Delayed after NICS check


PDA






duallydave
February 24, 2008, 05:30 PM
I finally received my CCW license after 29 days, and went to buy my first handgun. After filling out all the paperwork and paying, they called it in to NICS or whoever they call. They said that it was "delayed" and I would have to wait up to 10 days before I could take my gun home. I thought the CCW background check covered all of that, but I was told that there could be "federal restrictions". Where can I find out information about these restrictions? I'm well north of 50 now, but I made a few dumb choices when I was a youngster, and spent a few days in jail for a minor misdemeanor:eek:. Is this going to stop me from buying a handgun from a licensed dealer? I know that I can buy from a private party or gun show without a problem in this state, it seems ludicrous that the only restriction would be buying it from a licensed dealer, especially when I have already been approved for CCW.:(

If you enjoyed reading about "Delayed after NICS check" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
cedjunior
February 24, 2008, 06:28 PM
Need more info then what you gave. What state do you live in and all of that. If your ccw permit required a background check, chances are you'll pass NICS. I've been delayed on all but one firearm purchase in my life. Its not that big of a deal.

duallydave
February 24, 2008, 06:47 PM
I live in Washington State, King County. I bought the gun in Puyallup, which is Pierce County. I found http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=340454 after I posted this, I'm reading through it now. It does have some interesting info related to WA.

Pat-inCO
February 24, 2008, 07:05 PM
Why did you pay for the gun before the NICS clearance?

My local legal distributor of guns runs the check before they even fill out the sales receipt. The gun sits next to the computer until the NICS transaction is accepted or rejected.

I've seen a few delayed (more than an hour or so) but not many. With that said, I've also had to wait long enough that I would go get lunch while waiting, on several occasions. :D

duallydave
February 24, 2008, 07:14 PM
The person doing the transaction said that I needed to pay before they called in. It seemed a little weird, what if I was refused, would they hit me with a re-stocking fee? I bought some ammo, eye and ear protection, and a cleaning kit also, that I took with me. I guess if I was turned down, I could buy a gun from a private party, but I really want this M&P9c, and I would hate to pay a 15% restocking fee for a gun that I only held in my hand for a few minutes.

allank
February 24, 2008, 07:27 PM
Paying before NICS check seems odd, at least compared to my experience. I've been delayed every time for a few days, have always passed, but have never paid upfront before the check.

mainebear
February 24, 2008, 07:40 PM
Here in Northern Maine the gunshops do the NICS check and if you are approved THEN they complete the sale. If not the gun is put aside (At least with me, I'm always delayed) until approval, then you pay and complete the transaction.

duallydave
February 24, 2008, 07:42 PM
I did find this just now, good info, but it doesn't really answer my question

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/7874.html

Two forms to fill out for a pistol transfer in WA state.

A) Federal 4473 form (required for any firearms purchase from a dealer in the USA)

B) Washington State Pistol Transfer Application (this is WA-specific AND handgun-specific, it doesn't get filled out for long gun transfers)

When you fill out both forms, the 4473 is usually called in immediately and you get one of three answers from NICS:

A) Proceed (Go ahead with the deal if state and local requirements are/will be met)

B) Delay (This gives NICS 72hours to come up with an answer. If they do not call the FFL back within those 72 hours, the law states that the FFL may choose to transfer the firearm, although everyone that I know of will take the initiative and call NICS back to get an approval or a denial.)

C) Denied (This person is ineligable to own a firearm according to NICS/FBI)

With a proceed on the Federal form, the FFL will process the State form, either by faxing in the form to the applicable LE agency in the jurisdiction where the buyer lives, and that LEA has 5 business days to respond. If they do not, it works similar, that the FFL may opt to go ahead with the sale, or they may choose to try and check status before transferring.

On a state form, filled out by a buyer with a valid WA CHL, the state is satisfied that they have performed a background check within the past 60 months (length of CHL in WA) and so long as the 4473 comes back a proceed, (or a delay, then a proceed) the pistol can be transferred immediately.

