Can I LEGALLY own a handgun


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Jamesmb
February 29, 2008, 11:42 PM
I am on social security disability for mental health ills and crohns disease. I live in TN. Just wondering if I can legally buy, posses and shoot a handgun? From the form for HCP for where I live I can not and have not tried to even obtain that.

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mindwip
March 1, 2008, 07:01 AM
Depends on the mental problem you have.

Jamesmb
March 1, 2008, 08:04 AM
I was under the impression as long as you were not a threat to yourself or others and never been court ordered to a mental facility then you could get a handgun.

OMGWTFBBQ
March 1, 2008, 08:25 AM
I was under the impression as long as you were not a threat to yourself or others and never been court ordered to a mental facility then you could get a handgun.
Yup. That's how I understand it, too. I mean they have to follow due process to take away your rights, for the most part.

Jamesmb
March 1, 2008, 08:49 AM
Thanks

Hokkmike
March 1, 2008, 09:14 AM
I am on social security disability for mental health ills

I'm not sure what your problems are but, with all due respect, your case deserves much scrutiny.

Jamesmb
March 1, 2008, 12:51 PM
I am on social security disability for mental health ills

I'm not sure what your problems are but, with all due respect, your case deserves much scrutiny.
I was diagnosed, long ago, with mild schizophrenia, anxiety, paranoia and depression. The last I disagree with. I dont remember the technical medical names for the last 3 disorders if there is. I have been attempting to work the past six months doing temp jobs with a service, but having a very hard time besides using them, finding companies that will hire me.

ciwsguy
March 1, 2008, 01:04 PM
My two bits worth - and you're not going to like my reply - I doubt you would qualify if you truthfully answered the questions on the ATF form.

Of course, there's nothing stopping you from buying outside of the ATF system - i.e., from another private owner in Tennessee.

stiletto raggio
March 1, 2008, 01:14 PM
Nothing to stop him except the laws which govern the transfer of firearms between individuals in his state.

I have a good friend whose father was "mildly schizophrenic" until he had a psychoactive episode several years ago. A little over a year ago, with no apparent impetus, he hanged himself in his house.

Of course, no knowing the specifics of James' situation and not being amental health professional, I can in no way make an assessment of his capacity to own a firearm responsibly. However, from my own anecdotal experience, I can say that this is not a decision to be made lightly.

Also, please keep in mind the laws against "straw purchasing." Having a buddy buy a gun and hen sell it immediately to you is a good way for you to both end up in jail, whether you would have passed the background check or not.

Jamesmb
March 1, 2008, 01:17 PM
My two bits worth - and you're not going to like my reply - I doubt you would qualify if you truthfully answered the questions on the ATF form.

Of course, there's nothing stopping you from buying outside of the ATF system - i.e., from another private owner in Tennessee.

This is on the 4473 "Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes having been adjudicated incompetent to manage your own
affairs) or have you ever been committed to a mental institution?" this is what you are referring to? I manage my own affairs though. Never been committed to a mental institutin.

Daps
March 1, 2008, 01:26 PM
I was diagnosed, long ago, with mild schizophrenia, anxiety, paranoia and depression.

Not sure if it'll show up on a check or not but I think the schizophrenia and paranoia will probably disqualify you more so now after the recent shootings.

Depression & anxiety is something I think everyone has gone through...
Go down to a gun shop and just have them run you. It'll cost $10 or $15
That should give you your answer right then and there..

Jamesmb
March 1, 2008, 01:40 PM
Go down to a gun shop and just have them run you. It'll cost $10 or $15
That should give you your answer right then and there..

But on the question think is letter f on the form "adjudicated mentally defective" would I truthfully put yes or no? Maybe what I am asking about is the word adjudicated?

Daps
March 1, 2008, 01:43 PM
I think you can truthfuly say you havent been adjudicated. I think that means by a judge or if you have been commited...

I'm no lawyer but I think you can you havent truthfuly at least right now, they may try and tighten that question up in the future

edited to add now if you've been commited by a judge & put in an institute then the answer would be yes

.cheese.
March 1, 2008, 02:05 PM
But on the question think is letter f on the form "adjudicated mentally defective" would I truthfully put yes or no? Maybe what I am asking about is the word adjudicated?

