[sturmruger]

It is interesting how much difference there has been in my retail expierences between shopping for a mattress and shopping for a new gun. Now I know everyone is going to say that they are totally different, but I think they are allot the same. A good quality mattress will set you back at least $500, and they are a very individual thing. You can get a firm, soft, pillow top, or you could choose to get a air bed or one of those beds that is motorized like a hospital bed. There are tons of options in mattresses. We all know there are tons of different options in guns as well. What got me started on this whole subject is the extreme contrast between both retail experiences.

When my wife and I first entered the Mattress store we were immediately greeted by he store manager. He introduced himself and told us to go ahead and browse around. He would send over a salesperson a bit. We looked at mattresses for about 10 minutes when a nice guy in his late 20s approached. He introduced himself and asked us if he could get us a pop or some ice tea. He asked us what beds we had tried so far. This was the first mattress store we had been to so we were unsure of the policy on getting on the mattresses. He told to please take of our shoes, gave us a couple of pillows, and told us he would get us our drinks and check back with us after we had tried out a few of the mattresses. He came back with our pop and asked us if we had any questions about the different styles, and options. We talked about mattresses options for a while. I then asked about a competitor’s ad that I had seen in the paper. He was happy to talk about the competition, and even offered to match any price that they were advertising on a comparable mattress. We left the store feeling educated and pleased with the help we have been given in choosing what mattress would be the right one for us. They wrote down what they wanted for the mattress we liked and offered to throw in the delivery and setup. I told them that we obviously had expensive tastes because the mattress we both like was out of our price range by about $125. I got a call back from the salesperson two days later asking us if we would be willing to buy the mattress for what we had budgeted ($125 less then they offered in the store). I gave him a credit card over the phone and they delivered the mattress the next day. It was an overall positive experience.

My last trip was to a local gun shop here in SE Iowa. I have lived in this area for 2+ years, and I have been into this shop at least 20 times. I have spent money about half the time usually on accessories and ammo. I have bought one gun a used Ruger MK-1. Every time I have ever entered the shop the most I have ever received in greeting is a gruff Hello. He has never bothered to learn my first name. Any time I have asked to look at a gun behind the counter the guy sighs and slowly gets up off his stool. The whole time I am examining the gun he just stands there saying nothing. He doesn’t tell me anything about how it works, where he got, what he thinks or anything. After I hand it back to him he will go back and sit down on his stool and look bored. The whole time I am in the store looking at accessories I feel like he is expecting me to stuff a bunch of scope rings down my pants and make a run for it. The few times I have asked have asked for a better deal he has never counter offered. Last month I asked if I could exchange a forend that I bought for my Mossberg 500, for some ammo. He told me flat out “NO” I left mad and will never go back.


Now I will be the first to admit that gun storeowners have to put up with allot of crap. I am sure there are tons of people that come in thinking they are experts. They show up and want debate the storeowner on what guns he should carry, and what he should sell. I see that starting to rub someone the wrong way. I have worked in a car dealership for the last couple of years. If there is anyone that knows how to treat customers it is car dealers. They have tons of training on getting back to your customer, and how to treat them while they are in the dealership. They even have training videos on how to treat customers bratty little kids. I think gun storeowners need to start running there shop like a business and stop treating it like a hobby. They need to realize the most important thing they have are their customers. Treating them like crap will insure that the doors will soon close. Not all stores are created equal. I have been to several stores that will bend over backwards to make you feel welcome. I wish these stores were closer to home so I could shop there more. I did find a local FFL that will transfer mail order guns for $10. My next couple of gun purchases will probably be done by mail order from CDNN.

Thanks for listening to my rant, I look forward to your comments

[bogie]

You don't even wanna know what the markup on a mattress is...

[TarpleyG]

Although I do agree, one thing you may be overlooking between guns and mattresses is markup. I'd bet the mattress store still made a tidy (25-30%) profit off the matress you bought from them even after the $125 discount and the free delivery. Gun shops can't afford that much markup in most cases and neither can car dealers unless they get a real sucker on the line.

GT

[sturmruger]

Since my wife and I bought our mattress we have family member that works for a place that actually manufactures mattress. When he told me what his employee cost is it made me want to cry! I should have offered them half what I did.

[jsalcedo]

I realize many will say your mattress and gunshop experiences are completely anecdotal.

However I have seen the exact same thing when buying furrniture
attentive, friendly, knowledgeable, willing to haggle or add features.

Many but not all gun shops Elitist, rude, not helpful or wanting to answer questions.

Is it something about the culture of gunshops?

Is it the commision rate on furiniture VS guns?

Is it because armchair mattress nuts don't hang around furniture showrooms bending the sales persons ear about spring compression ratios and thread count without buying anything?

I don't know but you have raised a valid question.

[sturmruger]

jsalcedo

I think you probably hit the nail on the head.

[JohnBT]

Furniture, bedding and such - they can afford to be nice. Really, really nice. It pays so well that they can get the pick of the litter so to speak when it comes to staff.

After my father had back problems that kept him from spending his days in a car he had to get an indoor job. He ended up managing a furniture store in the D.C. suburbs and was making $35,000+ in the mid-60s. His top three or four salesmen made more than that on commission. This was when I was making a buck-fifteen at McDonalds. Markup back then was right at 100% and steadily moved to 150%. Who knows where it is now - he's been retired for 16 years.

Markup is the reason they can sell stuff at 50% off umpteen times a years and still make money. Anybody ever see a new gun sold for 50% off?

All gun shops should be as good as the two big ones here, but I understand that trying to make a living off of teeny markups of 10% or 20% is difficult enough without the usual harassment they get from all of us know-it-alls. We do know more than the owner and the sales staff - right? ;)

John

[jsalcedo]

I read a post here on THR that a new Glock costs around $70 to make
all things considered, labor, materials overhead.

Glock then wants a profit so they sell to a dealer for ??? $275

The dealer has to pay the bills so he marks it up to $550

Or the pawnshop buys an unfired glock from joe blow for $75 (not making this up)

The same gun is on display the next day for $475

The cost of doing business is very high in the gun arena I suppose.

[Wanderer]

Hey, there are some very professional gunshops who will stop what they are doing just to get something for you. You wanna know which one we have gotten almost all our stuff at? That one. "You get better sales if you give kindness for free"- Me.

[Standing Wolf]

Furniture is a growth industry, and it's considerably more competitive than the firearms industry. That said™, I don't do business with gun shops where I'm not treated with respect.

[themic]

i think he's complaining more about the atmosphere and overall experience than just the discount.

[Tamara]

Glock then wants a profit so they sell to a dealer for ??? $275

Dealer cost for a Glock is over $400. If you don't want to be lambasted all over the internet as some kind of greedy, scamming, ripoff artist, you can't mark it up much more than 10%. You show me any other retail business that can stay alive on a 10%-15% markup. Dealers have to try and make up the difference on ammo, used guns and accessories, because you can't keep the lights on with the profit margins allowed by new guns.

Or the pawnshop buys an unfired glock from joe blow for $75 (not making this up)

The same gun is on display the next day for $475

If someone sold you a Glock for $75, would you sell it to me for $80?