With a CPL and quick penmanship, one can be in and out of a dealer with a new pistol in about 10-15 minutes, provided that the dealer gets an immediate "proceed" from NICS. My personal record is about 20 minutes, because I always have to BS a little with the guys there.

I hope this helps.

pharmer
February 24, 2008, 08:25 PM
If your last name is Smith, Jones, Brown, Green, expect a delay. Lots of those in every state to sort through. Joe

misANTHrope
February 24, 2008, 08:27 PM
Basically, here's what happens when someone calls in a NICS check: (at least as of my last FFL employment, about two years ago)

The first operator you get prompt you for all the info on the 4473. They proceed to run a sort of "quick check". If nothing possibly untoward pops up, they come back with a "proceed". If there is something possibly of concern, you get transferred to another operator, who will spend up to a few minutes doing research. If they conclude in this time frame that whatever popped up doesn't apply to you, then they will give a "proceed". Otherwise, it becomes a "delay".

The reason this happens is that there are a lot of people with similar or identical names across our great nation. Sometimes NICS needs an hour or two or maybe a day to verify that a record doesn't belong to the person they're checking. Only twice in about four years of gun selling have I had a buyer end up being denied. Generally, a delay is resolved the next business day at the latest. If it's not resolved within three business days, the FFL is allowed to transfer the firearm at their discretion.

On that last point- from what I've heard about the place you're buying from, I'm not forming a high opinion of them. They told you it could be up to 10 days to resolve a delay? That means that even if the three business days go by, they're going to hold it for another five or so, just for the heck of it? And making you pay before the NICS check is a little odd, too. Why would you have someone pay for something before you've determined if the sale can happen?

AirForceShooter
February 24, 2008, 08:44 PM
Did you give your SS# on the 4473?
That usually avoids problems of duplication.

10 days? tell him to cancel the sale

AFS

duallydave
February 24, 2008, 08:45 PM
I'm not too happy about the paying and not taking it home either... They said that they it should be resolved within 5 days, and if I did not hear anything within 10 days, to just come pick it up. They were the only store in the area with the M&P9c, another store said they could get one, but I would have to pay for their costs to ship it from the distributor, the total cost there would have been close to $600 after taxes. It was a lot easier when I bought my Model 94 Winchester 30-30.

duallydave
February 24, 2008, 08:47 PM
Thanks for the very informative explanation, misanthrope, that sounds encouraging that only a few get denied in the end.

CUE7467
February 24, 2008, 09:01 PM
i thought if there was no response from NICS with 3 days it is yours to pick up anyway???

DENALI
February 24, 2008, 09:59 PM
Never give your SSN, it's not gonna help resolve anything! I've never heard of anyone getting hit up with a re-stocking fee for a nics delay, and if you're denied thats an entirely different problem, as you shouldent have been trying to buy what you know you can't have, or why didn't you know in advance you'd be denied? Mind you, I'm not saying yea or nea, I'm just pointing too the obvious. You can only be denied if your a convicted felon, or you've been convicted of the predicate gross misdemeanor's specified.....

Magnuumpwr
February 24, 2008, 11:40 PM
Not all delays have to do with failed back ground checks. I have only been delayed one time, that was due to purchasing 8 guns in one day. Only the last was delayed and only for 3 days. As far as back grounds go, I have had two run ins with the law. 1st was a warrant for wreckless misconduct with a firearm. 2nd was unlawfully carrying a weapon. These occurred around my early 20's and have not hendered my gun purchases. The state for both offenses is Texas, which is where I reside.

Clipper
February 24, 2008, 11:53 PM
Your tax dollars at work...Relax, I get delayed every purchase. However, unless there's some state statute extending the delay time, that store is adding to it on their own hook, and I'd tell 'em to stick it, and buy elsewhere. Federal regs only provide a 3-day delay before they can sell to you without the approval.

