Have you ever used your sidearm in self defense?


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cowssurf
March 6, 2008, 06:19 PM
It seems so hard to gauge how often firearm owners actually use their guns in self defense. I've never used my gun in self defense. If anyone has, and the story is not to personal or painful to relate, please share it, whether you fired your weapon, verbally threatened the use of a gun, or brandished the weapon.

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Titan6
March 6, 2008, 06:38 PM
Piece of what?

Winchester 73
March 6, 2008, 06:47 PM
Yes.Twice since 1985.Never fired.Verbally threatened and brandished against potential attackers in both incidents.


And I mean it
Sorry for the plagiarism Titan6!

Werewolf
March 6, 2008, 06:51 PM
Closest I ever came was in the parking lot of a large mall near 9PM. 2 guys came towards me as I was walking up on my car. At about 20 yards away they seperated from each other in what appeared to be an attempted flanking maneuver.

It was summer and I was wearing an Hawiian type shirt. Lifted it up over my holstered gun, undid the safety and watched the two guys do a 180 and clear the lot.

I hopped in my car and drove away. No I didn't call the cops. What good would it have done?

siglite
March 6, 2008, 08:43 PM
I've drawn twice. Both more than 10 years ago. Both times the attacker changed his mind before getting shot. Fairfax PD has reports on both events.

R127
March 6, 2008, 08:54 PM
Gun? Yes. Only needed to be displayed. Other weapon pre-cwl? Yes. Uglier situations. What's the point you're trying to get to? Some people live in safer than average environments others live in more dangerous than average environments but bad stuff can happen anywhere. Even at church. And the government and all its men cannot ensure your safety. So carry, hope you never have to use it but be ready in case you do.

CWL
March 6, 2008, 09:00 PM
'Bout 10 years ago, I chased a stranger out of my backyard. Had a pistol in right hand pressed flat against my thigh, don't think he ever saw it.

Been in a few 'sketchy' situations where firearm was good to have, but the other guy backed-down before it was drawn or needed. I definitely feel that some of these were de-escalated because the other person saw my 'ready' body posture and decided to go away.

cambeul41
March 6, 2008, 09:23 PM
Message deleted.

axeman_g
March 6, 2008, 09:59 PM
cambeu.... you dont have to respond to a thread you dont like the content of, the topic or the wording.

It is an unfortunate choice of words but not one to act like your going to start a fist fight over. Check you sig and then maybe rethink your response.

Elm Creek Smith
March 6, 2008, 10:05 PM
Yes. About a quarter century ago. A mall parking lot at night during Christmas with my wife and (then) small children. Knife vs. S&W. I took damage but walked away under my own power. The police didn't even take my revolver. BTW, I only heard "pops" from a 3 inch .357 Magnum but the muzzle flashes were like strobes.

In the dreams that wake me up, I can't seem to find my gun.

ECS

jenrob
March 7, 2008, 02:08 AM
When I was around 14 or 15yrs. old my mom and I were woke by something that sounded like howling.

The landlords boyfriend was beating her.

My mom all of 5' 2" decided to go down and make sure she was alright.

I grabbed my 22 rifle and out the door behind her.

She knocked on the door and asked if everything was alright. He insisted it was and mom insisted she talk to the landlord.

Boyfriend slammed the screen door open to find the end of that 22 about 10-15 feet away. I was standing out on the side walk but there was no way he was going to lay a hand on me ma. without eating a couple pieces of lead.

I held a bead on him til the cops showed up and told me to take it back home.

Now I'm afraid that if it was to happen again nowdays the cops wouldn't just tell me to take it on back home.

cowssurf
March 7, 2008, 03:00 AM
cambeul,

Relax. What are you, the king of England? I never said you talk that way. I talk that way. And why is it so offensive? And how in the world can it be interpreted as talking down? That's bizarre. Do rich people or intelligent people look down on poor people or stupid people and say, "Look at this new piece I bought." Piece is a slang term. Otherwise thought of as famiiar or colloquial. As such, I would say it's more of a peer to peer term, and not by any means a classist term. I didn't mean to offend anyone by using it. I like westerns a lot. When they call a gun a "smokewagon" or a "shooting iron." I certainly don't think of it as offensive. Can I call a football a pigskin? Can I call my car my ride? Can I call my house my pad? If I do these things, am I talking down to anyone. And why did you click on a thread who's title you found so supercilious to the point of being offensive. Furthermore, why did you answer me and then ask so indignantly why you should answer me? Loosen up. Relax. Have fun. Take your piece to the range and bust a cap in that silhouette. Tadow!

guntotinguy
March 7, 2008, 03:26 AM
I have had to pull out of the holster twice in the last 4 months...didnt have to fire,but it sure came close the last time around.The last time was (oddly enough) outside the gun range...during the day time I was approached by 3 non-english speaking men who seemed to have some malice in mind.

I tried to warn them..they didnt understand that I was armed and willing to use the .45 until my shouting at them turned into a 'pull'.Yes they ran quickly enough...good thing for them and me!

To my knowledge of talking with a few LEO's that also so to the same range,this type of occurance is becoming much more commonplace than ever before.

Flash!
March 7, 2008, 03:44 AM
a few years ago I heard a disturbance outside my house after midnight. A pickup was parked at the neighbors house across the street. A couple males in their late teens to early 20's were standing outside the truck yelling and throwing beer bottles down the street. I went out into my front yard where I could see the license plate number. Wrote down the number and started back into my house to call the police. Suddenly another man came running out from the neighbors front door running directly at and yelling at me that he "was going to f**k my a** up" I pulled my gun and it was amazing how fast he came to a stop. I told him to leave immediately because I was calling the police. He left and I immediately went inside and reported the incident to police....providing his license plate number.

rainbowbob
March 7, 2008, 04:54 AM
In the dreams that wake me up, I can't seem to find my gun.

That's the nightmare we are all trying to avoid, isn't it?

TAB
March 7, 2008, 05:03 AM
self defence no, to defend a guy being beatin by a tire iron, yes.

monkeykevin
March 7, 2008, 06:16 AM
Almost 10min ago 2hr into my BORING birthday morning researching for a bicycle at 1:50am right after getting home from work I hear my garage open because the opener doesn't work and its unlock. Hearing the garage open I grabbed my G23 darted down the stair QUIETLY to the laundry room where the garage is connected and slowly opened the first door with my barrel pointing horizontally down range and suddenly the second door in front of me leading to the garage opens before me was my mom BF who just came back from Arizona with my barrel pointed at him....:banghead:

Any how I didn't even have my trigger finger on the trigger but to the side of the frame, general safety practice in my opinion. I would of gone BANG BANG BANG if it was someone else in the middle of the night or EARLY morning. Didn't know he was coming, and its pretty damn late for anybody to make some rucces this early.

nelson133
March 7, 2008, 06:27 AM
Last spring 2 men came through the front door of my girlfriend's house. A Sig P220 in my hand convinced them they had urgent business elsewhere. No shots fired, no one hurt. I posted the full story on this board when it happened.

Deanimator
March 7, 2008, 08:23 AM
In '84, I used an HK93 to drive a guy off who was trying to run a friend and me off of the interstate, probably as part of a carjacking. He was unpleasantly surprised to find a rifle pointing at him through the windshield. He remembered important business elsewhere.

sarge83
March 7, 2008, 09:55 AM
Once, cleared leather and dropped the safety while at an ATM. The threat saw me do it and decided he didn't want to finish what he started, he stopped and didn't move a muscle. I concluded my transaction and left quickly.

hawk84
March 7, 2008, 10:05 AM
once
bout 4am in a parking lot in sd, taking off to go camping

foreveryoung001
March 7, 2008, 10:12 AM
Closest I ever came was just before Christmas last year. Sitting last in the fast food drive through line at 3am on my way home from work. Two guys who are obviously to drunk to drive, walk up to the speaker behind me, demanding that they be allowed to order. I didn't like the way they were acting, the vulgar way they were talking to the girl taking the orders, and something about two guys walking through a drive through just felt weird. So, I unholstered and placed it under my thigh so it sort of looked like I was trying to keep my hand warm by sitting on it.

These guys kept acting obnoxious, yelling at everyone in line, throwing snowballs at the cars ahead of me, stuff like that...

I get to the window, start to hand the girl my money, when one of these clowns makes a quick move toward my window. I was ready to engage right there, and tell him to back away(insert expletive), but he ended up slipping on the ice and falling between my car and the building.

I got my change & food and drove away as his buddy was helping him up. I'm sure the guy was just trying to mess with me, but when I saw him lunging at my exposed arm, holding a $50 bill, and the way the were acting, really freaked me out.

JWarren
March 7, 2008, 10:32 AM
Since the age of 15 (I'm 36 now) I have had to Five times.

1. Age 15. Prevented my sister from being raped in our front lawn of my parents' rural home. I held the two men until the poice came with an AR-15.

2. Age 16. Halted an abusive boyfriend from beating my sister during an arguement. After warning him not to strike my sister again and to leave, I was threatened to "butt out" and he continued. I stopped him with a Ruger Security Six .357 magnum and waited for the polilce. Interestingly enough, this was at a gas station where he saw my sister and I getting gas. Several adult witnesses did nothing and watched a young girl get beat. It fell to a 135 pound kid to do something.

3. Age 30. Stopped in traffic when I was living in Orlando, FL. A "punk" kid decided that he didn't appreciate me "looking" in his direction while stopped at a light. I had the radio on and ignored him. When I finally saw that he was screaming at me, I turned down the radio to see what he wanted. After realizing his problem, I rolled the window back up, looked off and ignored him. He got out of his car and started beating on my window. I still couldn't drive off due to the cars in front of me and the light still being red. After realizing he was about to break out my window with his fists, I began to roll it down. He reached in and grabbed me by the throat. As he is doing this, I raised my Glock 19 in my far hand and aimed it across my body at his head. I didn't have to say anything. He screamed and jumped in the passenger window of the girl he was with's car. She sped off and ran the red light-- almost causing a major wreck. I waited at a gas station across the street for the LEO's to arrive-- I figured witnesses had called 911, and I was right. After taking statements from me and the other witnesses, I was free to go.


4. Age 34. While staying at our hunting and fishing camp for a couple weeks, I heard something out by our pier on the river. Upon dressing and going down, I was able to determine that a boat had pulled up to the pier and was attempting to cut the chains that secured my father's boat. I shouted a warning to reveal themselves. I got no response. When I stated that I was armed, the boat sped off. Turns out that they had released and was letting the current carry them downstream before turning on their motor.


5. Age 35. Trespasser on deep in our wooded lands on our private roads. The person was evasive when approached and would not address me or identify himself. In the dim conditions, I could not see any details. After repeating my request to identify himself, he got out of the car and began making long, fairly rapid strides towards me. I requested that he remain where he was and not to come any closer. This was ignored. I repeated my request that he not come any closer to me. When this too was ignored, I allowed the AK underfolder that I had slung over my shoulder but behind me to fall into a position where I could aim and fire if I had to. This halted his advance and he became very forthcoming with indentification. Turns out this was a drunk 22 year old who was taking a date somewhere to be "alone." I let him go with a stern warning not to trespass on our land again and to NEVER ignore a guy telling him not to come any closer again. For anyone who wonders why I was insistent that he not come within arm's reach of me, my father had a friend who was killed by a strike from a trailer hitch cupped in an assailent's palm in EXACTLY the same situation.



At any rate, that's where I am. I don't put any of that up for debate. I am comfortable with my actions based upon the situations and with my actions with the law. Its very easy to "armchair quarterback" situations when you aren't in them. Some will believe they would do similar or dramatically different. I hope you never find out.



-- John

doc2rn
March 7, 2008, 11:10 AM
Once after I got out of the military in '00 a poacher was on our land. I low crawled up the dry creek bed, and popped up behind him with a pistol and a buck blackhawk. He dropped his rifle and I called the sherriff. My land is clearly marked no trespassing, so he was hauled off and his weapon seized.

The other time I was working grave yard shift and went to the Larry's choak n puke to get some grindage. While sitting in my car I see a group of 6 guys that look like football players emerge from the hotel next door. I slid my weapon out and put it between the seats and locked the door. The biggest guy comes running over and pounds on the glass saying that aint gonna stop him. I produce my right hand with Glock and he jumps back. One guy busts a headlight, and the store manager has already called local LEO. LEO calls for back-up and doesnt get out of his car. So I exited my vehicle, shouted FREEZE, and they all stopped their mad dash to the hotel and surrendered to the LEO. LEO tried to write me a ticket for brandishing, when I said I wanted to prosecute the youth for damaging my property. Good thing I had just gotten my CCW 3 weeks earlier.:mad:

nosliw
March 7, 2008, 11:13 AM
"No I didn't call the cops. What good would it have done?"

get it on record with the local PD. NCVS and UCR surveys might sway more funding towards a department that needs more patrol at night if that kind of thing happens frequently.

Charlie Oldphart
March 7, 2008, 11:32 AM
Many moons ago, it was decided that I should take a walk North. I met a fella who decided he wanted to come South and that I was standing directly in his path. If I didn't move he was going to blow me straight to hell.

Well, I was armed with a big ole one-shot manstopper--1911 .45 and a badass attitude to go with it. He wasn't impressed and just kept coming, coming, coming.

Taking a closer look, I noticed that was was armed with a T-34. I decided that perhaps I was slightly under gunned and it would be wise for me to get the hell out of there---FAST!

It was self preservation using the best weapon I had--my legs.

Of course the T-34 is obsolete today and you probably couldn't find one in your local gunshop.

You young fellas and non-historians might not be familiar with the T-34. Just Google T-34 and let us know what you find.

Y'all have a good day and stay safe!

Charlie

Treo
March 7, 2008, 11:37 AM
Once when I was 17 (totally illegal) driving down the street carload of other teen agers pulls up next to me & starts yelling at me and waving bats I pick up pistol on the seat next to me & take aim , they rapidly get off at the exit.

carnaby
March 7, 2008, 11:38 AM
The other time I was working grave yard shift and went to the Larry's choak n puke to get some grindage.

I cleared leather just reading that :D

JWarren
March 7, 2008, 11:42 AM
The other time I was working grave yard shift and went to the Larry's choak n puke to get some grindage.

Reminds me of a statement a cop friend made to me about a bar...

He said its the kind where they sweep up the teeth and eyeballs at closing.


--- John

Lashlarue
March 7, 2008, 12:01 PM
Yes , twice, one resulted in a BG being arrested tried and sentenced. The other resulted with a crackhead never entering an altercation with a knife when his adversary had not one but two guns.In that one I fired one warning shot about 5" from his ear, that was sufficient to change his attitude and stop him in his tracks and turn tail and run!

Hokkmike
March 7, 2008, 01:08 PM
I was threatened on the street once with a knife. The idiot was a little drunk and showing off to his grilfriend. I went back in my house and was going to invite him in and hold him for the police with my Ithica Model 37, but my wife talked me out of it.

cowssurf
March 7, 2008, 03:05 PM
Wow, I'm really glad I started this thread. I appreciate everyone sharing their stories. A lot of responsible gun owners who look to avoid trouble and use their gun only as a last resort.

OregonJohnny
March 7, 2008, 04:54 PM
First of all, thanks cowssurf for starting this thread, and thanks everyone for sharing your stories. Its nice to hear a lot of stories about justifiable brandishing/use of a firearm actually keeping a tragedy from happening, or stopping a crime in progress. I wish some "antis" would read this thread.

Second, although I (thank God) do not have a personal story, my mom and dad have one. They were a newly married couple staying at another couple's cabin in a rural area outside of town somewhere in California. During the evening, the 2 couples went into town and had some drinks at the bar. There were 4 or 5 local hoodlums at this bar making all sorts of comments about my mom and the other woman. My dad and his buddy confronted them and the situation cooled off, but as my parents and the other couple were leaving, they heard these guys say something like, "We know where they're staying. We'll get em tonight..."

So my dad and his buddy waited up all night at the cabin with a few hunting rifles. Sure enough, in the middle of the night, they heard a truck coming up the dirt road toward the cabin. All my dad and his buddy had to do was stand in the beam of the headlights holding their rifles and the truck turned right around and left. This story always gave me hope that the sight of a calm, determined man with a loaded firearm can often dissuade drunken locals bent on doing evil.

bluestarlizzard
March 7, 2008, 05:22 PM
my dad has had a few incidences. he never actually brandished (drew from holster), just a hint of the grip and a very stern "BACK OFF".

the only time i ever had to defend myself was against two pitbulls who charged me in my front yard. not sure if it counts, but very scary.

rainbowbob
March 7, 2008, 05:49 PM
You young fellas and non-historians might not be familiar with the T-34. Just Google T-34 and let us know what you find.

That's a good one, Oldphart (and I love the handle!). You had me going. I think it was Casey Stengal who said: "Ya could look it up!"

Treo
March 7, 2008, 05:52 PM
So did anyone ever figure out why "piece" is a "bad word" ?

bladecp
March 7, 2008, 06:05 PM
Charlie, are you talking about a T-34 as in a tank?!?

