[Dannyboy]

Has there ever been or is there now, a 7mm round based on the 30-06? I'm sure there's one out there somewhere but I can't for the life of me think of it. This is driving me nuts so, any help would be appreciated.

[bernie]

I think what you are looking for may be the .280.

[Mike Irwin]

The .270 Winchester (nominally a 7mm), introduced around 1925.

The 7mm Express/.280 Remington, introduced about 45 years later, IIRC.

[cracked butt]

But the .270 uses a .277 bullet while the .280 (a true 7mm) uses a .284 bullet.

[Delmar]

Actually, neither one is a "true" 7MM. To convert, multiply millimeters by 0.03937 to get inches.

7MM = 0.27559 inches, so the 270 is the closest that I am aware of at 7.02MM
A .284 works out to be 7.21MM.
To convert inches to MM, multiply by 25.40

[bernie]

All of this is well and good, but I believe that for reloading purposes, the .280 uses the "7mm" bullet as marketed by Sierra, Remington, Hornady, and others.

[Jim Watson]

Delmar,

Two things about caliber designations. First, a lot of people have lost sight of the definition of "caliber." Caliber is the BORE diameter, not the bullet diameter, which is about the same as groove diameter. Second, there is a lot of rounding off and marketing department adjustment to numbers that read kewl. It soon got to where the caliber marking may not have a whole lot to do with the barrel or the bullet. You would be a good customer for Lazzeroni, who has gone to marking by bullet diameter and sells a 7.21mm that shoots .284" bullets.

Dannyboy,

As said, the .270 is pretty close. It may have been modeled on the experimental 6.8mm Mauser considered by Japan. Or maybe Winchester just wanted a caliber nobody else had.

The first 7mm - '06 I know of was the .285 OKH. "K" as in Elmer Keith; we don't hear much about O'Neil and Hopkins, these days.

The .280 Remington is not quite a 7mm - '06. The shoulder of the case is .050" farther forward so as to keep it from being loaded into a .270. I guess they were worried by the similar appearance of two rounds only .007" apart and the old horror stories of Springfields blown up by cramming an 8mm into a worn low number '03.

You have to look at rifles and old ammo boxes for another reason, the cartridge was briefly renamed 7mm Remington Express until they found that their customers could not tell the difference between 7mm Express and 7mm Magnum, so they changed it back.

[Gewehr98]

Quite popular in Europe, where they don't care about SAAMI pressure limits. It's known as the 7x64 Brenneke, and is loaded to a higher pressure than our own .280 Remington. I have a bunch of the brass, I use it for my 6.5-06 wildcat. ;)

[Mike Irwin]

"But the .270 uses a .277 bullet while the .280 (a true 7mm) uses a .284 bullet."

That's what NOMINALLY means.

[Jim Watson]

Yah, 7x64 predates even the .270 and has been said to be Winchester's inspiration for .270, but with their own bullet, not some Frenchified metric number.

At one time, the .280 was the darling of the custom gunsmiths. They could make a Mauser up for it without having to alter the bolt face or feed rails as they would for a Magnum. So they could put your money into other "features." But the rather mild ballistics of the .280, intended to run in 742 automatics did not impress customers, so they loaded it up. Some loaded it WAY up, to light-bullet 7 Mag velocity. Those folks found that Winchester .270 brass was stronger than Remington .280 cases, so they necked .270s up to take .284" bullets. That was a complicated process to move the shoulder forward for proper headspace, but they thought it was worth it.

[Delmar]

You would be a good customer for Lazzeroni, who has gone to marking by bullet diameter and sells a 7.21mm that shoots .284" bullets.
Elementary, my dear Watson:D
Actually, I would love to try out one of Lazzeroni's 7.da-da-da's once, but I'm not sure about twice! I guess there is some excitement about stuffing a quarter of a can of gunpowder in a case and lettin it rip.

I do understand exactly what you're talking about. My 308 bullet is no bigger in diameter than a 30-06, 30-30, 300 Savage or Winchester, but they have to call it something different or we'd all be running around with case gauges.

Funny story from a proprietor of a gunshop in DFW: Man comes in and asks to buy some 270 Weatherby ammo. Owner sells him a box. Guy comes back a few days later hoppin mad because "the ammo you sold me don't fit". They rehash the conversation and the buyer has said rifle in the truck-brings it in and starts jabbing his finger at the inscription "Weatherby" on the receiver. Owner takes the man's finger and directs it to the barrel and asks the man to read it. Of course, its one of the Howa two lug jobs chambered for standard ammo.

Never was much on metrics until I had to be, but I do think the NATO designation for ammo makes a whole lot more sense than the ideas of the marketing department. It at least gives you a clue as to the cartridge length and bullet diameter.

[Dannyboy]

Thanks, guys. The .280 and .270 never popped into my mind. That's probably because I had it in my mind that whatever it was would be similar to the .25-06. If you know what I mean. Anyway, thanks again.