[Futo Inu]

John Ashcroft said on a Sunday morning show that the War on Terror is a "permanent condition". Therefore, I should never again hear the argument that all the unconstitional crap like the Patriot Act is "only temporary", for the exigent circumstances of a "war", just as during WWII, correct? :cuss:

[4v50 Gary]

You betcha. A right once lost is never regained. :uhoh:

[Augustwest]

I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you!

I mean, didn't they say we'd win the war on terror?

I'm starting to think I can't trust the government. ;)

[Tamara]

"Of all the enemies of public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies. From these proceed debts and taxes. And armies, debts and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the dominion of the few... No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare."

That quote is from known wild-eyed anarchist, James Madison.

How anyone could think that a "War On Terrorism" isn't a blank check for a perpetual state of emergency is completely beyond me. "Terrorism" isn't a place, or a people or an organization, it's an action. You can no more "win the war on terrorism" than you could "win" a "war" on, say, murder or shoplifting. As long as there are humans on this globe, there will be terrorism. As long as we go bleating to the government to save us from it by taking away some of our rights, those who desire power will happily take from us what we offer.

...and if you're waiting for them to declare "victory" and give you your rights back, well, I wouldn't hold your breath while doing so. Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were defeated quite some time ago, but I notice that the "emergency provision" of income tax withholding hasn't gone anywhere. ;)

[buzz_knox]

YES!!! YAHOO!! That means my "it's possibly temporary" transfer from employment law (which I loved and was fairly succesful at) to handling all the legal matters for my agency brought about by federal security initiatives is now permanent like I feared.

:barf: :barf: And again. :barf:

[Iain]

Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were defeated quite some time ago, but I notice that the "emergency provision" of income tax withholding hasn't gone anywhere.

Our pubs still close at 11pm (10.30 on a sunday) a measure introduced as an temporary one during the First World War.

[Tamara]

Perhaps someone needs to be informed that Kaiser Bill the Deuce abdicated quite some time ago. ;)

[Combat-wombat]

Well, duh. What would officially end the War on Terror? How do we win? We don't know. There is no end to this war. Just like the "War on Drugs" or the "War on Poverty", it has no end. It will keep going, and going, and going, until we turn in to something like 1984 for "homeland defense" issues. Big Brother is watching you.

[buzz_knox]

Perhaps someone needs to be informed that Kaiser Bill the Deuce abdicated quite some time ago.

To quote the Master of the Boomstick, "it's a trick. Get an ax." ;)

[Iain]

There are supposedly measures under way to alter the restrictions of opening hours. As long as we don't declare war on terrorism and they get set to 7pm. Actually, if that happened there would be riots.

Terrorism being a ''threat'' from anyone at any times really there will be no end to this ''war''.

[rick_reno]

WAR IS PEACE

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

Don't concern yourself with the details of this war, go home and have a stiff shot of Victory Gin. Remember, participation in the Two Minutes Hate is mandatory.

[Keith]

We can already see the Patriot Act falling apart as various states refuse to comply - Alaska most recently.

But don't kid yourself about the "War On Terror". We can declare it over tomorrow but the guys drooling over their Korans aren't going to stop plotting new and innovative ways to kill Americans in wholesale quantities.

It's apples and oranges. We can do away with the Patriot Act (and should) but no amount of "making nice" to Islamic fanatics is going to stop the war.

Keith

[Tamara]

Nobody in this thread has said anything about "making nice" to criminals, terrorists, or enemy soldiers, no matter what book they may be "drooling over".

On the other hand, just because someone hijacks a plane or blows up a building it doesn't mean that the U.S. Constitution is null and void.

[Glock Glockler]

"Nothing is as permanent as a temporary emergency"
-Heinlein

[Keith]

On the other hand, just because someone hijacks a plane or blows up a building it doesn't mean that the U.S. Constitution is null and void

I agree, and had you read my post you'd have known that.

What I'm pointing out is that the two things (the war and civil liberties infringements) only have to be linked if we allow them to be. There seems to be a number of people who can't separate the issues.

Keith

[greyhound]

War? What war? When the American people said, "What can we do? Plant a Victory garden? Ration?" they were told to keep shopping.

We had a three month period where the American pople were united, angry, and ready to sacrifice like previous generations and the powers that be squandered it, if indeed that wasn't the plan all along.

If President Bush had invaded Iraq in January 02, we wouldn't be in this mess. But he waited, and the sheeple got back to normal, squabbling over little things like what some singer or actor said, missing college basketball players, and chucking bricks through Starbuck's windows.

I challenge anyone to prove to me that more Americans are concerned about future terror attacks than care who will win the next American Idol.

[sm]

"He had no difficulty in disposing of the fallacy, and he was in no danger of succumbing to it. He realized, nevertheless, that it ought never to have occurred to him. The mind should develop a blind spot whenever a dangerous thought presented itself. The process should be automatic, instinctive, Crimestop, they called it in Newspeak." --1984

[rock jock]

War is the parent of armies. From these proceed debts and taxes.
Taxes exist indepedently of war and armies.

