A question about CZs


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Quoheleth
February 28, 2008, 05:59 PM
Couple weeks ago I posted the thread, "What's the big deal about CZs" and the consensus was "Go handle one and you'll find out." Made a horrible slip of judgement this afternoon at the gun range. Fellow had a CZ75B in .40. Saw pistol. Admired lines. Noted smaller size grip. Asked to see it and handle it.

Mistake.

Now I want one. :D

My problem is that with my short fingers, I could not reach the trigger DA. If it were cocked (in SA mode) I could reach the trigger with the tip of my trigger finger. Do any of the models have a shorter reach to the trigger (what's that called...length of pull?)? Is the SA trigger reach on the 75b SA the same as if I had the DA/SA model in SA mode? Is the P-01 shorter to the trigger?

I'm not looking to buy one anytime soon - I'm saving my money for a Texas CHL - but if I found one used at a good price, I might be tempted to give Mr. Mastercard a workout.

Q

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DENALI
February 28, 2008, 06:18 PM
The PO1 is shorter to the trigger. Just an awesome pistol for the money. It's right up there with Glock IMO.....The .40 version is however only available in steel....

Quoheleth
February 28, 2008, 06:28 PM
Sorry...I would prefer the 9, since that's what my other auto is. Also, all-steel is fine with me.

Q

Tokugawa
February 28, 2008, 06:35 PM
The reach was my concern also. No problem, at the range I tried double action shooting every shot, no problem holding 6" at 25 yards, first time out. Also, I suppose one could carry it on the half cock notch, that brings the trigger back a bit. CZ experts comment on this condition, please?

armoredman
February 28, 2008, 07:19 PM
The half cock does not bring the trigger back any appreciablt amount in the PO1 or PCR series.
If you like SA, there is a CZ-75 single action pistol available, http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=33 Trigger pull is definately shorter! Also, any standard CZ-75 pistol, not the decockers PO1 and PCR, can be carried cocked and locked. This was one feature that endeared the CZ75 to Col Jeff Cooper, he who only loved 1911s.
Go try one is SA mode, or see if you can find a CZ-75 SA, which is avialble in both 9mm and 40SW.

JDGray
February 28, 2008, 07:51 PM
The recurved trigger on the new models, makes so little of a difference, its almost hard to tell, but it is a bit closer. I havn't had a SA only in my hands, on the fear of buying yet another CZ:D

Peter M. Eick
March 2, 2008, 08:20 AM
If you are looking around, keep in mind that the Witness series follows the 75b lines and you can find Springfield P9's that are clones of the original 75's.

The Springfield's are very nice and keep them in mind.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/cz_clones.jpg

The P9's are on the right.

LUPUS
March 2, 2008, 09:55 AM
The SAOnly CZ trigger reach is definately longer than the TDA pistols single action trigger reach.
I had the same problem with you.
I solved it by adding slim aluminium grips and a curved trigger.
When I put the pistol in the half cock notch, even in the double action pull, the trigger can be reached easyly.

Regards.

Ricebrnr
March 2, 2008, 10:15 AM
IF you like the original CZ 75B that much but are concerned about the trigger pull, you may want to consider the Armalite AR-24. The curve on the backstrap is more pronounced and may provide a short reach for you.

It's gotten decent reviews but magazines are not interchangable with Cz's.

Dobe
March 2, 2008, 10:26 AM
+1 on the AR-24.

The firing pin stop is the 1911 type also instead of the roll pin found in the CZ.
It can be carried cocked and locked.
I have small hands, and find both the SA CZ and AR-24 easy to shoot. The AR-24 is the favorite.

