For the KT fanboys...new Ruger LCP shooting video


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sonyhoppes
February 27, 2008, 07:35 PM
I'll bet this has KT shaking in their boots. The LCP is looking better and better all the time. Not malfunctions and not one round failed to feed when racking the slide. They weren't even really slingshotting the slide, either, as it looked like they were riding it. I know the slide's a smidge heavier than the KT, but not bad for a brand new gun. The P3AT is notorious for having the first round nosedive into the feed ramp and FTF when slingshotting the slide. :rolleyes: Looks like the LCP extractor design is a real winner, too. Those casings are practically thrown into a low earth orbit!

http://www.downrange.tv/player.htm?bcpid=452320104&bclid=459256134&bctid=1433966126

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glove
February 27, 2008, 08:54 PM
My P3AT functions as well or better than that Ruger. 500 rounds and not 1 problem no FTF or FTE. For $239.00 I will stick with the KT.:) Buy the way what is the price on that ruger?
Dave Z

sonyhoppes
February 27, 2008, 09:00 PM
Wow, 3 posts in a row, huh? You ARE a true Kel-Tec fanboy!

Um, do you have an LCP? NO you DO NOT. Even if your KT runs 100%, it does NOT run better than the LCP in the video. They didn't have any failures, either. I suggest you watch it if you haven't or watch it again.

I've seen people who have pre-ordered the LCP and it's right in line with the P3AT at well under $300. KT had better watch out, especially with their widely known bad reputation!

jakeswensonmt
February 27, 2008, 10:23 PM
I'll bet this has KT shaking in their boots.
Doubt that. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. So what? Ruger copied one of their designs. Kel Tec makes a lot more than just the P3AT.

Um, do you have an LCP? NO you DO NOT.
Dude, relax.

I've seen people who have pre-ordered the LCP
So you don't have one either? And you're flaming Glove? You're quite the fanboi for not owning one yet.

KT had better watch out, especially with their widely known bad reputation!
Are you kidding? Kel Tec has a pretty good rep. If Kel Tec had such a bad rep then why did Ruger blatantly copy their design?

abrink
February 27, 2008, 10:33 PM
OK it looks nice for a carry gun but is it like Kel-tec in the fact that you shouldn't practice with the same gun you carry with?

Is it OK to put 100 rounds through it per weekend like i do with my regular autos?

M2 Carbine
February 27, 2008, 10:48 PM
Video means nothing.

I can show a video of my Skyy functioning 100% and that is the worst piece of crap that's been sold in many years.

I plan on buying the Ruger.
After it's been in shooter's hands for a while and has proven itself.

351 WINCHESTER
February 27, 2008, 10:50 PM
K/T is going to have their clock cleaned by Ruger and rightly so. Their p3at has been plaqued with numerous problems since day one and some work for a while and break, some don't work at all (unless you consider single shot working).

I've never been a Ruger fan, but I'm going to get one to replace one of my p32's, which I like just fine. It only had to be sent back to k/t once.

Nothing like good old fashioned competetion.

Gator
February 28, 2008, 12:13 AM
I just got a P3AT a couple of months ago....wish I had waited. :banghead:

Car Knocker
February 28, 2008, 12:31 AM
Duplicate thread. Here's the earlier one: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=343641

skinewmexico
February 28, 2008, 01:44 AM
It's in a video, and on the internet, it must be the gospel truth. Geez, the funny ways people prop up low self esteem, pushing something that isn't even for sold yet.

Gator
February 28, 2008, 01:59 AM
Its also funny how people on the internet "prop up low self esteem" by discounting a highly respected gun writer like Michael Bane. ;)

tinygnat219
February 28, 2008, 09:53 AM
Glove,

My P3AT functions as well or better than that Ruger. 500 rounds and not 1 problem no FTF or FTE. For $239.00 I will stick with the KT. Buy the way what is the price on that ruger?

MSRP is 330 from SHOT Show. Take about 20% off of that and you will have it in the price range of an MSRP Kel-Tec. The dealer cost on the LCP is also only 10 dollars more than their cost on the P3AT. Ruger's going after this part of the market HARD, which is odd considering how Ruger has operated in the past.

I think Kel-Tec is going to be hit hard by Ruger, but consider Kel-Tec's market niche. MOST of their market is the Concealed Handgun pistol market. They have the expertise, they have the experience. They also seem to be diversifying their products every year as well. Consider Ruger, it took them 20 years to get a Vanila flavored ho-hum Striker fired 9MM pistol into the market. While it didn't take them as long to do a small concealable handgun, Kel-Tec still has the nimbleness of a small company that Ruger can't hope to match.

Overall, I consider competition good for the marketplace. If Ruger forces KT to actually be better on Fit and Finish, then I welcome it.

JohnBT
February 28, 2008, 10:27 AM
"Even if your KT runs 100%, it does NOT run better than the LCP in the video."

