ site anymore. I was looking at the prices for full pistols.

I still would have sent your original barrel back to Ruger.

In reference to the magazines, Too much spring pressure can lead to feed issues. Like I say, my rapid fire mags have less spring in them than the two I have that are much stiffer. (Even those weaker sprung mags that I reserve for SF still work 99.5% of the time.)

Light coating of wax on match bullets. Yeah, I hate that stuff. I won't shoot Wolf or some of the others. I find that CMP, Aguila, WinT22, Federal Auto Match, CCI Green, Remington Target, or even WinX feed quite well through my MKII's.

Making sure you have a very clean chamber is the first step. I would get at least one mag spring from Ruger. Experament by taking a bit of spring tension/length out until it works for you. But, you might need more tension. Load with ten rounds and see how things feed. You'll have to figure out what your pistol/feed ramp likes. As a long shot.. If your bullets are pointing up, then I've got to think that the spring is backwards or the follower is damaged/backwards. Try someone else's mags and see how things work.

-Steve

[pepperbelly]

The problem is that the bullets sit in the mag with the nose low, not pointing up. I can easily push the nose up on the first round but obviously not the others.
I have tried a couple of old mags I have, all of my newer mags, and dad's mags. They all do the same thing.
I may still send my barrel in to Ruger. If they can do something with it I may try to find a frame for my VQ upper and put the barrel back on my frame.
I really don't need an excuse to have another pistol. I kind of like the idea of a dedicated plate pistol and a dedicated bullseye pistol. Then I would need one with iron sights for the EIC leg.
Then I can accumulate more 1911s. Man, I really need to win the lottery or something.

Jim

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

Bullet down? Flat as opposed to slightly up. That would tell me that the mag isn't tuned right. Multipal mags, now that's weird. There's a tab at the heel, that when the next round is pushed up by the follower that should engage the rim and actually point the nose up a bit. This can be manipulated a bit, not much, but a bit. But that would, to me point to not enough spring tension. So, I wonder if a full mag will fire the first five just fine.

Other than that, a polished ramp will send the nose up faster when feeding. So, are the bullets gouging, getting stuck on the high side, or on the low side?

That's where I look in that if your mags work fine with the same match ammo in a different pistol, then I can't fault magazines. But when you change uppers, using the same magazines/ammo that function fine elsewhere, then I have to fault the lower frame. That would seem to be the only consistant item. Something to do with alignment of the mag to the upper.

You're seeing what's really happening. One thing when trouble shooting this sort of thing is to eliminate the variables you have control over. I would use one sort of ammo that consistantly provides feed failure. Stock upper and lower. Now you're down to magazines/tuning, but when they work fine in your dad's pistol, then I gotta wonder. But, does his lower work with your mags, with your upper? If so, then you've got issue with your lower, and Ruger should be able to help you with that.

Yeah, I know, I introduced another component, but I think it needs to be investigated. The lowers are just stamped steel. Not high tech/forged. Ruger should work with you on this.

-Steve

[Shooter57]

You may have some dirt or something in the magazine (lint),take the mag apart and clean them.

[pepperbelly]

I really don't know what to think now. I went to the range this afternoon and it fed all of the ammo well. The RWS Rifle Target grouped slightly better than the Eley Sport which was slightly better than the Winchester Super-X. The surprise I git came from some old DCM white box ammo made by Olin (Winchester). It grouped almost as well as the others. I had considered it practice ammo and had problems with it feeding also.
The day was windy so the group size is a little suspect with a few flyers, but this was more of a function test anyway.
The only thing I did differently was to snap the mag button slightly when a round seemed to stick nose down. I have no idea if that was the problem, but I won't argue with success. With the Eley Sport being about $1.60 per box that will probably be the ammo I use for Bullseye competition.

Jim