[Top_Notch]

I hope you bought the Verlo. :D

[MeekandMild]

You might check back in a year or so because sooner or later he'll drive off all his customers and have to sell.

I used to go to a shooting range where they guy was a total ********. Then one day he sold it to a nice lady with a positive attitude and it became much like you describe your mattress store. Its all in the personality.

[dinosaur]

Well, gun stores and car delaerships have a lot of looky loos. How many mattress places have people who fall asleep for a couple of hours?:what: I`m not defending or condemning any of them though. It does sound like Sturmruger ran into a place that he`s not going to miss much.

At one of the gunstores I deal with the owner is very helpful. The first time I went in there I was looking at S/A M1As. They were on sale and caught my eye. I must`ve spent and hour looking, deciding, asking questions and making a general PITA of myself.:p Finally he calls me over and hands me a S/A patch and says when you finally decide to come back. There was just a hint of sarcasm but I didn`t really blame him. He didn`t know I had decided on a Scout/Squad and whipped out over two grand in cash. I counted out the hundreds and told him to remember my face the next time I came in. I was being a little sarcastic myself but just to break shoes. :neener: I`ve been back many times and bought quite a few guns from him. Even if I don`t see anything I particularly like, and he usually has some nice used handguns, there`s usually ammo or some such that I can use.

I`ve watched him and his employees deal with customers. They must be saints although most of the ones I`ve seen are pretty aware of what they`re doing.

This guy knows his guns and treats his customers (even first time B Busters like me:D) well. Anytime someone asks where there`s a good used gun dealer here I recommend him.

You have to see his stuffed African Giraffe. It sits amongst the clutter and is so big you can`t see it. :eek:

[hillbilly]

The points made about margins don't make sense to me.

In fact, because firearms have such a small margin compared to furniture or mattresses, it would stand to reason that gun sellers would have to be even better at customer relations.

If you make a lot of money on one mattress, you don't have to sell a bunch of mattresses to stay in business and make money.

If you don't make much money on selling guns, then why be rude to your customers and reduce the chances of repeat business? If you need to sell a bunch just to stay afloat, being a rude idiot certainly doesn't help you do that.

There are some dealers out there with a certain aggressive, rude, cutthroat type outlook. I said "some" and not "all."

For exampke, some of them tend to make sexist comments to women customers.

Check out the interview with Ted Nugent in the July Field and Stream. He rants about a woman who called his radio show and wanted to try out shooting. She went to five different gun stores and got ignored or insulted at all five. One dealer actually snorted "They don't make pistols in pink, honey" to her.

Nugent points out that idiots like these five dealers are actually working to kill gun ownership and shooting.

For some reason, or set of several reasons, there seem to be more rude, short-sighted gun dealers than other types of retailers, at least in my own experience.

hillbilly

[HBK]

Don't judge all gun shops the same. The local gun shop here is owned by a pretty nice guy who is very knowledgeable about and has a natural love of firearms. He isn't always out front, but the empoyees who are are for the most part very knowledgeable about what they sell. They are all extremely polite and quick to ask if you need to see something out of the case. The prices are very good and if you need to sell or trade, the owner is very fair and usually gives you a good price. They've never offered me a pop or told me I could take my shoes of, though.

[Mike Irwin]

"Gun shops can't afford that much markup in most cases..."

No, most gun shops certain can't.

But I don't think that's the point of Sturmruger's post.

He's decrying what he views as shabby treatment of the customer at the gunshop he was at (and quite frankly, I've been in that situation in a LOT of gunshops).

Let's face it.

If you're a shop owner, good manners are FREE. It costs you NOTHING to learn your repeat customer's names, be polite, etc.

The good will that you can generate with good manners can lead to tidy profits.

[jsalcedo]

Tamara:

Wow I'm buying some glock shares.

Is the 400 for a single pistol or does it go down for bulk dealer purchases?

Like the police depts that order a few hundred at a time..

I was just stating what the pawnshop markup was as a comparison
I'm not making judgements.

Pawnshops buy for 20% of Item value in most cases.

A guy walks in with a $700 customized glass bedded remington 700
trigger job, $400 scope all the bells and whistles.

The guy with the rifle doesn't hunt anymore and he is late on the rent.

The pawnshop proprietor figures he can sell it for $950 do he offers the guy
$190.

Either can sell or get a pawn ticket and try to retrieve the gun at a later time. sometimes he will walk out not willing to take that kind of a loss.

Thats when I follow him out to the parking lot and ask him what he wants
to get for it. Usually at this point its priced for quick sale and we both walk away happy.

[BryanP]

The staff at the three gunshops I've been known to frequent (Specialty Arms II in Lavergne TN, Franklin Guns in Franklin TN, and Youngs Guns in Cookeville TN) have all been helpful, informative and polite.

I've heard from more than one person that they've had a rude experience at Specialty Arms but I've never encountered it myself and I've been going there off and on for about 10 years. Everyone has a different experience. One of the guys who works there is in to building his own computers and since I'm in IT he likes to pick my brain occasionally. Then I ask him questions about things that go bang. We usually have a nice conversation.

As for markup, every business has the things that are marked up and the things that have a razor margin. Just ask anybody who sells computer equipment. The margin on hard drives and inkjet printers (just to pick two items) is almost nonexistent. The margin on cables is ridiculously high (you *REALLY* don't want to know how much they marked up that USB cable you just bought ...) It's part of doing business.

[Zundfolge]

Furniture is a growth industry, and it's considerably more competitive than the firearms industry.
However, the furniture industry doesn't have politicians trying to put them out of buisiness, which is a kind of competition.

I also wonder how many newbies we loose because they walked into a gun shop looking for advice/information and ran into the typical stuck up bubba that runs most gun shops.

When a gun shop owner looses a sale, many times he costs us all a potential ally in the RKBA fight.

[Stinger]

they can afford to be nice. Really, really nice.

I think that is the point of sturmruger's post. Anybody in the service industry HAS to know what they are in it for. If you want the bucks, you have to be nice. We can all afford to be nice. I don't mind paying a little more for good service.

On a side not:

I have spent a month, and six trips to one of the local car shop/dealership, not to mention hundreds of dollars, trying to get an oil leak fixed. Two of those trips were spent getting something fixed that should have been addressed the first time. Three of those trips were spent having parts reinstalled/replaced, that were improperly installed during the other trips. :cuss:

Service manager asks what he can do to make it right. Duh, give me my $$$ back! No dice, he says, but he is willing to give me credit on future service. I think not!!! But hopefully a deal is in the works, or they won't get ANY of my future business, and I am going to be buying another new vehicle in a year or so.

And what's my point, well maybe I lost it in my rant. Oh yeah, if the service consultant who was helping me hadn't been so nice and helpful each time I went, my head probably would have exploded by now. :banghead:

I may take a bad product (it better get fixed, though), but I won't take bad service.

