Bad IPSC Experience yesterday...

[-terry]

This is a bit long, but I had a very unhappy experience at the range today. My question to you guys is what are your restrictions for use of the part of your range (what I call the Gun Games area)?

Thanks.

-terry

[1911NM]

Doesn't seem very long to me. But to your question, the Action Pistol and Cowboy action area of the range here is just that. Rimfire pistol, centerfire pistol, and Cowboy action, mostly pistol cartridges even in the long guns, and shottys. Any thing else is banninated to the rifle ranges due to twits bearing EBG's shooting holes in any steel left on the pistol range.

[Hoser]

Restrictions as in caliber, firearm type, ammo type, minimum age, ect?

Exactly what are you looking for?

[-terry]

Just wondering what kind a rules other clubs have concerning use of active bays for practicing for IPSC, IDPA, etc.

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

You must be talking about Custer.

-Steve

[1911NM]

Fess up Terry. We don't want to play 20 questions. :D

[Hoser]

Easy, assuming I understand the question.

If we have a stage set up on a berm, its closed to people that arent shooting the match.

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

I'm a member of Custer Sportsmens Club. We have some Pin bays. Falling plate bays, and several IPSC/IDPA bays that are used for competition. There are no practice sessions unless the the match coordinator has scheduled something. There are several scheduled matches every year. And much of the setup by volunteers takes days, weather and daylight permitting. For anyone to just go shoot any time they want would be a huge disregard for for those people's efforts. There are several police associations that also use one or two designated bays for thier practice. As much as I like to shoot Pins, I don't very often since there is no practice. With coordination with the match director, I have been able to test some lead loads on Pins. But the rules in so many words say that the only time any of the areas at the north end of the club grounds will only be used for matches. Most of this I believe revolves around danger/liability as this is not a traffic area. Not a high use area. Vehicle access is restricted by a gate across the road. There have been theft and vandlism in that section of the grounds so member access is even restricted during the week. Occasionally I'll walk back there to scrounge for brass. Occasionally I'll walk into a police training exercise. -I don't like when they go full auto. I leave immediately.

I shoot Bullseye regularly, and I can't use the indoor range 'just any old time I want to'. If I could, I'd be more competitive. (Although I'm holding first place in the county league anyway)

This is one of the few clubs that doesn't have a range officer on the line full time. We can shoot alone from 9am to dusk at the rifle or pistol range. For ~$100 a year to be able to shoot seven days a week, we're pretty spoiled.

Try to do that at Plantation Range in Bellingham! Try to do that at Kenmore or Paul Bunyan!

Terry, I don't know what happened, but I'm sure that you can still have a good time at the club. There are rules. Most of which are in place for safety sake. I assure you, There really are some great people there.
One must realize though, that there's a strong group of IPSC croud at our club. The new president has many followers. Disagreeing with those that have been members and bring in a lot of money for the club for some 20, 30, or 40 years may not be in anyone's best interest.

Let us know what happened, at least. I'm not a board member, just a fellow member. I am capable of being quite unbiased and will let you know my opinion regarding yours or another member/RO/Match Director's actions.

PM me if you'd like, we can discuss by phone.

-Steve

[akanotken]

There is no universal answer to that question, you are responsible for knowing the rules of the range and abiding by them.

I shoot at numerous local ranges. There's an indoor range where you'd have to get special permission during a dead time of the day to go forward of the shooting boths, there's a private range where the owner doesn't like any rapid fire, firing on the move, etc, so action shooting is only for the match, or a few folks he implicitly trusts. The club I'm a member of has unsupervised bays where action shooting is permitted, all gear is stowed elsewhere, tho there are often a target stand or two left out. Still another is further away, but with membership all area's are open to whatever as long as they aren't occupied.

Really hard to answer the question in it's current (ambigous) state.

[Mt Shooter]

Bays are usually closed for an event that would otherwise be open to members otherwise. It is set up that evening and over with by mid afternoon the following day. One day a month during the season. Not a big deal, the 25 yd pistol bay remains open as always. Does that answer your question?

[Sam1911]

Hi!

Just as a counterpoint:

My club has a rifle range, indoor pistol range, and seven other pit ranges of various sizes and configurations that are designated for different kinds of arms. (Pistols, shotguns, carbines on some. Pistol only on others, etc. Several have permanently set up steel racks, some have actual firing stations, two have "shoot houses.")

When there is not a scheduled match using those ranges, they are open to the general membership to use. We have just under 1000 members, at last count. Cost of membership is $60/year IIRC. Shooting hours outdoors are 8:00 am to dark, 365, except for some closures for opening day of deer season and such, or if there is a firearms class or training session going on. Indoors is open anytime the bullseye guys or us (IDPA) don't have practice or a match scheduled.

I suppose we're spoiled, but it works for us.

[-terry]

Thanks for all the replies, guys. Like everything else, it looks like some ranges are better in this regard than Custer, some arte worse. I'm told that the BOD will raise the issue of practice in the active bays again soon and I'll be interested to see what they decide.

