what is the legal procedure if you lose a firearm?


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gixxanikk
February 28, 2008, 05:09 PM
I hear a lot of guys on here saying when it comes to posting pics of their guns or listing what guns they own, "I use to own one of those", or "what gun? I don't own a gun." I get it that you wouldn't want just anyone knowing what you own. But what I don't understand is whether or not it really matters what you say since the ATF knows what you own anyway assuming all of your firearms are purchased legally. What I am getting at is what happens if for some reason the government starts taking firearms from citizens or tells citizens they must turn in their weapons for whatever reason they manufacture . What happens if you say you lost your gun or it got stolen, you cannot produce your firearm for one reason or another? If you 'lost' your firearm should you report it?

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El Tejon
February 28, 2008, 05:16 PM
Your home, office, business, etc. will be searched.

Car Knocker
February 28, 2008, 06:35 PM
since the ATF knows what you own anyway assuming all of your firearms are purchased legally.
Sorry but how would BATF know if I buy a gun from the guy next door? There are no federal requirements that such a sale go through an FFL or that any paperwork be filed somewhere and Utah certainly has no such requirement.

Zoogster
February 28, 2008, 07:03 PM
since the ATF knows what you own anyway assuming all of your firearms are purchased legally.
The whole country is not yet run by those in Chicago, and Obama does not yet have his way.

In much of the nation private party sales are still as American as apple pie. In some of those places no permit or permission is required to own a gun.

The ATF can trace firearm purchases to an FFL, and through that record to the last official purchaser. Through some state records that require pistol permits or FIDs FOIDs or automaticly register transfers to successive owners.

However not all of the nation is like that. The 2nd was created to allow the people to be armed in case the government became tyrannical. It kinda defeats the purpose if the government can keep and maintain a shopping list of owners. The 1986 GOPA also bans the government including the "ATF" from keeping, maintaining or in any way contributing to the creation or use of such a database. It is the same law that outlaws post 86 machineguns. Ironicly the no new machineguns is strictly enforced, but the part about not maintaining any records is conveniently ignored.

gixxanikk
February 28, 2008, 07:15 PM
Ok, understood. Being from the liberal run city of Chicago, I was not aware that you could in any part of the country still purchase a firearm from the guy next door. Good to know, thanks for the info.

sacp81170a
February 28, 2008, 07:26 PM
I was not aware that you could in any part of the country still purchase a firearm from the guy next door.

That's precisley why closing the "gun show loophole" is such a high priority for the antis. The fact that every FFL dealer has the same record keeping and background check requirements at a gun show as they do in their stores matters not a whit to them. It's the private party transfers in states that don't require them to go through an FFL that they're really after.

As to your original question, it depends on the reporting requirements in your local jurisdiction. It's plain common sense to keep records of the firearms you own and their serial numbers for insurance purposes, if nothing else. Those records, however, are none of the government's business. If you have one or more firearms stolen, you should report them as such, since in many cases the firearms are recovered and returned to their rightful owners. I've seen this happen a lot. A friend of mine had several pistols stolen and all but one was returned after our local burglary task force broke up a burglary ring.

He was more than happy that they had been returned. The other thing that can bite you is if a gun is stolen that traces to you and then turns up as being used in a crime. Then you got some 'splainin to do. Not a comfortable position and one where you would definitely benefit from legal counsel. Can you say "Cha-ching?"

gym
February 28, 2008, 07:47 PM
In Ny mu carry weapons "I had two" as said above, had both guns and the serial numbers on the license. If you had a problem, they would know right there and then that you had anothe weapon and that the one you had was the one on the license. When moving to FL, nothing is on the license other than the holders info. the hame number etc. When First moving down here I asked how does anyone keep track. The truth is, they don't have the manpower or the money to do that, that's why you see the gun show thing on 60 minutes every once in a while. There are dealers who I have heard of who ignore the paperwork, and the same for civilians, they routinlly buy guns on places like Craigs list, or from friends, it's just a fact of life, I have no need or reason to do anything like that, plus you don't know where that sucker has been as someone mentioned, but I have seen guns listed in various pennysavers etc. so someone must be buying them

springer7676
March 1, 2008, 08:05 PM
Any gun that is stolen should be reported. Any gun that is lost should be reported. They are traceable to the last owner believe me.