Stinger

[David Park]

I think gun storeowners need to start running there shop like a business and stop treating it like a hobby. This is the key, and it's a common problem with "hobby" businesses, such as comic book shops and computer parts stores. In a larger sense, it's the reason most startup businesses fail: the owners don't have a business plan or any retail/sales experience. On the other hand, I doubt many people open mattress stores because they want access to all the latest mattress models at wholesale prices or the ability to sleep on a different mattress every night. :D

[.45Ruger]

I guess I am lucky because the gunshops and furniture stores around me are both staffed by friendly and knowledgeable people.

[telomerase]

If we fund a federal Bureau of Matresses, Acetone, Teaspoons and Floozies to helpfully regulate the bedding vendors, their service will soon be just as bad.

>Is it because armchair mattress nuts don't hang around furniture showrooms bending the sales persons ear about spring compression ratios and thread count without buying anything?

Hey, I only did that a few times.

[sturmruger]

This has been a fun thread. I have a few comments for everyone.


David Park: I agree that many guys open a gun shop becuase they love guns. I think that their mentality is they are doing us a favor for staying in business when it is the other way around.

Mike Irwin: You are 100% right Mike. My concern is about the overall atmosphere and general feeling that the gunstore owners give out. Gun shops should be like book store are now days. You should be able to browse as much as you want, hell maybe there should even be a coffee shop in there. You can't tell me there isn't allot of markup on a Tripleberry non-fat Mocha latte Grande. Allot of gun shops I have been to are not a place that I would like to stick around and just hang out.

Hillbilly: I think guns store owners need to work harder. There are allot of those big corporate stores that have strict rules about being friendly to customers. I also think that shop keepers should maybe sell guns for the typical 10-20% markup but then throw in some items that they buy for very little.(paper targets, ear plugs, safety glasses and other misc items) We do this in the cell business all the time. When you buy a cell phone and they throw in a Leather case and a car charger those are usually bought for around $0.75 a piece but then we advertise that we are giving you a Free $50 accesory pak. The cool thing is there is so much percieved value people really think they are getting a good deal. In my eye we get $48.50 in percieved value!!! Think if gun shops gave away stuff like that that would be a hell of a sale!!!

[jsalcedo]

This reminds me of a story that links guns and mattress stores a little more closely.

I was shopping at the Sears scratch and dent store a few years back
looking for a decent matress.

Against the wall were a large stack of queen size sealy pillowtop matresses standing on end. I was flipping through them looking for the best one.

When I got to the third one there was a large, round crusty bloodstain with a .45 cal bullet hole in the middle of it and an exit hole on the other side.

I half expected to see a chalk linedrawn around where the body was.

Jokingly I showed it to an employee and asked if I could get an additional discount...

The guy just stood there with his mouth agape for a few seconds mumbled something and walked off.

[Zundfolge]

Gun shops should be like book store are now days. You should be able to browse as much as you want, hell maybe there should even be a coffee shop in there.

I swear that if I ever find myself with a little bit of money I will open that indoor shooting range/coffeeshop/bookstore

:neener:

Although I wasn't sure I'd actualy sell guns (just supplies)

[Atticus]

If someone doesn't like dealing with people, then they should find a job that doesn't require human interaction. The secret(s) to successful selling include: Helping people to feel at ease - Demonstrating the value of your product - and letting The Customer reach a decision. Far too many gunshop owners and salespeople know a lot about guns and nothing of people.

Any first year business student knows that small margins require higher volume, and that higher volume usually increases margin by reducing wholesale costs. In a small market, volume can be limited, but being an ..........won't increase volume or margin.

[Tamara]

I swear that if I ever find myself with a little bit of money I will open that indoor shooting range/coffeeshop/bookstore

I've often dreamed of opening a combined bar/tobacconist's/gun shop and calling it "The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms." The barstools would be covered in baby seal fur, and the drink coasters would be made of alligator skin. We'd have Buffalo-style Whooping Crane wings on the appetizer menu... :D

[dksck]

Hey Sturm:
Did you work for sporting goods companies at one time? The point you're trying to make sounds just exactly like the guys who took over the last three sporting goods companies I worked for about 6-8 months before each of them went broke. Hey, if you hurry you might still be able to convice the few remaining sporting goods companies of the wisdom of your philosophy and drive them out of business too!

And Atticus:
That's a great one. How did you put it "reducing wholesale costs." I can't stop laughing. Do you know any others? Best of luck to both of you

[Mike Irwin]

"And Atticus:
That's a great one. How did you put it "reducing wholesale costs." I can't stop laughing. Do you know any others?"

Hum.

Seems we have a poorly disguised troll in our midst.

Higher volumn does reduce wholesale cost, troll.

It's called volume purchasing.

If you purchase 1 unit from your wholesaler, you're going to get a much different price than if you were to purchase 100 units from the wholesaler.

How do you think Wally World can afford to sell Remington 870 Express shotguns at prices below the wholesale price charged to the local mom & pop gunshop?

It's because of volume pricing. If you order 20,000 identical 870s, you're going to get a substantial discount on the price.

Atticus is absolutely correct in his statement.

If you have anything constructive to contribute, instead of puerile sniping, please do.

Otherwise, please go.

[Tamara]

How about a few less personal insults, especially from those with enough time-in-grade to DARN WELL KNOW BETTER. :fire:

[S_O_Laban]

This has been an interesting thread. I do agree that it seems that many small and some large shops don't have a clue when it comes to customer service. I've yet to find a shop I feel I could send my wife to and know that she would be treated well with respect and and not be taken advantage of. A truly sad state of affairs. :(

[BogBabe]

Maybe I've just been lucky, but at the gun shops I go to, I've always been pleased with the service. The salespeople are generally attentive and helpful, and I don't think I've ever been made to feel that my presence is an imposition on their time.

Particularly, I've been impressed that, as a woman, I've never been condescended to by male gunshop owners or salesmen. I remember when I bought my Ruger last fall, it was a total impulse purchase, largely driven by the enthusiasm demonstrated by the salesman. I was on a trip with some friends, we were wandering around, and I randomly wandered into this gun shop. The guy treated me like a long-time shooting buddy, willingly hauled out gun after gun for me to look at, and when I left without purchasing anything he said good-by just as cheerfully as he had said hello. I came back later that day with my friend, bought the Ruger, and my friend bought a gun she'd been wanting, too.

They need to clone that guy and put him to work in every gun shop in the country.

[Oracle]

Sadly, I've had the same experiences in most of the gun shops I've been to. The people that run them are generally standoffish, they act like they are doing you a favor by helping you. There is the occasional good, helpful employee, but, in my experience, they generally don't last long, as they move on to greener pastures. The place that seems to be the exception to this is some sporting goods stores, in particular, Galyans. The employees at any Galyans I've been to are always polite, helpful, and the prices are usually better than those of the local gun shops.

I don't think that it's a "specialty business" thing. I go to a tobacconist's shop on a frequent basis, and from the time I walked into the store for the first time, I was greeted nicely, and asked if I needed any help, and treated well. I rarely if every buy more that $10 worth of anything there, but they always smile and treat all of their customers like they should be treated. They aren't making a huge amount of profit either, but they are nice, polite, and treat their customers well. Why do most gun shops act as if they are doing you a favor by selling you their product?

[Atticus]

"The point you're trying to make sounds just exactly like the guys who took over the last three sporting goods companies I worked for about 6-8 months before each of them went broke. "

Seems to be a trend there.

