[vk704]

This happened I think yesterday morning here in Charlotte. It's a good story until you get to the highlighted area.

NORTHERN CHARLOTTE
Suspect, officer hurt in shooting
12 people detained, including man who was critically injured
GREG LACOUR AND CLEVE R. WOOTSON JR.
glacour@charlotteobserver.com
R. Rivas

Charlotte-Mecklenburg police on Wednesday charged a Salvadoran illegal immigrant and his brother after a visit to a northern Charlotte home resulted in gunfire that wounded the brother and an officer.

Police also detained 10 others living in the Preston Mill subdivision, what residents called a largely Latino neighborhood off Beatties Ford Road near Huntersville. Police have not charged them and did not identify them, but federal authorities have confirmed that they are illegal immigrants.

Gilberto Rivas fired at police at about 5:30 a.m., as they entered the house on Langston Mill Road to serve a criminal warrant on his brother, Rafael, police said. Members of the police SWAT team served the warrant because investigators had received word that the home's occupants had several guns, police said.

One officer suffered minor injuries. Another officer shot back, hitting Gilberto Rivas, who was taken to Carolinas Medical Center with "critical injuries," police said. Police said they plan to charge Rivas with five counts of attempted murder and six counts of assault with a firearm on a law enforcement officer when he's released.

Police charged Rafael Rivas, 32, with the crimes outlined on the warrant, which allege that he falsified N.C. Division of Motor Vehicles car title documents. He also was charged with possession of a weapon of mass destruction, a 7.62 mm assault rifle.

Rafael Rivas was in the county jail on $10,500 bond Wednesday but, as an illegal immigrant, would be turned over to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement if freed. A federal immigration judge would decide whether he should be deported. Rivas is scheduled to appear in District Court at 1 p.m. today.

ICE officials have not determined whether Gilberto Rivas is an illegal immigrant. They plan to interview him as soon as they can about his immigration status, said Richard Rocha, an ICE spokesman in Washington, D.C.

Rafael Rivas has an extensive criminal record dating back more than a decade, though most of the offenses he's been convicted of are minor, N.C. court records show.

From 1998 to 2003, he pleaded guilty to driving while license revoked six times in various N.C. counties. It's unknown whether officers checked his immigration status then.

News outlets reported Wednesday that one or more of the 12 people police detained are suspected members of the notorious MS-13 gang, which was founded in El Salvador and has developed into one of the most dangerous and fastest-growing gangs in the United States.

But police would not confirm membership in MS-13 or any other gang. Police cannot identify people as gang members or suspected gang members unless they are charged with gang-related crimes, said spokeswoman Julie Hill.

Neighbors in the subdivision said they knew little about the people who lived in the blue house.

"Nobody knows what they do," said Ernesto Anaranto, who couldn't get to his house for most of the day because police had blocked part of the street. "They're always inside the house."

At least two children lived there, and some neighbors said they saw police carrying them out of the house early in the morning.

Natalie Cortez, who lives a few houses down, said her family has lived at their two-story house for about five mostly crime-free years, though recently, she's heard reports of home break-ins.

Still, she said, she doesn't feel afraid in the neighborhood, which she described as "pretty quiet."


----------
emphasis mine


Did I miss something. Since when are small arms WMDs??????

[walking arsenal]

weapon of mass destruction, a 7.62 mm assault rifle.


What?

Seriously?

[Vermont]

So we DID find WMDs in Iraq!! And more than we bargained for too.

[ConstitutionCowboy]

God point, Vermont!

Woody

[Geronimo45]

NC has screwy laws on the books. WMD's don't have to be nukes and anthrax - they can be bombs, but I didn't think they could be guns.

[vk704]

Here is the quick note I sent to two of our news channels


Dear Mr. Lacour and Mr. Wootson

I would like to have some clarification on a particular part of that news piece. Were you
quoting the police when you classified that assault rifle as a "weapon of mass destruction"? I
have never heard of a small arm called a WMD. That is very odd. With that logic we can call all
firearms, all edged weapons, all bats and all heavy blunt objects WMDs (even cars), since it's
possible to kill a lot of people with all of those instruments.
I certainly hope the media didn't invent this use of the phrase, on the other hand shame on the
police if they did. It seems a little (OK a lot) sensationalistic to call a rifle (fully
automatic or semi-automatic) a weapon of mass destruction. Is the purpose of this is to frighten people into accepting more and more restrictive gun laws? I just don't get it.

Respectfully,
me

[wheelgunslinger]

Yep. Just around the corner from where I live. Awesome.
For some reason, people don't believe me when I tell them there is no safe area in the CLT area.

WMD's can be potato guns, just so you know. Perhaps the rifle was full auto or something...???

This guy will be a hero in prison (unless he's deported) for shooting a cop, provided he lives through his "critical injuries."

[highorder]

remember, charged with does not equal tried/convicted for. Often prosecutors will charge someone with a high crime to get what they believe is appropriate bail.

that may be the case here.

[Fred Fuller]

Not knowing any more than was revealed in the news story, I'd say it was a rifle that had been sawed off to an illegal length.

Hey, it's NC- get used to it. They've been piling up laws for several centuries without ever doing a good legal housecleaning.

For you black-letter legal beagles, here 'tis:

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_14/gs_14-288.8.html

§ 14?288.8. Manufacture, assembly, possession, storage, transportation, sale, purchase, delivery, or acquisition of weapon of mass death and destruction; exceptions.
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, it is unlawful for any person to manufacture, assemble, possess, store, transport, sell, offer to sell, purchase, offer to purchase, deliver or give to another, or acquire any weapon of mass death and destruction.
(b) This section does not apply to:
(1) Persons exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14?269 with respect to any activities lawfully engaged in while carrying out their duties.
(2) Importers, manufacturers, dealers, and collectors of firearms, ammunition, or destructive devices validly licensed under the laws of the United States or the State of North Carolina, while lawfully engaged in activities authorized under their licenses.
(3) Persons under contract with the United States, the State of North Carolina, or any agency of either government, with respect to any activities lawfully engaged in under their contracts.
(4) Inventors, designers, ordnance consultants and researchers, chemists, physicists, and other persons lawfully engaged in pursuits designed to enlarge knowledge or to facilitate the creation, development, or manufacture of weapons of mass death and destruction intended for use in a manner consistent with the laws of the United States and the State of North Carolina.
(c) The term "weapon of mass death and destruction" includes:
(1) Any explosive or incendiary:
a. Bomb; or
b. Grenade; or
c. Rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces; or
d. Missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one?quarter ounce; or
e. Mine; or
f. Device similar to any of the devices described above; or
(2) Any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell of a type particularly suitable for sporting purposes) which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one?half inch in diameter; or
(3) Any firearm capable of fully automatic fire, any shotgun with a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length or an overall length of less than 26 inches, any rifle with a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length or an overall length of less than 26 inches, any muffler or silencer for any firearm, whether or not such firearm is included within this definition. For the purposes of this section, rifle is defined as a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder; or
(4) Any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into any weapon described above and from which a weapon of mass death and destruction may readily be assembled.
The term "weapon of mass death and destruction" does not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line?throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of Title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the Secretary of the Treasury finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, is an antique, or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes, in accordance with Chapter 44 of Title 18 of the United States Code.
(d) Any person who violates any provision of this section is guilty of a Class F felony. (1969, c. 869, s. 1; 1975, c. 718, ss. 6, 7; 1977, c. 810; 1983, c. 413, ss. 1, 2; 1993, c. 539, s. 1228; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2001?470, s. 3.)

lpl/nc

[highorder]

awesome. So a supressor sitting by itself on the counter is a WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION.

um, I'm not sure you can destroy anything with a can, except maybe a house of cards, or maybe bust up a bag of potato chips...

[bogie]

And HOW does this really pertain to THR's general mission, other than allowing us an opportunity to wonder over the transgressions of lowlifes, and the language used by the uninformed?

[vk704]

bogie

I think it pertains quite well. I think a lot of people in NC were unaware of these idiotic laws. This will get them thinking and talking and hopefully doing something about it.

[K3]

Am I correct in assuming that owning NFA items is verboten in NC?

That's how the law looks to me.

[v8stang289]

no, people in NC can have NFA items.

[wheelgunslinger]

Lee is right. The laws are a mess. Following them through their twists and turns can be like doing a maze puzzle in the back of the daily paper.
NFA legality? Good question.

Bogie:
This story is food for thought for all those people who would blast away at SWAT entering their home. And, it's a slight warning to all those people who think and believe the idea that they" live in a nice place where there are not gangs."
Previous stories on THR about MS13 were located in places where most of the city dwellers and non-southerners would make jokes about banjos and pretty lips instead of thinking about gang activity.
This story is a good example of what can be only a few streets over, or next door, depending on where you live.
Responsible gun owners should be concerned about gangs in their neighborhoods.

[K3]

no, people in NC can have NFA items.

I'm not there, so I'll take your word for it, but the quoted law above makes it seem like that's not the case. It looks to me like there is no exception for NFA stuff obtained via jumping through all the official hoops. But I may have missed something, as legalese gives my little mind fits. :D

[JColdIron]

It's also makes me concerned that they would choose to send SWAT to any house that has guns in it to deliver a warrant. Thats how that college kid got killed in Wilmington.

As for WMD's I've seen in our local paper people with sawed off shotguns charged with WMD posession. There does seem to be some mission creep in the law.;) No surprise there. Seems like a WMD should be capable of killing a significant amount of people- instantanously.

[BattleChimp Potemkin]

Well, keep in mind, we usually only hear what the media reports. They can spew out charges like "weapon of mass destruction" b/c that buzzword has more power than "assault rifle". Im a Communications major, believe me, its how they do it. You tell people via the media that ownership of wrigley long enough, they believe it.

[K3]

Well, keep in mind, we usually only hear what the media reports. They can spew out charges like "weapon of mass destruction" b/c that buzzword has more power than "assault rifle". Im a Communications major, believe me, its how they do it. You tell people via the media that ownership of wrigley long enough, they believe it.

I guess 'Assault Weapon' has been overused and doesn't have the desired effect on the sheep anymore? They needed to take the rhetoric to the next step? Seems logical.

[230RN]

Members of the police SWAT team served the warrant because investigators had received word that the home's occupants had several guns, police said.

Annnnd.... that was it? No other reason cited? Why not? To generate fear over simply having firearms? Is there a legal concept involving slander/libel by omission of relevant facts?

oh, wait a minute.... I just thought of it... the newspapers have the full weight of the First Amendment behind them.... never mind.

... any rifle with a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length or an overall length of less than 26 inches...

And sooo... a single shot .22 rifle sawed to 15.99999999 inches is a weapon of mass death and destruction, but my 6" .357 revolver is not?

I still think lawyers should be prohibited from making laws.

[.cheese.]

well.... cross NC off of my list of places I'd live.

I'm guessing my AR's are WMD's.

[v8stang289]

K3, a few people I know have full autos, and theres a class 3 dealer down the road. I know the law reads like they arent allowed at all, but as long as you jump through the hoops and your local sheriff signs off on it, you can have NFA items. :)

[K3]

K3, a few people I know have full autos, and theres a class 3 dealer down the road. I know the law reads like they arent allowed at all, but as long as you jump through the hoops and your local sheriff signs off on it, you can have NFA items.

That's good.

Now the hoops need to be done away with.

[BattleChimp Potemkin]

The way they make it sound it seemed like the guy was weaponizing the common cold in his trunk or something.

[vk704]

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/vk704/762wmd.jpg

This is the WMD from the news report

[vk704]

Doesn't that magazine look too small for 7.62x39???

[K3]

Almost looks like 9mm or some other pistol caliber.

[BlazingAngel01]

It is a H&K USC.

Cal .45 ACP

[jerkyman45]

Wow...first they mislabel "assault weapons" and now they outright call a rifle a WMD. I am honestly appalled at their blatent anti-gun journalism, though I suppose I shouldn't be surprised considering the trend of the media in regard to the 2A. And correct me if I'm wrong, but that gun in VK704's post looks more like a USC to me then anything else.