Jim K
March 1, 2008, 08:14 PM
Tracing a gun can be easy or hard, and a lot depends on why the trace is being done. In a high profile case (Mr. Oswald, say), the police and feds will lean hard enough on anybody in the chain that they WILL get answers. And the guy who had it will be very happy to tell them to whom he sold it just to get them off his back. They will make things very unpleasant for anyone who won't or even can't help them. They might not use waterboarding (too messy) but other forms of inflicting pain would not be ruled out. (Oh, that is against the rules? What are rules?)

Jim

TAB
March 1, 2008, 08:42 PM
I would report it Asap to the local PD( and keep a record of it... ie copy of form blah blah blah/ crime report)... The last thing you want is for it to be used in a crime and have it traced back to you.( serail numbers or finger prints...)

ilbob
March 2, 2008, 03:47 PM
I would report the loss of theft of a firearm just as I would report the loss or theft of any valuable item.

thorazine
March 4, 2008, 02:07 AM
Any gun that is stolen should be reported. Any gun that is lost should be reported. They are traceable to the last owner believe me.

How?

Example:

Firearm was sold to an individual at an FFL in 1996.

Since then it has exchanged hands six times.

Not counting the original owner (who filled out a 4473) only one out of the five private party transferrers required a bill of sale.


Assuming that the bill of sale occurred when the firearm was transfered from owner number one to owner number two (or any combination excluding transfer of title between owners five and six); how would this firearm be traceable to the last owner?

TAB
March 4, 2008, 11:05 AM
Ever been finger printed for any reason? Say like employment, drivers lic( some states requring a thumb print) or for a school?

Now how many finger prints are on your guns right now?( not just on the out side) how many on the mags or ammo?

M2 Carbine
March 4, 2008, 11:41 AM
what is the legal procedure if you lose a firearm?

It depends on what you mean by "lose".

If I lost it through theft I'd report it.
If it fell overboard while I was fishing in the Gulf of Mexico I wouldn't bother reporting it.

The last thing you want is for it to be used in a crime and have it traced back to you.( serail numbers or finger prints...)

No big deal.
A 45 that I bought from a dealer and sold was used in a killing.
A detective called me.
I said I got rid of the gun and had no idea where it went.
The end.

springer7676
March 4, 2008, 11:04 PM
Not counting the original owner (who filled out a 4473) only one out of the five private party transferrers required a bill of sale.

First the handgun has to have a reason to be traced. If there is no reason to trace it, then of course the action to trace is not instigated.

1. if used in a crime
2. reported stolen
3. the government decides to confiscate handguns or at minimum register all handguns.

All the police need is one FFL data entry. From then own depending on the urgency as one member posted above, the police will trace the weapon. They do this by starting at the first step and then proceeding on down the list of where the handgun changed hands. Of course any one in the list can lie to the police. This goes with a warning however, if you lie and found out, your premises will be searched. All weapons on such premises are then subject to confiscation and a proved lie makes you a felon. etc etc.

A handgun that you bought as a say a war relic or older than FFL might go undetected and if it never had a reason to be traced it of course does not legally exist. If step 3 above however was law, then registration or confiscation is the rule...

I was being rather dramatic in my first post verses a reality check that in some cases tracing might dead end before the original owner is determined. Recently I asked this same question of a retired police captain. His reply was, yes they could trace it back depending on how important it was to trace it. He mentioned insurance data bases, FFL data bases, concealed carry data bases, inheritance, etc...and then capped if off with the Australia gun action. If they want them or if they are determined in the trace, its very hard to elude them.

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