[feedthehogs]

Unless anyone has owned a small business and knows the stress of everyday sales and competing with large chain discount outlets its hard to understand sometimes about attitudes.

My company works on a low profit percentage to compete.
I'm talking 10% on a 3k item.
This low percentage really does not allow for someone to make multiple trips or phone calls on an item and insults such as I can get it $15.00 cheaper by mail.

I put up with it because that is what I have chosen to do.
And I do it Gladly most of the time.
I have thrown people out of my building at times for this behaviour.
But after 25 years I still have a good reputation.

My local gunshop owner is a friend who has been dealing in firearms since the 50's. Started back selling out of his home part time while working for others. When he retired in 96', he opened his own small store and works on a 10% new gun margine on average.

A very popular store where we hang out to discuss guns. I have seen the rudest people come in and insult this owner with tall tales of being able to buy guns wholesale and why won't he sell to them for those prices.
I have seen guys keep him on the phone for long periods of time getting prices, visit his shop for the same and then not buy or invoke the price insult.

I have heard of only one incident where he finally threw a guy out of his shop for doing this.

Most of the time he is very patient and calls most everyone by their first name.

Behind the scenes to some of us he's ready to pull his hair out.
Puts in long hours.

The bottom line is don't just be a window shopper all the time. Don't waste the owners time looking up all sorts of gun prices and not buy. Don't buy the $100 jennings in the corner. Don't complain that Walmart sells ammo cheaper.

It is what it is, either deal with it or go somewhere else.

Nobody sells retail anymore, but don't expect everyone to sell wholesale.

Not directed to anyone, just an observation.

[Coronach]

LMAO! :D

Mike ;)

[Dorrin79]

The bigger gun shops I have been to are pretty good.

The three stores in Austin (Red's South, Red's Pflugerville, and McBride's) all have helpful, knowledgeable staff and a good atmosphere. Prices are kinda high, but not outrageously so.

The Carter's Country in Houston that I have visited a few times is also a good shop.

I have been to a couple of small stores (one in Bastrop, one in houston) that fit the above descriptions pretty well.

[Oleg Volk]

952-474-4570

It's been two years since I moved from MN, but I still remember the phone # of my favorite gun store (Gunstop in Excelsior, MN - ask for Howard or Larry). Nice people, good prices and selection.

I can also think of a few rude, unhelpful people elsewhere -- my close friend went in to buy a sidearm and left without due to lousy, surly "service". They lost a $600 sale and any future sales to her.

Good attitude isn't an expense but lack of it would be.

[powerstrk]

Oleg- The GunStop is about ready to move to another location, They lost their lease with a set of new owners. I offered to help them move. They are trying to set up shop in around the same area, maybe Mound, DeepHaven. I will tell Larry and Howard hello for you and direct them to THR if they are so inclined. I will also give them a plug, they are great to deal with, I have bought several guns there, plus 95% of my ammo. On another note I have dealt with most of the gunshops in the Twin Cities and have never had a bad experience with any of them-My $.02 worth.:)

[raz-0]

one thing to keep in mind is that the matress store screwed you over and treated you badly beforeyou stepped in the door.

See the thing you usually don't notice, is that no two mattress store chains EVER have the same model. Makes, yes, but not models. THeir models are made for the chain.

SO you can't comparison shop. ALso if you keep that in mind, and you read their advertising and promotions, you will notice you are NEVER getting a sale price. You will also notice that their comparison pricing has nothing to do with reality.

Basically they all mark up insane ammounts and agree to screw the customer rather than each other.

This reaches a whole new level when you get to the matter of the 10, 15, 20 year "warranty".

Better an honest pain in the ??? than a deceptive crook. At least in my opinion.

[Pebcac]

I don't remember the phone number of my favorite gunshop - I never called, I just went in! :D What I do remember is the man's name and everything I ever bought in there. He ran a pawnshop to cover bills, and had the best gunshop-in-a-pawnshop around. 10% over cost for new stuff, and gave the best trade values I've ever seen or heard of. I didn't always buy, but he always made time for the newbie questions I had. As a result, I always bought from him, and bought what I could as often as I could. He's out of business now - retired - and is sorely missed. The other shops around just don't measure up, and some of them downright suck.

There's just no excuse for poor customer service. If the gun shop guy is stressed about the bills, maybe he should try not to be a jerk. Return customers make a gunshop successful, and all return customers were first-time walk-ins once. The question the owner has to ask himself is whether or not he did everything he could to bring that first-timer back, purchase or no purchase.

[Don Gwinn]

10-20% is often optimistic. When dad was in business, he often made 10 to 15 dollars on three hundred-plus-dollar shotguns. (Trying to compete with Wally World.)

What dad really hated were the people who would come in just to pick his brain ( he prided himself on customer service) and then leave to buy the gun he recommended at Wal-Mart for $20 less (of course, Wal-Mart was making quite a bit more than that.) Every once in awhile, we'd get some goober who had gone to Wal-Mart to buy dad's recommendation, then had a predictable problem with his new gun, and when Wal-Mart wouldn't give him decent service he'd come to us.

One guy took about two hours of dad's time asking about and trying shotguns. Dad didn't mind a bit and thought nothing of it when he didn't close the sale; that happens, of course. Three days later the guy was back. He'd gone to Wal-Mart to buy his new shotgun. I believe it was an 1187. Anyway, he'd picked an 1187 at our shop and decided he wanted this barrel length and that choke setup, or something along those lines. When he got to Wal-Mart to buy their advertised "cheaper" 1187, he found it was cheaper because they didn't carry the two options he wanted--but he bought it anyway. I guess the Gremlins knew a sucker when they saw him, because he took it home and took it out the next day. When he shot it, the bead popped right off. He took it back to Wal-Mart to have them ship it back to Remington for warranty service--only they had given it to him in a Winchester box! They told him Remington wouldn't accept it, and then they told him they wouldn't ship it, nor would they give him another box, nor would they call Remington to try to work something out!

So here he was, gun in hand, asking dad to give him a Remington box. He saw no reason to offer to pay for the box, nor did he want dad to install a new sight for a small fee. He wanted dad to give him a Remington box for his Wal-Mart purchase and to ship the gun to Remington for free! When dad refused, he became angry and left and we never saw him again.

Dad firmly believed in customer service--keeping coffee and soda ready, providing barstools, greeting everyone who came through the door with at least a smile and hello, and providing expert service. It drove him out of business. The lesson he took away from it, right or wrong, was that the greatest number of people choose price over any other consideration. Customer service gets you nowhere.

Now, there were other factors in our shop's eventual demise--the location was not ideal, for one, and we never got to the point where we could hire an employee to pick up some slack for dad. But at the time that dad decided to call it quits, he was not up against a wall financially. Although there wasn't much profit coming out of the shop yet, he had budgeted for that fact and it was, in fact, growing. He told me the real reason he got out was that he'd had his fill of the people with whom he'd been dealing.


