I need a new CCW, help please


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money69
March 1, 2008, 07:09 PM
Its been quite some time since I posted here. Im looking for a new CCW piece. Im really leaning towards the P-11 or PF-9 at this point. I had a PM9 but I really dont want to spend that much again on a gun although it was a very nice reliable gun. I need the following:

1. Not a Glock 26 or 27, I had these and they are a little to blocky for me.

2. Ill primarily be carrying in a Smartcarry.

3. 9mm or greater.

4. Something in Size range of the PM9, PF-9 or P-11.

5. Semi-Auto

6. Hows the Bersa 9mm compare in size? etc?


Theres also a million threads on here about the P-11 and the overall reliability of them. Id like to know if there's a serial number range I should look for a good one. I like the P-11 a little over the PF-9 because its got a bigger capacity.

Any input would be appreciated.

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Doug S
March 1, 2008, 07:27 PM
I understand your plight, but in my experience it's difficult to impossible to find a good, reliable semi-auto, when you go below the Glock. I've tried the Kel-tec P11, the Taurus PT 111, a couple of Bersa pistols. All were unreliable. The Kel-Tec and Taurus moreso, than the Bersa, but none were even close to 100%. Also, I didn't find the P11 to be much different than the Glock in any meaningful way in regard to concealment. If not for the round count, you might want to consider something like the S&W 642.

I'm not trying to discourage you, just sharing some of my experiences. Do with it what you will.

NGIB
March 1, 2008, 07:53 PM
You basically described the Kahr PM9. Great guns but a tad pricey to be sure. My main carry is a Kahr PM40 which is a handful to shoot. They also make an all steel version, same size but heavier the MK9...


http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj183/dave_dgf/IMG_PM40-S.jpg

snow92686
March 1, 2008, 08:22 PM
I have all the guns you mentioned and the one I carry most is my pf-9 in a nemesis pocket holster. With me whenever I leave the house. Carry the glock 27 in winter (florida so not often) and the pm9 whenever Im wearing something that wont permit the half inch larger pf-9. The best thing about the pf-9 is its 12 oz and you hardly remember its there.
Personally I think the p-11 feels as blocky as the glock.

money69
March 1, 2008, 08:22 PM
i had a PM9, never had a single problem out of it until it was stolen this past week and which is why I need a new gun. I was looking at the XD9. I really like the capacity and the price is good I think. Anyone know how thick it is?

DerbyDale
March 1, 2008, 08:36 PM
I just purchased an XD-9sc with the stainless slide. I was going to get a PF-9 but was concerned about its reliability and sturdiness to handle frequent range trips. At the gun shop I compared the XD-9sc and the PF-9 side by side. The PF-9 was definitively slimmer, but it wasn't THAT much smaller to out weigh the ruggedness, dependability and capacity advantages of the XD.

Here is a link to a thread at KTOG (http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1202362634) with photos comparing the sizes...

Whirlwind06
March 1, 2008, 08:42 PM
M&P compact, XD Subcompact and the Glock 26, 27 or all about the same width. Little over an inch.
Glock weighs about 19 Oz
M&P 21 Oz
XD sub about 26 Oz

Craig_VA
March 1, 2008, 11:52 PM
I don't fault your choice of requirements, because we each have our own preferences. However, i am curious about your reasons for specifying semi only, and no revolver?

tinygnat219
March 1, 2008, 11:58 PM
That kind of limits your choices to something from Taurus, or Kel-Tec. Of the two, I'd get a Kel-Tec.

MarshallDodge
March 2, 2008, 12:46 AM
Why not a CW9?

lvcat2004
March 2, 2008, 02:11 AM
i had a PM9, never had a single problem out of it until it was stolen this past week and which is why I need a new gun. I was looking at the XD9. I really like the capacity and the price is good I think. Anyone know how thick it is?
I was deciding betweetn XD9 subcompact and Glock 26 and I believe that they are about the same size/thickness. I'm not sure what you mean by Glock being too "blocky"...too big/squre? Then I'd say you might not like XD9 subcompact either, but try it out, I like mine.
Others in similar size that come to mind are Springfield EMP and CZ Rami, both of which I've heard excellent reviews, although EMP is quite expensive, and many people probably don't want spend that much unless they are nuts about 1911's...
http://www.lesjones.com/www/images/posts/EMPvsMicroL.jpg
http://www.czub.cz/img/CZ_2075_RAMI.jpg

MarshallDodge
March 2, 2008, 02:27 AM
Others in similar size that come to mind are Springfield EMP and CZ Rami, both of which I've heard excellent reviews, although EMP is quite expensive, and many people probably don't want spend that much unless they are nuts about 1911's...

Are you calling my wife nuts? ;) :D

She really does like 1911's but there was one more reason for the purchase- since I carry a 1911 there would be no learning curve in case either one of us had to pick up the other's gun and use it. We did not pay full price for hers either, we bought it from the original owner in unfired condition for much less than new.

I did not recommend the EMP because I thought it might be out of his price range.

The XD9 subcompact is a nice gun but you may not like the size if you are familiar with the Kahr.

money69
March 2, 2008, 04:44 AM
Well, you're right I am spoiled by the PM9 I had. But, I like the idea of having a little more capacity. I was looking at the CW9, I like the idea of that, the PM9 never once had a problem. Only thing is its back to a 7+1 setup. The CZ 2075 seems like an interesting suggestion. I like the weight I saw in the specs and the capacity is good. Im not familiar with this brand.

lvcat2004
March 2, 2008, 07:58 AM
[quote] The CZ 2075 seems like an interesting suggestion. I like the weight I saw in the specs and the capacity is good. Im not familiar with this brand.[\quote]

WHAT?? are you kidding me? :eek: I don't think Rami is well known but you must've heard of CZ-75. Produced by Ceska Zbrojovka in the Czech republic, they claim more governments, militaries, police around the globe use them as their service pistol.