Currently, it looks like if I can get the approval of the Discipline Chairman, I can practice in the active bays. Just how I (or anyone else for that matter) can get that approval is a bit vague. My current understanding is that I have to shoot some IPSC matches and if the DC is comfortable with my shooting and demeanor he can give me some sort of formal or informal permission. I don't exactly understand.

My concern is that if I can't practice when there is no one around and where I can take as long as I want to figure things out, I can't learn the things I need to know to be as safe as possible when the pressure is on. I did an observation last week instead of trying to shoot. Looks like you can get DQ'd for a lot of things. Some of these I can practice at home, some not.

Overall, however, it looked like fun and the guys I met were fantastic. I think I'll try to shoot next month but probably never in the history of the Custer club will they see a shooter so slow and deliberate as I'll probably be while I try to keep everything in mind with having had no practice. Sigh....
-terry

[Mt Shooter]

if your shooting IPSC, or USPSA i doubt a word will but said, except for the positive.

[Hoser]

Looks like you can get DQ'd for a lot of things.

Might I suggest reading over the rulebook. You can download the whole thing at www.uspsa.org

Get out there and give it a try. I cant tell you how many people tell me they arent good enough to compete. They never get out there and even try. We al had a first match.

[yar]

Terry you think too much. We all just jumped in and got our feet wet.

Just go out there with the mission to not shoot yourself or anyone else, not get DQ'ed, and have fun.

No need to go super slow and delibrate. Just walk(not run) through the course and make sure you see something before you pull the trigger. No need to get super tight double alphas. Get a good sight picture on the tough shots and make sure you see something on the easy stuff.

It's suppose to be fun. Don't worry the RO will keep you safe as long as your finger is not on the trigger when it's not suppose to be (when your moving)

[BullfrogKen]

Sam, we have it extremely good at WSSA. Its easy to forget.


I hope you get things worked out there on the west coast.

[atek3]

I'm a bit lucky. My home range, Grafton Fish and Game is a private club and we have a fifty yard bay for pistols. If you're the only one there (which is a frequent phenomenon) you can just go there any time, set up targets and blast away. It's even got some steel against the berm so if you're bored you can bang an IPSC gong at 50 yards with your pistol.

Then again, back when I lived in California there was no place that simply allowed an IPSC shooter to practice whenever convenient within 50 miles.

atek3

[yar]

Regarding private ranges where you have to join there are several places to practice ipsc in So Cal. Raahauges, Rockpile, SWPL, Piru. All within a hour from me in Long Beach.

[Shooter57]

Just asking, why would a club have a range for matches only and not allow it's members to use that range for practice when matches are not scheulded? Is that not the purpose of having the range so hopefully your members will be at the top during the matches. Hope I said that right.

[-terry]

Well, it doesn't make too much sense. At Custer, we can use the active bays for practice, apparently, but the hoops you need to jump through are not totally clear.

[1911NM]

That was part of what I didn't understand Terry. At the local San Juan Wildlife Federation range, if there is no match scheduled, one can go practice in any of the berm areas. I do agree with other posters though. Just take a deep breath, go out there and shoot a match. Here almost all new shooters walk through their first match with coaching by an RO. Had a new shooter here last weekend, wasn't sure if he was good enough, yadda yadda yadda. He had a blast, not fast, but he had a hoot and discovered not all the competitors are GM or A shooters.

[JohnKSa]

Frankly, based on your posts on this thread, I would say you are not cut out for IPSC.

It looks to me like you are way to worried about how you will look to others. You wouldn't just post up front what your problem was for fear people would think badly of you and you won't just go shoot an IPSC match for fear that you might make a mistake.

You had to dance around the real issue of your post until someone basically guessed the situation and gave you an answer. And you want to go practice a lot privately before you will go shoot with witnesses.

You WILL make mistakes. That's part of the point. You make mistakes, learn from them and become a better competitor and a better shooter. If you can't stand the idea of making mistakes in front of other shooters then you might want to look into other types of competitions.

[MarcusWendt]

Frankly, based on your posts on this thread, I would say you are not cut out for IPSC.

I disagree. I just think Terry's a bit nervous. I sure as hell was my first time out. He may have been heavily cautioned by someone who put the fear of god in him. It happens.

I don't mind people watching, but when I screw up and there are a bunch of people watching including the President of USPSA, I don't care for it as much. Still, I've seen some major shooters really screw the pooch just like I have in the past. 99% of the time people are VERY cool about it. I've had one impatient jerk yell at me for "sweeping him", which I did in fact, not do, but he thought I did. I let it go and wrote it off.

I was nervous too, I got over at Terry and so will you.

It's like sex, you're nervous the first time, but once you get past that you can't wait to do it again.

[JohnKSa]

99% of the time people are VERY cool about it.Because they either know they'll be in your position in the not too distant future or they're remembering the last time they were. ;)

[-terry]

Well, I'll let you all know in a month whether I'm cut out for it or not. I planto shoot it. If I don't like, I'll try something else (I race radio control sailboats).
If I like it, I'll do it again. If not, then not.