Now, I'm not necessarily defending gun shop owners, because dad was the exception around here (a fact he had counted on to set him apart from the pack.) I only use two local shops; the rest have lost my business. I'll never forget the time I was in Birds and Brooks, a military surplus place in Springfield, and I asked the owner what his best price on .45 range ammo was. I was buying a belt and holster, and I had already bought two guns from him that year. I'd never dealt with him directly, though, but with one of his employees, who had always been polite and helpful. He told me his best price, and I said "OK. I think I'll just take the belt and holster for now."

He got pretty annoyed and asked me loudly why I didn't want the ammunition.
I told him that I hadn't planned to bring it up, but since he wanted to know, I was going to the range next and their prices on .45 were better, so I planned to buy it there. Notice that I would not have said anything about his prices if he hadn't asked.

He blew up. He had to make a living! He had to have some markup in his stock! People like me just didn't understand business and we thought everything should be free!

I told him "I understand, believe me. I wouldn't have brought it up if you hadn't asked me." And then I walked out without buying the holster and belt, and I haven't been back since.

[pytron]

One other difference between matress stores and gun shops. You can't very easily walk out the front door of a furniture store with a matress hidden in your pocket.

That probably accounts for the more careful watching of gun store patrons.

-Pytron

[Hugo]

I agree that many gun stores do need better customer service. Have any of you noticed a trend where more and more gun stores are getting better at customer service?

Also do any of you know of good gunstores in the North Dallas area, including Plano? Pistol Tech doesn't look bad but I am wondering. Don't know about Harry Hines pawn shops either, kinda crummy area.

How about a gun shop and mattress store? Imagine it.
"Here's your new Springfield XD sir, and your Serta will be delivered later today." Oh and you could get one of those counting sheep dolls to use as a target. heheheh
http://www.thehighroad.org/newreply.php?action=newreply&threadid=34180&#
http://www.thehighroad.org/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

hope the smiley face works this time.

Hugo

[Futo Inu]

1. I think the difference you've describe is indeed commonplace, as between guns and good "x", "y", or "z".

2. Yes, the markup could be a difference.

3. The major difference, is in the cost associated with the time of the clerks/salesmen/store workers in gunshops (labor costs) due to people who are browsing, but NOT buying. This I think accounts for the general gruffy attitude of gun-sellers, especially at gun shows. You don't get a lot of people just browsing around, laying on mattresses, unless they're really looking to buy one. Gun stores, however, get 10 yahoos an hour who are just kids with no money, or otherwise just people who are interested in looking, handling, and generally using (wasting) the time of the clerks, but who have no intention or wherewithal to buy. After all, guns ARE fun and exciting just to play with. But you can't make money offering free "amusement rides" by letting people play with your guns and gun accessories at no cost. I honestly don't see how the guys at gun shows even make enough to cover their entry fees, let alone their time in attending and setting up - all I see are tons of people looking, and hardly anyone shelling out bills. :scrutiny:

[jsalcedo]

There used to be a place called intercept guns that was a couple miles
from my house growing up.

I used to walk there a couple times a week to oogle.

If they weren't busy they would talk with me briefly but mostly I just droooled on the display cases with the class 3 weapons.

A year or so after saving all my lunch money and selling whatever possesions were left I took my Dad in to buy me my first gun. A couple months later I had saved up enough for another.

The fact that the shop tolerated a kid in their shop asking a question now and then and putting some fingerprints on their glass paid off in terms of
2 retail sales, cleaning kits, ammo and referrals.

I agree there are some looky loos and pests who monopolize the clerks time without spending a dime but those folks can be dealt with in a professional manner. The attitude does not need to spill over to all of the
folks that come in to look at an item.

[Mannlicher]

My comment is that your example, standing alone, sure makes me want to trade my guns in on mattresses.

My experinces differ from yours though, so I will keep the guns, and the old mattress

[abaddon]

As a newbie shopping around for my first gun I haven't noticed this in my area. I think the place with the best customer service was actually the Marksman in Tacoma (yeah the one that Mohammed and Malvo got the Bushmaster from). The guy who I talked to the first time I went in was really nice and really helped me out with my questions. I keep going in to see if they have any used guns and he's always really nice and friendly, answering my questions no problem. They also have the best selection in the area.

Jeff

[S_O_Laban]

Don's post brings up a good point, one I learned working as a car mechanic, some people you can't afford to have as customers. But I don't think that is most peoples complaint. It's the owners who run you off before even finding out what type of person you are, and those that run off people who in spite of poor service still spend money there on occasion :confused: It's this type of stupidity that has me wondering just what "is" going on at a shop??

[Don Gwinn]

Gun stores, however, get 10 yahoos an hour who are just kids with no money, or otherwise just people who are interested in looking, handling, and generally using (wasting) the time of the clerks, but who have no intention or wherewithal to buy.
True. In the car industry, though, you get a bunch of these as well. They're called "strokes" and there's a reason why there's a name for 'em. However, what a lot of people don't realize is that customer service is not even really that great in the auto industry. Next time you shop, really pay attention to the treatment and not just the vehicles, and if you go to a salesman who doesn't already know you well, chances are he's being borderline rude.

Car salesmen are pushed, on the one hand, to greet everyone they can and be enthusiastic, positive, and friendly. However, they're also constantly reminded to dump anyone who seems to be a stroke and qualify customers financially. At the dealership where I worked, they made a big deal out of the "Pre-Appraisal." In theory, this was the practice of leaving your trade keys and short description with the sales manager as you took a test drive so that you could get fast answers about trade-in values and not be inconvenienced.
In fact, it was designed to give the salesman an excuse to ask politely if you were upside down in debt on your old car, which told the manager whether it was worth it to try to work a deal. It was absolutely nothing but a way to move non-buyers out the door that much faster so you could get on with the business of finding a buyer.

[Cellar Dweller]

If a store is open for ten hours and has a choice of:

a. one sale with a $600 profit and 19 "strokes" or
b. twenty sales @$30 profit each and zero "strokes" or
c. 10 sales totalling $600 (4@$30, 1@$100, 1@200, 1@50, 3@10) profit and ten "strokes"

what's the difference? Notice I did NOT specify mattresses, cars, computer parts or firearms - or the margin! If you're only gonna get 20 customers in that 10-hour day and you're looking to make that $600 ON EACH AND EVERY CUSTOMER, you're not going to be in business very long.

I can go to Wal-Mart and browse long guns and pick up some value pack ammo AND my wife shops for toys or clothes or cleaning supplies.
I can go to a sporting goods store and browse guns, purchase CLP and speedloaders AND my buddies shop for boating gear and my nephew shops for basketball shoes.
I can go to a gun store and browse guns (and occasionally buy one), buy ammo and other accessories AND my non-shooting friends stay home. Oops!

From 1996-1999 the difference between customer price and employee price for a computer or monitor was ~3% or less at Best Buy (base 5% margin). The real profit was from cables, software, inkjet cartridges, specialized paper and extended warranties - and installation/setup. Of course, there'd be the occasional "I can buy that via mailorder or internet for cheaper (until you'd add shipping)" but we'd also cut deals on complete packages (like take a loss on the computer in order to cinch the warranty, or "free" installation subsidized by the manufacturer).

[sturmruger]

I came across this post from a couple of years ago. I enjoyed it so much I thought I would resurrect it.

