[Khornet]

www.sacbee.com/state_wire/story/7166474p-8113624c.html


There's the bait. Have at it.

[Boats]

Before March, the last time U.S. forces had used napalm in combat was the Persian Gulf War, again by Marines.

SEMPER FI!

[Mark Tyson]

Terrible way to go . . . but we're trying to win here.

[Drjones]

"The generals love napalm," said Alles. "It has a big psychological effect." I'll bet! In my head, I just see the scene with the F-18's from Tears of the Sun. :cool:

[longeyes]

You mean the USMC is trying to kill people and break things?

Shocking.

[hops]

EPA approved Napalm or kerosene powered fuel-air explosives? Well the article did say this stuff was environmentally friendly.

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

I say whatever works, use it.

If it achieves the end result quicker against an opponent, screw the critics. All's fair in love and war. Besides, the critics are probably giving aid and comfort to the enemy anyway.

I'm still surprised we didn't use low level tactical nukes against Taliban/Al Queda bunkers in Afghanistan.

Regards,
Rabbit.

[QuarterBoreGunner]

You mean the USMC is trying to kill people and break things?


Exactly my thought.

Whatever get the job done quickly and efficiently with the minimum risk to our guys, is ok by me.

Alot of yak about this on some other boards...Oooooo Napalm! Evil Evil Evil.

And of course the famous picture of the Vietnamese girl running from the village burning in the background surfaced again.

Different war people; different situations.

Besides I believe that the Mk77s that were used in Iraq are more of a fuel/air device than actual napalm.

[Maxinquaye]

Sylvilagus - I'm not surprised at all. I'm no expert, but I think the dropping of *any* nuke would be on the front page with people screaming in protest. It's a psychological thing. You and I can distinguish between a tactical and strategic nuke, but I think the avg. person hears "nuke" and flips out. Hence the MOAB n stuff...those fuel air bombs create explosions on par with tactical nukes I believe.

[Drjones]

You and I can distinguish between a tactical and strategic nuke, but I think the avg. person hears "nuke" and flips out.

I'm FLIPPING OUT!!! ;) What is the difference?

Lemme take a guess: The Tactical nuke is painted a deep, dark, tactical black??? :neener:

[Maxinquaye]

The difference is pretty much the size of the bang. Strategic nukes take out cities and are delivered via bomb and missile payload. Tactical nukes take out a large number of troops or a particularly hardened target, and fit in a cruise missile or shell.

I think they're all painted black, so I can understand your confusion :neener:

[Drjones]

Thanks.

That's what I thought. :)

[Iain]

An out of character post but:

''So General what are you going to use to blow it up?''
''Napalm. Lots and lots of napalm.''

Evolution.

[Duncan Idaho]

Sometimes it's tough for us Navy guys to say it, but I have to go with Boats on this one!

SEMPER FI!!!

[Butch]

Got Marshmallows? :neener:
Stupid Civies!:banghead:

[dinosaur]

Hmm, Crispy Critters.:what: :D

[C.R.Sam]

WELL DONE

Sam

[444]

Good for them.
I never entertained the idea that they wern't using incendiary bombs.

[Preacherman]

Fuel-air explosives? So where's the downside here? It's even ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY!!!

:evil: :D :p

[Navy joe]

You mean the USMC is trying to kill people and break things?

Shocking.


:D

On a more serious note, what about the Chem weapons treaty $Bill signed in '98 I believe. I forget the long title of the treay, but the short story is that we are not using riot control agents in Iraq because we signed it. I feel like not having stuff like CS at our disposal has cost both American and Iraqi lives. Any thoughts?

[Deepdiver]

After many "combat detergent" patrols in the deep dark...it warms my old navy heart to hear about some jarheads "GETTING SOME!!!)

...I only have one question....What Took Them So Long???


Semper Fi, Brothers!!

[Kernel]

In the words of Archie Bunker, "would it make you feel better.... if they'd been pushed out of windows?"

[Quartus]

<shaking head> Oh, Sam, Sam, WHAT are we going to do with you?



:D





Jones, a tac nuke requires some very special engineering to get fission from a less than critical mass. Fortunately, it's probably not (yet) within reach of the nuclear wannabees like N. Korea, Saddam, Iran, etc.

They can be deliverd in an artillery shell, suitcase, cruise missle, etc. (Full nukes can also be delivered in a cruise missle.) THey might be used to wipe out an advancin armor column, for example. Something that would be massive overkill for a strategic nuke.


As for being surprised that they weren't used - WHAT? There' s no way that any American president could stay in office if he ordered the use of nukes of ANY kind without some pretty extravagant provocation. Like on the order of THEM using them first. Or at LEAST bio weapons.

It would have been a MAJOR shock if they HAD been used.

[Deepdiver]

WHAT? There' s no way that any American president could stay in office if he ordered the use of nukes of ANY kind without some pretty extravagant provocation.


....but, oh, so much more efficient, if he had!!!

I do believe that we could have done a fair to middlin' job with just one Trident (properly targeted, of course!!)

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

In referring to the tac-nukes, if they had been deployed, they would have been used as deep penetrators into the cave/bunker complexes. As it was, I feel like the objective was achieved with conventional dp's quite adequately. If we hadn't pulled so many operators from Afghanistan into Iraq for the recent roundups we'd have more information to back up just how effective they were. As it is, I think we should encourage the creation of more specops units so we don't have to spread them so thin into multiple theaters.


BigBLU (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/dshtw.htm)

FAE's are just so specatular, though. Quite effective on bunkered implacements in desert terrain vis-a-vis Gulf War I.

Fuel/Air Explosive (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/fae.htm)

Regards,
Rabbit.

[Khornet]

I thought I'd get a rise from somebody! But no. All you guys do is shout OORAH!

Anybody dig the part about how Napalm was used in Vietnam "to attack people and villages"? How did that on pass unremarked?

[Sergeant Bob]

You smell that? Do you smell that? ...Napalm, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of napalm in the morning. You know, one time we had a hill bombed, for twelve hours. When it was all over I walked up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' dink body. The smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole hill. Smelled like... victory.

Lt. Col. William 'Bill' Kilgore

[Leatherneck]

Anybody dig the part about how Napalm was used in Vietnam "to attack people and villages"? How did that on pass unremarked?
OK, I'll bite. Of course we naped villages and "people." The villages had long since been purged of anybody thought to be friendly (mistakes were, and will continue to be, made) and generally were riddled with caverns and tunnels housing VC. The "people" generally were shooting at Marines on the ground from poorly defined/located positions that frustrated the use of more precision weapons like MK-82s. In fact, the most common loadout of a Skyhawk at Chu Lai and Danang was six MK-82 snakeyes and two MK-77 500-lb firebombs. "Snake and Nape." The napalm would be used in a splash-type delivery to defoliate an area and flush out goblins, and the high-drags would then be used to blow up whatever was revealed.

Bottom line: Dead is dead, and that was our intention.

TC
TFL Survivor

[Kharn]

I'm currently working in a field very, very closely associated with this issue. According to my co-workers (I'm just a summer intern, some of these guys have been dealing hands-on with Navy weapon systems for 20 years), true napalm has been discontinued, but the jet fuel-using derivative (Jet fuel contains a lot of kerosene and there's huge bunkers of it all over the world, no mess of mixing gas and benzene anymore) gives the same effect with a different name.
They said the pilots love the stuff, and the Americans on the ground love it even more.

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~cw5t-stu/apocalypse/killgore.jpg
I love the smell of Napalm in the morning. The smell, you know that gasoline smell. Smells like victory.
:evil:

Kharn

[Futo Inu]

Yep, conventional bombs would have been first choice, but that would have destroyed the bridges they were trying to clear, and needed to use after clearing - hence the "fire bombs". Whatever works in love and war... [Sidetrack - can't wait to see Duvall in the new western - ain't he in "Open Range"?]

[seeker_two]

You mean the USMC is trying to kill people and break things?

Next thing you know, they'll start issuing them REAL BULLETS!... :what:


Clueless journalists... :rolleyes:

[Zip06]

Nape, CBU's. Daisy Cutters, Fuel-Air, 21,000 pound bunker busters. What is the problem?

[Duncan Idaho]

Anybody dig the part about how Napalm was used in Vietnam "to attack people and villages"? How did that on pass unremarked?Khornet, you've got a point there. That did make me start to tear up a little. Made it kind of hard to type and format

SEMPER FI!!!

:p :D

[Langenator]

Of course, IIRC, napalm was first used against the Japanese in WWII, and it was also used in Korea. I've seen footage of F4U Corsairs dropping it on non-descript gray-brown hills on the History Channel, Discovery Wings, etc.

Funny how nobody objected then.

[Sean Smith]

Napalm is a perfectly legitimate weapon. Of course, most of the idiots whining about the use of napalm are the same subliterate twinks who whine about the evils of depleted uranium all the time. :rolleyes:

[Leatherneck]

I've seen footage of F4U Corsairs dropping it on non-descript gray-brown hills on the History Channel
We dropped nape on The History Channel? But I like The History Channel! :D

TC
TFL Survivor

[seeker_two]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2002/08/13/wirq13.jpeg

There is NO napalm being dropped on the History Channel....

:evil:

[Quartus]

Sylvilagus , from that article you linked....

Big BLU will be GPS guided and feature cobalt-alloy penetrator bomb body that enables it to penetrate to depths of up to 100 feet below the surface before detonating.

Big Fat Hairy Deal. The Brits were doing 90 feet of penetration from a sub-optimal drop atltitude in WWII. It was called the "Grand Slam" and it made life miserable for various German sub pens and other fortified locations. Took out a bridge or two and a tunnel or two. In fact, it stopped reinforcements from turning the tide at Normandy.

And they hit with amazing accuracy withOUT the use of GPS, thank you very much. No fancy dancy cobalt alloy casing, either.


What do you want to be it was a lot cheaper than our Big BLU?