pistols on planes

[rogdigity]

ive been hearing a lot of different things about being able to take pistols with you on planes . i am going on a trip and would like to bring one of mine with me. i dont want to bring any ammo with me because i can just get it there and i really just want to do some shooting while im there and show off my pistol to my friends.

so can you have a pistol in your bag as long as you tell them about it when you check your bag?

the airline rules pages are all very vauge and sound like 'if we [I]FEEL like letting you bring it on board...


oh so stuck!

[rogdigity]

oh, and if they charge extra for it or something dumb like that does anyone know how much?

[CountGlockula]

Having a firearm as a carry on is not allowed on planes.

You must read thier rules, inform TSA/Airline and keep the firearm in luggage.

[Run&Shoot]

Here is my "best known methods" for flying with a pistol on commercial, domestic airlines:

- Get a good TSA lock for the luggage bag, not the one that comes with the luggage

- Get a pistol case. Mine is a cheap Doskol one. A pelican is nicer but takes up more space.

- Get the best one or two keyed or combination locks that you can put on the pistol case.

- Field strip your pistol and put in case. This makes it easy for TSA to see in the xray that it is unloaded. If it is a revolver, then remove the cylinder. You can put the magazines in the case with the pistol.

- Lock the pistol case and put near the top of your clothes so it easy to get to. Lock the TSa lock on the outer luggage zipper.

- When you check your bags tell the agent you have a "unloaded firearm in a locked case" in one of your bags to check.

- Ticketing agent will give you a card to sign (testifying that your firearm is unloaded). Under no circumstance should the ticket agent open the case or handle the pistol. Ask for them to get a TSA agent to help if they persist. Place the card on top of the still locked case. Zip up your luggage and secure the TSa lock.

- At a small airport your luggage will be sent to the back and you will be asked to wait about 15 minutes while they xray/inspect. Atr larger airports you will take you luggage ot an xray station. Tell the TSA agent which bag of yours has an "unloaded firearm in a locked case." They should ask you to wait at the other end of the xray station.

- If you packed your pistol correctly they should be able to determine it is unloaded in the xray and just tell you all is OK. If TSA has any doubts, they will pull it to the side, unzip the luggage and ask you to open the case. They will look at it with minimal handling to determine if it is loaded or not. Once they are happy they will ask you to lock the case and luggage and then you can be on your way. One group of TSA agents really liked my S&W 642, "My wife has one just like that, Real nice handgun!". They never comment on my boring G23.

- When you get off the plane don;t waste time getting to baggage carousel. Get you luggage back into your possession ASAP.

- If some time later you decide to take ammo, then be sure to place it in the luggage such that it will not end up above or below your pistol case. That will be ambiguous under the xray. I place it to the side. Since both the case and ammo can be heavy, they will migrate to the bottom of the luggage after you tilt it on its rollers and frag it around the airport. So start by placing the case at the foot of the bag and the ammo to the side of it so they don;t get jubled up later.

[rogdigity]

pretty clear, thanks

but whats a TSA?

[telomerase]

but whats a TSA?

A waste of billions of dollars and a horrible decrease in national security. We never should have bought one.

[rogdigity]

hmhm nice answer. still unclear though

[ABCDE]

TSA = Transportation Security Administration
http://www.tsa.gov/index.shtm

[ArchAngelCD]

rogdigity,
Like said above, you can't have a gun in carry on bags but it can be in your checked luggage. (but you have to follow some very strict guidelines) There is another problem to consider, will it be legal for you to have a handgun at your destination? That's the biggest problem. If it is you might want to go a slightly different route than checking your handgun because the rules and the hoops they make you jump through are vast... I know several people who fly a lot and they usually FedEx their guns to them self at their destination. They overnight the package and it arrives at their destination later in the day in which they arrive. It works very well and without all the problems of doing it the "right" way!

[Quiet]

TSA rules regarding firearms and ammunition.

1. You must declare all firearms to the airline during the ticket counter check-in process.
2. The firearm must be unloaded.
3. The firearm must be in a hard-sided container.
4. The container must be locked.
We recommend that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain present during screening to take the key back after the container is cleared. If you are not present and the security officer must open the container, we or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact you. If we can't contact you, the container will not be placed on the plane. Federal regulations prohibit unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) on aircraft.
5. You must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
6. You can't use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).
7. You may carry the ammunition in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as you pack it as described above.
8. You can't bring black powder or percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms in either your carry-on or checked baggage.

www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm

[Quiet]

In addition to TSA rules, you have to comply with the airlines policy regarding firearms and ammunition.

When you book your flight, ask them what their policy is on firearms.

When you check your baggage, you have to notify them you have a firearm.