[SShooterZ]

Where in NW WI is this?

I have a cottage just west of Spooner. :)

[Manedwolf]

My last trip was to a local gun shop here in SE Iowa. I have lived in this area for 2+ years, and I have been into this shop at least 20 times. I have spent money about half the time usually on accessories and ammo. I have bought one gun a used Ruger MK-1. Every time I have ever entered the shop the most I have ever received in greeting is a gruff Hello. He has never bothered to learn my first name. Any time I have asked to look at a gun behind the counter the guy sighs and slowly gets up off his stool. The whole time I am examining the gun he just stands there saying nothing. He doesn’t tell me anything about how it works, where he got, what he thinks or anything. After I hand it back to him he will go back and sit down on his stool and look bored. The whole time I am in the store looking at accessories I feel like he is expecting me to stuff a bunch of scope rings down my pants and make a run for it. The few times I have asked have asked for a better deal he has never counter offered. Last month I asked if I could exchange a forend that I bought for my Mossberg 500, for some ammo. He told me flat out “NO” I left mad and will never go back.

Why do you still go to that store? I went in one store once locally with an obnoxious owner, the shyster-salesman type. And just to test, I played dumb, and he tried to sell me a $3 box of S&B 00 buck for $15. I never went back.

The one I go to now has a number of counters and salespeople, is always busy with browsing shoppers, and all you have to do is get a salesperson's attention to get a true retail "Can I help you?"...and if you want to see a gun, they'll pass it over, wait patiently while you mess with it, and answer any questions you might have.

[Correia]

An old thread, but a good one. Threads like this are one of the reasons I was motivated to open my own gunstore and try to not suck. :)

jsalcedo, I know it was years ago, and you were corrected, but I still laugh at the $275 dealer cost Glock. Man, I wish. :D

[Tomcat1066]

This thread made me realize how lucky I am with the local gunstore I go to ;)

Great service. The first time I went in I told them straight out that I was only looking. I still got great treatment. They realized that by looking today, I was shopping for tomorrow. The only other place I'll go to look at guns are pawn shops, since the gunstore doesn't do used weapons.

I love good customer service ;)

Tom

[Essex County]

I've spent roughly the same amount of time in retail firearms and managing a High volume furniture store ( about ten years ). As everyone has said the'res a lot more markup in furniture than guns. When you consider that a matress wil be purchased once evry ten years , sometimes longer for a living room set and the national average is something like 1.8 times in a lifetime for a bedroom set perspective changes........No one in a competitive market gets list price for furniture. If they did they shouldn't be able to sleep at night. Freight is a killer along with the usual expenses. Let's compare 20 thousand sq. feet of retail space vs. what a gunshop takes. I feel that a lot of Gun Shops are not run by the best people. If the salesfolk have the product knowledge, they may not be capeable of dealing with the public. I'd like a buck for everyone that goes to a particular Gun Shop to make a purchase and goes home empty handed because something turned them off...........Essex

[svtruth]

because my LGS is always helpful and cheerful. They know my name, will write down and keep an eye out for a particular gun if I ask, are happy to let me hold the display guns, always take something off the listed price, and sold me 100 rnds of WWB, .357 for $25.00.
OTOH, a local furniture store advertises that you can buy stuff now and not have to pay for 18 mos. That must be some mark up.

[silverlance]

my personal experience:

here in cali, lots of sh*** gun shops. I once paid a store to calibrate the scope on my old ruger 10/22, my very first gun, when i was 18. took it out ot the range, wouldn't hit even close to middle with a benchrest at 25 yards. so i took it back. immediately the jerk starts yelling and cussing about how i'm an idiot who doesn't know anything (true) and how i'm asking dumb questions (probably true) and demanding the impossible (who knows).

I never went back, and they soon went out of business after the police closed them down for doing illegal gun sales.

now i understand these guys are under a lot of stress, but they could have done a LOT better if they had 1: avoided the straw sales rack 2: been much more outgoing.

come to think of it, gun shops here in cali hardly ever advertise, or do anything to help themselves. 99% don't even have web sites. and that's cheap.

at turner's outdoorsman, however, it's a totally different world. i've spent over 5000 this year at turners, and i never mind the markup.

[hotpig]

I read a post here on THR that a new Glock costs around $70 to make
all things considered, labor, materials overhead.

Glock then wants a profit so they sell to a dealer for ??? $275

The dealer has to pay the bills so he marks it up to $550

Or the pawnshop buys an unfired glock from joe blow for $75 (not making this up)

The same gun is on display the next day for $475

The cost of doing business is very high in the gun arena I suppose.

You are way off base if you think Dealer price on a Glock is even in that ballpark. I would retire early from the Fire Department and sell guns full time if there was that much money to be made.

[HD]

longago/far away , i worked in a gunshop where the owner was a greedy -------- , the customers couldn't stand him , they would come to me or wait for me to help them ...
used to drive him nuts , all he wanted was the $$$$ (brooklyn pawnshop owner)
i sold more stuff than all the other shabbas goyim combined cause i would talk to the people as long as they wanted info or ideas for their next purchase , some would actually bring in their paychecks and 'what should i get today?' while signing over the check to us ...
hell , they wouldn't even let the owner wait on them he was such a greedhog...
i still meet people 25 years later who remember what they bought from me ...
its about the people , and treating them right even if they are so ignorant it hurts to be around them , i sold enough stuff to arm a small CA state...
never had a negcom or complaint in all the time i was there...

[sturmruger]

HD that is one of the best replies yet. While the money thing is a factor the relationship thing is an even bigger factor. I think most gun shop owners have a hard time with the relationship thing because there are just too many know it all gun buyers. I think they get so burnt out on idiots coming into their store they start put up a gruff front. I am still looking for that gun shop at the end of the rainbow.

Right now I tend to buy off of THR, CDNN or Gallery of Guns (http://www.galleryofguns.com)

[entropy]

You should come on up to St. Croix Falls some time, sturmruger! Mention me and they'll treat you good. Of course if you don't mention me, they might treat you better!;) Watch out for Dave, he thinks he knows everything.:rolleyes: (He's slowly learing he doesn't though.)

[twoblink]

The two gun stores I use to buy from..

They have been nothing but nice, a few of them even stick little post-its, reminding themselves what new gun they had in they wanted to show me that they just got in..

My best experience is the fact that one of the gun stores, has this "custom", whenever someone's name was mentioned (Feinstein generally did it) every employee would make a "spitting" sound.. I always got a crackup from it..

I've had the exact opposite experience, bad service at the mattress store, and good service at the gun store.

One of the gun owners even let me fondle his P7 that he grey-ed and had a nice custom holder for.

[swingset]

The points made about margins don't make sense to me.

In fact, because firearms have such a small margin compared to furniture or mattresses, it would stand to reason that gun sellers would have to be even better at customer relations.


+1,000,000

If there's an industry in need of some damn people skills, it's the firearms biz.

The auto-sales business has slim margins, but even they can act nice and greet you on the lot.

Some gun dealers act as if you are a hindrance to their business, which has always baffled me. I guess its our own fault for tolerating such jerkoffs.