That's one of the funniest statements I've seen in some time.

KT has never been able to keep up with the demand for their products. Now, with Ruger presumably stealing some of that demand, KT might be able to increase sales because there will actually be some guns in the shops for buyers to look at and buy without having to order it and wait.


That really is a totally illogical statement. You're saying the Ruger runs better than 100%? That would be better than perfect? But don't let me get in the way of the .380 dicussion. I moved from a P-32 straight to a Rohrbaugh.

John

tallpaul
February 28, 2008, 10:43 AM
While it didn't take them as long to do a small concealable handgun, Kel-Tec still has the nimbleness of a small company that Ruger can't hope to match.

That is about ignorant... the slowness of ruger has more to do with ol Bill - who is gone and some politics and policies- Not the size of the company. They can bring things to production fast if they choose too. The demands of testing and long term conerns slow them down. Lawyers have also infected them- ya only need to see the "billboards" to realize that- they were the first.

I like my keltec p32 which has not jammed or failed in the couple years I have had it, but will likely get a ruger .380 if I feel the need for somethin in that size.

BattleChimp Potemkin
February 28, 2008, 10:59 AM
It has a lot of KT looking features, but seems to have a "melt" job done to it :) Nice, move over bersa, your getting a new shipmate!

grimjaw
February 28, 2008, 11:10 AM
I'll bet this has KT shaking in their boots.

Well I doubt that, since KT is still in markets that Ruger has retreated from (pistol caliber carbines). The SU16s are still a more attractive option to me than the Mini14. I also don't see Ruger producing a bullpup-type .308 anytime soon.

If KT continues to innovate, can make a profit, and want to stay in the market, I think there's enough of a market to go around.

I like the small cosmetic changes they made to the KT design and I'm curious to see if the LCPs need the same 'fluff and buff' treatment than many KTs need to run more reliably. That's worth an extra $10 right there.

jm

IndianaBoy
February 28, 2008, 11:58 AM
Why can't people be excited and talk about a new product without running down a competing product?


Why do people have to insist that what they have MUST be the best and everything else must be junk?

I don't understand it.

the naked prophet
February 28, 2008, 12:11 PM
Why can't people be excited and talk about a new product without running down a competing product?

It's not a new product :neener:

sonyhoppes
February 28, 2008, 12:29 PM
I knew the KT fanboys wouldn't let us down. :evil:

MaterDei
February 28, 2008, 12:36 PM
I'm a KT fanboy and I'm going to be buying one of these Rugers ASAP. Nothing against KT at all. I'm real curious to see whether Ruger can copy the P3AT successfully. My local dealer says that he'll be offering them for $298. Impact Guns has them listed for $269. http://www.impactguns.com/store/736676037018.html

sonyhoppes
February 28, 2008, 12:42 PM
I hear ya. While I really, really want the Ruger to be what the KT should have been for me, I think I'll wait a while as I'll find out whether it works or not and not have to throw down $250-300 myself to see if it works any better. Got burned on TWO different P3ATs and I'm not eager to repeat the experience. Hopefully, being a bigger company, Ruger won't have the supply problem KT has. I see tons of posts about the P3ATs "drying up" or being "MIA". :rolleyes:

jgorniak
February 28, 2008, 12:43 PM
Why can't people be excited and talk about a new product without running down a competing product?

Not just guns, but just abput anything discussed on the internet.

Take away the trolls and the fanbois and the WWW becomes a lot emptier.

Not necessarily a bad thing...

sonyhoppes
February 28, 2008, 12:53 PM
I wonder how many KT fanboys go around saying FORD = Found On Road Dead/Fix Or Repair Daily. Have Calvin stickers pissing on the Dodge, Chevy, etc emblems. Have whatever NASCAR driver number on their window and defend him to the death against all others. #3, may he live forever! Political stickers supporting whatever candidate and how anyone else's choice can't POSSIBLY be good. I'll bet there's a lot more than one hypocrite out there. :rolleyes:

tinygnat219
February 28, 2008, 12:55 PM
Tallpaul:

My responses are below.
That is about ignorant... the slowness of ruger has more to do with ol Bill - who is gone and some politics and policies- Not the size of the company. They can bring things to production fast if they choose too. The demands of testing and long term conerns slow them down. Lawyers have also infected them- ya only need to see the "billboards" to realize that- they were the first.

You bring up a good point about Bill Ruger being gone and how he had about strangled innovation out of his company. However, Ruger is not a company known for innovation. They are known for building vanilla guns that work well and are inexpensive. Thus, it's going to be more difficult for a larger company like this to shift paradigms.

It is happening though, Ruger recently went through a "Lean" event, which is a management strategy to cut down on things you should and shouldn't be doing and realigning resources to areas that they can do well in. I think we are starting to see some of that. However, a process like this takes time to implement; whereas Kel-Tec has shown some ingenuity and resourcefulness to minimze costs. Look at the PF-9, it's a combination of two pistols: the P3AT and the P-11. This is a very successful product and production and design costs are minimized because the R&D and Engineering costs have mostly been done.