The only T-34 I have any experience with is this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-34_Mentor

jpsimms
March 7, 2008, 06:14 PM
twice I had to pull a knife to defend myself and others, Once I had to show that I had a pistol and was ready to draw when the aggressor moved back and appologized. never had to actually use either firearem or blade, thank God

Charlie Oldphart
March 7, 2008, 06:36 PM
Charlie, are you talking about a T-34 as in a tank?!?

The only T-34 I have any experience with is this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-34_Mentor



Yup. You got it right. A 3.5 Bazooka team might knock a track off if hit just right. Otherwise, run like hell and hope the heavy artillery boys weren't asleep.

Good job.

Best Regards,

Charlie

NG VI
March 7, 2008, 09:16 PM
Aha! I was pretty sure you were talking about the tank! (had a guide to "modern" tanks and fighting vehicles I studied to death when I was a kid)

I don't know if this counts or not, but when I was 18 this bonehead I knew knocked on my apartment door while I was in my room with a girl, roomate's girlfriend answered the doorwhile I was getting up to investigate the pounding noise, I had just barely gotten my USP into my waistband when him and four of his friends rushed in looking stupid. I successfully negotiated that situation without revealing my readiness to not get the s**t kicked out of me by five dudes bigger than me. I let him know the gravity of his actions a couple days later when he came over to apologize.

gym
March 7, 2008, 10:16 PM
Another leading question, gents.

JWarren
March 7, 2008, 10:21 PM
Another leading question, gents.

In what way? He asked a question and got an answer. A leading question is typically one where the question is asked in a manner to gain a preconvieced answer. I didn't see such in the manner or syntax of the OP question.


-- John

green-grizzly
March 7, 2008, 11:05 PM
No. I thought about shooting a dog once that was acting aggresively towards my kids, but I kicked it in the face instead.

rainbowbob
March 7, 2008, 11:11 PM
I have always been told "if you're gonna pull, you better shoot".

I think it is more accurate to say: "If you're gonna pull, you better be prepared to shoot."

There are plenty of instances, as evidenced in this thread, stories by Ayoob, and many others, where the display of a drawn gun provided an effective, non-lethal deterrent to violence. Potentially lethal – yes - but if an attacker stops at the sight of your firearm, you no longer have license to kill the guy. That doesn’t mean the threat wasn’t real, and it doesn’t mean you had no reason to pull your weapon.

It isn't illegal to "brandish" a weapon in the face of an imminent threat – but shooting a man that is no longer attacking you is. You can hold them for the police if you think you can safely do so, or you may have to let them walk away. In either case you didn’t break the law, you didn’t die, and you didn’t kill anyone.

Treo
March 7, 2008, 11:19 PM
I think there's a fine line between a defensive display and illegally "brandishing a weapon" .

I carry for self defense not because I want to shoot some one.

I think most people that post here would exhaust every reasonable option short of actually pulling the trigger. in 42 years I have presented once. Had that one time gone a step further I would have shot. but when the BGs backed down I was more than willing to let it go. As for calling the cops , sooooo not gonna happen I don't go one step closer to a cop than I absolutely have to

siglite
March 7, 2008, 11:50 PM
marinepilot,

I hope I retain presence of mind and act as these other men have.

It's very hard, or nearly impossible to tell over the internet if this line is laced with sarcasm. It *almost* seems like you're calling participants in this thread internet rambos or something. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you meant it sincerely. Regardless, after reading your earlier posts about illegal brandishing versus legal shooting, I'd like to elaborate on the two times I had to draw.

I posted earlier that I've drawn twice. I'll describe the second time first. A disgruntled gentleman was asked to leave the place of business where I worked. He returned, raising hell, screaming at the top of his lungs at our female staff up front. When I appeared at the reception area, he started screaming at me, reached under his shirt, and started yelling "you want some? you want some?" I drew. His hand came out from under his shirt empty, and even staring down the barrel of a glock he continued to shout threats and insults. But then he left. Swearing threats the whole way out the door. Was that illegal brandishing? Should I have shot him?

The second time would take a bit more time than I'm willing to take to describe the step-by-step. But it was a much more intense situation. This was very early in Virginia's shall-issue times. The officers didn't really know how to handle it when they arrived (I called). So, the shift commander decided to temporarily take my pistol until he could talk to a judge. He said I could pick it up the following Monday. He was true to his word, and I picked up my pistol at one of the detachments the following Monday, just as promised. He relayed the judge's words to me after reading the police report and eye-witness reports. The judge said "I would've shot the sonofa#####."

I very nearly did shoot the sonofa#####. I can't adequately relay how close I was to pulling the trigger. Just thinking about it right now as I type is causing my stomach to roll as I remember it. It sucked. But the guy stopped, literally at his last fraction of a second on this earth if he'd continued. Based on the judge's words, I could have shot that guy and walked. But even though I was completely justified, I'm glad that I didn't. I promise you I would have, but I'm glad I didn't have to. And not just because of the legal headaches that would've lead to my eventual acquittal or case dismissal. But because I value human life. And I'm glad I didn't take one that day.

pbearperry
March 7, 2008, 11:53 PM
One night I went out for a walk on a cold Feb. evening.I was all bundled up and I was walking past a school where there are only a few houses near.A car with 5-6 males in their late teens yelled some crap out the windows as they were passing.The car then backed upabout 50 yds and the driver yelled out "hey old man". I was about 35 at the time.I kept walking and the driver yelled"Hey old man I am talking to you"'At this time they all got out of the car walking towards me.Three of them had baseball bats.At this time I pulled my Browning Hi Power and I yelled to them"OK who wants to die?"They ran back to the car and left burning rubber.This was before cell phones.There is no doubt in my mind that if I was not armed I would have probably taken my last walk.

32winspl
March 8, 2008, 12:41 AM
Yes, I've been prepared to use a gun 3 times, and have used one twice.
The first time, I was building a sign at a Church in Memphis in a questionable part of town. I had just pulled up on the job and was doing some paperwork. Two guys walked up on me from behind; one on either side of my van. The guy on my side showed me a knife; I showed him my SA 1911. When he scrammed yelling "RUN", the guy on the passenger side did too. No shots fired and no cops called.
The second time, I was vacationing at my Gramma's place in the woods in the UP of Michigan. The neighbor's place about 1/4 mile away had been broken into repeatedly over the previous 2 years. When I saw headlights at their place knowing that there shouldn't be anyone there, I hopped into my truck and went over there with my Win 94, parked my truck in a bend (leaving the lights on bright), and jumped out in the inside of the bend and waited for them. They couldn't see me or my rifle. Turned out that they were distant relatives (at nearly 2am) drunk, and looking to not have to drive back to town. So they spent the night in a trailer on our property.
The third time, I was in a bad part of Memphis to pick up a load of Cherry lumber for a carpentry job. My order wasn't ready yet, so I went to a nearby McDonalds for lunch and to kill an hour. I went through the drive through and ordered a couple of cheeseburgers and fries, got my order, and pulled into the first available parking space to eat and listen to Rush Limbaugh. I have an AMT Backup 45 in my pocket and a SA 45 1911 chamber empty, muzzle back between my legs, and a yellow cheeseburger wrapper on my lap, burger in my face when a Black guy jumps in the passenger side door and plops his happy ass into the seat and puts his Raven or Davis chromy .25 in his lap and says "Gimme some money!". I slowly lowered the burger into my lap, yanked out my 1911, racked the slide, and pointed it at his chest. I know we were both wide-eyed. I told him that if he'd get out of my van, and be REAL careful how he picked up his gun, that I wouldn't kill him. It was just like TV or a movie, he picked up his pistol very carefully between the thumb and forefinger of his left hand, and gingerly backed his ass out of my van; showing the gun at all times. He ran south down the street at high speed. I was cool up til this time. Once he was gone, my knees went to rattling and I was a wreck. I left almost immediately; my right toe vibrating on the gas pedal. Everyone got to go home. The downside is that I'll bet he never jumped in someone else's vehicle without pointing his gun at the occupant. I've had a lot of people tell me that I should have taken his gun; held him for the cops, whatever. I was and am satisfied that I didn't get shot, and that I didn't have to shoot him. I know that I would have; twice in the chest, if he'd done ANYTHING other than what he'd did. I didn't have a ccp at the time even though it had been passed, so naturally, I again didn't call the Police.
A couple of months later, I took my 18 month old son to the nearby train crossing to watch a train near his bedtime. We'd heard the horn some minutes earlier. I got him out of his carseat and we waited for the train. It came. It honked. It passed. We loved it. I had just locked him back into his carseat and was walking back around to the driver's side when Memphis PD showed up; 2 cars; one in front of me and the other behind. The Lady asks me what I'm doing and I explain that my kiddo and I like trains. The guycop takes me back to his car and asks me if there is anyone that will verify my sanity? I asked ***? He explained to me that someone driving by had called them thinking that I might throw my boy under the train. So I gave them my Wife's name and work-number (even though we were seperated). He wants me to get in the back of his car. I do a full spread against his car and tell him that I have a tiny 45acp in my pocket with a round in the chamber. He takes it from me and clears it, and puts me in the back of his car. He asks me why the hell I'm "packing". I said "For the same reason you are... to see to the safety of my family, myself, and to take care of them tomorrow too. (I wasn't legal then). My wife (now ex) shows up some minutes later and gives them a lotta crap... "They like trains!" The Guy comes back, lets me out, gives me my gun back, and Kiddo and I go back home. Oh, by the way, My kiddo's memory of this event amounts to "the nice Police Lady who sang a song with me", and gave him some coloring books.

rainbowbob
March 8, 2008, 01:04 AM
Before tonight, I was in the "pull and shoot mindset" because of the "if you didn't shoot, there must not have been a real threat" legal scenario.

I think we all are learning something here about the high-stakes, life-and-death decisions that some of us have had to make, and others may have to make someday. That is why I keep coming back to THR.

I apologize for drifting off thread a little here, since the following incident from a couple years ago did not involve a firearm. It did, however finally break through my fog and convince me to CCW.

I was walking my dog one afternoon and almost home when I heard a crash, followed by some loud belligerent swearing. When I rounded the corner I saw two guys and a van. The driver was swearing as he picked up his passenger side mirror and got back behind the wheel.

I stopped in my driveway to grab the mail. A few seconds later, the van went flying down the road past me at a very high rate of speed. I turned and gave him the hand-signal for “slow down” (pumping one hand, palm down - not the one-finger salute). He slid to a stop about 150 yards away, slammed into reverse, and sped back up the street to where I was standing with my wolf-dog.

By his speech and his manner, I concluded he was probably very high and/or nuts. From his seat he yelled, “What did you say &@#$%?!” I replied “I didn’t say anything.” He growled, “You better not, #*@$%*!” - and roared back down the street.

It seemed very likely at that moment that had I said or looked the wrong way, he and his buddy might have jumped out of the van with a tire iron, or a busted mirror, and beat me senseless. Wolf-dog or not, I’d have probably been screwed.

Had I been armed, it probably would have ended just the way it did. There is no point in my narrative that I would have drawn my gun. I would still have attempted to verbally diffuse the situation as I did. But a snubby in the pocket sure would have been a comfort if the door of that van had started to open.

rainbowbob
March 8, 2008, 01:13 AM
32winspl said:
The downside is that I'll bet he never jumped in someone else's vehicle without pointing his gun at the occupant. I've had a lot of people tell me that I should have taken his gun.

So I guess there is no point in reiterating that suggestion. It would just be after-the-fact, I-wasn't-there, second-guessing anyway.

bruss01
March 8, 2008, 01:25 AM
Sarge83 said:
Once, cleared leather and dropped the safety while at an ATM. The threat saw me do it and decided he didn't want to finish what he started, he stopped and didn't move a muscle. I concluded my transaction and left quickly.

The obvious question this raises is, what did that person do that made him appear a threat?

One of the things that gets me is, if someone's walking up and looks like they may be going to use the ATM next to the one you're using, how would you know they were a threat until you reached around and felt the knife in your back? Why would they announce if their only purpose is to get your money and your car keys?

Now certainly, if a guy comes up and says "gimmie all your money!" while brandishing a knife, he's a threat. But some guy not all that well dressed who simply avoids making eye contact, who plausibly might be there on legitimate business of his own? Do you trust a "vibe" and be willing to pay for it with your freedom if it happens to simply be a case of nerves or mild paranoia?

Like I said, would love to hear in many of these cases what sets of your "threat" indicator.

NWdude83
March 8, 2008, 01:29 AM
Not going to go into detail, but I've come close to "flashing my piece" once or twice to drivers suffering from extreme SUV road rage. I ended up calling the fuzz though. Decided it wasn't worth it.

NWdude83
March 8, 2008, 01:35 AM
I know it sounds cheezy, but I am thinking about putting one of those stickers on the back of my car that reads, "Warning: driver only carries $20 worth of ammo".

rainbowbob
March 8, 2008, 01:46 AM
I...would love to hear in many of these cases what sets of your "threat" indicator.

I think that is an important question. I too would like to hear more about that from those who have been in that position. Not to second guess or criticize, but to better calibrate my own creep-o-meter.

JWarren
March 8, 2008, 07:54 AM
I...would love to hear in many of these cases what sets of your "threat" indicator.


I'd love to be able to tell what set mine off-- but doing so probably paints me as rather dull-witted for my lack of such.

In the cases I listed, there really wasn't anything per se. In one, a couple guys are tearing my sister's clothes off and she is crying-- good indications that something may be wrong. Another, a guy is hitting my sister-- same thing. Etc.... etc...etc...

The only one where I showed any potentiall situational awareness was the last-- and that one wasn't rocket science. There's no way I would confront a trespasser deep in the woods on an deserted road in the middle of the night without means of protection handy.

While I do consider myself to be much more situationally-aware now, it primarily stems from my diminished faith in many of our society to have any moral compass.

-- John

Treo
March 8, 2008, 10:11 AM
QUOTE "Do you trust a "vibe" and be willing to pay for it with your freedom if it happens to simply be a case of nerves or mild paranoia?"

QUOTE: "Like I said, would love to hear in many of these cases what sets of your "threat" indicator".

For me there would have to be an overt threat before I actually drew. But I'd be at defcon 2 as soon as they, in any way, invaded my space.

I'm getting to the point in life that all I really want is to be left alone, when some random stranger goes out of his way to interact W/ me I start to wonder why and my guard tends to go up.

cowssurf
March 8, 2008, 03:27 PM
Excellent posts. Keep them coming. Just to clarify something: It is not brandishing if your life or limb is threatened. But if you pull out your gun and then the threat disappears, you have no legal argument to fire your weapon. It is illogical for any court, judge, or jury to assume that a deadly threat that appears cannot disappear. And while there are definitely bizarre travesties of justice resulting from self defense trials involving guns, if you pulled your gun and the threat ceased and then you fired, you have committed a crime. All of these posters who've described scenarios where they pulled their gun in self defense but didn't have to pull the trigger, were fortunate (as were the perpetrators) and acted honorably and wisely from a legal standpoint. I hope I would do the same if a similar situation arises.

NWdude83
March 9, 2008, 06:10 PM
Last night I was at party, and I wasn't carrying. Big mistake. This guy who was somking some bad pot got in my face all of a sudden for no reason and starts threating me. So I tell him I'm not looking to fight cause it's my friends party and I don't wanna piss him off. So he keeps getting up in my face like he is about to start throwing punches. So trying to scare him away, I say "Hey dude, I would really hate for you to get shot". He flips! He is all "What! What! You don't know what you are starting man" He reaches his hand back around him like he is about to pull a gun or knife on me and says "Man you don't wanna start anything, saying something about getting shot". And because I didn't have my gun on me (idiot) I tell him "Hey just calm down man, no one said anything about getting shoot". "We were all just standing here talking a minute ago and you snapped and got in my face for no reason". So he still has his hand behind him, so I'm staring to think he is bluffing cause he hasn't pulled out anything to try and scare me. But I'm not gonna egg him on. So I keep trying to difuse the situation. Then finally his friend/the owner of the house comes in and I tell him whats going on and he tells his friend to leave. And I tell him "You know I don't have my gun on me tonight. But if I had brought it, I might have had a good reason to use it." And he tells me that his friend tweaks out like that sometimes and he doesn't have a gun, that he was just bluffing. I tell him "Thats a good way to possibly spend the last night of your life, trying to start fights randomly and acting like you are gonna pull something on someone who usually carries a gun".

JWarren
March 9, 2008, 06:21 PM
This guy who was somking some bad pot got in my face all of a sudden for no reason and starts threating me.

I say "Hey dude, I would really hate for you to get shot". He flips! He is all "What! What! You don't know what you are starting man"


Far be it from me to arm-chair quarterback-- and I'm not trying to be critical. However, I have to say this...

From my experience dealing with idiot frat boys when I was in college (I was one of those idiot frat boys.), the first mistake is trying to have a real conversation with an intoxicated person. Its like trying to nail jello to the wall.

Second, I'm not at all certain I would have made the comment that you made. It invites the response that you got. My view is to not telegraph anything until you have to do so. Considering that you were not in a position to carry through, it was dangerous to you.

At any rate, thank you for sharing that.


-- John

Sans Authoritas
March 9, 2008, 06:35 PM
NWDude,

You need to find a new crowd to run with. A sidearm is not an ego-booster, bargaining chip, or a situational pacifier. It's a sidearm, and unless you open carry, you shouldn't make its existence known for an imprudent reason, which, in this case, is precisely what it sounded like you did.

-Sans Authoritas

Greell
March 9, 2008, 06:56 PM
It's called CONCEALED carry for a reason. It stays concealed, and nobody should know you have it, unless you absolutely have no choice.

I have had to brandish once. I was driving my car down a small side road going to a grocery store. I wasn't speeding or driving recklessly. some guy in a small car I couldn't identify (just know it was a honda ) pulled up and started tailing me (obviously wanting me to speed to get out of his way). I put on my blinker to go left into the parking lot of the store, and he slams his breaks and I heard him yell something out his window. At first I didn't think anything of it, it hadn't crossed my mind he was swearing at me. I went about my business and went to park, as I did that I saw him speed up behind me and stop right behind where I was parked, blocking me in.

He got out of his car, and made some remark about "killing" me. He then threw a full (top closed) can of Coke at me, and it hit the top of my door and burst, luckily my window was down or it may have broken that portion of the window, also lucky that he had bad aim or that may have brained me.

I stepped out of my car and pointed my sig p229 right at him as he made a verbal and physical threat to my life, and directed him to stay back, and asked him what the problem was. He screamed out some obscenities as he ran for his car and sped off.


I don't know if the person who made this thread meant "how many people have fired their gun in self defense?" but all I can say is, you don't have to shoot, to defend yourself.

Mandirigma
March 9, 2008, 07:17 PM
....

Dynasty
March 9, 2008, 08:05 PM
Some great posts have been made and I am learning a lot about how to properly handle a threatening situation. This thread has got me thinking. I'm 18 and living in Ohio. I am legally allowed to purchase a rifle/shotgun and ammo, but not a handgun and ammo (21 is the legal age). I believe you must be 21 to legally carry in Ohio, also. My question is would it be a wise choice to carry at the age of 18 in Ohio? I know right off the bat I would be violating owning a handgun, ammo, and carrying under age, so to many it is obvious that it is NOT a wise choice to do so, but...in today's crazy world where anything can happen, I feel I want to defend myself as well as my family. My family is against firearms and when I mentioned I could legally purchase a rifle and/or shotgun they were against it. I plan on purchasing both soon, not only because I love shooting and firearms in general, but because I want to help protect and defend my family from any threats. I do not live in a bad part of town and rarely put myself in bad situations, but like I said before (and many could agree) anything can happen at any time and I want to be prepared to defend myself, family, and friends. Being an athlete and physically in shape, I feel I can hold my own but if something like a group of punks coming at me to act tough or a clearly larger (im 5'9 170lbs) and angry man comes at me, there is no doubt in my mind I will be helpless. What do you suggest I do in order to protect my life and the lives of others I love?

Greell
March 9, 2008, 08:17 PM
i'd suggest until you're 21----stay out of trouble ;)

then once you're 21, get a nice carry handgun, and your CCW....then continue to stay out of trouble ;P

Ragnar Danneskjold
March 9, 2008, 08:27 PM
NWDude, I hate to say it, but the whole situation traces back to your first mistake of going to that party in the first place. People who carry weapons have a higher responsibility to not take part in the same types of lawlessness and behavior such as at that party. You should either give up carrying, or give up the pot smoking parties. I suggest the latter, but it's up to you.

jaholder1971
March 9, 2008, 09:55 PM
Doc2rn wrote:

The other time I was working grave yard shift and went to the Larry's choak n puke to get some grindage. While sitting in my car I see a group of 6 guys that look like football players emerge from the hotel next door. I slid my weapon out and put it between the seats and locked the door. The biggest guy comes running over and pounds on the glass saying that aint gonna stop him. I produce my right hand with Glock and he jumps back. One guy busts a headlight, and the store manager has already called local LEO. LEO calls for back-up and doesnt get out of his car. So I exited my vehicle, shouted FREEZE, and they all stopped their mad dash to the hotel and surrendered to the LEO. LEO tried to write me a ticket for brandishing, when I said I wanted to prosecute the youth for damaging my property. Good thing I had just gotten my CCW 3 weeks earlier.

Sheesh, Doc, simply eating at Larry's was placing your own life at risk! I don't even believe we have a brandishing law he could cite you for anyway.

That sounds like Topeka PD. Ever hear about the fight in the Gage Bowl parking lot where 12 guys were putting a beatdown on one guy? The cops stood there watching the guy get killed when Fire (1st responder) show up?
4 Guys jump off the truck in bunker gear and fire axes,end the fight and pull the guy to an awaiting ambulance, the whole time TPD watches.

It ain't the same PD my father worked at, that's for certain.

cowssurf
March 10, 2008, 01:31 AM
Dynasty,

I would definitely say, don't buy a handgun until you're 21. If you buy the gun, that's one broken law. And who is the criminal who is illegally selling it to you. Already, you're placing yourself at risk just to buy it. Then carrying it is of course illegal. To top it all off, you're now an adult, so you do adult time for your crimes. Keep staying out of trouble for three more years. As far as home defense goes, get the shotgun and shoot it a bunch. Remington 870, 18.5" barrel, and a six shot mag filled with 00 buckshot--that's just about as good as anything else you could think of for home defense, even when you get your pistol in 3 years. What we don't want is you giving more business to illegal gun sellers and giving gunophobes more reason to be scared and want to take everyone's gun.

NWdude83
March 10, 2008, 06:14 AM
First of all: everyone there was fine except for that chubby idiot.

Second: HE THREATENED ME FIRST. Read my post again!

Third: I tried difussing the situation and calming him down. Only when it looked like I had no other option but to scare him from a fight, did I say the first thing that came to my mind.

Fourth: looking back on what happened, I certainly would have done a couple things differently.

Fifth: If anyone one of us "gestured" like we were gonna pull a gun on a cop for example, we would not be alive to talk about it.

JWarren
March 10, 2008, 08:58 AM
NWDude83 wrote:

First of all: everyone there was fine except for that chubby idiot.

Second: HE THREATENED ME FIRST. Read my post again!

Third: I tried difussing the situation and calming him down. Only when it looked like I had no other option but to scare him from a fight, did I say the first thing that came to my mind.

Fourth: looking back on what happened, I certainly would have done a couple things differently.

Fifth: If anyone one of us "gestured" like we were gonna pull a gun on a cop for example, we would not be alive to talk about it.


My friend. I would suggest you heed the words of those who have posted comments-- especially marinepilot81.


I'll see if I can elaborate on what seems to be the general consensus.


First of all: everyone there was fine except for that chubby idiot.

OK. What would have prevented you from walking away from said idiot? I mean... as soon as you realized he was beligerent, why not just get away from him without needing to exchange words?


Second: HE THREATENED ME FIRST. Read my post again!


We did read it. It seems that the general consensus is that the threat was not great enough to bring up the possibility of him getting shot. If anything, the consensus is that you escalated the situation SIGNIFICANTLY by your choice of response. Again, I ask... why did you not just remove yourself from said idiot?


Third: I tried difussing the situation and calming him down. Only when it looked like I had no other option but to scare him from a fight, did I say the first thing that came to my mind.

You tried to calm him down AFTER suggesting the possibility that he would get shot. To me, it seems that you have a -10 and a +1. Still negative. Often the first thing to come to mind is the wrong choice.


Fourth: looking back on what happened, I certainly would have done a couple things differently.

Of that, I have no doubt.


Fifth: If anyone one of us "gestured" like we were gonna pull a gun on a cop for example, we would not be alive to talk about it.

I have no idea what this is about... so I leave it without a comment.


My friend... please don't get defensive about this. I am with the consensus where I see how this could have been handled better. So what? There are MANY things in my life that I wished I could have handled better. There will be more in the future.

Hopefully, this has been a learning experience for you. But we only learn from our mistakes when we are mature enough to acknowledge that the mistake was indeed a mistake. That thar's some personal growth.

Hang in there, and understand that those commenting are trying to look out for your best interest.


-- John

lee n. field
March 10, 2008, 10:29 AM
the only time i ever had to defend myself was against two pitbulls who charged me in my front yard. not sure if it counts, but very scary.

Of course it counts.

moharrow
March 10, 2008, 05:43 PM
about a month ago at an ATM. I was approched by a young man, very thin who demanded that I give him my money. I said no. at that time he produced a knife. I drew my 45. he ran.I called 911

per the local sheriffs office this is becoming more common

High Planes Drifter
March 11, 2008, 03:37 PM
I've had to draw twice to save my life, and I was involved in one shooting during Hurricane Katrina(which I wont talk about). The other 2, I'll share.

The first time I drew my weapon involved a man whom I'd had previous trouble with. He caught up with me at my shop and, pulled in behind me with his truck, blocking me in. He stepped out of his truck and grabbed a length (approximately 6') of galvanized pipe from the bed of his truck. He proceded to walk towards me with the pipe, I was standing on the side of my truck with the drivers door opened. I reached in across the drivers seat and retrieved my Sig 220. I aimed it at him and informed him that if he took one more step towards me "I was going to make his birth certificate a worthless document". He stopped. The police were called and he was arrested.

The second time was one of the strangest things that has ever happened to me. I was working on a boat in my shop, and a naked man runs right into my shop. Now when I say naked, I mean this guy was in his birthday suit and nothing else !! Stark nude - top to bottom. Imagine this scene - 2 outboard motor mechanics elbow's deep in a Mercury Optimax, and a nude man runs right by them !!. I yell at him to "Get the H*** out of my shop" and he ignores me !! He's just huddled up under a work table. My helper is about dying with laughter; you've got to know my helper.... . Heck, I didnt know wether to laugh, get a camcorder, or call the police. My mind was made up for me when Mr. Franknbeans grabs a pipe wrench off of the work table he was hiding under. I drew my G19, and held him on the ground for the police. Turns out this brainchild tried shoplifting a local grocery store, and when store security got onto him, he took off. He stripped his clothes off after swimming a drainage canal.

phonesysphonesys
March 11, 2008, 06:51 PM
Yes, on several occasions. You just know when things are going bad. If presenting a weapon makes the aggressor change his mind you don't have to kill or harm them. But don't pull a weapon unless you can and will use it.
Semper Fi

Rokyudai
March 11, 2008, 06:58 PM
Mr. Franknbeans grabs a pipe wrench off of the work table he was hiding under

:scrutiny: Did you get your wrench back?

Flopsy
March 11, 2008, 07:05 PM
In the dreams that wake me up, I can't seem to find my gun.

Slightly off topic, but relevant to this line. In my youth, I had an often recurring dream that I am trying to defend my life with a gun, and it malfunctions and won't fire. Now that I'm a shooter and maintain my weapons, the dreams have stopped.

High Planes Drifter
March 11, 2008, 07:14 PM
Did you get your wrench back?

no. :D


They (the cops) knew the guy by his first name; they called him as such right when they stepped out of thier cars. He must have had previous run ins with them. The security guy from the grocery store showed up, and he knew who the guy was also.

CAPTAIN MIKE
March 11, 2008, 07:30 PM
The problem with posting a self-defense use of the sidearm or long gun here is that it brings out all the 'Armchair Quarterbacks and Generals' who weren't even there and didn't experience what you perceived or felt in terms of a threat. My 3 instances will remain undiscussed except in person, given the flaming here that goes on by folks who weren't there and feel the need to second-guess your perception of a threat.

dirtdog
March 11, 2008, 07:35 PM
Coming back from my birthday party . I had a few drinks so the wife was driving she is a non drinker and to be honest I only had three in the course of 4 hours, but they were made by family - so she was driving.

We are on a back road going to the house out in the country and the car in front of us stops dead center in the road.

Wife stops behind it and the guy in front of us get out of his car and we see in the head lights him reach in the back seat and pull a baseball bat out.

I get out and say is there a problem , as I pull my handgun out and fill my hand with it.

He says no and drives off , we make sure we aren't followed and go home.

That was it .

WhiteKnight
March 11, 2008, 07:46 PM
The problem with posting a self-defense use of the sidearm or long gun here is that it brings out all the 'Armchair Quarterbacks and Generals' who weren't even there and didn't experience what you perceived or felt in terms of a threat. My 3 instances will remain undiscussed except in person, given the flaming here that goes on by folks who weren't there and feel the need to second-guess your perception of a threat.

Thank you for contributing absolutely nothing to this thread. Not a single person has acted as an "armchair quarterback" or "general" so far, and your post is nothing but an annoying waste of bandwidth. The only person who has received helpful feedback so far acted in a manner that warranted it, because he placed himself in at a pot-smoking party and escalated the situation.

No one has flamed anyone so far, and your negative attitude does not add one ounce of helpfulness to this thread. As my mother always said, "if you can't say anything nice, please keep your mouth shut." As an addition to that, "if you're going to complain for absolutely no reason about a nonexistent problem in an otherwise positive and insightful thread, please keep your mouth shut. Thanks, bud.:)

Rokyudai
March 11, 2008, 07:51 PM
no.


They (the cops) knew the guy by his first name; they called him as such right when they stepped out of thier cars. He must have had previous run ins with them. The security guy from the grocery store showed up, and he knew who the guy was also.

Well, all in all the situation could have been worse. You could have been asked to come in and identify him in a line up. :neener:

rainbowbob
March 11, 2008, 08:18 PM
...given the flaming here that goes on by folks...

You might as well have posted your experiences, Captain Mike - you got flamed anyway.

siglite
March 11, 2008, 09:24 PM
Well, all in all the situation could have been worse. You could have been asked to come in and identify him in a line up.

a~la Porky's ?

Halo
March 11, 2008, 09:39 PM
Thankfully I've never had to place my hand near the pistol, but I did have one incident that made me never leave home without one again. I think a lot of us have those stories.

My Dad, on the other hand, had an encounter where a gun really did save his life. He was working behind a maintenance building, in a fenced-in equipment yard, when two thugs approached boasting that they'd "see what color your white-a** is on the inside". One of the guys he worked with, thank God, saw what was going on and ran in gun-in-hand. The two previously cocksure young men had a sudden change of heart and fled.

I get really incensed when people argue that private citizens should not be allowed to bear arms. By implication they are saying that anyone who ever defended themselves with a gun should have been dispossessed of that gun, thus at the whim of their attacker. Whenever I hear that BS I ask them "So, are you saying that my Dad should have been killed then?". Turn the emotive claptraps back on them I say.

Mikhail Konovalov
March 12, 2008, 10:18 AM
A few months back there was a murderer on the loose in my area. He killed people my family knew, and apparently this psycho knew my father (Though not very well, my father owns a bar he frequented) also.

Well, about the time this guy started killing people, I triple-checked my Mossberg 500A every couple of hours and started carrying (Only inside the house, mind you, I was 20 at the time), my Kahr/AO 1911A1 GI condition three in a Don Hume IWB all day and night, never left my side unless I left the house. I got the night shift for watching the house, so a friend and I are just hanging around, chain-smoking Camels and watching TV, and I get up to go to the restroom.

The minute I got out into the hall, I heard a single, loud thump against our front door, and before I realized it, my cigarette was on the floor, my .45 was in my hand, and the sound of a slide racking was ringing in my ears. Everything went quiet. The TV was muted, I jerked to my senses and picked up the cig before it burned a hole in the carpet, and I flipped on the outside light just in time to see one of our big tomcats slam into the door again while chasing a female. I flicked the safety back on and said "False alarm." before returning to the room.

Scared me to death afterward, but I was downright robotic when the time came. I later found four bloody scratches in my side where my fingernails had torn into me on the draw. I never put my finger in the trigger guard.

How a cat made that much noise I'll never know. Turns out the guy got caught a tousand miles north of us the following day. Lucky me.

eric.cartman
March 12, 2008, 11:42 AM
Once.
The gun didn't clear the leather though.

Wife and I were on Publix parking lot here in Ft. L. at the Coral Ridge Mall. Two thugs approaching. Now mind you it's 10pm or so and the parking lot is EMPTY, and they are heading straight for us. I actually noticed when they were still far away. I tell my wife to step aside, and put the shopping cart between myself, and them. They approach even closer, I turn sideways, put my hand on my H&K P2000 IWB. They didn't see my gun, but I think they figured by the way my arm was behind my back... you know. They stop about 15 feet in front of us. I look at them. They look at me. They look inside our car, then back at me.

One guy says: "What's up?"
I say nothing. Just stare at the guy.
They look at each other, and like nothing happened just slowly walk away.

I have no idea what that was all about. I think they were fishing. And I didn't take the bait.

PirateRadio
March 12, 2008, 12:44 PM
This thread really makes me hope that Illinois will wise up and pass the concealed carry bill.