[xMetal]

All I have to saw is, laws or not, vagueness or not, I'd like to see you try to carry your gun onto a plane in your carry on luggage. Good luck with that. See you in a few years. :)

You can take it with you, but in checked baggage only, in a locked case, and it must be declared. I don't think they'll be very tolerant of you "forgetting" about it or failing to mention it. Just recently a local government official (congressman I think) here in Ohio got arrested, charged, fined and almost got jail time because he "forgot" his pistol was in his briefcase while rushing to catch a flight.

[retgarr]

When I travel by aircraft with firearms, I put them in a locked case (don't use TSA locks because they are weak and TSA asks you to open the case anyways) I always make sure to remove a component from each firearm and place that component in a seperate checked bag. Such as cylinder for revolver, barrel for pistol, bolt for rifle.

Also, trusting the TSA to know how to do their job is like trusting Carolyn McCarthy to understand the legislation she is pushing. Going through St. Louis I had given my case to the TSA and after they finished X-raying it they asked for the keys so they could open it and check the firearms. They asked me to open (open the bolt) on my rifle to show them that it was unloaded because they couldn't figure out how that particular rifle worked. I pointed out that you could see it was unloaded because the bolt wasn't even in the rifle...

[Run&Shoot]

One other thing I forgot to mention is to avoid using the larger airports if possible. ABSOLUTELY NEVER FLY WITH FIREARMS THROUGH O'HARE IN CHICAGO!

Baggage handlers are much more apt to steal firearms and baggage in general at the major cities and hubs. I have not had a problem going through smaller ones like Portland, Sacramento, Ontario, Cincinnati, Burlington, VT, Salt Lake, Las Vegas, etc.

I would avoid Chicago, New York, DC, Denver, Atlanta, LAX, etc. if at all possible. If I absolutely had to pass through one of them I would switch from my G23 to a Makarov or something less valuable.

Bottom line is if you plan for it and execute it well, then flying with checked firearms is not much of a problem. But you have to accept that once in a while some ticket or security person is going to give you a bit of a hassle, or it may even get stolen. I would rather deal with these things and be armed as much as possible in other locales, then to go "naked" just to avoid a bit of hassle and expense.

[CWL]

Follow the instructions given by the Airline on their website for check-in notification. Also print-out a copy of the instructions to keep inside the locked gun container so you can show the check-in person if they are not familiar with their own rules.

Also print-out the TSA airport regulations and keep them along with the gun(s).

Follow all the rules & regulations to the letter, it isn't difficult. Do not argue with any flight service or TSA people, just show them the procedures if they are not familiar. Be prepared to ask for a Supervisor if you are not getting correct help.

Beyond this, do not follow any other instructions given on this forum. There are a few errors in some of the posted advice.

I am a regular airlines traveller and oftentimes check-in firearms. I have been lucky and have never had any problems or hassles.

[rogdigity]

thanks guys.

xmetal - that was a dumb answer. i think i pointed out well enough that i wasnt planning on taking it ON the plane with me, but rather in my checked baggage.

[inkhead]

If you are going to check a firearm, ALWAYS let the counter agent know. Always call ahead to your airline to double check.

It's nicer to have checked luggage with a firearm, because it gets special handling which means TSA agents can't rifle through it like normal luggage and steal your stuff. Not to mention your bags are handled careful, so you never get missing or late luggage.

[ArchAngelCD]

I see all the posts after my post have proved the best way to travel with a handgun is to send it overnight courier like I said instead of trusting the airlines to transport it.

[rogdigity]

ya, sounds like it

[Ed Ames]

Ummm... it's really no big deal. I don't know why everyone gets so freaked out about it.

Unload the gun. Put the gun in a hard-sided gun case. Lock the case with a standard lock. You don't want or need a "TSA" lock. Put the case in your suitcase. Take the suitcase to the airport. Go to the airline counter, and say "there is an unloaded firearm in this bag" while pointing to the bag that has the gun case. Follow the instructions from there.

Usually/sometimes the ticket counter person will make you sign a "declaration" card that goes into the gun case. That's just backup for the verbal declaration you already made. In that case the card goes inside your suitcase.
From that point I've experienced the following:
* They just put the suitcase containing the gun on the conveyor behind the ticket counter and said "go wait over there... when you see your bag watch which direction it goes... if it just goes up the ramp you are done and go enjoy your flight. If the TSA screeners take it off the ramp go over and help them with the lock if they ask."
* They handed me the suitcase and said "take this to the TSA screening area and give it to them." Once it was at the screening area the screeners ran it through the x-ray machine, told me the bag was clear, and I was done.

The only difference between checking a bag with a gun and checking a bag is that you sit around waiting until the TSA folks have finished their screening. Once they tell you you are clear the rest of the flight is perfectly normal.

At the destination you go to wherever the bags are unloaded (usually a big machine with a belt that moves... the bags are placed on the belt and they move past all the passengers allowing you a chance to grab your particular bag(s) when they are unloaded... it's really neat in a 1960s technology sort of way) and wait for your bags. When your bags come out you pick them up using your hands and carry them out of the airport. This is exactly the same procedure you'd use with any checked bag.

Again, no fuss or bother. I've flown with handguns quite a few times now. Sometimes with ammo, sometimes without. I've never had a bit of trouble and I really don't see why everyone makes a big deal about it. Out of all the flights they have opened my gun case exactly once. I strongly suspect that the reason they opened the case was not that I had a gun but that I had a computer peripheral in the same suitcase. They spent about 10 seconds on the gun (actually about a minute but 50 seconds of that was trying to re-close the pistol case) and went over the computer peripheral for two minutes with bomb swabs on every side and more than a few suspicious looks.

Most of those flights were into and out of major airports, half of which were in CA.

[Hammer-52]

Another suggestion is to curbside check your bags & let the person at the curb know you have the firearm in your checked baggage. A buddy of mine regularly flies with his pistol and does curbside checkin. They rush him & his bags to the front of the line inside and he's never had a problem.

Good luck

[esq_stu]

TSA unfortunately does things differently in different airports.

As a result of this, I now use TSA approved locks on BOTH the suitcase and the hard gun case in sider the suitcase.

I had a recent incident with TSA at San Jose, CA where I used a combination lock hard gun case. I stated that the TSA rules don't allow me to give away the key or combination. The TSA supervisor refused to look at my copy of the rules, which I carry in case of such ignorance by the TSA.

I offered to unlock the case for the TSA supervisor. She refused to allow me to check the gun unless I gave her the combination and raised her voice in a threatening way.

Rather than argue (TSA rules allow TSA to refuse carriage if you argue), I use a TSA lock for both and I have had no further hassles.

49 CFR § 1540.109 Prohibition against interference with screening personnel.
No person may interfere with, assault, threaten, or intimidate screening personnel in the performance of their screening duties under this subchapter.

This has been interpreted to mean "have included verbal abuse of screeners by passengers," and is subject to federal criminal or civil penalties and possible state or local law enforcement as well.

[Ed Ames]

Ummm... esq_stu... how does giving the combination equate to needing TSA locks? You have made an illogical leap.

I use key locks intead of combination locks. If the TSA wants me to open the case I will. If they want to open the case I hand the person the key. I really don't care. They hand the key back when finished. The key never leaves my sight and I retain control of the case once it is re-locked.

With a combination you give the TSA person the combination and they "give it back" afterwards by forgetting it... if they forget it. Not as secure so I don't like it but no big problem unless the TSA screeners pass notes around which I kinda doubt.

With a TSA lock anyone can open the case without any problem at all. You have the illusion of security only. It doesn't meet your legal obligation either. Legally you exclusively are supposed to retain the key/combination during the flight... TSA locks have master keys that are readily available to everyone so you can't in good faith say that you are retaining the key.

[Steve C]

From the TSA http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/wie/atac/publications/TSA%20Transp%20Firearms%20on%20plane.pdf

Your carriers procedures may be slightly different so contact the airline you are flying on for instructions.

[rogdigity]

hey! thats the best ive seen yet!! thanks steve



can we close this one and be done with it now? i dont want everyone arguing with each other about it or restating the obvious

[obiwan1]

Esq Stu :

I would have escalated it to the supervisor's supervisor. Once in Raleigh I almost needed to do that. I also had a copy of the law with me. They eventually complied. No way would I use TSA locks!

[islandphish]

I use TSA locks. I've flown several times with handguns solo and handguns + ammunition. I've never had a problem checking my firearms.

Now getting through terminal security without being patted down...that's several other stories...all of which end with me getting on the plane no problem.

[esq_stu]

Ummm... esq_stu... how does giving the combination equate to needing TSA locks? You have made an illogical leap.

I use key locks intead of combination locks. If the TSA wants me to open the case I will. If they want to open the case I hand the person the key. I really don't care. They hand the key back when finished. The key never leaves my sight and I retain control of the case once it is re-locked.That only works if they LET you open it. They refused and demanded the combination. It would be the same if they demanded the key. The rule requires you to retain the key or combination. It does not say you can give either to anyone.

It is just plain easier to let them open it with their own key.

[Jim101]

Six of us (3 couples)flew from Dallas to Daytona Beach, Fla. The three of us took our KT's. I bought this:
http://www.center-of-mass.com/
Which still comes in handy if I have to lock the gun in my car for whatever reason. Besides the KT I stored ammo in the case, no problems either way, I didn't take the KT apart, just dropped it in the case and emptied the mag., the ammo was stored in one of those small plastic continers made for ammo..

Jim

[Ed Ames]

On the taking apart thing...

The one time I've flown with a gun broken down (slide off the frame) was also the one time they opened the case. It took them a few seconds (out of the ten or so they were actually looking) to figure out what they were looking at. I decided, based on that statistically insignificant sampling of one, that in the future I'll just leave the gun assembled.

This is a case where you want things clear and easily understood... most TSA screeners are going to have an easier time understanding "pistol" than "bunch of metal parts..."