Only you would know the answer. Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective? This would have involved a judge.

I can tell you that your Crohn's has nothing to do with anything. Crohn's only affects your bowels, not your brain.

Oohrah
March 1, 2008, 02:12 PM
I agree with Cheeze! The medical problem you stated has nothing to do
with mental health issue. Perhaps the amount of pain control drugs might
create other issues including being able to drive safely

R127
March 1, 2008, 02:26 PM
Wow, what a fascinating subject. Self defense is the natural right of any living organism whatsoever and being diagnosed for all sorts of nasty sounding mental disorders in reality is often not as bad as it sounds on paper or on tv. In fact being diagnosed suggests a doctor's involved which suggests ongoing treatment which is a good thing because we certainly want mentally ill people to get better as much is possible and we don't want to create a system whereby people will shun seeking help for fear of losing rights.

On the other had the current anti-gun-nuts' bogieman is the so-called mentally ill, which is very very tricky to define in the first place. And we also can't possibly know the personal history of any random individual so what may be legal might not be recommended. Still in this and any other just society one is presumed innocent till proven guilty.

Honestly it sounds like the OP is most likely not technically disqualified at least on a federal level from the scant information provided since being judged mentally incompetent is a different thing than getting a diagnosis for a disorder from a doctor. I just hope for everybody's sake and especially his own that if he does get a gun through one way or another he acts responsibly and does no harm to himself or others. Is the so-called veteran's disarmament act law yet? That would be a place to start looking.

Jamesmb
March 1, 2008, 02:27 PM
I have the mental healths issues which I stated. In addition to that and at the time I applied for disability, in fact almost all my life, I have the PHYSICAL problem of Crohns disease, with all the pain and most of my guts removed surgically wearing an ostomy bag. That though would no bar me from having a handgun. I know this. As stated before, I have not been committed in my life nor have I ever been arrested for anything in my life hope that clarifies that. The reason I asked about adjudicated is when I went in front of an admistrative law judge to hear my case for social security disability. But maybe that is not what is is meant on the firearms form 4473. Thanks all for the answers. I just wanted to stay within the law but most opinions on here seem to say I would not pass, so I will not try to buy a handgun. Thanks, again.

kir_kenix
March 1, 2008, 03:15 PM
DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, social worker, judge, psycologist, doctor, or ATF agent...nor to I aspire to become one. My advise is worth what you paid for it.

Jamesmb: After reading thru all of the posts (mostly the last one), I would think that you would qualify to own a firearm. You have never been "adjudicated mentally defective " or deemed to be "incompetent to manage your own affairs."

If you honestly do not think you will be a danger to yourself, or others, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't have the same rights as the rest of us. In fact, since you had your "guts removed surgically" and are wearing an ostomy bag, you may have a need for a gun more than most of the people here. Criminals may see this as a sign of weakness, making you an "easier target" (this is not to say that you are not very capable of defending yourself, but in the eyes of a criminal this might make you appear weaker, and as such, easier prey).

I would say that you need to ask your chief law enforcement officer, lawyer, or someone else who could render a better decision then those of us on a gun board. I say go for it. The worst that can happen is that you will be told that you do not qualify...no harm no foul. If it is deemed that you can buy a firearm, you can enjoy the sport along with the rest of us...and potentionally save your life in the event of a violent attack.

I personally believe that everyone who is not a violent criminal or a danger to themselves/everyone around them should be able to bear arms. The constitution was written just as much for you and it was me. When those great americans wrote up the constitution, I doubt they intended the bill of rights to only blanket "most" americans.

Good luck jamesmb. Hope that you find the answers you are searching for. If you live in or around Nebraska I would be happy to take you shooting sometime if you get the green light to proceed with your purchase.

chris in va
March 1, 2008, 03:27 PM
Go down to a gun shop and just have them run you. It'll cost $10 or $15

Problem is, at least around here you have to actually be buying the gun before they'll do the NICS check.

Self defense is the natural right of any living organism

Absolutely, I agree 100%. But not necessarily with a firearm.