[Tamara]

Taxes exist indepedently of war and armies.

Don't tell me, tell James Madison... (After all, what does he know about how our government is supposed to run? ;) )

[faustulus]

You can no more "win the war on terrorism" than you could "win" a "war" on, say, murder or shoplifting. ]
or a war on drugs?
And no offense Futo, I don't think anyone was under the impression this 'war' would ever end. At least not until America has been destroyed, of course we are well on the way to doing that.

[TallPine]

And of course a 9-11 type event will be needed every so often to keep up the people's willingness to continue the WoT ...

So don't expect the feral govt to do anything particularly effective to protect our country in the midst of all this (which of course they aren't, as anyone can see).

[Glock Glockler]

On the other hand, just because someone hijacks a plane or blows up a building it doesn't mean that the U.S. Constitution is null and void.

It wouldn't be the Constitution that is null and void but the Bill of Rights which gets tossed to the curb. Aside from that, Madison was a big govt Consolidationist, nothing even close to someone like Hamilton, but he was not a Jeffersonian believer in limited-govt. I wouldn't think one such as yourself would use him as a compass:)

Taxes exist indepedently of war and armies.

Yes, but war is the health of the State and poison to the people. In wartime freedom is restricted, taxes go up, govt gets more powerful, and it stays that way even after the war is over. War produces nothing but waste and misery, and is best avoided if possible.

[Tamara]

I wouldn't think one such as yourself would use him as a compass

Who's using him as a compass? If Madison said that, you can imagine where I stand. ;)

'Course, what's funny is that the biggest statist Federalists among the Founding Fathers look like loonie-toon anarcho-capitalists next to today's "Conservative Republicans". Witness a certain post above. ;)

[Waitone]

The war against islamofascist terrorists will end and we will win. No alternatives exist.

However, just as soon as it is clear we won against that enemy, the federales will whistle up another boogie man. Far be it from government to roll back its authority.

[Giant]

Quote:
' "John Ashcroft said on a Sunday morning show that the War on Terror is a "permanent condition". Therefore, I should never again hear the argument that all the unconstitional crap like the Patriot Act is "only temporary", for the exigent circumstances of" '

I beg to differ, IIRC the channel was CNN, the person was not Ashcroft, but Tom Ridge, Director of Homeland Security.

No matter though, they are only politicians. To them the war on terror is a permanent condition, for it gives them a permanent purpose, an ememy that is despised by all, a reason for higher taxes and useless programs...

As for The Patriot Act, it is only temporary if Congress does the right thing and allows it to expire.


Giant

[AnchorYanker23]

and there is no terrorism.

remember how we won the war on drugs, and there are no more drugs?:barf:

[Orthonym]

So here it is, with emphasis:

"War is the Health of the State. " - A. J. Nock

[buzz_knox]

So don't expect the feral govt to do anything particularly effective to protect our country in the midst of all this (which of course they aren't, as anyone can see).

There's that nasty trend to think the gov't wants something like 9/11 to happen to keep it in power. By the same token, shouldn't we ask how many gun owners were salivating on 9/11, thinking this was the event that would bring down the government and create the anarchy that all gun owners secretly crave?

[seeker_two]

By the same token, shouldn't we ask how many gun owners were salivating on 9/11, thinking this was the event that would bring down the government and create the anarchy that all gun owners secretly crave?

NONE from what I've seen here & other BB's... :neener:

There's that nasty trend to think the gov't wants something like 9/11 to happen to keep it in power.

Tell me that AFTER we count how many school shootings/mass murders occur b/t now & the AWB sunset...:scrutiny:

[buzz_knox]

NONE from what I've seen here & other BB's...

Really? Haven't been looking closely have you? I've seen that same sentiment conveyed here and on other boards, namely that anarchy is a good thing and that we need some catastrophe to bring the gov't down so it will flourish.

As for how many mass shootings take place between now and the AW sunset, I thought the sense of the board was that it was groups like HCI and their counterparts who were most likely to instigate things?

[seeker_two]

Really? Haven't been looking closely have you? I've seen that same sentiment conveyed here and on other boards, namely that anarchy is a good thing and that we need some catastrophe to bring the gov't down so it will flourish.

We ARE reading the same THR, aren't we? :scrutiny: (Unless your view of "anarchy" is a government w/ limited power that doesn't interfere in the lives of its citizens a-la US Constitution---then we've got a problem. :rolleyes: )

As for how many mass shootings take place between now and the AW sunset, I thought the sense of the board was that it was groups like HCI and their counterparts who were most likely to instigate things?

But who will lobby for the laws? And who will pass the laws? I'm not saying that there's a conspiracy, but there sure are a lot of coincidences that keep occuring at most inopportune times...:uhoh: