Wow, so much fun!


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Zeede
March 2, 2008, 06:08 AM
Picked up my first pistol, a Beretta U22 Neos, and took it to the range tonight. Man, I did a lot of things wrong, but it was fun, and my buddy met me at the range and brought his Colt 1911. What a different world that was!

I've since read some articles about proper technique, so I should be better prepared next time out! However, shooting my friend's 1911, and reading about the different pistol shooting games has gotten me thinking about my first centerfire pistol. I know I've posted a few threads here and there asking about different ones, but now I've had some real shooting under my belt (I don't count shooting a little of my friend's .357 mag revolver), and a pistol of my own to practice with, I have a better idea of what I want.

1) I do mostly shotgunning these days, Trap mostly, but a little of Skeet and Sporting Clays. As a result, I don't want to buy a 9mm and then a .40 S&W, then a .45 ACP. My budget allows one centerfire purchase. And that's going to be .45 ACP. Some of the three-gun require a .22 LR (U22 Neos), a centerfire, and then .45 ACP. Might as well kill several birds with one stone (if I go the reload route, I like the lower pressure of .45 ACP).

2) I'm not interested in doing a lot of aftermarket work, and as a result, would like to keep discussions to out-of-the-box. A little trigger work is not out of the question, but let's keep things stock.

3) My budget is $900. That should allow me access to most of the Sig, H&K, and Colts. I'd prefer something closer to $500 or $600, but I would consider paying a bit more.

4) I've held a Springfield Armory XD-45, Smith & Wesson M&P, and Glock 21 Slim Line (I think that's what it was). I've only fired my friend's Colt 1911. Out of all of those, the 1911 felt best in my hands, followed, surprisingly, by the Glock. I really hated the M&P's grip, and the XD-45 felt chunky. Oddly though, while the 1911 felt the best in the hand, the recoil was surprisingly high. I kept the shots on target, and the gun didn't slip, but it was harsher on my hand than I expected. I almost wonder if a slightly thicker grip would help me keep a better grip on the gun.

5) Recoil. I know from shotgunning that gun fit is a huge determining factor for felt recoil, and I surmise it is the same with pistols, but are there any that are generally held as having less recoil? I thought weight would be a big factor, but obviously it's not the only one.

6) Accuracy. Last in my list, but definitely not the least important. I love my CZ 452 FS to death because it is so accurate right out of the box.

So, my ideal .45 ACP pistol would cost about $600 or so, have soft recoil, be similar to a 1911 grip (but maybe a bit thicker) and be accurate out-of-the-box.

Thanks!

Cameron

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NGIB
March 2, 2008, 06:31 AM
I have a S&W 99 in .45 and it's one of the "softest" shooting guns I own, very accurate as well. You'd have to go used as they don't make these anymore, basically the same gun as a Walther P99 - except in .45.

While I don't own one, an EAA Witness Match sounds like the ticket for you. They also have conversion kits to change calibers should you want to do that. I have 2 basic Witness pistols, both in .40, and they are very sweet shooters one steel and the other poly, both full size...

HM2PAC
March 2, 2008, 07:00 AM
You may want to look at the HK USP. It is based on the 1911 design therefore grip angle and controls will be similar. Not a perfect match, but close.

The HK USP is a full size pistol. It is lighter than the 1911. A loaded USP with 12 rds is still lighter than an unloaded 1911. IMHO it is just as soft with the recoil in .45ACP.

If you think you may want a suppressor in the future, spend the extra cash now on the Tactical version. It has a threaded barrel and target adjustable sights.

One of the great things about the USP is it's resiliency. I wear mine when I duck hunt in salt water. I clean it at the end of the day/hunt. No corrosion for a few years now. A friend of mine works with his daily in the salt water, no corrosion.

Since you stipulate that you want this thing to be GTG out of the box, then anything by HK, Sig, Glock, S&W, or a good quality 1911 such as SA, Kimber, Para Ordnance, Colt, S&W, Fusion, Les Baer, Ed Brown, NightHawk, ......