IndianaBoy
February 28, 2008, 02:04 PM
I knew the KT fanboys wouldn't let us down.


If you are referring to me. I don't own a Kel-Tec. And I don't like them. I have a Ruger Mark II and Ruger M77.

For carry, I have a Sig. So if you like smug pissing contests about quality..... :neener:


Civility just doesn't work with those who know only arrogance.

sonyhoppes
February 28, 2008, 02:05 PM
I wasn't referring to you. The fanboys know who they are. ;)

CJ
February 28, 2008, 03:28 PM
Don't really care TOO much about the discussion (personally waiting for the PF9 vs. PT-709 discussions once the Taurus Slim comes out) but:

"Even if your KT runs 100%, it does NOT run better than the LCP in the video."

That's one of the funniest statements I've seen in some time.
...
That really is a totally illogical statement. You're saying the Ruger runs better than 100%?

John

No, he's saying a 100% KT is not better than a 100% LCP (as viewed in the video). That would be the same performance with neither having an edge over the other, based solely on ability to go bang.

JohnBT
February 28, 2008, 10:07 PM
"Why can't people be excited and talk about a new product without running down a competing product?"

Other than the "fanboys" comment in the thread title? I thought the title was an invitation to argue. You mean it wasn't? Go on.


And about that whole line of reasoning that Ruger can move quickly and that the only thing that's been holding them back was Bill Ruger, Sr. and now that he's passed on they're on a roll, etc.

Well what can I say. He died on 7/6/02. Let's see, this is 2008, so that's what, going on SIX YEARS.

JohntheFactBoy

skinewmexico
February 28, 2008, 11:41 PM
Wow. Someone used "respected" and "gun writer" in the same sentence. Show me 5 articles where the "gun writer" doesn't talk about how great a gun is. Any gun.

Norm357
February 29, 2008, 12:18 AM
My P3AT functions as well or better than that Ruger. 500 rounds and not 1 problem no FTF or FTE. For $239.00 I will stick with the KT. Buy the way what is the price on that ruger?
Dave Z


You have fired the new Ruger?

The bitterness among the KT fans is quite amusing.

ugaarguy
February 29, 2008, 04:13 AM
A few videos of a pre-production LCP mean nothing. Ruger's test is to get that kind of reliability out of all the main line production LCPs. The Ruger P345 had teething problems, but Ruger ironed them out. The P3AT had teething problems and Kel-Tec ironed those out too. I love my P3AT, but I'd like to give the LCP a try. The slide hold open with external release is really appealing to me.

As for market share, I don't see the LCP killing Kel-Tec off. Ruger has the capacity to produce approximately 100,000 LCPs per year, and within a few hours of unveiling the pistol sold out the first year's production. The LCP will be the only other pistol in the P3AT's size/weight/caliber/price range. The Bersa Thunder .380 CC is the same caliber, same price range, and comes close in size with a little more weight. The NAA minis are a good bit heavier, and little more expensive. The Seecamp pistols are much more expensive, and also suffer from extra weight. Kel-Tec's sales of P3ATs indicates that there's room in the market for a competing pistol. How much room there is will be interesting to see. Another choice and a little competition should be a good thing for that market segment.

If the LCP proves successful I'd love to see Ruger make a single stack 9mm similar to the PF9. If they price it like the LCP it would again become only the second choice in that segment at the price range. The Rohrbaugh R9, Kahr P series, and Walther PPS are in the same size/weight segment, but all cost significantly more. (I know about the Skyy pistols, but those aren't produced in any significant numbers that I'm aware of.)

Another neat pistol for Ruger to build would be something Kel-Tec P11 sized. Just as the P11 uses what's essentially a shortened S&W 59x/69x magazine, a Ruger product using P95 or the super slim SR9 mag platform would be interesting. A P95 based magazine would be good for availability of standard size mags, while basing it off the SR9 mag would make it slimmer. All speculation of course.

In the end, can we all please be nice and discuss the pistols in question without so much anger and venom? We're all in this together and more choices on the market mean more pistols in my fellow shooters' hands. Welcome aboard LCP.

Johnny Guest
February 29, 2008, 09:13 AM
For those who attempted to engage in rational discussion and learned discourse, thank you.

For those who MUST attack others who dare criticize a favorite brand - - Cut it out.
For those who jump on a thread and troll fro controversy --- Cut it out.
The term "Fanboy" has come to be a personal attack. Don't do this to one another.

Take a look at two floated entries at the top of this forum: Stephen A. Camp's (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=265428) and
mine (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=133354).

In the meantime, this thread is CLOSED.

Johnny Guest
THR Staff/Moderator

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