Macmac
February 25, 2008, 12:03 AM
duallydave, Relax you will get the gun. In NH where I live you must pay before the NICS can be done. The idea is if you are prohibited there is the contract. it is a felony offence and bound by the contract if you should be a prohibited person.

I am sure you are not.

The CCW permit is by town, county and state, and has not a thing to do with NICS.

Any state in your life where you have ever purchased any gun will be a part of the NICS check. If you ever bought a gun in Cal, Mass, NY, and a heck of a lot of other anti states then those states tend to drag about and create problems because they can.

If you ever lived in any of those states and others, like them you can cut them right out of the picture if you please.

You ask your state where you reside now for a waiver. The waiver allows your state to keep transactions on record. That will speed the process up alot.

I lived in Mass once and they dragged their feet, not ever doing the check ever. I still got the gun, after a pointless wait.

Another reason it might be is if your name is Joe Smith, Jim Brown, Tim White, and any number of really common names.

If this is true and you didn't add the social securtiy number to the form then it takes time to go thru all these names.

There is a time limit for the check, and if that time runs past the limit you get the gun. I know that sucks, but it still isn't all that bad, unless you are in a hurry for a reason.

FFL Dealers don't like it as it gets them a bad name.

The people who do the NICS checks don't tell the FFL Dealer anything either.

The dealers hears Passed/Denied.. he can't ask why, and NICS can't tell.

The dealer is talking to people who talk like robots in military lingo.

I know all this because I have worked behind the counter.

I also know about the waiver because I did it when Mass stumbled around and I picked up that gun when the time ran out.

Since the waiver I pass in seconds..

chris in va
February 25, 2008, 04:17 AM
Visited my local shop here in VA last week, browsing for some grips. Overheard the owner mentioning how many delays he's had the past year. He said more often than not people have to wait now.

Phil DeGraves
February 25, 2008, 10:29 AM
"The person doing the transaction said that I needed to pay before they called in. It seemed a little weird, what if I was refused, would they hit me with a re-stocking fee?'

This is normal procedure for many gunshops. A customer gets delayed, oftentimes they cancel the sale, thinking they can go somewhere else and pick it up. So all the paperwork that was done is for naught. Some places will even have a paperwork charge if the customer changes his mind after he is DELAYED (NOT DENIED). If it is denied (which is very rare), the customer is refunded his money in full.
Sometimes delays have nothing to do with the customer's background; occasionally it has to do with computers on the other end being down.
That being said, if you have "flags" from the past, expect to get delayed everytime you buy.

misANTHrope
February 25, 2008, 10:53 AM
The dealer is talking to people who talk like robots in military lingo.

When I first started, it took about 3-4 NICS calls before I convinced myself that I really was talking to human beings, and not some advanced answering system. :p

FieroCDSP
February 25, 2008, 11:03 AM
When I first started, it took about 3-4 NICS calls before I convinced myself that I really was talking to human beings, and not some advanced answering system

It's really fun to get a trainee on the other end. You can always tell, as they'll ask you to repeat info several times and will hesitate when you use radio-speak for letters. I once called in when they were having a building-wide fire drill. The whole time the alarm was going off (I could hear it) and the poor guy on the other end could barely hear me.

Wes Janson
February 25, 2008, 11:42 AM
I feel sorry for the NICS people on occasion...there was one weekend where it took at least half an hour to get through. Apparently there were two or three gun shows going on all at the same time, plus it was the busy season, and to top it off almost the entire NICS staff had apparently called in sick. Poor lady sounded seriously frazzled.

The trainees are funny though. I can usually tell them all of the information in the proper order before they can ask for it. On the other hand, some of the old hands like to screw with you by asking for information out of order.

EOD Guy
February 25, 2008, 11:47 AM
i thought if there was no response from NICS with 3 days it is yours to pick up anyway???

The dealer MAY release the firearm after 3 business days but does not have to. Some dealers will not release without a proceed.

