Someone tell me about Federal HST ammo


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dbshabo
March 4, 2008, 01:42 PM
Hi there, how y'all doin'? I've got me a brand spankin' new S&W M&P 9mm compact pistol that I intend to use for concealed carry duty. I've ordered some self defense ammo to run thru her to see what agrees with her.

I ordered a box of Winchester Ranger 127gr +P+, Speer Gold Dot LE 124gr +P, and a box of Federal 124gr +P HST. I know a little about the Win and the Speer ammo but I can't find much info on the HST stuff other than the Federal site. Can anyone give me any info on this load? Is the bullet bonded like the Gold Dot? Any test results to be viewed somewhere? Ect, ect. Thanks for any help offered.

Shabo

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Conqueror
March 4, 2008, 02:39 PM
HST is "improved hydrashok." Expands a little better and a little bigger. It is not bonded. Federal Tactical Bonded is HST with a bonded jacket, but the bonding lessens the expansion slightly.

jlbraun
March 4, 2008, 03:06 PM
From The-Fly's site:

http://www.btfh.net/shoot/bullet-test-2.html

Here's the 124gr:

http://www.btfh.net/shoot/images/bullet-test-2/after/hst-124-small.jpg

He recommends the 147gr:

http://www.btfh.net/shoot/images/bullet-test-2/after/hst-147-small.jpg

I think the last one there is a Golden Saber 147gr.

I carry the 147gr.

hotpig
March 4, 2008, 04:23 PM
HST cam out about six years ago to replace the Hi Shock line of ammo. It was initially dubbed the Hi Shock Two. It also was packaged in the Federal Classic box just like the Hi Shock.

Some time later in the early part of 2004 Federal did some work on the ammo because in real world shootings it was not up to par. It looked good in test but not in the streets. What little of this ammo that was available got marked not for Duty use or LE use.

Federal repackaged it under their Premium line of ammo and started saying HST does not stand for anything, it just sounds cool.

Here we go again. Federal changed the ammo last year from the Premium line to the Tactical line.

Federal keeps telling us that the HST will be made available for all commercial sales one day.

I do not know what to think. Federal is saying one thing to us dealers but doing another. I guess time will tell.

Wineoceros
March 4, 2008, 04:39 PM
I ordered a box of Winchester Ranger 127gr +P+, Speer Gold Dot LE 124gr +P, and a box of Federal 124gr +P HST.
You might want to read your owner's manual regarding what S&W has to say about using +P+ in M&Ps.

pete f
March 4, 2008, 09:13 PM
HST is the ammo currently for sale to police in most places, however there is no prohibition on selling it to non LEO's at all. Its cheaper to manufacture than Hydrashocks, but it works better against a wider range of test cases than hydrashocks I pay about 20 dollars a box of fifty for it, and like it.

Avenger29
March 4, 2008, 10:50 PM
You might want to read your owner's manual regarding what S&W has to say about using +P+ in M&Ps

Yeah, don't use +P+ ammo in the M&P. I find recoil using regular 115grn FMJ WWB to be snappy enough for me, anyway, so I don't desire for anything worse. YMMV, of course...

Coronach
March 4, 2008, 11:21 PM
Federal keeps telling us that the HST will be made available for all commercial sales one day.Funny. I bought 500 rounds of it commercially from Wideners last year.

It's been flawless in my M&P40.

Mike

PaulBk
March 5, 2008, 12:07 AM
I have also been buying 124 gr 9mm HST's (std pressure) for about four years now. They work great in my Glock (zero failures) and are inexpensive enough to train with.

-Paul

RobertFBurnett
March 5, 2008, 12:20 AM
HST is "improved hydrashok." Expands a little better and a little bigger. It is not bonded. Federal Tactical Bonded is HST with a bonded jacket, but the bonding lessens the expansion slightly.

I was shopping on a site featuring LE ammo, and they had Federal Tactical Bonded? Or something like that...is this that stuff or different? And the bonding? Is that a good thing? As I usually use Federal Hydra-Shoks in my HD guns.

johnle
March 5, 2008, 02:06 AM
Bonding is more about penetration, if you plan on shooting through cars it's an excellent thing to have.