JWarren
March 12, 2008, 12:48 PM
Captian Mike wrote:

The problem with posting a self-defense use of the sidearm or long gun here is that it brings out all the 'Armchair Quarterbacks and Generals' who weren't even there and didn't experience what you perceived or felt in terms of a threat. My 3 instances will remain undiscussed except in person, given the flaming here that goes on by folks who weren't there and feel the need to second-guess your perception of a threat.


I've actually been surprised by the LACK of arm-chair quarterbacking and "flaming" in this thread's 4 pages. I've seen one person get a bit of constructive criticism-- which I contend was needed considering what was relayed.

Overall, this has been a very positive thread.


-- John

30 cal slob
March 12, 2008, 12:57 PM
yes. :barf:

Tribal
March 12, 2008, 03:06 PM
I drew my 45. he ran.I called 911

Sounds more like you called 1911, which was on the scene much faster.

.455_Hunter
March 12, 2008, 03:24 PM
I have fired my weapon once in self-defense:

Case #1- Vicious Dog Attack (Parent’s House near Boulder, CO, Spring 1988)

When I was age 12, I was walking along the frontage road going to get the family mail when the “neighbor’s” bezerk, psycho dog charged me. :uhoh: I drew my Crossman 10 pump pellet pistol from the custom full flap leather holster my dad had made for me and fired it at point-blank range (think howdah pistol). The .177 cal LRN pellet at 600 fps did its job though- The dog let out a mighty yelp, stopped in it tracks, and ran back to its property. :D The dog was lucky that it did not press home with its attack, as my back-up weapon was a homemade copy of a British Rifle Officer’s sword (straight blade, like seen in the PBS series “Sharpe’s Rifles”) with a hand sharpened 36” blade. :cool::evil:

My father has fired his weapons twice in self-defense:

Case #2- Probable Mountain Lion Attack (Parent’s House near Boulder, CO, Fall 1997)

My dad was returning from hiking behind the house (on City/County Open Space) near dusk when his “sixth-sense” tripped. He drew his .357 Mag Ruger Police Service-Six from its holster and continued on the trail as it crossed a small ravine. He caught the motion of the cat as it moved into a better attack position above him on the slope and peered around a tree. :uhoh: The way the cat was acting indicated that it thought it was too dark for my dad to see, and it was looking for the right moment to strike. My dad did not want to kill the animal, so lined the sights up on a on the cat’s head, shifted three feet up onto the tree trunk, and let loose a 158 gr. Gold-Dot JHP. :D The cat did 180 degree flip and sprinted into the distance, no worse for wear. My dad just had some ringing ears to show for it. My father and I still have encounters with the cats near his house where weapons are made ready to fire. However, this is the only instance where a shot was actually necessary.

Case #3- Elk Hunting Camp (25 miles SW of Meeker, CO in No Man’s Land, Winter 1996)

My dad, brother and I had set-up camp in a grove of cedar/pinion pine with our truck mounted camper in the middle of the BLM. While we were eating dinner (about 10:00 pm), my brother asked “What’s that noise?”. I opened the door as was greeted a staccato of rifle rife about 200 yds away or so. :confused: :eek: We turned off the camper lights and bailed out of the camper. I took up a firing position behind the rear truck wheel and drew my Enfield No. 2 Mk. 1*. At that moment, another fulisade shattered the night stillness, with the bullets zipping through the air and branches above the camper :what:. I yelled to my dad and we decided to get what long arms we could from the cab. I high-crawled (thanks Army ROTC training :)) to the cab door and yanked out a 20 ga. single shot New England Arms shotgun and my Chinese SKS. I found out first hand that stripper clips work well under duress, as I had the rifle ready to go very quickly! We took–up our covered positions again just in time for the next magazine dump. My dad was getting very POed by now, and popped-off two or three 20 ga birdshot loads into the night sky to let our “friends” know that were we there and armed. Immediately, we heard doors slam and a vehicle speed off into the distance. Our final determination was the a car full of trigger happy idiots had drove out into the BLM and decided that the grove of trees we were camped in would make a nice target or backstop for their nighttime activities. :fire::cuss::banghead: I don’t think they thought twice until they heard my dad’s shotgun blasts.


There a few times that I thought I might have to use my self-defense weapon:

Case #4- Camping Trip (North of Caribou CO, Summer 1994)

Dad and I were tent camping when, around midnight, a group of drunk motorcycle riding idiots decided to start riding around blasting things with shotguns. :eek: We took cover in the nearby trees, expecting them to cross the low creek to our camp site at any time. After an hour or so, things died down and we threw the tent into the back of the truck and bailed. We had to drive by the perpetrators’ “camp” when we left (that was exciting!), but nothing further occurred. Afterwards, I commented on how multinational our defenses were that night :D- I had a .303 British Lee-Enfield No. 4 Mk II loaded with Czech S&B ball, a Czech CZ-52 loaded with Italian Fiocchi 7.63 Mauser ball on my hip, and my dad had an American Ruger .22 Mag Single-Six loaded with Federal 50 gr. JHPs. The best thing about the aborted trip was the fact that I got to see the complete break-up of a re-entering satellite when we stopped later to pack-up the tent. Very cool!

Case #5- Possible Burglar (Rental House, Manhattan, KS, Spring 2002)

My wife (then fiancée) were spending our last nights in her rental house prior to moving from Kansas to Colorado. :) We awoke to a howling dog and my wife thought she heard a door knob jingle. I grabbed the Maglight and the Colt Police Positive Special (.38 special w/ 110 gr. Silvertip JHPs) and went out into the living room / kitchen area. When I discovered that the garage access door was unlocked and open, I beat a hasty retreat back to the bedroom and called 911. :what: The responding officer was a rookie, and I told him what had occurred. We cleared the main level, and decided to both clear the unfinished basement (filled with boxes and other good hiding places). The officer was more scared than I was :uhoh:, and we were both relieved when nothing showed-up.

Case #6- Grumpy Deer (North Table Mountain, Golden, CO, Fall 2004)

My wife and I were hiking on North Table Mountain when we came across a herd of mule deer. This was not strange, since there are many deer in this area. However, this time, during the rut, one of the large bucks came towards us in an aggressive fashion. I drew my S&W Model 60 loaded with Speer 158 FMJ +Ps as a precaution as I began yelling and throwing rocks at him while we quickly departed the area. Lucky for us, the buck lost interest as we moved away from his harem.

My family’s armed encounters are split 50/50 between hostile or potentially hostile two-legged predators and hostile or potentially hostile four-legged predators.

Please comment if you want.

Hunter

WayneConrad
March 12, 2008, 03:32 PM
No. That's just how I like it. I'll be a happy man if I can die having carried the darned thing around all my days and never needed to use it.

lanternlad1
March 12, 2008, 03:45 PM
I haven't had to yet, but my wife did.

She was sitting in her car at a stop sign in a very nice area of town, (almost at her destination - her hairdresser's) when some idiot tried to get into her car (luckily the doors were locked). He kept pulling on the door handle to get in, so she pulled her Taurus 85 (with lasergrips) and put the laser dot right on his nose. She said he yelped and ran off as fast as he could go. She pulled into her hairdressers and ran inside and called 911. He hairdresser (male) learned what happened, pulled his 1911 and ran outside to look for the guy! The cops came, she told him what happened, and he asked if she had fired the gun. She said no, to which the cop replied "Too bad, they're easier to catch when they're dead." He took the info, and reckoned by my wife's description of his dress that it was a college student pulling a prank. He notified the campus police, and that was that. He told us that there was a new trend among college students to jump into cars or trucks at stop lights and bum rides. I don't think this particular guy will try doing that with anyone again.

.455_Hunter
March 12, 2008, 03:51 PM
The hairdresser (male) learned what happened, pulled his 1911 and ran outside to look for the guy!

Boy, that sure busts a stereotype!!!! :D

Cosmoline
March 12, 2008, 04:04 PM
I've had to point a long gun a few times towards nogoodnicks out in the sticks, but that's SOP around those parts and doesn't count for much. I came close dealing with an apparently unnarmed but completely insane punk a few years ago. Posted about it here. He threatened to kill me and my dog, but never drew anything so I did nothing. I took other measures to get rid of him. The situation reminded me of how incredibly fast things can happen, and how hard to predict real life encounters can be. Esp. with nutcases who gesture in odd, threatening ways. I've been a firm believer in pocket carry since then. With all my winter clothes on getting to an IWB or shoulder rig would have left me dead.

theken206
March 12, 2008, 04:10 PM
"Last night I was at party, and I wasn't carrying. Big mistake. This guy who was somking some bad pot got in my face all of a sudden for no reason and starts threating me. So I tell him I'm not looking to fight cause it's my friends party and I don't wanna piss him off. So he keeps getting up in my face like he is about to start throwing punches. So trying to scare him away, I say "Hey dude, I would really hate for you to get shot". He flips! He is all "What! What! You don't know what you are starting man" He reaches his hand back around him like he is about to pull a gun or knife on me and says "Man you don't wanna start anything, saying something about getting shot". And because I didn't have my gun on me (idiot) I tell him "Hey just calm down man, no one said anything about getting shoot". "We were all just standing here talking a minute ago and you snapped and got in my face for no reason". So he still has his hand behind him, so I'm staring to think he is bluffing cause he hasn't pulled out anything to try and scare me. But I'm not gonna egg him on. So I keep trying to difuse the situation. Then finally his friend/the owner of the house comes in and I tell him whats going on and he tells his friend to leave. And I tell him "You know I don't have my gun on me tonight. But if I had brought it, I might have had a good reason to use it." And he tells me that his friend tweaks out like that sometimes and he doesn't have a gun, that he was just bluffing. I tell him "Thats a good way to possibly spend the last night of your life, trying to start fights randomly and acting like you are gonna pull something on someone who usually carries a gun"."

no offense there dude but, sounds like your mouth wrote a check your behind couldnt cash my friend.

your lucky your buddies tweeker friend didnt have a blade or a gun.

and seriously, who the hell goes around starting crap with people at a party cuzz they smoked some bad weed??

sounds like homeboy was smoking something else or drunk to me.

been to alot of parties, even smoked some of the reefer in my youth{though hell by most im still a "yout"}and never seen someone get all brody over smoking some crappy weed.

I once did a very foolish thing at a friends birthday house party in the midst of what i thought was my friend getting jumped and could have done a even more foolish deed had I not quickly relized my error.

if you cant handle the heat there sonny boy, stay on up outta the kitchen ya digg

eric.cartman
March 12, 2008, 04:23 PM
+1 theken206,

Packing a deadly weapon around people high on drugs. NOT COOL.

stevereno1
March 12, 2008, 04:29 PM
I never have, but My dad had to draw on a crackhead at a gas station. He backed away and got the flock out of there. Most of the buzzards are too smart than to prey on confident, weary people.

hunterSthompson
March 12, 2008, 05:15 PM
i work as a pizza driver and i have seen some really weird stuff.

that being said i have pulled and cleared 3 times..

the first time i was going to a BIG BOX store for a run in monsoon like rain. i pulled up to a handicap parking space where in the spot to my left a man with his infant kid was getting out of there van. i did not think much of it as van doors slide open and there was plenty of room for me to pull into.so while i was getting the order together he is standing under an overhang i figure hes waiting for his wife or something as i approach he says something i did not hear him due to the rain and figured it was another brilliant weather report like ( its really raining huh? ) so i chuckled and said yep! then it got weird he gets in my face and says you think its funny did you not hear me? now i am confused *** is with this guy so i say no what did you say?he then goes into this rant about how i almost hit him and his kid and how i should not park there due to a handicap person needing the spot.so i turn and look there is 4 more handicap spaces next to me and 3feet or so between my car and his van.so i point this out to him and tell em if he wants he can call my boss but he wont care i am the head driver and in the 4yrs that i have been there he will make only my 2ed complaint so have fun. i walk into the store feeling jumpy i hate confrontation and decide to finish fast and get out as he did not fallow me in so i did not know if hes waiting to confront me again or calling my boss. i make my sale and head out the door he is not where i can see him but his wife is yelling something at the back of the van as i get closer to my car i see he is getting something from the back of the van and yep here he comes waving a tire tool at me saying he is gonna kick my ass i reach and grab my beretta 9000s ( .40 cal ) and point it at him and tell him to stop or he will get shot. i then here his wife yell at him to stop being a dumb ass and get back in the car before hes killed. dudes eyes got real big said i am so sorry and got into his car and drove off faster than any mini van i ever seen

he later called my boss and said he was so sorry and was thankful i did not shoot him.

the 2 ed time i came to a apartment building and heard screams coming from the one i was going to and thought ah hell what am i walking into tonight i went up and knocked on the door and pulled up my shirt to expose the but of my gun on there blind side so as not to spook any one. guy shouts who is it? pizza i say a woman comes to the door bleeding for her head and begging me to walk her to the car. i say ok and as she is pulling her son out the door with her the guy comes into the picture big dude gotta be 6'5" and all of 300 pounds he screams you aint leaving b***h and grabs the kid by the arm i take two quick steps and draw the muzzle is pressed up to his temple and i tell him in vary clear terms let go of the kid and get on the ground slowly and he dose so the lady has turned a vary pale shade of white i give her my phone and tell her to call the police the police so up rather fast and arrest him and give me a pat on the back as they are taking him away he says you never had the balls i should have rolled you the cop who had my gun in his hand turned to him and showed him a round was in the chamber safety was off and the hammer was cocked and had he tried to ROLL me it would have been the last stupid thing he would have done. his girl friend said she was always afraid of him and what might happen when he got out this time i gave he my gun shops card and told her it was her choice to be scared or armed.police said it was gonna be his 5th battery charge.

last one three men where breaking into a shop down the hall from my pizza store ( strip mall ) and i got on the phone with the police via my blue tooth and gave them a profile of three from a distance and guided them in for the bust they never knew i was there watching them all three went to jail on drug and burglary charges..

ps remember to tip the pizza guy at least 10% :)

tmajors
March 12, 2008, 05:58 PM
Yes have used my sidearm in self defense, twice, in the 10ish years I've been carrying. Drew once, only showed gun in holster the other time. No firing.

OregonJohnny
March 12, 2008, 07:50 PM
Since a few have already posted "times I wished I'd had a gun" situations, I'll add one:

I lived in Los Angeles for almost 3 years (moved back home to Oregon just a few years ago, thank God). While I lived there, I saw a lot of weird things, but only once did I feel really threatened. I was driving with my girlfriend down Wilshire Blvd. around the West Hollywood area. It was around 7 or 8 pm. We came to a stop light and the guy in the car in front of us got out without warning, stomped toward my car, turned at the last second to march over to the SUV next to me, pounded on their window and started screaming. This guy was amped up and pretty large. It became clear very quickly that he was juiced up on something because he started picking fights with everyone around him. When he got back in his car and the light turned green, I slowly kept driving, and sort of lost track of his car. Suddenly, he was right beside us with his window down, yelling at me. I made sure my doors were locked, windows up, and told my girlfriend to just avoid eye contact and ignore him. I slowed to about 10 mph and tried everything I could to avoid him. He pulled in front of my car, slammed on the brakes, sped up, swerved beside me again, then back in front. He got into a turn lane, so I took the chance to floor it and zip around him but not before he took one last swerve to try and hit me.

My legs were shaking and my heart was pumping and I was glad to get out of there without a problem. For some reason, when I'm alone, I feel more calm and confident in situations like this, but when a girlfriend is with me, I really worry about their safety first and just want to get out of there. Anyway, a gun wouldn't have been legal or even necessary in this situation, but I felt pretty vulnerable in my soft-top car stopped at an intersection with this lunatic pounding on windows. If he had decided he really needed to teach someone a lesson or if I had even slightly confronted him, I'm sure I would have been hospitalized or worse. Oregon is a much nicer place and I can legally carry here.

Bazooka Joe71
March 12, 2008, 10:30 PM
Man, some really excellent, "feel good" stories you guys are sharing! I think if I wasn't in the presense of so many good people, these stories may have some different outcomes.

Oldphart, that story is just priceless!!! LOL If the history channel wasn't my favorite channel, I'd have had a different opinion on yer ol' story.:p

Man! John, you've had some interesting experiences to say the least.:eek:

A guy beating your sister with people around and they did nothing; wow...I just couldn't imagine what my conscience would do to me if I allowed that to happen.

At least her buck-thirty-five lb little brother was there to save her.:)

I have no stories of my own...I am young, but I hope it stays that way.

I guess it would be a mix between living in a relatively small(~10,000 people), relatively peacefully(0 murders since I've been alive) town and being substantially larger than the average grown man by the time I was 15-16 years old that has kept me away from the "tough guys" begging for someone to look at them cross-eyed.

misANTHrope
March 12, 2008, 11:12 PM
I've never had to display a weapon to someone much less use it, but I do recall one encounter years ago, before I even owned a gun, that could have easily ended with me robbed and/or dead. I'll preface this by saying that I was young and somewhat stupid, which will somewhat be reflected in the events leading up to my encounter.