NGIB
February 25, 2008, 11:49 AM
Now that I have my CCW, I can bypass the NICS here in GA. Never got delayed anyway but now I won't ever be...

mnw42
February 25, 2008, 01:03 PM
I sold a Dan Wesson to a friend of mine some time ago. He got "flagged" and had to wait 10 days. The guy behind the counter said that that happens occasionally and that they randomly select people for a more intensive check.

romma
February 25, 2008, 02:49 PM
50 miles each way to the gun store when I get delayed...

100 miles + 2additional hours wasted time + wear and tear on the car...

Macmac
February 25, 2008, 07:45 PM
I read here that in some states the CCW by passes NICs!. Not here in NH it doesn't.

I have a CCW , worked behind the counter and still had to call Nics on myself!

To work behind the counter you need 3 referances and to be printed. And Still you get to play in Nics.

Is it really true there are states where a CCW by passes Nics?

duallydave
February 25, 2008, 07:50 PM
This map seems to indicate that NICS is bypassed in some states
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics.htm

another okie
February 25, 2008, 08:25 PM
duallydave - it might have been prudent to check your state and federal laws to see if you were banned before trying to buy a gun. In general it's felonies, but misdemeanor domestic violence or a current order, or some mental health orders also can prevent you from buying.

Your comment about buying "from a gun show" needs some comment. The gun laws are the same no matter where the sale occurs.

There is no "gun show loophole." Gun owners should know better and make sure to correct people on this. A dealer has to do a background check regardless of where the sale occurs.

In some states all deals require a background check, in others private individuals may sell their own firearms as long as they are not buying and selling as a business or to make money.

NGIB
February 25, 2008, 08:31 PM
I read here that in some states the CCW by passes NICs!. Not here in NH it doesn't.

I have a CCW , worked behind the counter and still had to call Nics on myself!

To work behind the counter you need 3 referances and to be printed. And Still you get to play in Nics.

Is it really true there are states where a CCW by passes Nics?


In Georgia it does. Bought a new one last weekend, filled out the 4473, showed my permit, and walked out...

Macmac
February 25, 2008, 08:34 PM
The print is so small I can't read it under the map. I can't seem to copy and past it either. I don't see any text saying anything about ccw permits and being exempt, anywhere either, not that it isn't there.

I am in NH as i said, and see only Wisconsin, Maryland, and Washinton States are the same colors.

Well I don't know about Wisconsin well, and Washington either, but I do know Md is far harder on gunners than NH is. I have a Bro in Law there, and spent anout 2 years in that state.

Macmac
February 25, 2008, 09:15 PM
NGIB we just about cross posted. I missed the reply at first. Thank you that is exactly what i wanted a first hand witness..

kermit315
February 26, 2008, 01:19 AM
If I remember right, to get a CCW in Washington, you have to get printed and signed off by the Sherrif, as well as a full background check. Seems to me if he got the CCW, he should be clear in their records to buy firearms as well (would seem pretty screwed up if you could get a CCW but no pistol to go with it).

I am going to go out on a limb and say you will be approved, it is just a delay for a similar name somewhere in the system.

Tagged to follow.

Jamie

Defensory
February 26, 2008, 06:07 AM
Posted by Macmac
Is it really true there are states where a CCW by passes Nics?

Yes.

The North Carolina concealed carry permit bypasses NICS. NC also has reciprocity agreements with at least 30 states, which allows you to carry concealed in well over half the country.

EOD Guy
February 26, 2008, 10:53 AM
I read here that in some states the CCW by passes NICs!. Not here in NH it doesn't.

I have a CCW , worked behind the counter and still had to call Nics on myself!

To work behind the counter you need 3 referances and to be printed. And Still you get to play in Nics.

Is it really true there are states where a CCW by passes Nics?

Not only a CCW but certain other documents as well. Here is the official BATF list.