Highway patrol would probably like the the Tactical Bonded better since they have to shoot through glass, steel, etc. It'll keep together and punch holes in things, but against soft human bodies it wont expand as wide as the HST.

But for regular use, HST is king. Expands and penetrates deep but will get very screwed up if shot through barriers since the bullets jacket is weaked due to the skives down the sides to allow it massive expansion.

JBP55
March 5, 2008, 08:33 PM
I never had any problems with a M&P9 while shooting HST +P, Ranger T +P+ or any other standard pressure or +P rounds. Mild recoil with all ammo.

GunNut
March 6, 2008, 12:01 AM
Does S&W say not to use +P+ or do they say that the use will accelerate wear?

I currently carry Winchester Ranger 127gr +P+ in my Glock 19, but am considering the Federal HST loads in it and my planned 21SF.

razorblade31
March 6, 2008, 12:04 AM
I wouldn't expect S&W to say that +P+ is good in the M&P because +P+ means it is loaded beyond any saami standard. I would bet that it will work fine with somewhat accelerated wear. It is just like how companies void the warrenty for using handloaded ammunition.

Rayden
March 6, 2008, 12:44 AM
I think I overpaid for a box of 50 9mm 147gr HST HP at $27.95 >:(

C-grunt
March 6, 2008, 04:12 AM
My department, Phx PD, uses the 180 grain .40 or 230 grain .45 HST's and from what I have heard They have been working very well. I looked at some of the rounds they have on display from the testing with other rounds. The expanded HST's are consistantly as big or bigger than the Ranger T's which came in second place. One of the .45's expanded over an inch. It has good penetration too. My FTO got in a shooting with a guy with a Mac 11 and his .45 penetrated from armpit to armpit comming to rest just under the skin.

They say there has not been a instance yet where the HST has let us down.

Nikon777
April 24, 2008, 07:31 PM
You might want to read your owner's manual regarding what S&W has to say about using +P+ in M&Ps.


My full size M&P9 ate that stuff(Ranger 127gr. +p+) like candy. Shooting it in my Glock 19 OTOH wasn't fun at all.

Nikon777
April 24, 2008, 07:33 PM
I love the Ranger, but I'm switching to the HST as its way easier to get. As is the speer Gold dot.

pogo2
April 25, 2008, 11:05 AM
Here is a link to some recent gelatin tests of
Federal HST at the LA Sheriff Department. The 147 grain 9mm penetrated 13.5 inches and expanded to 0.77 inch diameter.

LA Sheriff Test Data (http://www.le.atk.com/pdf/LosAngelesWBW.pdf)

NG VI
April 25, 2008, 12:12 PM
I had the 147 grain HST in my Sigma, but last night that was moved over to the new PCR! I took it straight to the range and fired most of my Georgia Arms canned heat, then a little 124 +P+ Hydra-Shock, some 124 "+P" GA Gold Dot (it says +P on the label but it is only loaded to 1100 or 1150 FPS) and lastly, once it was good and dirty, shot probably 25-30 HST out of it because I had heard that CZ's prefer 124. It worked fine.

rklessdriver
April 25, 2008, 02:44 PM
The Federal 124gr 9mm+P HST's are everywhere in NOVA. Currently at the gun shows running about $17-$20 per box of 50. "LE Only" Tactical marked boxes of course. I've bought "some" for my stash and fired about 200 rounds so far. Reliable and accurate in both my Beretta 92F and Glock 19. Recoil is no worse than my old standby round the Federal 115gr 9mm+P+ 9BPLE.

Of course 9BPLE is availiable everywhere here also for the same money. I'm tempted to change my carry load to the 124gr HST rounds but honestly as long as 9BPLE is availiable that is what I'll continue to carry. I know the 9BPLE is "old tech" but it's track record on the street is undeniable (no matter what the lab test say). However I see no harm in stocking up on both just in case :).
Will

Bad Voodoo
April 25, 2008, 02:58 PM
Here is a link to some recent gelatin tests of
Federal HST at the LA Sheriff Department. The 147 grain 9mm penetrated 13.5 inches and expanded to 0.77 inch diameter.