I'm not particularly nervous about looking bad, I'm anxious about the safety aspects. I'll let you know how it turns out.

[testar77]

There are 3- 25yd pistol bays which average 10-12 positions in each pistol bay, and most of the time you could potentially have a whole bay to yourself and go forward and shoot shorter distances if you want! There is a section of the rifle range that goes out to 50' that you can also shoot pistols at, so that adds another ohh let's guess another 25 or so spots (not even counting all the +50yd rifle stuff). So for our small area that seems like quite a bit of practice areas to me! Now let's get to exactly what this guy is WHINING about! We have bays in the back specifically for CAS, IPSC, Pins, Falling Plates, and one set up for LEO's. Now our CLUB RULES prevent just anyone from going back where the bays are by yourself, reason being: there are way to many stupid people out there, and without the Discipline chair knowing you, and your habits, or another RO, who knows if you are one of those stupid people or not! I personally have no problem with the rules, I infact like the rules that prohibit just anyone from going back there. I would suggest that if it is that big of an issue (which it apparently is) either find another club or deal with it.

[yar]

I frequent a number of ranges to shoot the various matches offered. Each range has it's own range politics. Fortunately I have learned enough to have a good idea of what I can do, cannot do, and when to ask for permission before I do. Now this varies greatly from range to range. I can only imagine what it is like for a new shooter to the sport to try to figure these things out.

If it was a matter that he wandered to some back bay to try to practice and some long standing club memeber went to put him in his place then that is unfortunate. Possibly it could of been handled more diplomaticly by one or both parties. I'm just saying because I see this stuff all the time. People are expected to know but there are no signs posted. Old time club members who feel it is their job to enforce range policies but take it too far. Who knows.

[Mt Shooter]

Just relax, know where your muzzle is pointed, keep your finger off the trigger, and most important have a good time. If you have questions the R.O. will be happy to answer them. First timers can be intimidated by seeing a GM with brass flying everywhere, take your time, go for an accurate shot, speed will come. In other words walk before you run.

[-terry]

Thanks, MtShooter. That's just what I'll try to do. I've offered to help them set up next month's shoot. That should give me a chance to see the stages and ask a bunch of questions.

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

I've offered to help them set up next month's shoot. That should give me a chance to see the stages and ask a bunch of questions.

Now that's the spirit!!! :D

-Steve

[JohnKSa]

I've offered to help them set up next month's shoot. That should give me a chance to see the stages and ask a bunch of questions.That is a very wise move. As one of my coworkers would say, you must have a good brain. ;)

Please let us know how it turns out.

[Hoser]

So if I understand everything, you went to the range one afternoon while an IPSC/USPSA match was going on.

You found a berm that had a stage set up on it and there were no shooters there. You then proceeded to shoot the IPSC targets like you might if you were at the match?

Please correct me if I am wrong.

[yar]

No sounds to me that they have designated bays for club matches that the general club membership is not allowed to use without permission. The poster not knowing, wandered back there to practice. This was not during a match.

This is actually common at many private ranges. The problem is there generally are not signs posted letting people know this.

http://thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4281611&postcount=26

[earplug]

I'm confused, in order to shoot IPSC you need to pass a range safety test by a RO. You join and get a card.
That card should be enough to qualify you to practice at your range if they shoot IPSC matches.

[-terry]

EarPlug,
That's exactly what I thought. I got a complete and thorough walk-through and in addition, my coach set up several mock stages for me to walk through. When finished, I got a card that he said would let me shoot IPSC anywhere.

When I asked how to get the admittance card so I could practice using the active bays, I was refused. It now appear that I have to get specific approval from the action shooting discipline chairman before I can practice in the active bays. This is what confused me.

I'll just keep working on it until I get permission. I understand that the Board of Directors is going to take up the admission requirements again this year.

Weather permitting (I'm a fair weather shooter) I'll try the 4/6 match.

-terry

[raytracer]

-terry,

I'd much rather see someone hesitantly cautious than someone just jump in thinking they know it all. I don't think I've ever seen anyone who had to be cajoled into shooting DQ'd, but I've seen swaggering "gunslingers" get sent for ice cream before they could get off the "X".

If you've had a good safety briefing, don't sweat it. Go out there and shoot. Don't worry about the clock, just concentrate on moving safely and gettin good hits. Speed will come.

Your plan of getting there early and helping setup will help introduce you to the more experienced shooters and make your situation known. I expect you'll get a lot of coaching and suggestions.

I can echo one some of your frustration, I shoot IPSC and IDPA to try and increase my shooting skills. But when I shoot at a match, I rarely get to shoot the stage again to learn from my mistakes. There is only one range I have access to that allows anything but slow fire from a bench and it's an hour drive away.

For now, shoot all the matches you can and keep working on them until they let you use the range for practice during downtimes.

And, do like I'm doing; start saving to move out of the city so you can set up your own range!

Joe

[ronwill]

Caliber, age, rest of range is closed during actual competitions (one Saturday a month). There's also the normal range rules. Hearing protection, no alcoholic beverages, etc.