Permanent Brady Permit Chart (http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/bradylaw/permit_chart.htm)

partyharty
February 26, 2008, 10:54 AM
Same in Arkansas. CCW bypasses the call but you still have to fill out the paperwork.

duallydave
February 26, 2008, 10:58 AM
"If I remember right, to get a CCW in Washington, you have to get printed and signed off by the Sherrif, as well as a full background check. Seems to me if he got the CCW, he should be clear in their records to buy firearms as well (would seem pretty screwed up if you could get a CCW but no pistol to go with it). "

That is exactly right. I did get fingerprinted, a full background check, and signed off by the Sheriff. http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/firearms/faconcealreq.html
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.070

If you look at the bottom of the Concealed Pistol License application form, there are 7 agencies that are checked during the process, including NICS: http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/firearms/faforms.html

So if I was passed by all of that, the only question should be Federal restrictions, which goes back to my original post, I don't know what the Federal restrictions are. However, from the sounds of the other replies, perhaps that is not the issue. I do remember a few years ago seeing in the news that somebody with my same name was convicted of rape in Poulsbo, and my name is somewhat common, particularly in the eastern states. So perhaps, despite my supplying my SSN, they want to double check.

Macmac
February 26, 2008, 06:07 PM
duallydave, I am sure you will get the gun, just not which day. It might be the check is done, and you get the call to come get it, or it might be they never do the check, and you still get the call and go get it.

As to the other posts I had no idea a ccw in some states by passed the Nics check. I wish NH was that way.

SO when a state does the check I still will assume you have to fill out the forms. The dealer must keep records by fedral law, when he gets in any gun new and used, and records for where it went. He keeps these records.

he is the only one who know who bought what and when, and is the only one who knows what was bought.

Nics wants hand gun, pistol, and long gun. A hand gun is a revolver, the pistol is a semi auto, and the long gun is a shot gun/rifle. Since this if fedral I can only assume this is done in all states.

budiceman
February 26, 2008, 06:37 PM
I wouldn't worry about it. I once bought a handgun (Had a permit to purchase) which went right through. 2 months later went to buy a shotgun and was delayed for 2 days!

Grandpa Shooter
February 27, 2008, 03:24 AM
I can't even imagine living in a State where you had to jump through such hoops. In Arizona you walk into a gun store, pawn shop, big box store or gunshow, find a gun you want and can pay for. Put your CCL on the counter, fill out the 4473, pay the man, and you are done. No NICS fees at all.

If you don't have a CCL, you fill out the 4473, hand him your driver's license, wait while he makes the call, pay for the gun, and you are out the door.

If you are doing a Face to Face, you pay the person the money you agree on, and walk away. Even at a gunshow private sales are perfectly legal. Firearms in Az are tangible personal property and can be sold face to face just like any other tool. No 4473, no NICS checks or fees and no tax.

Great to live in a free state.

duallydave
February 28, 2008, 09:27 PM
All is right with the world again - my part of it anyway :) My new baby is now home safe and sound. I called the store and they said to come on down. The called NICS again while I was there, apparently nothing had changed, so I signed on the dotted line and headed on down the road. I have 450 rounds and some targets, only one more day until the weekend.

:D:D:D:D:D

MD_Willington
February 29, 2008, 06:07 AM
I was delayed on my first pistol purchase probably because I'm a legal permanent resident.

The FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) uses NLETS for each gun sale made in the United States.

The members allowed to use it are law enforcement agencies of all 50 states, territories, all federal agencies with a justice component, and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

So I'd assume in my case, they were looking for a criminal background if any in Canada and to make sure all of my DHS/INS info was up to date.

I had already attained my AFL and my CPL prior... so there should have been no delay.

GhostCat
February 29, 2008, 10:53 AM
Congrats on FINALLY getting your Gun......BTW, I get Delayed on EVERY SINGLE GUN PURCHASE!!!!!!......Its commonplace for me.....but I've never been turned down.......just frustrating!!!!!

another okie
February 29, 2008, 08:06 PM
Persons who had security clearances in the past, for example in the military, are apparently often delayed, though I don't know why this should be.

duallydave
February 29, 2008, 08:14 PM
Interesting, I had a DOD security clearance for my employer at one time.

If you enjoyed reading about "Delayed after NICS check" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!