[Trebor]

On the other hand, I doubt many people open mattress stores because they want access to all the latest mattress models at wholesale prices or the ability to sleep on a different mattress every night. :D

If someone wants to "sleep on a different mattress every night" I can think of more interesting ways to do that than opening a mattress store.

[p35]

Gun shops are hobby shops- as I've said before, I could do everything I need to do with a gun with the first one I bought, a Security Six .357. The others I just like to have or shoot for one reason or the other.

Any hobby shop is going to have a "clubby" atmosphere as between the people who know the hobby and those who don't. Many years ago, when I had no kids and too much time on my hands, my wife bought me an RC car kit. I started putting it together but lost interest and put it in the basement. Years later, when my then 8 year old son started talking about RC, I dug it out and we built it together. Eventually, I took it to the local RC car shop/racetrack for help with some of the details. I got a lot of laughter and cracks about how I should have kept it as an antique, but also a lot of help making it run right and then putting in parts to make it faster.

Likewise, when we started getting into archery, I went to the local archery shop/range. They answered all my dumb questions and told me to come in Thursday night when the coaches hung out. I took the boys many Thursday nights and a couple old guys, on their own time, taught me and my sons proper form and how to be decent shots. Again, they did it just for the love of the sport.

Shooting tends to be a loner's sport. At the range, you put on earmuffs and concentrate on your own performance. It's not a sport like, say, basketball where no one gets anywhere unless they work with the rest of the team. It's also one where ignorance can get someone killed. That makes it easy to ignore or sneer at newbies who don't know a .380 from a .357. If it's going to grow, though, we have to be welcoming to the newbies and help them understand our hobby. That means that we have to put aside the standoffishness when a newbie wanders into the gun shop.

I think you also have to look at the physical surroundings. Lots of gun shops and other "guy's" hobby shops are in pre-fab metal buildings in marginal parts of town. Doesn't bother me, but my wife finds it intimidating. She likes the fancy department stores with girls wearing tons of makeup spraying perfume at passersby, swishy salesmen selling hand painted ties, and someone to bring you a cappucino as you review the latest fashions. I absolutely hate it when she drags me into that type of place. Remember Bronson Pinchot and Eddie Murphy in Beverly Hills Cop? One more reason to be welcoming- remember that it may not be the usual hangout we think it is.

I may have lost my point, but you see what I mean.

[p35]

Gun shops are hobby shops- as I've said before, I could do everything I need to do with a gun with the first one I bought, a Security Six .357. The others I just like to have or shoot for one reason or the other.

Any hobby shop is going to have a "clubby" atmosphere as between the people who know the hobby and those who don't. Many years ago, when I had no kids and too much time on my hands, my wife bought me an RC car kit. I started putting it together but lost interest and put it in the basement. Years later, when my then 8 year old son started talking about RC, I dug it out and we built it together. Eventually, I took it to the local RC car shop/racetrack for help with some of the details. I got a lot of laughter and cracks about how I should have kept it as an antique, but also a lot of help making it run right and then putting in parts to make it faster.

Likewise, when we started getting into archery, I went to the local archery shop/range. They answered all my dumb questions and told me to come in Thursday night when the coaches hung out. I took the boys many Thursday nights and a couple old guys, on their own time, taught me and my sons proper form and how to be decent shots. Again, they did it just for the love of the sport.

Shooting tends to be a loner's sport. At the range, you put on earmuffs and concentrate on your own performance. It's not a sport like, say, basketball where no one gets anywhere unless they work with the rest of the team. It's also one where ignorance can get someone killed. That makes it easy to ignore or sneer at newbies who don't know a .380 from a .357. If it's going to grow, though, we have to be welcoming to the newbies and help them understand our hobby. That means that we have to put aside the standoffishness when a newbie wanders into the gun shop.

I think you also have to look at the physical surroundings. Lots of gun shops and other "guy's" hobby shops are in pre-fab metal buildings in marginal parts of town. Doesn't bother me, but my wife finds it intimidating. She likes the fancy department stores with girls wearing tons of makeup spraying perfume at passersby, swishy salesmen selling hand painted ties, and someone to bring you a cappucino as you review the latest fashions. I absolutely hate it when she drags me into that type of place. Remember Bronson Pinchot and Eddie Murphy in Beverly Hills Cop? One more reason to be welcoming- remember that it may not be the comfortable hangout we think it is. I'm not discounting my sisters or gay brothers and sisters in arms on this board, but you're the exception rather than the rule.

I may have lost my point, but you see what I mean.

[aaronrkelly]

If there is anyone that knows how to treat customers it is car dealers.

I have the exact opposite opinion on car dealers. In my area, they are the absolute worst case of customer satisfaction I have seen. My closest dealer has such rude staff that I drive another 45 minutes for service. I find car dealers in bigger cities are far better but give me a gun store over a car dealership anyday.

[GregGry]

Wouldn't it be nice if they combined a mattress store, and a firearms shop? Just think, you could try out your Ruger GP100 in the night stand next to the bed you want. :D

[jerkface11]

The problem is "experts" trying to sell things. Car guys can't sell cars. I know I wouldn't be able to sell someone a ford focus if there's a honda civic 3door in the next row. Likewise gun guys can't sell guns. Could a die hard glock man sell a highpoint to someone without a snide comment? Could anyone gun guy sell someone a jennings if there's a bersa in the next case? Gun shops need staff who are helpful curtious and not that knowlegdeable about firearms. Anything more than a mild interest is a liability not an asset.

[chopinbloc]

i have been in good and bad gun stores and while i know it wasn't sturmruger's intention to imply that all gun store owners or employees are as bad as the one in his example, i'd like to offer up an example of my own. my friend works at a pawn shop and is in charge of the gun counter. being a pawnshop, he does have to deal with quite a few homies many of whom don't even speak english. when it's obvious that the person is not a legitimate customer, he has occasionally kicked someone out of the store. by and large, though, everyone in the store gets prompt, courteous service whether they are interested in a generator or a pistol. my friend is animated and enthusiastic about the features of the various firearms and loves to show them to customers. in short, the service you'll receive at (shameless plug) bell pawn in phoenix is several orders of magnitude better than that described in the original post - and this is a pawnshop. it is absolutely inexcusable for gunstores to do business this way. they're not just hurting their own business, they're driving new shooters away from the sport. yet another reason that i have no problem shopping at sportsman's warehouse in lieu of some jerk who won't give me the time of day.

[sturmruger]

have been in good and bad gun stores and while i know it wasn't sturmruger's intention to imply that all gun store owners or employees are as bad as the one in his example, i'd like to offer up an example of my own.

I do not believe that all gun shops have these issues. I have several shops within 30 minutes of where I live now that are great places to visit and do business with. Here in our neck of the woods a huge amount of people purchase their guns at Gander Mountain or Sportsmens Warehouse.

[roo_ster]

The problem is "experts" trying to sell things. Car guys can't sell cars. I know I wouldn't be able to sell someone a ford focus if there's a honda civic 3door in the next row. Likewise gun guys can't sell guns. Could a die hard glock man sell a highpoint to someone without a snide comment? Could anyone gun guy sell someone a jennings if there's a bersa in the next case? Gun shops need staff who are helpful curtious and not that knowlegdeable about firearms. Anything more than a mild interest is a liability not an asset.