Ratzinger_p38
March 1, 2008, 03:36 PM
Sorry James, but your disability is specifically disallowed in TN's revised criminal code:


Is receiving social security disability benefits by reason of alcohol dependence, drug dependence or mental disability;

You often have to check state law as well as federal law. Some states have more strict provisions concerning mental health, or sometimes even with DUI violators.

Jamesmb
March 1, 2008, 03:40 PM
Sorry James, but your disability is specifically disallowed in TN's revised criminal code:

Is receiving social security disability benefits by reason of alcohol dependence, drug dependence or mental disability;

You often have to check state law as well as federal law. Some states have more strict provisions concerning mental health, or sometimes even with DUI violators.

I believe that only applies if you are trying to get a Handgun Carry Permit. Or am I wrong Ratziner?

http://tn.gov/safety/handgun/qualifications.htm
Quote:

stiletto raggio
March 1, 2008, 03:48 PM
The question is, why are you receiving Social Security payments? If it is for Crohn's, you still pas the criteria based on TN law. If it is for the psychological issues, you do not.

If SS disability is anyhting like the military's disability system, you are granted a ceratin "percent disabled" rating for each seaprate issue. If your payment is, let's say 80 percent based on Crohn's and 20 percent based on mental issues, it seems clear that you have been adjudicated mentally ill. If the payments are solely for Crohn's, you have not.

Jamesmb
March 1, 2008, 03:49 PM
Ok, I do not remember which percent of which for mine. I know both are included though.

conw
March 1, 2008, 04:03 PM
I think this is what I would do

Get a lawyer.
Ask the sheriff's dept if necessary (also depends on their attitude towards firearms).
Go try to do it.

I mean, I don't want you to have a firearm if you are going to use it for ill. But if you want it for self-defense there is no law preventing you from buying it and you can do it, go for it. You seem to be a reasonable person.

I am somewhat against the "mentally ill" adjudication law anyway because it isn't as though you couldn't do harm some other way if you were so inclined. The firearm restriction, in non-violent "mentally ill" people, looks like the beginning of something worse to me.

So...if it's legal and you deem yourself fit to possess a self-defense weapon, you have a right to do so.

By the way, a good text on the ins and outs of self-defense is "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob.

Jamesmb
March 1, 2008, 04:06 PM
Also Ratzinger does this TN law apply to all guns, even shotguns?

Pat-inCO
March 1, 2008, 04:17 PM
Talk with a lawyer. They will be able to make an accurate decision based on ALL facts in your case and not on speculation by non lawyers.

jgo296
March 1, 2008, 04:23 PM
james i work at a mental health hospital
but ive never looked into patient gun rights
schizophrenia is a serious mental health issue if you come of of your meds you will have serious judgement issues and 15 pecent of patients have relapses even with compliance to meds
there are ways to get guns
a better question is do you fully trust yourself to have a gun?
you said you werent committed so that means previously youve had issues with your mental health and sought treatment
and you were then diagnosed
oh and james a depression disorder doesnt necessarily mean sadness

NASCAR_MAN
March 2, 2008, 01:24 AM
Jamesmb,

I see nothing in your background that legally disqualifies you of Gun Ownership. In that case...buy the gun and say nothing - to anyone, if you feel so nervous.

NASCAR

Jamesmb
March 2, 2008, 01:47 AM
I see nothing in your background that legally disqualifies you of Gun Ownership

I would almost agree with you Nascar Man but as Ratziner pointed out in response # 20 that TN State Law would. I had thought that only applied to HCP but it says, before you apply for that Qualifications That Must Be Met Before Applying for a Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit "Shall not be receiving social security disability benefits by reason of alcohol dependence, drug dependence or mental disability"

sig2022shooter
March 2, 2008, 02:41 AM
please, before you decide on buying a gun ask yourself, and answer honestly, if you feel 100% confident that you can trust yourself with a gun, to not use it irresponsibly, and to use it to harm yourself or others, with exception to a self defense situation. this is a question that only you can answer and the responsibility to make a mature, thoughtful, honest answer to avoid any future incidents falls directly on you. you must be self responsible to decide if you are OK with a firearm, any issues of legality should come only after you have made an honest answer to yourself.

good luck, and i hope you make the right decision.

Jamesmb
March 2, 2008, 03:26 AM
Oh I am pretty convinced now not to buy a handgun.

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