LA Sheriff Test Data

Just an FYI, the summary in this doc indicates the .45 tests were performed with standard 230 grain HST rounds, when in fact the detailed spreadsheets toward the end of the report indicates actual tests were performed with +P 230 grain HST rounds.

Elmer
October 30, 2010, 05:12 AM
Just an FYI, the summary in this doc indicates the .45 tests were performed with standard 230 grain HST rounds, when in fact the detailed spreadsheets toward the end of the report indicates actual tests were performed with +P 230 grain HST rounds.
The document doesn't indicate any such thing.

I'm not even sure if the non +P version (P45HST2) of the .45 HST was out yet when that test was done. Both the HST and the SXT .45's tested were +P's, and the test data plainly says so.

Old thread, but it needed correcting.....

PabloJ
October 30, 2010, 05:56 AM
Hi there, how y'all doin'? I've got me a brand spankin' new S&W M&P 9mm compact pistol that I intend to use for concealed carry duty. I've ordered some self defense ammo to run thru her to see what agrees with her.

I ordered a box of Winchester Ranger 127gr +P+, Speer Gold Dot LE 124gr +P, and a box of Federal 124gr +P HST. I know a little about the Win and the Speer ammo but I can't find much info on the HST stuff other than the Federal site. Can anyone give me any info on this load? Is the bullet bonded like the Gold Dot? Any test results to be viewed somewhere? Ect, ect. Thanks for any help offered.

Shabo
You should have ordered 115gr Federal 'Classic Hi-Shok' JHP loads. The recoil from shooting them is not bothersome and they will function in almost any gun including my Chinese Tokarev.

Elmer
November 1, 2010, 02:06 AM
You should have ordered 115gr Federal 'Classic Hi-Shok' JHP loads. The recoil from shooting them is not bothersome and they will function in almost any gun including my Chinese Tokarev.
Perhaps they were interested in terminal performance.

Gator17
January 29, 2011, 03:04 PM
Hey ,Rayden! Couple days ago I payed 39.95 for box of 50 federal tactical hst HP 147 gr.!!! So, I think you got a good deal ...

jon_in_wv
January 29, 2011, 03:21 PM
I don' t know why people call the HST the "improved Hydrashock"? Other than being a JHP its not remotely similar to the Hydrashock in construction, concept or design. I think its misinformed to say it.

gofastman
January 29, 2011, 03:35 PM
In my humble opinion, the 147gr+P load is the best civilian self defense load out there for your 9mm.

I don' t know why people call the HST the "improved Hydrashock"? Other than being a JHP its not remotely similar to the Hydrashock in construction, concept or design. I think its misinformed to say it.
someone, somewhere spouted off the incorrect statement that HST stands for "Hydra Shock Two", the idea kinda stuck

DenaliPark
January 29, 2011, 03:48 PM
I wouldn't expect S&W to say that +P+ is good in the M&P because +P+ means it is loaded beyond any saami standard. I would bet that it will work fine with somewhat accelerated wear. It is just like how companies void the warrenty for using handloaded ammunition.
Use of +P+ in M&P's voids the warranty...HST is not improved hydra-shok, its supposed to be improved classic....

Elmer
January 31, 2011, 02:25 AM
I don' t know why people call the HST the "improved Hydrashock"? Other than being a JHP its not remotely similar to the Hydrashock in construction, concept or design. I think its misinformed to say it.

someone, somewhere spouted off the incorrect statement that HST stands for "Hydra Shock Two", the idea kinda stuck

The reason they "spouted off" that statement, is that's exactly where the HST name came from. Federal marketing nixed the idea of using the "Hydra Shok Two" name as Hydra Shok still had, (and has) a loyal (and profitable) civilian following, despite HST being a better performer.

iblong
February 1, 2011, 11:04 AM
My G27 likes the 180 gr.hst just fine.

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