[CMichael]

I was watching Conquest on the History Channel.

They were using Matchlocks, Flintlocks's and Kentucky rifles.

I was a little concerned that they didn't use eye or ear safety gear.

In fact you can see the power going into the participants' face when they pulled the trigger.

[Camel]

Yeah I noticed that too.

[Cosmoline]

Is it just me, or do some of his creative anachronism helpers vanish from one episode to the next? Hmmm.

It's patently INSANE to fire off a batch of flash powder next to your eyes without some protection. I'd wear goggles and glasses. Getting a chunk of white-hot burning powder or bit of flint in your eye can't be a fun experience.

[Keith]

The show is trying to be historically accurate. I like the fact that the people using the weapons have to do so under the same handicaps and limitations that would have been current in the period.

Keith

[Cosmoline]

Sure, but frankly I'd have them go unwashed and get some weird sanitary diseases before I had them not wear eye protection. Does he have them get the runs and then have to fight in full plate armor? No, but that would be quite accurate.

[Sean Smith]

I like the show, and frankly am glad that they can do a show about weapons and combat without breaking down and saying "weapons are evil, boo hoo hoo."

What's next, having Civil War re-enactors running around with ear defenders and Oakleys? :p

[greyhound]

Actually, I think one guys flint broke and almost hit someone else in the eye.

The show on knife-fighting was cool too!

[braindead0]

Actually, I think one guys flint broke and almost hit someone else in the eye.

It actually struck the guy in the eye, probably the eyelid or very low impact, but he said his vision was blurry..

I thought it was strange too, when I did a lot of 16th century re-enactment, most of the guys at least wore glasses (simple round frames) which seems to be a decent compromise.

[Keith]

Do you wear ear and eye protection when you go hunting? I don't, even though I sometimes hunt with muzzle loaders.

Keith

[CMichael]

Keith I understand your point. I thought of it too.

However, I think the safety of the participants and be first and foremost.

As far as your hunting analogy, most modern guns don't fire back that level of powder into the shooter's face.

I think the flint broke and cut someone's hand.

I don't remember an eye getting hit...

[Cosmoline]

Ear protection? Only in the off ear, with magnums anyway. Eye protection? YES, always. For both blowback danger and to avoid getting a branch of devil's club across my eyeball. It's good common sense.

You can get away with a bit of abuse to your ears (though not much), but abuse your eyes even once and they may not be there again.

[Dr.Rob]

Yes yes eye protection. Even funnier was peter showing 'how to do it" then FLINCHING so bad that in replay BOTH his eyes were shut before he pulled the trigger.

[Mike Irwin]

I talked about this in a thread last week, or possibly the week before.

The one shooter even says that he was cut by fling shards of flint, and had a piece go into his eye, when the flint on the next shooter's gun grenaded.

They're not setting a very good example.

[Mike Irwin]

"Do you wear ear and eye protection when you go hunting? I don't, even though I sometimes hunt with muzzle loaders."

Yes, I do.

[Keith]

Well then , you must hunt on private game farms from a stand or something. I can't imagine trying to stalk game in an actual wild setting with safety glasses and ear muffs on.

Keith

[Kaylee]

flinter?

eye protection makes perfect sense. At least the few I've fired (outside, no roof) were mull of a dull boom than a sharp crack.. I wouldn't make a habit of it, but I doubt a few shots without ears would be harmful. Not unless you loaded up past the sound barrier anyhow....

-K

[Mike Irwin]

"Well then , you must hunt on private game farms from a stand or something. I can't imagine trying to stalk game in an actual wild setting with safety glasses and ear muffs on."

Wrong on all counts.

My eye glasses are shatter resistant polycarbonate. Same thing they make shooting glasses out of. Damned expensive, but worth it.

My hunting was on State Game lands in Pennsylvania, or on the farms of any of the many farmers I knew.

For ear protection I've used either the valved ear plugs (Silencios?, can't remember) or the muffs that amplify sound. Both allow excellent hearing with excellent hearing protection.