I disagree. There is no gun that is perfect for all customers. If your customer can not afford the Bersa, the Jennings might be the best product for them. Same with the Ford Focus/Honda Civic. The idea is that sales guys meet the customers' needs, whatever they may be, while working within constraints (price, size, etc).

------------

In response to the original topic, I am truly blessed to have so many fine gun shops in the DFW area. My wife and myself are both treated well, even if I tell the guys behind the counter that I am just looking. You want to run me off? Treat my wife poorly. I'll never again darken your door.

Some of my favorites:
Jackson Armory, Dallas
Bullet Trap, Plano
Gunmaster, Plano
Mike's Gun Room, Richardson
SPS Guns, Carrollton

There are other good ones, but these are the ones I have spent the most time at.

[bofe954]

I just found this thread. I have to say I am amazed that I have shopped at the same gunshop as Oleg. I found Gunstop a little while ago and quit looking at other shops. They have moved but their number is the same as Oleg posted.

They have special ordered an 870P for me when no one else knew what they were, they even gave me a good trade in price on a pistol while doing it. They also did a transfer for me on a revo I picked up from this board.

They are the only dealer in MN that regularly carries Colt. They occasionally have pizza in the store. They regularly have the guns that people rave about on this board ie old colt revos, old S+W's, pre 70 series LW commanders. They carry a full line of EBR's. They have a huge selection of Dillon reloaders and all kinds of reloading components.

I drive by a dozen other gunshops to make my way out there. I imagine that their prices would be slightly higher than Sportsman's Warehouse on common stuff. They can get and regularly have uncommon stuff and I would happily throw them a few extra bucks on the common stuff for the pleasure of looking at all of unusual things they carry, and the oppurtunity to purchase one here and there.

If your gunstore sucks, quit going there. Somewhere there is a good one. It is worth the effort to find one and worth the extra effort to get there, and they need your business.

[Moonclip]

This is the key, and it's a common problem with "hobby" businesses, such as comic book shops and computer parts stores. In a larger sense, it's the reason most startup businesses fail: the owners don't have a business plan or any retail/sales experience. On the other hand, I doubt many people open mattress stores because they want access to all the latest mattress models at wholesale prices or the ability to sleep on a different mattress every night. :D

very good point that I notice commonly. also I bet most mattress stores are the owners primary income while I have noticed in gun shops that in many cases with the poor attitudes, poor stocking of merchandise, ect. the owner has another income of sorts usually or they would never make it on the gun shop alone. Usually someone is retired and running it as a hobby or the spouse has a good full time job or something.

This of course does not apply to the chains as much but they have more buying power and will many times diversify their product lines with fishing gear and other such things.

[poppy]

Interesting thread. I have also pondered the whole customer service thing in the gun industry. BTW, I send my wife to buy the mattress, and she sends me to buy the car.

I thought that I had found the perfect gun shop, but... It started by meeting the owner at his table at a gun show. I liked his product selection and he seemed to have decent prices. He gave me his card and when I happened to be in his area on business I stopped in. I asked if he had the new S&W Sigma 9mm, no, but he would be happy to order it for me. This was in the good ole days of the Brady waiting period, so he gave me a price and I said do it.

The pistol came in with one 17 rd mag with a coupon to send in for the second mag. He explained that it might be either a 17 rd or a 10 rd, no way to know. I paid with a credit card (no extra charge for using) and left. I no sooner got in the car than I had to go back in and compliment him on not charging extra for the card and not keeping the mag coupon for himself. The second mag came and it was a 17 rd, so like I said I thought I had found the perfect gun shop.

Over the next couple of years I bought a Russian SKS and 4 more handguns from him. He had the SKS in stock, but he ordered all the handguns and I didn't even ask for a price ahead of time. He even gave me 5 boxes of Lawman 9mm ammo on one purchase. It was some kind of promotion, which my purchase didn't exactly qualify for but he did it anyway.

He later tranfered a handgun in for me that I had purchased at a live on-site auction out of state and didn't charge me anything. Like I said, the perfect gun shop.

For various reasons, I only visited his shop a few times over several years without buying anything. I had gotten hooked on attending gun shows and was able to exercise patience in finding good deals from private sellers instead of scratching my itch at his shop. Besides his shop being 20 miles away is no longer convenient to drop in on.

Now this shop was the perfect gun store only because the owner is an honest man, with fair prices. There was always guys hanging around the shop regardless of time of day or day of the week. I made no attempt to hang around and talk guns. I knew what I wanted walking in the door and he ordered it for me. Other than the SKS, I never came close to buying anything he had under the glass, and he had a pretty decent selection of new and used guns, just none that caught my fancy on any particular day.

If I wanted to talk guns with someone besides my shooting friends I would go to one of the chain stores. I have also worked at two different stores (including Dick's) and I did it to feed my habit. As a store employee, I enjoyed talking guns, because that's one of the reasons I worked there. I didn't care if I ever sold a firearm (no commission), and that has been my experience with other chain store employees.

Unfortunately the traditional gun shop IMO is a dying breed. The margins are so low and there are so many hobby FFL holders around that customer service is not the answer. I think the best answer that I have read on this thread is the one about the combo gun store, target range, book store, coffee shop. poppy

[Chrontius]

I realize many will say your mattress and gunshop experiences are completely anecdotal.

However I have seen the exact same thing when buying furrniture
attentive, friendly, knowledgeable, willing to haggle or add features.

Many but not all gun shops Elitist, rude, not helpful or wanting to answer questions.

Is it something about the culture of gunshops?

Is it the commision rate on furiniture VS guns?

Is it because armchair mattress nuts don't hang around furniture showrooms bending the sales persons ear about spring compression ratios and thread count without buying anything?

I don't know but you have raised a valid question.

I dunno... I'm lucky to have two very good shops nearby, and one that feels like a used-car dealership.

(snip)

As for markup, every business has the things that are marked up and the things that have a razor margin. Just ask anybody who sells computer equipment. The margin on hard drives and inkjet printers (just to pick two items) is almost nonexistent. The margin on cables is ridiculously high (you *REALLY* don't want to know how much they marked up that USB cable you just bought ...) It's part of doing business.

Yes, you do. They're usually offered for $2-3, employee price. See if you can find a friend who works at CompUSA, or hoard your free cables that come with printers and such.

[newfalguy101]

I read a post here on THR that a new Glock costs around $70 to make
all things considered, labor, materials overhead.

Glock then wants a profit so they sell to a dealer for ??? $275

The dealer has to pay the bills so he marks it up to $550

Or the pawnshop buys an unfired glock from joe blow for $75 (not making this up)

The same gun is on display the next day for $475

The cost of doing business is very high in the gun arena I suppose.

If you ever find a place offering NEW Glocks for $275, let me know cuz I will max my credit card buying as many as I can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mark-up on NEW guns is VERY minimal, someone posted "trying to make a living on 10-20%", try 3-5% and you will be getting closer.

Oh and my business IS my hobby which is the way I plan to keep it :neener: