[4v50 Gary]

Hi,

Too lazy to look it up so I want to ask you guys. In his book, The Rough Riders, Teddy Roosevelt mentioned that some Spainards were using Remington rolling blocks against them. These were smokeless guns. What caliber were they? 7 mm like their Mausers or was it something different? Please cite the source too. Thanks,

Gary

[Gewehr98]

Perhaps the ammunition logistics would dictate Rolling Blocks would also be chambered in 7mm Mauser?

Or are you thinking they were leftover Rolling Blocks in .43 Spanish?

Good question! Somewhere there's a page out there that lists Remington Rolling Block production figures and sales to foreign militaries.

[iamkris]

Went to this site http://www.spanamwar.com/ and unfortunately they only list the Spaniards as using 93 Mausers. No other reference...will keep looking.

[Lone Star]

The Dons had Remingtons in .43 Spanish, and later (I don't know when) converted some to 7X57mm, but these shouldn't be fired with modern ammo.

The M93 Mauser was phasing these out, with the front-line regular troops getting Mausers first.

Winston Churchill, then a young cavalry officer, did a tour as an observer in Cuba in 1895. He mentioned the Mausers and the Remingtons, which he said the rebels had some of. Didn't mention the caliber. I think that was in, "My Early Life".

Lone Star

[Tamara]

I'd guess they were in .43 Spanish...

[mete]

1871 spanish remington 11.15x58R (.43) A while back the TNT network had a very fine movie about the Spanish American war. It was directed by the gun nut John Milius and it was fantastic , all the guns were appropriate and the black powder cartridges used blackpowder and the more modern ones used smokeless!! They even have a 1" gatling, ever see one of those in a movie ? I don't know if that's available for purchase.
)

[Jim Watson]

Sure enough, TR says:

"They were using, not Mausers, but Remingtons, which shot smokeless powder and a brass-coated bullet. It was one of these bullets which had hit Winslow Clark by my side on Kettle Hill; and though for long-range fighting the Remingtons were, of course, nothing like as good as the Mausers, they were equally serviceable for short-range bush work, as they used smokeless powder."

I thought the 7mm Rolling Block was the Model 1902 but saw a 7mm "1897" listed on a sale site. (TR in Cuba in 1899.) So they might have had them.

The Spaniards definitely had the .43 Spanish Reformado with the famous "Poison Bullet" - a brass jacketed bullet that grew verdigris copper corrosion in the tropics - but that was a black powder round even though the bullet was jacketed.

Did the Spaniards have 7mm Rolling Blocks? Did they have smokeless ammo for their .43s?

I dunno

[Tamara]

Unfortunately, Mssr. Hogg doesn't mention whether the Rolling Blocks got re-barreled in 7mm or not, either... :(

[Jagermeister]

Gary:
From Military Small Arms of the 20th Century 6th Edition:
By Ian V Hogg & John Weeks

RIDER
Other Names: Remington Rolling Block
Remington Rider
Mfg: E. Remington & Sons
Ilon NY
DENMARK:

Model: 1867
Mfg: Remington & Sons
Year of Mfg: 1867-70
Quantity: 40,450

Gevaerfabrik, Kjonbenhaven 1870-88
Quantity: 80,000 Exclude conversions
Caliber: 11.7X51mm Rimmed
Action: Radial Block
Length: 1,280mm
Weight: 4.20kg
Barrel Length: 907mm
Groove: 5 RH concentric
—Velocity: 375m/sec W/1867 Ball ctg

The rolling block breech, developed from the earlier split breech pattern credited to Leonard Geiger, was the subject of patents granted to Joseph Rider in the late 1860's. The essence of the
system lay in an interlock between a sturdy hammer and the radial breech piece.

The US Army did not view the rolling blocks with any enthusiasm, foreign governments ordering more. Denmark ordered substantial numbers of the rifles and carbines in a ;year in which the Rider breech received a silver medal from the Paris Exposition.

Remington ton claimed sales of 16,500 rifles and carbines to the US Army, 23,000 to the Navy 15,000 model 1871 Locking rifles to New :Your State and 5,000 rifle musket conversions to South Carolina. Among export orders 75,000 rifles and carbines supplied to Spain for use in Cuba, beginning in 1867 and 30,000 guns; for Sweden from 1868 forward.

Differing patterns advertised were the .50 caliber, US Model 1871, .58 Caliber Springfield rifle muskets, long and short, the .43 or 11mm caliber Spanish Remington or Russian, .43 Caliber Civil Guard model and the .43 French model chambered for the Egyptian Cog. these models were also made in the .43 and .50 caliber carbines.

Military weapons were also made for Denmark, caliber 8X58mm rimmed, and a carbine in the same caliber as the 1887 Infantry rifle. Egypt also purchased the Rider in caliber 11.43X50mm rimmed in 1868, with Mexico purchasing 10,000 in caliber 7X57mm rimless. Norway purchased 5,800 in 1867 in caliber 12.17mm rimmed, and 8X58mm rimmed cartridge.

Spain Purchased the American rifle, carbine, version, (Spanish) Remington) in 1870 caliber 11X58mm rimmed. Subsequent purchases by Spain were affected in 1871 for the Royal body guard rifle, infantry rifles, short rifles and carbines.

JM:D