Walkalong
March 2, 2008, 11:53 AM
Since Witness pistols came up. The Elite Match (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=50134&d=1167444396) is SA and the trigger is a pretty short reach. Great gun. I love 1911's and like the trigger on the Elite Match. Very nice. I would assume the CZ single action guns are very nice as well.

armoredman
March 2, 2008, 01:05 PM
Springfield P9 IS a Tanfoglio, imported by SA during that short period. Tanfoglio CZ clones have been imported under the names TA-90, TZ-75, Excam, Springfield P9, Baby Eagle/Jericho 941, (both slides and frames made by Tanfoglio), and the Witness. Excellent sidearms, carried a Witness 40 for 13+ years, before I went to the originals.
I gotta say I love CZ, works perfectly for me.
PS, AR24 is the Sarsilmaz clone of the Tanfoglio, a clone of a clone, but it is said to be a good solid sidearm.

Dobe
March 4, 2008, 12:57 AM
PS, AR24 is the Sarsilmaz clone of the Tanfoglio, a clone of a clone, but it is said to be a good solid sidearm.


I keep hearing that "clone of a clone", but being a 1911 platform kinda guy, I appreciate clones. Clones are a good thing, as is evolution. :)

Quoheleth
March 4, 2008, 01:23 AM
Lemme see if I'm following...

* Comparing the CZ75B "standard" DA/SA model's trigger reach (set in SA, cocked & locked mode) vs. the CZ75B-SA's trigger, the SA trigger is still longer to reach than the DA/SA model?

* And, the Sarsilmaz is a 2x copy of the CZ? THe CZ is within $10 of the Sasilmaz at the local Academy. What's the review of the Sarsilmaz?

* And, finally, it seems as if the NIB prices seem to hover around the $400 mark for a new CZ75B DA/SA. I've seen a few on-line for less, but by the time I add shipping and FFL on my end, the savings get blown. Anyone know of a smokin' "too good to be true" price out there?

Q

Dobe
March 4, 2008, 01:41 AM
If you are a single action shooter, the 75B can be carried cocked and locked and has less distance to pull over double action mode. I am not sure if the SA mode is really of any different distance on the SA vs DA 75B with both in SA mode. The trigger is different on the SA model.

The AR-24 and the 75B are both good handguns. I own both, and enjoy shooting both. The AR-24 to me has better ergonomics, because of the in-sweep of the backstrap. The grips come with nice palm swells too, which feel natural to the grip.

The advantages of the AR-24 are as follows:
1. Both the slide and frame are forged. This is no big deal unless you like forged. I happen to be one of those people. Some will say that one is just as strong as the other. Perhaps that is true, or perhaps it is strong enough for its purpose. Nonetheless, CZ did go through the expense of using a forged slide, so they too must believe that their forgings are stronger than their castings.
2. The firing pin stop on the AR-24 is a 1911 type. This makes it easy for disassembly, and means that you can dry fire without worrying that you will break the firing pin retaining pin on the CZ 75B. I never did like that design, and it seems just a little cheap to me.
3. The firing pin safety actually releases tension of the spring when pulling the trigger, instead of compressing the spring as on the 75B. This suggest at least a potential for a better trigger pull.
4. There isn't the long camming pull of the trigger on the AR-24 that you find on the CZ 75B.

Disadvantages to the AR-24:
1. It is a little more expensive
2. It will not take the CZ mags. That is a big one.

The clone aspect means nothing to me, since my favorite platform (1911) has been cloned for decades. I shoot and like most of the 1911 clones I have owned. I have a Norinco that is a winner.

armoredman
March 4, 2008, 01:52 AM
Sarsilmaz, a Turkish maker, has a good reputation. Volitile country, but good guns. I prefer the original.:)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/comfortable.jpg

The Lone Haranguer
March 4, 2008, 01:58 AM
I too find the DA reach too long with the full-size, manual safety model. My PCR compact, with its decocker setup and some thin wood grips that I added, fits well. Have you been able to handle a full-size decocker (suffix D)?

Quoheleth
March 10, 2008, 01:36 PM
Thanks, all, for the helpful comments.

As a lefty, I appreciate the ambi safety. I know the CZ 85 is ambi safety, but is a DA/SA.