I was living in Raleigh at the time, was 20 years old (or thereabouts), and had just bought myself a Camaro. In other words, I was (in my mind) one cool cat. So one Saturday night, around 11 or so, I'm cruising down a main thoroughfare, and I want to find some dude in a riced-out Civic to race so I can stroke my fragile ego. So I park my car in the lot of a strip mall, and proceed to just sit there with the music going. Presumably, I was going to wait for a likely suspect to appear on the road and chase him down or something.

Anyways, there I am- it's summer, the windows are down, it's nice outside, and as I said before, I think I'm about the coolest guy on the planet. As I sit there, I see a black guy ambling down the sidewalk on the far side of the road. As I continue to watch, he stops, waits for traffic, crosses the road, and begins walking in the general direction of my car. I don't get too worried but I do keep an eye on him. When he's about 30 feet away, he changes course slightly and walks right up to my window.

I don't remember a lot of details about the conversation that followed, only that it started out relatively benignly and then started to get somewhat creepy. I seem to recall him asking me if I was a hunter, and him saying that he liked to hunt white deer or something like that. By this point, I was calculating in my mind just how quickly I could drop the parking brake, grab reverse, and GTFO. I didn't really care for my chances if it came to that, but there didn't seem to be much else I could do if he had decided to make a move. Eventually, the conversation ended, and he wandered off to do whatever other activities he had scheduled for the weekend. I left the area, my interest in racing a ricer 100% quenched.

If he'd had ill intent and had acted upon it, the chances of me getting out unscathed would have been practically nil.

Anyway I appreciate all the sharing that's gone on here- it's been a very educational read for me, and goes to show just how many defensive uses of firearms don't find their way into the statistics.

rainbowbob
March 12, 2008, 11:21 PM
I do recall one encounter years ago, before I even owned a gun, that could have easily ended with me robbed and/or dead.

As I sit there, I see a black guy ambling down the sidewalk on the far side of the road. When he's about 30 feet away, he changes course slightly and walks right up to my window.

I don't remember a lot of details about the conversation that followed, only that it started out relatively benignly and then started to get somewhat creepy.

Whew! That was a close one, all right! :confused:

misANTHrope
March 12, 2008, 11:29 PM
Whew! That was a close one, all right!

It's difficult to put it into words, but trust me that the undertone of the conversation was threatening by the end. Nothing outright, mind you, but when there's a guy standing two feet from you saying things like "I'm a hunter... you know what I mean?" with a very knowing look on his face, you start to wonder exactly how this encounter is going to end. I can tell you that my sixth sense was ringing off the hook.

The point is that looking back, it was a situation that could have ended very differently, and if it had gone that way, there basically wouldn't have been a damn thing I could have done about it. It was an eye-opener for me.

rainbowbob
March 12, 2008, 11:36 PM
I can tell you that my sixth sense was ringing off the hook.

I do believe in paying close attention to that sixth sense, and I did not mean to second-guess your instincts. I wasn't there.

RRmerlin70
March 13, 2008, 02:58 AM
I want to preface this by saying I'm not trying to be antagonistic or to judge anyone, but looking over a lot of these stories it seems to me that in many cases the threat of a gun resolved the situation very fast. I understand that in a lot of these close call situations that thankfully didn't end in shots being fired, having a loaded weapon allowed for the appropriate confidence level to chase the bad guy away. Also, if it ever came to violence, drawing something without the ability to back it up with lead would assuredly make things worse for the defender. However, I'm curious if there aren't others out there that think that an unloaded (or blanks, used safely) gun is sufficiently effective. I only ask this because those that have fired a gun and later regretted it are probably not weighing in here.

cowssurf
March 13, 2008, 03:39 AM
RRmerlin,

How do I reply when I've never been one of those who've fired a gun? I can't jump into anyone else's head and feel their guilt or lack thereof, but I think that is a dangerous situation to put yourself in to pull out an unloaded gun. It immediately gives someone cause to kill you if their was only previously the threat. It also gives them the ability to easily kill you and any loved ones you may have near. There is no reason to buy a gun for self defense if you are not prepared to pull the trigger should that most unfortunate situation present itself. At least that is how I feel about it.

chris in va
March 13, 2008, 05:26 AM
Alright, here's why I started carrying.

Sitting outside a 7-eleven, nice balmy summer evening eating ice cream with my friend, her 12yo daughter and my worthless Shepherd on a leash.

Girl/dog were on the curb, we were across the little access road thing on the other curb, maybe 20' away. I had noticed this white Lumina slowly circling the gas pumps, driving out to the (busy) road, coming back in...eyeballing people.

Well here come these two scurvy guys ambling up to make comments about the dog. "Oh I had one of those, they're great dogs" etc. Started petting him, coming awful close to the girl. I look over at my friend, she's attentive but whispers "it's fine, keep cool, don't say anything, don't stand up" She worked at a motel so was used to seeing these characters.

Meanwhile the dog just wags his tail and has zero protective posture for the girl. None.

Now at this point I'm thinking it would be awfully easy for them to grab her and take off. It looked like they were feeling out the situation, maybe I was just paranoid.

They eventually left. I did not have anything on me if something did happen. It was the last time I wanted to feel like that.

EDIT: Forgot to mention the people getting whacked after cashing their paychecks, robbing people in the neighborhood next to mine, machete attacks by MS-13 and bank robberies. And WalMart kidnappings.

loop
March 13, 2008, 05:31 AM
Most of us who have don't talk about it a lot.

I'm surprised so many people have been able to be so open.

It is a highly personal experience.

chris in va
March 13, 2008, 05:43 AM
I'm surprised so many people have been able to be so open.


You'll notice most (all?) of the stories do not involve shooting someone. Those are the stories people don't like to tell.

I had a neighbor that served as a PO. He had a gun grab in a bathroom, had to shoot the guy once he got control. Really didn't like to talk about it.

electronrider
March 13, 2008, 12:18 PM
I woke up to the sound of someone wandering around my house. Jumping out of bed, and grabbing my ruger single six, I open up the bedroom door and see some guy standing in my living room. I point the weapon at him and holler out "what the f&*^$ are you doing in my house. He just stands there, a small sized skinny white guy, maybe in his early to mid twenties, and I have to ask him the question like 3 times, cause my brain just isn't up to speed yet. ( this all happened in about 15 seconds of me waking from a dead sleep). My head finnally clears enough, and he is saying how he thought this was the neghbors garage, and by then he just gives up and says " just shoot me man". At this point my neighbor ( the house is about 30 feet from mine) comes running in the open door, looks at him ( and me in the tighty whities with a gun in my hand) and starts screaming at this guy, telling him how he's lucky that I didn't blow him away. She runs him out of the house, and starts profusely apologising, saying he is some dumbass looser drunk friend that came by when her and her friends were partying, and just left their house. I got free dinners from her for almost a month! LOL. In retrospect, I was amazed at how long it took my brain to get itself together to actually be able to process the situation. The guy really was just some chump drunk looser, and I am certainly glad that he wasn't a real threat. No police called, and it was all good.

TCUGLOCKER
March 13, 2008, 02:35 PM
Only once thus far, I was driving home at about 3 a.m. through the Oaklawn area of Dallas. I was in the middle of an intersection when a white sedan made a right-turn-on-red and nearly hit me; I honked and remained behind the sedan since there was only one lane with the construction. When we stopped at the next red light the Driver and Passenger doors opened and 2 young, black, gentleman started walking back towards my car. I promptly took my G27 out of the glove box and displayed it over my steering wheel. Both guys looked at me, then each other, then decided they would wait till another day to go to prison for the rest of their lives.

hill billy
March 13, 2008, 05:43 PM
From a newbie I thank you guys who have shared their stories. SOme things that I have done to better protect myself in a county where it's illegal to be a gun carrying citizen
1. My windows are all tinted black in all my cars. I have found this decreases the incidences of hard looks or yelling from people who aren't sure who (or what ;) )may be behind the glass
2. I don't go out much at night. Granted part of this is because I'm not a teenager anymore and part because it just doesn't make mush sense for me. I NEVER go to an ATM at night and instruct my wife to make sure she does the same.

I fully understand this won't cover everything, but every little bit in my favor helps. Hopefully my crime ridden county will get a new Sheriff in two years.

I hope I never find myself in the position to have to shoot anyone, unfortunately I have pulled a gun on a member of my own family. It would have sucked, but I would have shot him, in retrospect, he needed it. :(

Bazooka Joe71
March 13, 2008, 06:01 PM
However, I'm curious if there aren't others out there that think that an unloaded (or blanks, used safely) gun is sufficiently effective

That might be the worst idea ever! If you unholster your gun, you better be damn good and ready to use it!

You'll notice most (all?) of the stories do not involve shooting someone. Those are the stories people don't like to tell.



A big huge +1 to that...Kind of like the "Have You Ever Had an AD" thread...No one got hurt(except maybe the storyteller's Arm/Leg) in any of the stories...No one wants to talk about hurting someone.

Leanwolf
March 13, 2008, 10:04 PM
RRMERLIN 70 - " However, I'm curious if there aren't others out there that think that an unloaded (or blanks, used safely) gun is sufficiently effective. "


One of the dumbest things a person can ever do is try to run a bluff with a deliberately unloaded gun. (Or one that is useless because it is loaded with movie blanks.)

There most definitely are bad guys out there who will not be bluffed, and at that point, you're either going to have to use your firearm, or you're going to have to eat it.

Carrying a firearm requires carrying the responsibilty that goes with it, and the requirement to use it judiciously should it become necessary.

If a person can not do that, then he or she should NOT carry the firearm.

But, again, don't ever try to run a bluff with a gun!
L.W.

wheelgunslinger
March 13, 2008, 10:24 PM
Shot once at age 14 with birdshot from a 12 gauge. Still have a piece in my chin.
Stabbed in the leg after school by a kid at age 15. Still have a scar on my left leg.

Pulled a rifle on a guy trying to rob my house, and another carload looking for trouble when I was 15.

Drew on a group of 4 guys who were threatening they were going to kill me in Davie FL.

Opened fire on a guy with a handgun who was shooting at me with a deer rifle way back in the woods.

Nearly shot a guy for breaking into my house recently.

None of it was fun or glamorous.

cowssurf
March 13, 2008, 10:52 PM
Whoa! Wheelgunslinger, where are you from, Dodge City? Sounds like you've had a fairly colorful upbringing.

Elm Creek Smith
March 14, 2008, 12:37 AM
Quote:
In the dreams that wake me up, I can't seem to find my gun.

That's the nightmare we are all trying to avoid, isn't it?


Yes, it is, Bob. Every once in a while the scars on my off hand still burn, too. A "security" guard told the police that it sounded like cannon going off with the masonry-faced buildings in the area. He didn't even come to the scene until the police arrived. The mall got a new security company shortly afterwards.

ECS

BruceRDucer
March 14, 2008, 12:44 AM
We were shooting shotguns in the forest, when over a dozen trees that weren't even green began making threatening motions toward us.

We loaded up the 2 shotguns and a semi-auto in .40 S&W and cut 3 trees down right there, because they just would not back off.:uhoh::uhoh::uhoh: The rest of the trees just froze, and we were able to back out of there.:uhoh::uhoh:

cowssurf
March 14, 2008, 02:04 AM
Bruce,

I have no idea what your post means.

Elm Creek,

Not sure what yours means either.

You are both very cryptic and coy. No need to post if it's too painful to relate in full.

Sergeant Honor
March 14, 2008, 02:40 AM
I wish my state allowed me to carry concealed, on the news everyday i hear of the crime coming closer and closer to my neck of the woods. but I have used my weapons as a detterent.

1) when i was in middle school I used my dads nickel plated Colt 1911 to scare off some neighborhood boys who had malice in mind (all were carrying some sort of blunt instrument)
2) used my 12 ga Remington 870 Marine Magnum (i love that shotty it runs on ammo and love) to deter a robbery in progress at my home. I was in the basement most of the lights were off upstairs. I heard a mighty BANG!!! like the sound only a door being kicked in would make. Grabbed the Shotgun, chambered a round, walked slowly upstairs to come almost an arms length away from a very startled criminal in search of something to sell to buy drugs. His nose was almost in my shotgun barrel. Asked him to raise both hands with some very Un-High Road like words. police were called. Druggie hauled away to jail.

3) Gun-Grab situation in a motel room. I still cant speak of it. There's no feeling quite as undescribable as being ready to die or kill someone.

siglite
March 14, 2008, 11:03 AM
We were shooting shotguns in the forest, when over a dozen trees that weren't even green began making threatening motions toward us.

We loaded up the 2 shotguns and a semi-auto in .40 S&W and cut 3 trees down right there, because they just would not back off. The rest of the trees just froze, and we were able to back out of there.

I don't find this amusing at all. In fact, I find it quite insulting. There are people in this thread who've relayed their real life experiences in defensive situations. I can't speak for them, but there's nothing funny at all about mine. I do not laugh when I consider the second time I had to draw (which I have not, and will not detail). In fact, what I get instead is a sickening dread-like rolling in my stomach when I consider the memory, along with a rush of adrenaline. The bad kind of adrenaline.

And along comes some clown making jokes at the expense of people who've been in some really crappy situations, who apparently were stupid enough to share them with others.

I don't know you from adam. So, it might be unfair of me to assume from your post that you've never had to draw, never been shot at, and never been in a life threatening situation at the hands of people who want to do you harm. But if my assumption is correct, please take your stupid jokes elsewhere, as the title of this thread is not "please come make stupid jokes about self defense."

BruceRDucer
March 14, 2008, 11:41 AM
Really Siglite?

First, try lightening up and cultivating a sense of humor.

Second, look at the precise language you used:


"And along comes some clown making jokes at the expense of people who've been in some really crappy situations, who apparently were stupid enough to share them with others."---siglite

Third, you just referred to the posters here as "stupid enough"

and Fourth, I wrote the joke at MY expense, not the expense of others.

Fifth, why would you personally feel "insulted" when nothing I wrote addressed you?

I'm enjoying the stories very much. Otherwise, know this:

I'm a combat veteran and I don't suffer from provisional self-esteem. If you want to ride the high horse, try that with someone else.

siglite
March 14, 2008, 11:54 AM
First, i find nothing at all humorous about this topic.

Second, if you're missing the obvious sarcasm present in the line you quoted, I can't help you.

Third, which is really still on your second point, we (or at least I) should've known someone would spout off as you did. Though, the tree angle was not exactly what I expected. It's a tad more creative than calling everyone dangerous mall ninjas. But, equally effective at getting your opinion across.

Fourth, your "joke" was at the expense of everyone who's relayed an SD story in this thread.

Fifth, your post addressed everyone in this thread.

BruceRDucer
March 14, 2008, 11:59 AM
Cowsurf,

I can only think of one time in civilian life that I ever had an actual incident involving a firearm, and like many others here, it totally freaked me out.

My 18 yo son and I were shooting handguns in a forest (a legal activity) when I got confronted by a man about the danger to hikers.

I had the gun in the holster on my hip, and the man's tone was not conversational. He was shouting at me, and worse, he seemed committed to enforcing some kind of dominance over me.

I had already apologized for any wrong, and agreed to move to a more distant spot, but this man would not shut up. He had an adult son and his wife with him, and he was a large man.

Finally, at my wits end, I just blew up at the guy. I told him in colorful language to (1) shut up and (2) get the hell away from me.

All the while, I was thinking that if he moved on me, I would just hand the gun to my son and go to the ground with the guy. As it was, he got my message quite clearly and reluctantly moved off.

As for the trees in the forest story....that was a genuine incident in which we cut down several trees with our guns.:rolleyes:

Norinco982lover
March 14, 2008, 12:01 PM
Gentleman (and ladies),
Just wanted to say thank you so much for your posts! I have learned a lot of useful information from your personal experiences. I recently moved into an apartment alone and as I am 19 years old and I suppose a bit of a wimp I did not really enjoy living alone in the city. That is until I bought my first gun, a Norinco 982, at a gunshow last week for $120. I keep it loaded in my closet--but that is where my question is-- should I keep 6 rounds +1 in the shotgun---or should I just leave a couple? I'm worried that I may wear out the spring in the tube with all of those shells crammed in there. Also, since I am getting married in two months and my fiancee is 21 and I was thinking about having her get her CCW (KS recently got it) and that way she could pack when she was with me, and I'd feel safer when she was alone. I wonder what the legal repercussions would be if we were walking through town and a situation arose that I had to palm her gun out of her purse/small of her back? Thx!

p.s. feel free to relocate this post if needed

BruceRDucer
March 14, 2008, 01:19 PM
"I'm curious if there aren't others out there that think that an unloaded (or blanks, used safely) gun is sufficiently effective. I only ask this because those that have fired a gun and later regretted it are probably not weighing in here. "---RRMerlin

Pulling any gun either with blanks or unloaded, certain can make someone back off, but like someone else said, there's absolutely no other recourse after you've pulled that gun.

If an antagonist also pulls a weapon, you have to either drop it or run, or plead for your life. Now, if you simply pull a LOADED gun, it's better, assuming you have to pull it.