1911 guy
March 2, 2008, 09:01 AM
If you try it some more and don't like it, fine. But next time you have an opportunity to shoot it, try this:

While holding the pistol in your right hand, place your right thumb on top of the safety and leave it there while shooting. Place your left palm into the empty space on the grip left by your right hand. Now rotate your left hand foreward, at the wrist, until your thumb points toward the target.

This puts the pistol fairly low in your hand and wraps a lot of meat around the gun. Combined with good shooting form, it virtually eliminates percieved recoil.

For handgun choices, I'd look hard at Springfield for a 1911. They've got some that will be serviceable and fall into your budget.

wally
March 2, 2008, 09:48 AM
In a non-1911 the EAA Witness Elite Match has about the best out of the box trigger you will find. I find it to be very soft shooting for a .45, Gets my vote for the best overall sub-$500 gun on the market now. If you liked the 1911 I'd suggest the RIA Tactical Springrield "Loaded" features at "GI" model price.

Glocks are great if they fit and you can hit with them. I'm not fond of the Glock trigger and only with the 3.5lb connector in can I come close to shooting it as well as any of my other guns. I question if the 3.5lb connector is safe for carry.

Unless you tried all three grip back straps in the M&P you've overlooked one of its strengths. You need to shoot it and the XD to compare to the Glock, I'd take either well ahead of Glock.

I've a USP 45 and think they are about the most over rated handgun around and HK gouges on the price of the mags.

--wally.

Zeede
March 4, 2008, 03:23 AM
EA Witnesses are clones of CZ 97Bs, right?

Edit: I just looked them up more carefully, and while they might be a good purchase, they haven't been DOJ approved in California. In other words, they haven't been drop tested for safety. I ran into the same problem w/ Taurus.

Cameron

NGIB
March 4, 2008, 03:34 AM
I guess you could say clone, they are essentially made by Tanfoglio in Italy. The Baby Desert Eagles are the same as IWI (IMI) buys parts from Tanfoglio and then assembles and finishes the guns in Israel. Basically they are the slide in frame design which gives them accuracy and strength. Here's a picture of my full-size steel Witness in .40, vary accurate and easy to shoot because of the weight. Second picture is a Baby Eagle in .45 - you can see how similar they are...


http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj183/dave_dgf/IMG_WIT.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj183/dave_dgf/IMG_BDE.jpg

Walkalong
March 4, 2008, 04:27 AM
So, my ideal .45 ACP pistol would cost about $600 or so, have soft recoil, be similar to a 1911 grip (but maybe a bit thicker) and be accurate out-of-the-box.
Check out the Elite Witness Match. I know someone has already suggested it, but I strongly second that opinion.

Zeede
March 4, 2008, 04:41 AM
EAA and Taurus are not an option for me in California. They haven't been drop-tested by the DOJ.

Cameron

The Lone Haranguer
March 4, 2008, 05:09 AM
How about the CZ97B? Its grip is fatter than the 1911s and the reach to the DA trigger is long, but it can be operated "cocked and locked" as well. With its weight and low bore axis it should be a soft shooter.
CZ97B (http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=43)

Another suggestion: S&W M&P 45.

Zeede
March 4, 2008, 05:41 AM
The CZ 97B is actually my first choice, as my first gun was one of their rifles in .22LR, and it has been phenomenal. The problem is finding one to check for fit.

I tried a S&W M&P and didn't like the grip at all, but wasn't aware that the grips were interchangeable. Does it come with different grips, and I can ask the dealer to change them, or do you have to order the different ones?

Cameron

chupacabrah
March 4, 2008, 06:06 AM
I tried a S&W M&P and didn't like the grip at all, but wasn't aware that the grips were interchangeable. Does it come with different grips, and I can ask the dealer to change them, or do you have to order the different ones?


there are 3 sets of grips that come in the case: small, medium, or large. the dealer could probably swap them out for you.

I have the 9mm, and the medium sized grips fit perfectly for me, i love the feel of it. Felt awkward for me shooting a glock 17 in comparison. I do like the way the XD's feel also, havent shot one yet, though

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