Is the CZ75B SA ambi-safety equipped?

Other than the 85, any other models ambi safety?

Q

u084708
March 10, 2008, 02:10 PM
I own several CZs, but not the CZ 75 SA. However, I believe it has ambi safeties. I can attest that the P-01 is an incredibly accurate and wonderful pistol.

Good luck in your hunt.

Kent

The Lone Haranguer
March 10, 2008, 10:18 PM
The B-SA version has an ambidextrous safety, of a different shape (much wider, almost like a paddle). I have also seen a stainless steel B (not SA) with an ambi safety.

1SOW
March 10, 2008, 11:32 PM
I have small hands & a short reach.

I tried the 75B and the reach was a little too long in DA, but after that first DA long pull, it was magic.
The single action pull is SIGNIFICANTLY shorter! The half-cock pull is also much shorter.

I put on aluminum grips and changed the trigger spring to ease the DA pull.

I have several thousand rounds through it at the range and shooting USPSA. It's a keeper.

dirtdog
March 10, 2008, 11:43 PM
Stainless Steel would be nice

Come on guys make them and folks will buy them

raytracer
March 11, 2008, 12:07 AM
The 75SA, 75 Champion, 75 Tactical Sport, 75 Stainless, 75 SP-01 all have ambi safeties.

Just got a Stainless and boy, is it sweet!

Joe

TMann
March 11, 2008, 12:30 AM
I, too, am a small-handed CZ shooter. I own a 75bd, the model that has the decocker rather than the safety. As has been stated earlier, the safety-only models can be carried cocked-and-locked, which decreases the trigger reach. However, they can also be carried at the half-cock position, which then gives you a heavy (ie. safe) DA trigger. The half-cock position on the 75s is a bit shorter than the hammer-fully-down position.

I hope that that made sense...

TMann

atblis
March 11, 2008, 01:32 PM
The 75SA, 75 Champion, 75 Tactical Sport, 75 Stainless, 75 SP-01 all have ambi safeties.
I believe the 75B in 40S&W, and the 85 do as well.

MaterDei
March 11, 2008, 01:47 PM
I prefer the original.

Me too. ;)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/Pistol_Browning_HP_american.jpg

armoredman
March 11, 2008, 01:50 PM
Actually, the HP had very little to do with the CZ, but that is a nice pistola.

Quoheleth
July 31, 2008, 09:30 PM
Bringing one back from the dead, but since a) I started the thread and b) it follows the same thought, I figured just add on.

Anyone know of a gunshop in the greater Houston area that carries CZ variations, particularly the 75B, 75SA and 85? For that matter, if they have the Sarilaz (sic) or the Armalite for comparison, that would be a bonus.

I called Carters (Pasadena) this afternoon. They will usually have a 75B in the case, almost always an Armalite, but they do not carry the 75SA.

I'm not quite in a buyers market, yet, but I want to hold & compare these three CZ models side-by-side.

Thanks,
Q

gilfo
July 31, 2008, 09:43 PM
Please correct me if I am wrong anybody, but I have heard that the CZ SP-01 with it's deeper backstrap allows for a shorter reach to trigger. I too have small hands and short reach. I am waiting to "try" a SP-01 to see if it is any better for me.

atblis
July 31, 2008, 10:28 PM
I couldn't say about shorter but the SP01 is most certainly different. Definitely try before you buy.

That being said, where are you? I am certain that if there are any members close to you with an SP01, they'd most likely be delighted to let you try it out.

Quoheleth
July 31, 2008, 10:42 PM
I'm in the Lake Houston area...NE side of Houston...

Q

SDDL-UP
July 31, 2008, 11:41 PM
MaterDei shows he really doesn't know anything about CZ's!:p

What can I say? We're trying to educate people here!

The SP-01 is a slightly different grip as mentioned, a slightly deeper backstrap and IMO a slight improvement on the original grip, which is nearly perfect - IMO. The SP-01 might just be the perfect grip shape.

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