But planning that the other party will be frightened at the mere sight of a gun isn't so smart. What if you encountered someone speeding on drugs? (or just adrenaline) Then you might actually have to USE that weapon.:rolleyes:

primlantah
March 14, 2008, 02:58 PM
i have 3 stories:

1. I was 17 and on my way to take the SAT at a school on a side of town i was unfamiliar with. I was having trouble finding the place so i pulled over to look at my map. Some crack head walks up to the driver side door of my truck and starts jerking on the door handle telling me to let him in. I never put the truck in park so i cut the wheel towards him and tried to take out his feet. Drove off and never looked back. This isnt gun related but is the event in my life that made me decide to arm myself the day it was legal. It can happen to anyone, anytime, anywhere, for any reason.

2. Was at home with my girlfriend. We just got out of the shower(our roommate was at work) and i heard a loud rustling sound from the living room. Buck naked, i grab my 45 and head to check it out. Apparently it was just our printer recalibrating itself... an unfamiliar sound since its usually off. Never been so startled by a nonliving thing. i could only imagine the reaction of a burglar seeing me come in the room the way i did :).

3. Was with the girlfriend picking up some take out down the street. She had her hands full as we were starting back to the car. 2 guys looking fresh out of prison look at her and then eachother. They changed direction toward her... at the time they were walking up behind her. I dont think they saw me yet. I wasnt carrying on my person because i havent gotten my permit yet. However, where i live its legal to carry in your car without a permit. I saw this and alarms went off in my head for my girls safety. I locked eye contact with the guy in the lead, opened my car door and grabbed my 45. I didnt clear leather but it was enough to tell these guys they were messing with the wrong guy. They did a 180 and got in their car. before i left i made it a point for them to see me identifying their faces and car. My girlfriend was quite grateful that i had my xd and was watching her back.

rainbowbob
March 14, 2008, 04:29 PM
My 18 yo son and I were shooting handguns in a forest (a legal activity) when I got confronted by a man about the danger to hikers.

Bruce:
I would guess that if an angry hiker is standing there telling you he is pissed off about where you are shooting that you aren't far enough away from the trail to be shooting in the woods. Like I say, it's just a guess since I wasn't there. You say it is legal, but at least one person didn't think it was safe.

As for the trees in the forest story....that was a genuine incident in which we cut down several trees with our guns.

And you were cutting down trees with firearms? Unless they were your trees, that couldn't have been legal.

I gotta agree with Siglite that at the very least your posts are off-thread. And so is mine for that matter, so I'll end it here.

cowssurf
March 14, 2008, 04:48 PM
Norinco,

Two things. I have a Remington 870 which your Norinco is supposed to be a copy of. I keep it loaded with 6 in the mag. I'm not sure about the quality of Norinco's mag springs, but if you're worried, you could buy an 870 mag spring and swap it out with yours (I believe they're interchangeable).

Two, I wouldn't keep a shotgun loaded with one in the hole (the +1 you referred to). I could be wrong (and I welcome any corrections) but I don't beleive shotguns are drop-safe. And if they are drop-safe, I don't think a Chinese copy of an 870 would necessarily be drop-safe. So I suggest loading the mag, but keeping the chamber empty. A pump is very quick to do any how.

Werewolf
March 14, 2008, 05:20 PM
I don't know you from adam. So, it might be unfair of me to assume from your post that you've never had to draw, never been shot at, and never been in a life threatening situation at the hands of people who want to do you harm. Man SigLite: Take a chill pill.

I've never had to draw as a civilian but I have been shot at and have been in life threatening situations at the hands of other people who wanted to do me harm...

AND YOU KNOW WHAT?

I thought the shotguns in the forest post was amusing bordering on good for a laugh.

Lighten up man. You take stuff way too serious.

Dumpster Baby
March 14, 2008, 05:27 PM
I almost shot a cat with a Browning High Power once. It sneezed at a time and place where a sneeze from any living thing was very ominous. :evil:

fearless leader
March 14, 2008, 05:34 PM
Quote: Taking a closer look, I noticed that was was armed with a T-34. I decided that perhaps I was slightly under gunned and it would be wise for me to get the hell out of there---FAST!

It was self preservation using the best weapon I had--my legs.

Of course the T-34 is obsolete today and you probably couldn't find one in your local gunshop.

You young fellas and non-historians might not be familiar with the T-34. Just Google T-34 and let us know what you find.

Here it is. I guess I wouldn't have taken that on with a 45 either! I thought you were talking about a Tokarev.

harbingerm
March 14, 2008, 06:47 PM
One thing that's very useful in these posts are the people who include the city/state/year when these incidents occurred. Hopefully, everyone from now on will do the same. I'd sure like to know where I DON'T want to live!

siglite
March 14, 2008, 07:19 PM
Both times I drew occurred in McLean Virginia (very upscale DC suburb) in the late 90s.

Elm Creek Smith
March 14, 2008, 08:24 PM
Elm Creek,

Not sure what yours means either.

You are both very cryptic and coy. No need to post if it's too painful to relate in full.


Nothing coy about it, cowsurf. Go back to my first post in the thread (#10). All shall be revealed.

ECS

Illuminaughty
March 15, 2008, 07:59 AM
http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=17501

I've had a couple instances where I really wish I had a firearm. Both involved being in the wrong part of town and a large group of people trying to get into a fight with me. Luckily, I managed to get out of the situation without getting into a fight either time, but the one time where I was being followed I actually went to the police station, and the SUV full of punks pulled on the other side of the street. I was low on gas, I explained my situation to the cops inside and they would do NOTHING. So I waited inside for 45 minutes or so until the guys left. I decided from that point out I'm going to carry and I'm going to have enough ammunition for these previous encounters I've had. That's why to this day I'm never with less than 37 rounds of 45 acp and my Glock 30. :)

Also, I almost always have a trunk rifle too. Mine just happens to be getting refinished at the gunsmiths' right now.

BruceRDucer
March 15, 2008, 10:25 AM
Fearless:

Actually, when I saw your reference to a T34, :what:I was thinking it must be some exotic handgun which I had no knowledge of; but I did the search, and right before the results popped up, it occurred you were referring to one of the greatest tanks ever built. Good point.

cowssurf
March 15, 2008, 12:59 PM
Elm Creek,

Thank you for the revelation.

Kenneth Lew
March 16, 2008, 01:04 AM
.......

Elvishead
March 17, 2008, 11:27 AM
Been on the other end with out a gun more than once. Still living!:neener:

jkingrph
March 17, 2008, 09:06 PM
A few months back there was a murderer on the loose in my area. He killed people my family knew, and apparently this psycho knew my father (Though not very well, my father owns a bar he frequented) also.

Well, about the time this guy started killing people, I triple-checked my Mossberg 500A every couple of hours and started carrying (Only inside the house, mind you, I was 20 at the time), my Kahr/AO 1911A1 GI condition three in a Don Hume IWB all day and night, never left my side unless I left the house. I got the night shift for watching the house, so a friend and I are just hanging around, chain-smoking Camels and watching TV, and I get up to go to the restroom.

The minute I got out into the hall, I heard a single, loud thump against our front door, and before I realized it, my cigarette was on the floor, my .45 was in my hand, and the sound of a slide racking was ringing in my ears. Everything went quiet. The TV was muted, I jerked to my senses and picked up the cig before it burned a hole in the carpet, and I flipped on the outside light just in time to see one of our big tomcats slam into the door again while chasing a female. I flicked the safety back on and said "False alarm." before returning to the room.

Scared me to death afterward, but I was downright robotic when the time came. I later found four bloody scratches in my side where my fingernails had torn into me on the draw. I never put my finger in the trigger guard.

How a cat made that much noise I'll never know. Turns out the guy got caught a tousand miles north of us the following day. Lucky me.
__________________
It's a one gauge...


That reminds me of an incident when I was in college. The school being in my home town I had to live at home and was asleep late one night when I was wakened by something shaking the window screen above my bead. The shadow looked like the outline of a man, so I jumped up and started loading my Win Mod 70 30-06. For some reason I wanted to get the magazine full and whoever/whatever it was left before I finished. Dad & I thought later it was a big housecat roaming the area.

No harm done & I was glad I did not shoot the window out, but I was scared that night.

A few years later I was a young AF officer going home on leave from Ga to La. In eastern Al. a carload of blacks in started pulling alongside me dropping back and repeating, then crowded me off the highway and got out of their car. My S&W K-38 convinced them that they had no business with me. No shots fired.

Elm Creek Smith
March 17, 2008, 11:06 PM
You understand about the dreams that wake me up, then.

You're welcome.

ECS

kingjoey
March 18, 2008, 12:34 AM
Unfortunately here in AZ it has happened to me way too frequently.

I had to draw my Makarov:
Once when someone in an apartment complex started taking potshots at us with a .22. I couldn't locate where the shots were coming from but they were hitting all around us. This was in '95
Once when some tweaker pulled a knife and started walking toward me asking if I "wanted him to cut me", at 20ft I drew and he dove over a wall into an alley. This was in '95

I had to draw my Glock21:
Once when I refused to buy a shirt from a crackhead at 2AM so he could "go buy some rocks", he told me to give him my money and came thru the window of my car. I pointed the gun at his forehead and he ran away. This was in '97
Once to stop a local crackhead who tried to blindside me on my evening walk back in '97
Once to stop a guy from jacking us in the drive-thru waiting to get our order (I was in the passenger seat and caught a glimpse of him in the side mirror fortunately) back in '98
Once to stop 5 thugs who had just tried to rob two guys at the gas station then proceeded to chase the two guys down the street right towards us (I saw 5 hoodlums running towards us, two with guns in hand. I drew mine, they turned and ran, and I ended up chasing them all the way back to the gas station where PD was responding to the initial call about the attempted robbery). This was in '00

I've had to trade shots with people in the desert twice, there was several years around '99-'02 where idiots were trying to jack people out shooting or camping in some of the common desert spots. I don't want to go into details, but it was unpleasant and very, very stressful.

I grew up in a gang-infested neighborhood in CA and was surprised how much more stuff was happening here in AZ. Don't let anyone talk you into moving here, there is an unbelievable amount of crime here and in certain outlying areas you may run into meth labs or Mexican smugglers who will kill you rather than risk getting busted.

I moved out of the Phoenix Metro area and haven't had any problems in over five years, but still have the vivid nightmares sometimes. Having to be in a situation like that is very troubling, it brings out some of the most intense fear followed by intense anger because some criminally-minded idiot forced you into a situation you didn't want any part of :(:(:( Avoid armed confrontation/altercation at any cost, it is probably the worst thing that can happen to someone.

kingjoey
March 18, 2008, 12:42 AM
Also to the OP of this thread, if used in defense it is a weapon/firearm/sidearm, not a "piece". Not pissing on you, but "piece" is a very casual term and not fit for a very non-casual topic. Some folks may take offense at what may seem to be a nonchalant attitude towards the topic based on how it was phrased.

PS: Thanks for posting this topic, it is important for people to know what happens out there

Seven©
March 18, 2008, 12:43 AM
Mall Ninja...:neener: Meet the Pizza Ninja!!

i work as a pizza driver and i have seen some really weird stuff.

that being said i have pulled and cleared 3 times..

the first time i was going to a BIG BOX store for a run in monsoon like rain. i pulled up to a handicap parking space where in the spot to my left a man with his infant kid was getting out of there van. i did not think much of it as van doors slide open and there was plenty of room for me to pull into.so while i was getting the order together he is standing under an overhang i figure hes waiting for his wife or something as i approach he says something i did not hear him due to the rain and figured it was another brilliant weather report like ( its really raining huh? ) so i chuckled and said yep! then it got weird he gets in my face and says you think its funny did you not hear me? now i am confused *** is with this guy so i say no what did you say?he then goes into this rant about how i almost hit him and his kid and how i should not park there due to a handicap person needing the spot.so i turn and look there is 4 more handicap spaces next to me and 3feet or so between my car and his van.so i point this out to him and tell em if he wants he can call my boss but he wont care i am the head driver and in the 4yrs that i have been there he will make only my 2ed complaint so have fun. i walk into the store feeling jumpy i hate confrontation and decide to finish fast and get out as he did not fallow me in so i did not know if hes waiting to confront me again or calling my boss. i make my sale and head out the door he is not where i can see him but his wife is yelling something at the back of the van as i get closer to my car i see he is getting something from the back of the van and yep here he comes waving a tire tool at me saying he is gonna kick my ass i reach and grab my beretta 9000s ( .40 cal ) and point it at him and tell him to stop or he will get shot. i then here his wife yell at him to stop being a dumb ass and get back in the car before hes killed. dudes eyes got real big said i am so sorry and got into his car and drove off faster than any mini van i ever seen

he later called my boss and said he was so sorry and was thankful i did not shoot him.

the 2 ed time i came to a apartment building and heard screams coming from the one i was going to and thought ah hell what am i walking into tonight i went up and knocked on the door and pulled up my shirt to expose the but of my gun on there blind side so as not to spook any one. guy shouts who is it? pizza i say a woman comes to the door bleeding for her head and begging me to walk her to the car. i say ok and as she is pulling her son out the door with her the guy comes into the picture big dude gotta be 6'5" and all of 300 pounds he screams you aint leaving b***h and grabs the kid by the arm i take two quick steps and draw the muzzle is pressed up to his temple and i tell him in vary clear terms let go of the kid and get on the ground slowly and he dose so the lady has turned a vary pale shade of white i give her my phone and tell her to call the police the police so up rather fast and arrest him and give me a pat on the back as they are taking him away he says you never had the balls i should have rolled you the cop who had my gun in his hand turned to him and showed him a round was in the chamber safety was off and the hammer was cocked and had he tried to ROLL me it would have been the last stupid thing he would have done. his girl friend said she was always afraid of him and what might happen when he got out this time i gave he my gun shops card and told her it was her choice to be scared or armed.police said it was gonna be his 5th battery charge.

last one three men where breaking into a shop down the hall from my pizza store ( strip mall ) and i got on the phone with the police via my blue tooth and gave them a profile of three from a distance and guided them in for the bust they never knew i was there watching them all three went to jail on drug and burglary charges..

ps remember to tip the pizza guy at least 10%

:cool:

kingjoey
March 18, 2008, 12:48 AM
Gawd I hope that story is completely fiction :(

highfive
March 18, 2008, 01:09 AM
Well only once had to pull it out, no shots fired. 4 guys walked towards my wife and me, yelling to give them money and the car. I showed them my taurus 627 with the barrel towards them. And my wife was showing them her bersa 380. they left very quickly.


few years before that, went out for a run, living in the country. While I was running i pass by a car. then when i was getting home the car was pulling behind me, 2 guys got out. began walking towards me. i said "can I help you?, they said "they wanted something to eat" this was really weird for me, so I just whistle and two big German Shepherds came running. The dogs stopped by me, told the guys you want food, I'll bring it to you here. Needless to say they left. Not gun related but probably what make me buy a gun.... if I didn't have those dogs at that moment, who knows, what would what happen

Elm Creek Smith
March 18, 2008, 03:21 AM
Seven©

After I retired from the Army in 1995, I too delivered pizzas for a short time. Late one night, I delivered one large pepperoni to the side entrance of a house. The guy who answered the door had obviously been drinking, grinned, and said, "How 'bout I just beat yer ass an' take the pizza fer free?"

I responded, "I don't think I'd like that much." The next sound was the hammer of my Beretta 950S .25 ACP going to full cock under the pizza box. It wasn't aimed at him, and he never saw it, but the sound was kind of unmistakeable. I don't really consider this a DGU.

The guy gave me a twenty for a ten dollar pizza, and I stopped by the house for a bigger gun.

ECS

tpaw
March 18, 2008, 10:26 AM
Werewolf states:

Closest I ever came was in the parking lot of a large mall near 9PM. 2 guys came towards me as I was walking up on my car. At about 20 yards away they seperated from each other in what appeared to be an attempted flanking maneuver.

It was summer and I was wearing an Hawiian type shirt. Lifted it up over my holstered gun, undid the safety and watched the two guys do a 180 and clear the lot.

I hopped in my car and drove away. No I didn't call the cops. What good would it have done?

Alerting the police would have given them the opportunity to give the area special attention by plain clothes officers who may have had the opportunity to question those guys and possibly prevent a mugging from occuring to someone else.

hfdcowboy
March 18, 2008, 11:31 AM
About seven years ago i was at the bank in my truck backing out of a parking spot when a car flew in between me and the vehicle behind me. I stopped and looked in my mirror shook my head and proceded to leave. I'm in line to get out of the parking lot when the car in front of me clears the car from earlier speeds over from somewhere and blocks my truck three guys got out quickly and headed for me with some woman yelling from the car at me. I got out with my .45 1911 at my side once i shut the door they saw the gun pressed flat aginst my thigh and did a 180 and took off got in the car and speed off with the woman now yelling go go go go go. I got in the truck and left and i am still puzzled as to what provoked them to come after me. Oh well situation negotiated with extreme prejudice.

woodybrighton
March 18, 2008, 12:05 PM
riding in my brothers car back from the range in Florida he stalled it while trying to get on the highway.
idiot in the truck behind decides the best way to resolve the problem is grab a tyre iron and start making threats:(
I've bailed out of the car with an SKS with a 30 rd mag on screaming.
not a good idea to threaten an infantry soldier
Hopefully big brave bubba learned a valuable lesson after he changed his underpants tosser

hfdcowboy
March 18, 2008, 12:14 PM
Sks Wow

.455_Hunter
March 18, 2008, 12:48 PM
Man, kingjoey, your experiences are scary!!!:eek: Talk about being a goblin magnet!