CZ75 is arguably one of the BEST 9mm's pistols ever made...and it's cheap, readily available. I think anyone who loves 9mm needs to have one ;)

Rami is a subcompact version of it, and comes with (I believe) 10+1 or 14+1 mags. Retails around $500??
11/07 Gun Tests mag compared HK P7, CZ Rami, and Kel-Tec PF9 and rated them A, B+, and F respectively. Only reason for B+ was lack of a decocker, "but consider this an "A" gun if that's not important to you".

Definitely worth looking into, but this isn't going to be PF9 small, which by the way got F for malfunction.

I used to carry an XD-9 subcompact, but I found myself rarely carrying it because it's not so "compact" for my situation. Sure, plenty of firepower, but it was no good sitting in my safe at home. So recently I got myself a Keltec P3AT (tough decision b/w P32) in 380 ACP. Yeah, you hear about the whole caliber argument, but any gun is better than no gun, and to be quite honest, P3AT with the clip is so small carrying is effortless, and 380 is big enough caliber IMHO for most situations. For people like me who can't/doesn't want to carry a bulky gun, and don't believe in getting into a 5+ round firefight, I take my chances with a smaller caliber with a gun that I acuatually would have in my possession when it's needed so that's another thought you might want to explore. XD-9 with IWB holster was too much for me (call me a wuss) ;)

Whirlwind06
March 2, 2008, 08:04 AM
If you are thinking about the Rami get the 9mm not the .40. Lot of problems with the .40 still.

money69
March 2, 2008, 03:43 PM
Anyone have any comments on the Bersa UC 9mm? I liked the 380 I had from Bersa and never had a problem with that either. How does that CZ 2075 compare in size to say a Glock 26,27? Im also considering the Kahr CW9.

lvcat2004
March 2, 2008, 04:09 PM
CZ Rami and Glock 26....let's see:

RAMI Glock
(inches)
Length 6.5 6.3
Barrel 3.0 3.4
sight Rad. 5 5.4
Height 5.2 4.1
Front Strap 2.6 1.4
Back Starp 4.1 2.4
Wt. unloaded 24.6oz 20oz

Not that much different in size, but I've never compared them side by side. When I looked at Rami at a gun show, it looked pretty smll, but that's compared to my CZ75B...

Guntests did do a comparo of G26, Sig P239DAK, and S&W M&P9, and scores were B, A-, and D respectively.

money69
March 2, 2008, 04:25 PM
The more and more I look at size it looks like I may be pushed back to a single stack setup for the weight I want to carry loaded. Anyone know what the lightest double stack 9mm thats subcompact on the market is?

Whirlwind06
March 2, 2008, 04:29 PM
AFAIK, that would be the Kel-Tec P11. 14 Oz empty. About 20 Oz loaded.

twolf811
March 4, 2008, 02:21 AM
Check out the Beretta Website for the long awaited and still being waited for PX4 STORM SUB-COMPACT in 9 or 40. Lastest guess in now Mid-March release. Who Knows?

http://www.berettausa.com/product/spotlight/5_of%20spotlight_pistol_subcompact.cfm

another okie
March 4, 2008, 02:38 AM
I guess from what you say you don't like the low capacity of a five shot j-frame, but it works for me. I've added crimson trace grips.

Ruger is coming out with a 9 or 10 ounce .380. It kind of looks like the Kel-tec P3AT, but perhaps Ruger has instilled some of that Ruger reliability.

chupacabrah
March 4, 2008, 03:02 AM
Here's a thread about the LCP from Ruger, it does look interesting: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=344378


Bersa makes some pretty neat small guns. I think I may pick one of those up (versus an XD9sc or CZ Rami or M&P9c)

I like my m&p full size, but dont know how well I would be able to conceal it...i may try in the meantime until i get something smaller.

Cowboybootnut
March 4, 2008, 03:15 AM
I bought a Bersa Thunder 9 UC as my CCW, I love it. 13+1 rds of 9mm. It feels pretty good in my hands (although I would love a Pachmyer type grips). It is reliable and accurate with anything that I have feed it.

skers69
March 4, 2008, 04:33 AM
That RAMI is a nice looking piece. Take a look at the CZ PCR as well. CZ makes a fine pistol. Glock is another option that may work.

PX15
March 4, 2008, 06:15 PM
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_8731_01.jpg

PPS, (or P7) works for me....:D

I "had" a P11. Never failed me in any way, but terrible trigger, inaccurate at any distance (for me) beyond 7 yards. I kept waiting for it to fall apart but it never did.

My personal opinion on a firearm used for cc and self defense is to spend how ever much it takes to get a quality firearm that is 100% reliable (or as close to it as humanly possible), and you have complete confidence in.

Save longer, if necessary.. Buy BETTER..

JP

foxmoor
March 4, 2008, 08:09 PM
I don't know anything about the new Walther PPS (single stack - 9mm), but I've read some good reviews of the pistol. Here's a photo/description from the Walther website:

http://www.waltheramerica.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=13152&storeId=10002&productId=60492&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=44304&isFirearm=Y

outerlimit
March 4, 2008, 08:43 PM
That PPS always reminds me of a Hi-Point. :)

modifiedbrowning
March 4, 2008, 11:07 PM
Anyone have any comments on the Bersa UC 9mm?
The Bersa T9 UC is a great little pistol. I have two UCs and one fullsize. All three have performed 100% with at least 1k rnds through each. I shot 1K through my fullsize with no cleaning and had no problems. The Bersa is going to be thicker than your other choices as it is a doublestack and has ambi safety/decockers.
Stats can be found at www.bersafirearmsusa.com
Also check out www.bersatalk.com for more info.

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