[4v50 Gary]

Not to be macho, but I've shot black powder w/out hearing or eye protection and it isn't bad at all. Huh? Is that somebody laughing at me? If I can see you and I'm wrap my hands around your neck. ;)

[swingset]

File this under the "gun guys need to get a life" thread.

Ever seen a historical movie, such as "The Patriot", "War & Peace" or "Last of the Mohicans"????

Ever seen any eye or ear protection on the actors/reenactors shooting black powder weapons?

The Conquest guys ARE doing things the way they were done historically, and I am very sure they sign waivers and realize the potential for injury exists. What if they were riding early bicycles, would you guys come on here and cry that they weren't wearing helmets or kneepads?

They're responisible for themselves, just like Joe Biker riding his harley, me skateboarding in my youth, or Keith hunting without eyes/ears.

It's not like they start the show by saying "Do what we do, in the exact manner in which we do it kids.":rolleyes:

(sorry, the safety-safety-safety dance sometimes gets a bit tedious. I'm off soapbox now)

[TexasVet]

Geez, a life with no risk must get really boring!
And frankly, really boring is worse than not living at all.

[Mike Irwin]

A life with no eyes is probably even more boring...

[CMichael]

That trip to the emergency room can be pretty exciting :eek:

[Keith]

The shows with edged weapons are far more dangerous than those with firearms. They actually battle each other with swords, axes, daggers, maces, etc.
Now, I'm sure the argument could be made that it would be far safer to do the scenes with rubber weapons, but how historically correct would that be? Does a rubber sword convey the same danger to the opponent it's being swung at?
How "real" would a fight staged with such weapons be, when the fighters have no real reason to fear their opponent or his weapon?

Now look at the firearms. Does a flintlock have the same capacity to make the shooter close his eyes upon firing if done so with safety glasses? Does it have the same capacity to make the shooter flinch if fired with ear protection?
These guys are firing these weapons with the same drawbacks that early soldiers had to contend with. And it shows - you could see these guys closing their eyes as they pulled the trigger and you could see the marksmanship that resulted.

That's the way it was and I'm glad the show demonstrates it that way. If they used rubber swords and earmuffs we wouldn't be talking about it because none of us would be watching it.

Keith

[4v50 Gary]

The vast majority of soldiers in the flintlock era were taught to "present" their firelocks, not "aim" them. Closing one's eyes was not detrimental to volley fire which was the sought after effect.

[Keith]

Closing one's eyes was not detrimental to volley fire which was the sought after effect.

I disagree. Even in volley fire you still have to level and point (if not aim) your rifle at the mass of troops opposite you. If you close your eyes and flinch at the moment of firing, your ball is less likely to find its mark.
The point is that soldiers with flintlocks wore no eye or ear protection and that fact affected their marksmanship to some degree. The show demonstrated that.

Keith

[CWL]

There are groups on re-enactors here and in Europe who shoot black powder weapons without eye protection. These number in the hundreds.

In USA, there are Civil War (though cap n ball folks)
In USA there are War of Independence folk.

In Europe there are Napoleonic re-enactors as well as Pike and Shot folks who do shoot matchlocks in period costume.

I have seen Japanese samurai re-enactors shoot matchlock guns that had to have at least a 1-inch bore.

Danger & dirt is part of the fun and recreation.

[jason10mm]

I'm of the opinion that most of his "buddies" are stunt men of some type rather than just drinking buddies he cajoled into fighting for a weekend. In that sense the lack of basic safety gear isn't as bad as it seems, though just from a role model perspective I would rather have them be in proper gear (even when doing melee combat, they ought to have eye protection). The SWAT episode was by far the best though, he really got them into team mode and they went up against a real SWAT team at the end (much more fun that having them going against each other).

[FireInTheHole]

Did anybody else find it odd that there was no mention of wadding for either of the three guns fired? I mean, they had the paper package right in front of them.... *shrugs*