Any ONE of your multiple stories would be a once-in-a-lifetime experience for most people, not an annual occurrence. :uhoh:

I am glad life has been calmer for you in the past five years. ;)

Nightwing
March 18, 2008, 01:41 PM
Amazing stories. Really making me think twice about my recent motivation to start carrying openly while waiting to have enough cash to get my CCW.

To the people turning this into a pissing match.... Knock it off. I don't care if your ego is bruised, or you THINK that you are right. This isn't the place for that crap so grow up and drop the attitudes. If someone is being stupid then we all recognize that and don't need you to start an internet battle with them over how you're smarter and they screwed up.
End it now. Speak of it NO MORE. let it be, and let's get this thread back on topic.

This is a great thread and I don't want to see it closed because 3 idiots wanted to flex their balls on a message board.

siglite
March 18, 2008, 02:32 PM
To the people turning this into a pissing match.... Knock it off. I don't care if your ego is bruised, or you THINK that you are right. This isn't the place for that crap so grow up and drop the attitudes. If someone is being stupid then we all recognize that and don't need you to start an internet battle with them over how you're smarter and they screwed up.
End it now. Speak of it NO MORE. let it be, and let's get this thread back on topic.

This is a great thread and I don't want to see it closed because 3 idiots wanted to flex their balls on a message board.

If you're referring to Bruce and I, and our four day old discussion that hasn't been mentioned in over 30 posts, it seems the only "idiot" doing any ... uh ... "ball flexing" is you. We were done with that portion of our discussion last week.

If you're not referring to Bruce and I, please disregard this post with my humble apologies.

rainbowbob
March 18, 2008, 02:55 PM
Also to the OP of this thread, if used in defense it is a weapon/firearm/sidearm, not a "piece".

Kingjoey:
Much props for relating your harrowing experiences and good advice in your previous post. HOWEVER...this thread has already been visited by the PC Word Police in an earlier post. The first word cop deleted his thread with an apology.

cowssurf
March 18, 2008, 10:31 PM
Overall many excellent posts for which I'm very grateful. It's already been discussed, but if I've offended anyone by saying "piece," I'm sorry. On this topic, I would like to say that I don't think it's necessary to state the color of the BGs' skin. Stating that a "carload of blacks" confronted you could be interpreted as racist by some, or at the very least, offensive by others (I put myself in that last group). The color of someone's skin as part of their description tells me nothing. I'd much rather know how they were dressed or their demeanor. A black guy who's dressed up and carrying himself like a thug is equally threatening to me as a white guy who's dressed up and carrying himself like a thug. I truly believe that a person's chosen appearance and behavior is a lot more telling than the color of their skin. I don't mean to get off topic so far (or to be the PC word police officer), but I really believe it is an idea that we should get into our minds.

Please keep all these wonderful posts coming. Fantastic and very informative stories.

Katty
March 19, 2008, 12:25 AM
I used to live alone on a farm in Michigan in the country.

One night I woke to what I thought was someone coming in through the window! :eek:
I grabbed my revolver that lay in my nightstand trying VERY hard feeling somewhat numb comeing out of my deep sleep listening to find out which window he was coming through. I listened and listened. :confused:

Well, I realized it was my damn 18 pound cat snoring louder than any human could even muster. :cuss: I'm not kidding.

:rolleyes:

It made me take a real good look at being mentally prepared before a real situation may ever arise.

Needless that cat got booted out of bed that night.

kingjoey
March 19, 2008, 01:58 AM
Cowssurf, just to re-iterate, I wasn't pissing on you about it, but I know that a lot of folks will take offense at it so I was just giving you a heads-up. Some people would feel the term "piece" is akin to saying "bustin' a cap" as far as being a bit unserious about the matter. Then again, there is always the people that wax on about the whole clip vs magazine terminology as well. Guess there's no way to make everyone happy :D

The Ruckus
March 19, 2008, 07:39 AM
Mall Ninja... Meet the Pizza Ninja!!

Seven, I do not doubt his stories for one moment. My friend worked as in pizza delivery for three months, in which he was robbed, and forced to use OC spray on the guy. Lay off, besides his stories do not compare to the ridiculousness of mall ninja in the slightest :rolleyes:

hfdcowboy
March 19, 2008, 08:35 AM
Well, I realized it was my damn 18 pound cat snoring louder than any human could even muster. I'm not kidding.
I have one just to make you smile very simular. The ex-wife and i where in our bedroom doing what most coupoles do there besides sleeping :D . In the middle of all this we hear and crunching banging noise that sounds like footsteps very loud threw the house we jump up and she grabbed her .38 and i grabbed my .45 we are man to man cover down the hallway. About the time we got to the dinning room i hear this loud bang bang bang down the basement steps. By this time my heart is beating into my finger tips. Now here we both are standing naked at the top of the basement steps pistols locked and cocked we came down the steps me first now the basement is 1 big room and 3 smaller non finished bedrooms so no lights through half the basement. So room by room with flashlight and .45 the last room i am hearing noises from its dark as i shine the light in the last room. There is her cat with a paper macy's bag with the loop's around his neck the bag was tore up. He fell into the bag and threw the house and down the stairs. After almost shooting the cat we had a good laugh.

Rickstir
March 19, 2008, 02:45 PM
I guess I came close. I was filling up at a stop and rob and my wife was inside getting something. A guy I was watching walk up went in and started an argument with the clerk behind the counter. Really going off on him, arms flailing and all. My wife was approaching the counter and I went on alert, hand on piece. She evidently felt my vibs, put down her the stuff she was going buy and hurried out to the truck. I stopped fueling and paid at the pump and we got out of there. If he would have given my wife and trouble he would have bitten off more than he could chew.

primlantah
March 20, 2008, 12:30 PM
I knew some guys many moons ago who robbed a pizza guy in an intersection... pizza delivery CAN get hairy.

woodybrighton
March 20, 2008, 02:05 PM
don't actually think pointing a rifle at someone is the best way to resolve the problem.
but the guy was carrying a tyre iron would if he'd carried on butt stroked him rather than shot him .
probably confused the hell out of him by shouting "British army stop or I will fire"
not exactly what you expect in florida:D

cowssurf
March 27, 2008, 03:04 PM
Anyone still have a story to tell?

fatguynlittlecoat
March 27, 2008, 03:53 PM
Plenty of cases where a gun would have come in handy but we have this great law in Illinois that denies citizens from CCW permits.

I've been the victim of several road rage scenarios...let's make it 4...granted 2 out of the 4 times I flicked the driver off because they sucked at driving...but the other 2 were unprovoked.

Several other times when I worked in a metro area and had to walk to my car in a dimly lit parking deck every night...many confrontations with deranged, drunk and stoned bums...

Does anyone know if it's legal to keep an unloaded handgun in it's case underneath the driver or passenger seat? Someone give me the low down on this.

Prim..I delivered pizza for a year...and I know exactly what you're talking about...crazy dogs, drunkards etc etc...you see it all...

Flopsy
March 27, 2008, 05:54 PM
Does anyone know if it's legal to keep an unloaded handgun in it's case underneath the driver or passenger seat? Someone give me the low down on this.

I doubt your CCW prohibition makes any distinction but I don't know for sure. In any case I'd rather have a 3-cell MagLight than an unloaded gun.

Ltlabner
March 27, 2008, 06:03 PM
But planning that the other party will be frightened at the mere sight of a gun isn't so smart. What if you encountered someone speeding on drugs? (or just adrenaline) Then you might actually have to USE that weapon.

Criminals can sense fear and hesitation. Assuming they will all turn tail and run at the mere site of a gun is a HUGE mistake. They will read you, will press home their attack and will do you great bodily harm. Not to mention the drug angle mentioned here.

Carying a firearm with just blanks to be "safer" is actually pretty dangerous if you ask me.

scythefwd
March 27, 2008, 06:10 PM
fattguy,
In IL, you must transport firearms in a locked container that is not accessable to the driver. Anywhere in the cab is considered a nogo. You are also not allowed to carry ammo in the same compartment. You can carry your firearm in the trunk, and ammo in the glove box, but trust me, LEO's get very anxious if they find the ammo and no gun. That was the most unpleasant frisking I have ever survived (yes, I meant survived, I think he was trying to check my lungs for brass).

carnaby
March 27, 2008, 07:02 PM
I drew down on a deer once after I shot it and walked up to it without my rifle. When it started moving, I drew "just in case" :p

scythefwd
March 30, 2008, 09:00 AM
where was your rifle?

Tomahawk674
July 3, 2008, 03:30 PM
Does anyone mind if I bump this? I enjoy reading the stories and accounts that actually have a "good" outcome, which don't really seem to show up on the news much. I'm sure some people may have recent events they'd like to share here.

Rager
August 8, 2008, 12:49 PM
I'm a new member, but the story is of a good friend.

Ten years ago he, and his wife were visiting her dying son. They parked their car in a Cleveland Clinic parking deck, several floors up. It was late Fall, early winter, 7:30-8:00 at night, it was dark. The garage had almost no lighting.

As they made their way to the stairs, he was aware of two individuals shadowing them, separately, from opposite positions in the garage. When they reached the stairs he and his wife backed up against the wall. He drew his 1911 and chambered a round. Both individuals reacted to the sound, slowed down but did not stop.

There was a threat level, obviously, but my friend had no way to determine how dangerous it might be. He pointed at one individual and called out that someone was going to die if the two individuals did not disperse. After some hesitation they did.

Norinco982lover
August 8, 2008, 12:57 PM
Rager,
Thanks for posting your friend's experience! And welcome to THR you will love it here! :D I read THR 260 days a year (every weekday!) and enjoy every minute. See you around!

Prophet
September 11, 2008, 09:27 PM
Hope no one minds a bump. I read the whole thread and enjoyed it. These are the stories that people need to hear, not the bullcrap that the media is feeding them.

jad0110
September 11, 2008, 10:43 PM
About two months ago, my wife and I were sound asleep. We live in a quiet neighborhood, but I keep a S&W 686+ loaded with 38+P Remington 158 grain LSWCHPs in a GunVault beside my bed. I've got a 2 year old, so I keep it secured, but I can access it very quickly.

I was awoken by a rather disturbing thumping noise :uhoh:. I reached down beside the bed and had my 686 in hand in little more than a second. I lay still for a few moments and listened, asking my wife what she thought about it. She wasn't concerned :what: .

The thumping continued. It sounded like the doors to our entertainment center in the living room being jostled about :uhoh:. I got up and exchanged my 686 for my Mossberg 590, the magazine already loaded with Federal Tacticle 2 3/4" 00 buck. I took a careful peak around the corner of our bedroom out into the living room, shotgun at low ready pointed away from the living room, figuring that perhaps my little boy had figured out how to break out of his room and was rummaging about the living room.

I saw nothing.

I backed up out of my room and crouced down low to the floor and just looked around. It was silent for a moment, than I heard the "thump". My eyes immediately went up to the ceiling where ... my kid's helium baloon had come untethered and was being frapped about by the ceiling fan, which was left on hi.

:o :D

Whew. That was a relief. And man, was I exhausted after the adrenaline left me. Though it may have been a false alarm, I am pleased that I was able to cope well with the fear I was feeling. No tunnel vision, shaking or anything like that. I play scenarios through my mind on a daily basis, thinking how I would respond. Maybe that has helped.

Hopefully I'll never have to find out for real.

Though I knew it in my mind, I truly learned how much more comforting it is to have 12 gauges of whoop___ in your hands, vice a puny handgun, when your are not sure whether or not things are about to get ugly.

onebigelf
September 11, 2008, 11:04 PM
Yes. Fired warning shots first, then one to the chest.

I'm assuming you are not referring to military service although I swear, every one of those was self defense, too. (mostly;))

John

jonmerritt
September 11, 2008, 11:35 PM
It is a highly personal experience.

that says it all for me

NonConformist
September 11, 2008, 11:58 PM
Thrice, counting out duty use and Ill share one

Once a guy who damn near hit me while jumping into traffic. I honked as he was about to T-Bone me and he stopped.

As soon as I pulled into my neighborhood he whips around me and blocks me in at the entrance, i couldnt back out as it would be into traffic blind and couldnt move forward as he blocked me, had my sons in the truck from school

He comes out w/ a tire iron and starts threatening me and advancing toward me so i kicked my door open as I drew my HK and aimed at him between the door and A Pillar and commanded him to stop doing what he was doing or Id shoot

He decided to leave, called the So and filed a report

ShunZu
September 12, 2008, 12:02 AM
In IL, you must transport firearms in a locked container that is not accessable to the driver. Anywhere in the cab is considered a nogo. You are also not allowed to carry ammo in the same compartment. You can carry your firearm in the trunk, and ammo in the glove box, but trust me, LEO's get very anxious if they find the ammo and no gun.

OH MY God, what rumor mill have you been reading? Or what city in Russia do you live?

Illinois statute requires a firearm be 1) in a case designed to carry a firearm, and 2) unloaded. You ARE allowed to have it in the compartment of the automobile as long as it's in a case and unloaded. You ARE allowed have a loaded magazine provided it's OUT OF THE firearm... meaning, you can have a magazine loaded and legal as long as it's not inserted in the firearm.

It does NOT have to be "stored in the trunk" unless you are passing through East St. Louis or any other town with statutes that supercede Illinois state laws. Technically, you're not allowed to go hunting if you live in ESTL because ANY firearm transported in ANY condition other than completely broken down in pieces and unable to fire is against their city statutes.

Simply do a search here on THR and look for ISP -- who is an Illinois State Trooper who will confirm what I'm telling you. There's been MANY discussions on this topic here, and I'm stunned every time I read another uninformed poster that postulates rumor and myth as being fact anything close to resembling laws as written.

Obviously, scythefwd decided to post before doing any research on the subject, OR simply reading any of the other numerous threads on THR dealing with the legalities of transporting firearms within Illinois. Do your homework, dude... this isn't Russia YET. But it's not far from it. This is Obama land... and millions of Americans are waiting in line to vote for the guy so they can suffer the same inane laws Blago, Daley and he have instilled on us Illinois residents. Get registered and vote for common sense.

Gibbles
September 12, 2008, 12:09 AM
Never, but I have been in situations where I wish I had one.
I decided after that, to not be helpless again.

Zedo
September 12, 2008, 12:16 AM
Yeah, had some hippies fire bomb the job site I was hired to watch. 12 gauge, #2 goose loads. He'd just dropped some LSD.

Try to imagine being shot with a 12 gauge when you're high on acid.

sailortoo
September 12, 2008, 01:19 AM
Only once did I actually fire my weapon, and that was into the ground, on purpose. Walking barb wire fence on a steep hillside, covered in dense oaks (Santa Barbara, Ca - back, way back, in the good old days!). Some folks across on the next hillside, a residence, were firing a (.22 ?) rifle into the area I was checking fence - I heard two slugs ripping through the trees near me! I fired my junker (I actually made a replacement firing pin for it out of the sharp end of a can opener blade, brazed into the hammer) 5-shot .22 into the ground just to let them know there was another person near their "shooting gallery". Too distant to shout to them. Strictly an incident of carelessness, not a deliberate threat, and the firing stopped. Second "problem" was not a draw or brandish situation, but the fact my wife and I both were carrying gave us a "bit more backbone" so to speak - raised our confidence level. A road rage type thing, where a strapping young man and his lady, on a motorcycle, were playing games with each other - at highway speeds! - and all I wanted was to get as far away as possible. They took offence that I passed them, followed us to the store we were headed for, and proceeded to read us the riot act - intimidating to us old folks, but threatening? - hard to call. All ended OK, that's the main thing. It's the unexpected that we all need to guard against - and hope to never meet up with. An excellent thread - we all have so much to learn from the experiences of others that have had to face up to those unexpected threats.
sailortoo

toivo
September 12, 2008, 03:29 AM
Carying a firearm with just blanks to be "safer" is actually pretty dangerous if you ask me.

MUCH more dangerous. There is no "Plan B" in that scenario. Displaying the weapon immediately brings your assailant to the fight-or-flight point. If he chooses "fight," you're screwed.

neviander
September 13, 2008, 04:05 AM
and being substantially larger than the average grown man by the time I was 15-16 years old that has kept me away from the "tough guys" begging for someone to look at them cross-eyed.
I have the same situation. I was 6'6 when I was a junior in high school, but I've always been a pussy cat...unless someone crosses that line. I'm now 28 6'8 and 260 pounds; I've adopted the term 'happy warrior' :)

Speaking of weird midnight encounters...actually it was early morning, but the weirdness happened during sleep.