[NetJunkie]

That's an HK. It's either a USC converted to a UMP or a UMP..either way in .45. If it's a real UMP w/ Full Auto then it will fall under the WMD listing in the NC books.

[Zoogster]

More important than the individual is the charge. It is a sad thing when people support such wrong and misleading legislation as long as it is used on people we can agree to dislike.

However when we allow the rights of someone else to be reduced we allow our own and those of our children and future generations to be reduced as well.

I think we can all agree that the term "Weapon of Mass Destruction" is extremely misleading legislation when the term is generaly taken to mean chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons.
They probably passed the law on "weapons of mass destruction" in an underhanded way because nobody opposed the possession of what most consider weapons of mas destruction, when in reality it had to do with a lot of standard infantry weapons.

I don't care if the devil himself was found with a pocket knife, it is not a "skewer of the world" or a "weapon of mass destruction". Neither is any conventional small arm.

The idiocy people will agree with as long as it originaly targets undesirables.

I guess all of us in other states need to be on the lookout for "weapons of mass destruction" laws that might ban guns as well.

[fletcher]

We have a terrible illegal immigrant problem in NC.

people in NC can have NFA items.
That is correct. I know of a couple individuals that legally own them.

From 1998 to 2003, he pleaded guilty to driving while license revoked six times in various N.C. counties. It's unknown whether officers checked his immigration status then.
I don't think they are technically allowed to in NC.

[30 cal slob]

§ 14?288.8. Manufacture, assembly, possession, storage, transportation, sale, purchase, delivery, or acquisition of weapon of mass death and destruction; exceptions.
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, it is unlawful for any person to manufacture, assemble, possess, store, transport, sell, offer to sell, purchase, offer to purchase, deliver or give to another, or acquire any weapon of mass death and destruction.
(b) This section does not apply to:
(1) Persons exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14?269 with respect to any activities lawfully engaged in while carrying out their duties.
(2) Importers, manufacturers, dealers, and collectors of firearms, ammunition, or destructive devices validly licensed under the laws of the United States or the State of North Carolina, while lawfully engaged in activities authorized under their licenses.(3) Persons under contract with the United States, the State of North Carolina, or any agency of either government, with respect to any activities lawfully engaged in under their contracts.
(4) Inventors, designers, ordnance consultants and researchers, chemists, physicists, and other persons lawfully engaged in pursuits designed to enlarge knowledge or to facilitate the creation, development, or manufacture of weapons of mass death and destruction intended for use in a manner consistent with the laws of the United States and the State of North Carolina.


i think the tax stamp counts as a "license" under NC law.

[Erebus]

He also was charged with possession of a weapon of mass destruction, a 7.62 mm assault rifle. Strangely the same people that will insist on calling a semi-auto rifle in 7.62mm a WMD will also scream that Saddam had no WMD.

Even in their hypocrisy they can't keep their story straight.

[brigadier]

Gauiesh, don't tell me the makers of the Nuke-50 .50BMG round came out with a 7.62x39.

[benEzra]

I'm guessing my AR's are WMD's.
Only if they are SBR's, or are illegally converted to full auto.

I agree that calling even an SBR or machinegun a "weapon of mass destruction" makes the term absolutely meaningless. If a small-caliber rifle is a "WMD", what term are you supposed to use for a nuclear weapon" Weapon of Humongous Destruction (WHD)?

[highorder]

Weapons of Terrible Ferociousness...

***

[NG VI]

If we're renaming things then I'll name most MSM editorials and stories that are infected with editorializing Weapons of Apoplectic Rage, since that is what they inspire in me.

W.A.R.

[CaptMac]

Yes civilians can own NFA firearms in NC, I am a retired LEO from NC and have owned several NFA weapons. NC General Statute 14-288 has been on the books a long time, and long before WMD became a everyday word. One with an understanding of the the general statutes and the elements required for a violation, I would assume the AK the suspect was in possession of had been modified to fire more then once with a single pull of the trigger or had the barrel shortened less than 16 inches. If you want a screwy law research what constitutes a machinegun under District of Columbia Code, you will find it has nothing to do with firing more than one round with a single pull of the trigger.