I was 23, my high school buddy and I were roommates in a house in MI. He keeps a loaded Remington marine magnum at his bedside, however, he comes into my room one Saturday morning saying 'dude come out here', just kind of stirring awake, I wondered what he wanted so early on a Saturday.

I follow him down the hall to our living room where there is a strange man sitting on our couch. "Do you know this guy?" Befuddled by the question and still kind of groggy, I look at the guy for a good 20 seconds and realize I don't..."no" I say.

The guy is just sitting there, normal looking guy, dressed like he had been out at a bar the night before. Well, my friend, obviously, was the first one up and he told me he had a clenched fist ready for the guy when he saw him in the house; my friend, at the time, was huge, benched like 400 pounds in college...so on, so forth.

Well, long story shorter, it turns out someone, unbenownst to the stranger, had dropped him off at our house and it just so happened that somebody left the back door unlocked. They dropped him off, drunk as all get out, and just left him; the guy was so wasted he didn't know where he was and just curled up on the couch.

Me, my roommate and this guy spent a good hour at our dining room/kitchen table talking to him, him on the cell phone, asking questions, trying to figure out *** had happened, to no avail.

Turns out, the guy was a nice guy, just got lost. The situation really wouldn't have been all that different had my roommate pulled his 12 ga., but there's nothing wrong with just showing your weapon...brandishing or no.

.380awsome
September 29, 2008, 10:27 PM
well i havent ,yet atleast

but when my father was in his 20's he was setting on this large rock which was a hangout place for his friends in a place you couldnt even call a "town" anyway it was beside the road and this old man pulls up for no reason and pulls a shotgun ,well my dad was setting on a colt woodsman with a big target barrel ,and says he would've emptied it in him right there,but he seen that the gun the man had wasnt cocked and he eventually left

wagoneer1019
September 29, 2008, 11:18 PM
speeking of relitive's gun useage some time after the civil war my great great grand father Porter was having trouble with a local hudlum named jesse he tried to take ( borrow) my grandfather's horse and g'pa Porter wouldn't let him. so jesse kept running his mouth about how he was going to kill him next time he saw my g'Pa Porter. well my grand father was a war vet and known to be great shot. on day he was out hunting in the hills of western Mo. and he happends to run into Jesse. jesse took one look at the navy colt on his hip and rife acrosses his sattle and tipped his hat saing 'good day mr porter.' G'pa porter tipped his hat replied ' good day mr james' (excuese typos posting from my phone)

Loosedhorse
September 30, 2008, 07:52 AM
Nope. Had a couple that could have gone there. Solved both by walking away.

Here's hoping the good luck holds.

LaVere
September 30, 2008, 09:17 AM
While this may be nit picking I don't like the use of brandish, brandished, or brandishing. To refer to drawing or presenting the weapon.
Two dictionaries define it this way.
1 : to shake or wave (as a weapon) menacingly
2 : to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive manner

While Number two isn't so bad is still shows a wild shaking and waving.

I'm sure no one here meant it that way. In Michigan and I suppose other states brandishing is breaking the law.
While you and I know what you meant. Others readers can only vision one waving, jumping up and down and yelling.

Words have vision and meaning choose carefully.

scrat
September 30, 2008, 12:23 PM
Never had to. Thank god however if i needed to I WILL

The Annoyed Man
September 30, 2008, 01:20 PM
Im pretty surprised to see these responses. I have always been told "if you're gonna pull, you better shoot" for legal purposes, but that's not what I've read here.

It would appear people are choosing to illegally brandish vs. legally shoot?

Does instant cessation mean we let them walk away?

BTW, my only story was someone dumb enough to walk towards his trunk threatening to shoot me and my friends 20 feet from 4 police officers.
"Brandishing" is a false concept. Here in Texas, it is not illegal to draw your weapon if you have reason to believe you might need to use it. Think about it. You're not just indiscriminately waving your weapon around. You are responding to a threat. You have to draw your weapon as part of that response. If the threat suddenly realizes that urgent health requirements demand his presence elsewhere, thereby relieving you of the need to aerate him, isn't that a preferable outcome? That's not "brandishing." That's common sense - both on the part of the "brandisher" and the threat.

BTW, praise God that I've never had to draw my weapon yet since I got my CHL, although I have investigated nighttime noises in my back yard with a pistol in hand. In retrospect, it was a foolish thing to have done.

bikerdoc
September 30, 2008, 01:29 PM
none of your business

skidooman
September 30, 2008, 04:02 PM
none of your business
Thanks for your completely useless post. You rock.

my kid's helium baloon had come untethered and was being frapped about by the ceiling fan, which was left on hi.

Haha, baloons and ceiling fans. The only time I have been really ready to shoot, it was late one evening and i was getting ready for bed. I was in my bathroom taking my contacts out/brushing teeth etc. and just as I turned out the light and opened the door I heard what sounded like a light shuffling across the wood floor. I froze for a few seconds, not able to see anything, just turned the light out to a completely dark house and no contacts. I am trying to make out a figure, or a position or something, but couldnt. I bolted into my room handed my girlfriend my S&W airweight and said if ANYONE comes through that door that isnt me, shoot until it stops shooting. I grabbed my 1911 and my streamlight and went back into the living room. I could still hear the shuffling and hit the light. Helium baloons... my roomate had just had surgery the week before and had his balloons sitting on the kitchen table and the ceiling fan was left on and they were shuflling against eachother and the flowers. Freaked my girlfriend out more than it freaked me out. Other than that nothing, thank goodness I havent had to pull it on someone.

bluemalibu
November 15, 2008, 08:50 PM
I was in Oakland, CA to be inducted into the service as 'Nam was winding down. Being that it was the last night of my freedom, I made the mistake of thinking that it might be nice to take a stroll around the city. ( 9pm in the evening ) I had just about completed a multiple-block circle leading back to my hotel, when I tried to walk past about 10 'guys-of-color' standing on the sidewalk in front of a business.

One of the guys kicked me in the shin in an attempt to trip me. Instead, it spun me around.

My right hand was in the pocket of my jacket, clenching a .22 auto.

I kept the gun inside the jacket, jerking the whole assembly up level with his head, and continued walking. (Walking backwards now, still facing them)

A couple of the guys made a half-step towards me, then stopped. On every face you could see the uncertainty... "does he have it, or is he bluffing???"

I got back safely to my room... and asked myself: "What the 'hey' were you thinking?!!!"

I

22-rimfire
November 15, 2008, 09:43 PM
I have never shot a firearm in a self defense situation. Hope I never do. There have been a couple of situations that I have been involved in that the firearm gave me a bit more self confidence and allowed me to move away from the developing situation without provoking it to a higher level. I don't want to fight.

Ignition Override
November 15, 2008, 10:25 PM
A guy in my company rides big motorcycles on his days off.

Back in the late 80s he and another rider stopped at a small diner in Bolivar, TN (east of Memphis).
Because this guy had not shaved in a few days, wored leather and was built solidly, the Deputy who was seated began to reach for his pistol when they walked in, not realizing how many white-collar types dress down a bit on their days off, or go slumming in cities. The Deputy quickly relaxed.

You guys have some alarming stories.

Lookn4Brass
November 15, 2008, 10:35 PM
Wow. Truth is alot more informative than fiction. Thanks everyone for sharing. Here's my experiences.

Circa 1991: Went to Taco Bell with two friends - wintertime. Observed one older male "visitor", apparently intoxicated, arguing with a teenage employee on duty, over the counter. Appeared to be over a girl. GREEAAATT. Situation escalates, "visitor" jumps over the counter, runs after the employee and starts pounding him back in the kitchen area. I couldn't get ANYONE to dial 911 or help the guy. One of my friends says to me " Are you packin'?". I promptly tell him to shut up, and tell them all we're leaving - NOW. I was carrying a Glock 17 and an extra mag in my overcoat, but chose not to pull it. While we were on the way to the car, the drunk abuser got in his car and drove off, all the while staring at me. I think he knew. Once we were in our car, I chewed out my friends for asking me about a gun in front of other people. Everyone left there alive, I didn't have to pull my gun, and a bunch of stupid employees probably lost some sleep that night. Glad it didn't get worse.

Circa 1995: Mobile, Alabama, late afternoon, early summertime. Took my sister to lunch on a rest break from driving to Florida. Stupidly chose to give a couple poor guys a $20 bill for some gas money, being kind. One of them says he wants to give me a hug, thanks, etc. Well, that's NOT HAPPENIN'. He insists. I back away, hand up, say no thanks, please "back up". He insists. He is told "I SAID, BACK... UP !!!". I put my other hand on the grip of my S&W 640 hammerless, under my shirt in a holster. He gets the message -he and the "friend" head back around a building from the direction they came. I escort my sister to a local LEO vehicle and give a brief report of the incident to Mobile, Al sheriff deputy. I am thanked and they head off to check on the whereabouts of the two drifters.

Well, not much drama. But that's more than I want. As time goes on, we may not be so fortunate. The world's not exactly getting "nicer". Stay safe, everyone.

wbond
November 16, 2008, 05:24 AM
Only once. I hit a 180 lb dog that jumped up to bite me. I could have legally shot him, but instead I cracked him one hit on the noggin with my Ruger SP101. That gave him a sufficient attitude adjustment.

There were a few occasions BEFORE I owned a handgun that I sure would have liked one. Like the time I had a home invader who claimed to have a concealed handgun, but never showed it. Also, the time I was carjacked.

No incidents have occured AFTER owning a gun, except the dog thing.

I bought some pepper spray after that. That way I don't have to hit or shoot, except as a last resort. Pepper spray is least injurious to an attacker. I don't want to cause permanent injury if a less permanent solution is available.

peetee32
November 16, 2008, 10:52 PM
About two months ago, my wife and I were sound asleep. We live in a quiet neighborhood, but I keep a S&W 686+ loaded with 38+P Remington 158 grain LSWCHPs in a GunVault beside my bed. I've got a 2 year old, so I keep it secured, but I can access it very quickly.

I was awoken by a rather disturbing thumping noise . I reached down beside the bed and had my 686 in hand in little more than a second. I lay still for a few moments and listened, asking my wife what she thought about it. She wasn't concerned .

The thumping continued. It sounded like the doors to our entertainment center in the living room being jostled about . I got up and exchanged my 686 for my Mossberg 590, the magazine already loaded with Federal Tacticle 2 3/4" 00 buck. I took a careful peak around the corner of our bedroom out into the living room, shotgun at low ready pointed away from the living room, figuring that perhaps my little boy had figured out how to break out of his room and was rummaging about the living room.

I saw nothing.

I backed up out of my room and crouced down low to the floor and just looked around. It was silent for a moment, than I heard the "thump". My eyes immediately went up to the ceiling where ... my kid's helium baloon had come untethered and was being frapped about by the ceiling fan, which was left on hi.



Whew. That was a relief. And man, was I exhausted after the adrenaline left me. Though it may have been a false alarm, I am pleased that I was able to cope well with the fear I was feeling. No tunnel vision, shaking or anything like that. I play scenarios through my mind on a daily basis, thinking how I would respond. Maybe that has helped.

Hopefully I'll never have to find out for real.

Though I knew it in my mind, I truly learned how much more comforting it is to have 12 gauges of whoop___ in your hands, vice a puny handgun, when your are not sure whether or not things are about to get ugly.

neviander, just curious how you secure your 590. trigger lock? safe?

BornAgainBullseye
November 16, 2008, 11:36 PM
This is why I got my liscense. I always wanted CCW just too lazy to take time off work to get it. I was working on a friggin VW on the lift when I noticed a car pulling up to the shop. A fellow co-worker was working on a Benz outside the shop door. A girl got out and asked "are you Westley" to my co worker. I guess he said "yea" she motioned to a guy in her car. He came out of the car like a rabid pit bull. Knocked him out and he was limp before I got over to see what was happening. But he was just pounding away on his head as my co-worker layed limp on the concrete. I had my folder open and Ice Pick grip behind my back. I told him to get off of him or I am going to step in. He looked at me and kept on pounding him like I was not even there. I thought for a split second about the reprecussions of counterattacking him with a knife hand to hand, and decided it was best to go to my car and get my pistol. It was only a few yards away. I pulled it from the glove box and chambered a round. When looking down the barrel of a cz-52 the guy finally stopped beating him. He then began to verbally threaten me. I re-assured him that If he made a wrong move I would put him down. This stopped his advance and put him into full retreat back to the car where they sped off. Guys next door at the carwash saw everything and got tag number and called sheriffs. They were picked up later that afternoon. co worker suffered cuncussion and had broken cheekbone. blood in the white of his eye for weeks. He later that month quit. he never told me what it was about and who they were.

ristmo
November 17, 2008, 03:38 AM
Well, I just found this thread earlier today and read all 8 pages... (BTW, I've never had to use a weapon to fend off an attacker, so if this is off-topic, please just skip over my post.) Hopefully this doesn't sound crass, but I found them fascinating and wished these accounts had wider circulation. Especially the pizza delivery one about the woman being beaten.

I'm not very big -- 6' 1", but not that muscular. I don't like the idea of confrontation, and I've personally tried to simply stay away from strangers or small groups of people loitering when I'm out alone at night in downtown Dallas. Of course, that would not keep anyone from instigating, but for the most part, I'd like to think I could quickly get to a well-lit location with people, or even outrun someone approaching with a knife, if need be. (I hear of many more stabbings here than shootings.) This may be a protective instinct, but I feel like much less of a target when I'm alone than when I'm with a girl. I guess my reasoning is that she'd be a bigger prize than the $20-40 I carry and the 2 credit cards I can easily cancel. They could have my Palm Treo, too, for all I care. The battery can barely hold a charge, at this point :neener:. That said, my motivation for carrying is far less to protect myself than it is to be able to defend others, which is why I find it encouraging to hear of those who've used their rights to defend not just themselves but others who were defenseless.

Also, I'm thankful for the authors who mentioned their specific locations. One of the posts mentioned a confrontation in the Oak Lawn part of Dallas, which just happens to be right where I work. I usually get off around 7-8pm, so it's usually pretty dark time I head home. I was actually chased there a couple months ago by a big "friendly" guy who wanted me to go home with him. It happens to be a very gay part of town. That time, out-walking him to a cafe was all it took, where he was then asked to leave. I never really saw it as much of a threat, as he was more interested in convincing me to give him a try than using force to overpower me, but the post was a warning that next time may not end so well.

The incident mentioned involved driving and a traffic light. Dallas has some very not-so-friendly drivers, and just yesterday I was repeatedly nearly run off the highway by a couple punk high schoolers. Interesting to consider how the situation may have played out had it taken place in the city, with stop lights.

ristmo
November 17, 2008, 11:49 AM
I found it quite ironic to see a headline in the newspaper this morning that right about the time I was typing that post last night where I said that stabbings are more common than shootings around here, one person was killed and four more were injured in a shooting less than a mile from where I work :uhoh:. I'm finding it hard to find a reason NOT to carry.

Armueller2001
November 17, 2008, 12:29 PM
"In IL, you must transport firearms in a locked container that is not accessable to the driver. Anywhere in the cab is considered a nogo. You are also not allowed to carry ammo in the same compartment."

You are wrong sir.

It's 100% legal to transport if -
Unloaded and enclosed in a case
OR
disassembled
OR
inaccesible

You also need to have your unexpired FOID card.

I keep mine unloaded in a case (w magazine) under the seat. Just fine.

bandreassen
November 17, 2008, 03:04 PM
To those of you who have shared your experiences, thanks.

I usually take the dog with me hiking, as he is protective and not friendly towards strangers. But the stories about the road rage and ATM incidences are enough to make my skin crawl.

Have applied for the CCW, but it can take up to 90 days to get it. In the meantime, I'll have the pepper spray handy.

hak
November 17, 2008, 05:47 PM
lurker turned poster..


my story goes to why i decided to arm/buy for myself.

up until this point, i would frequent ranges and rent all types/calibers to find out what i liked fit wis and what i could handle/aim with. but hadn't yet made the plunge.

one day in fall of '92, after getting off work at 11pm Friday night, at the behest of a buddy who was a 2nd year at Penn State, and convinced me to drive to state college that night for a Saturday football game (and normal PennState debauchery). it was brisk, but i found it easy to stay awake by dropping the top on my car (a '67 mustang conv.) the heater in those things kept the front split-buckets toasty, even at 0 degrees, but this was about 40 that night.

from DC went north on 15, then west towards state college.

somewhere along the line, maybe 322 or rt 22, no idea, i realized my 289 was getting thirsty, so as this road was 2 lanes (double yellow line) i didn't have to worry about 'exits' on a highway, just to find a station. which i did, or thought i did.

i saw a Getty sign up on the right (north side) of the road. i pulled in, place was lit up, normal. the gas tank on these cars is in the back under the decklid, so my car was pulled forward pretty far at this pump, one of 4 lanes parallel to the road. one of the downsides of it being so low is you're quite bent over prone taking off the cap staring low.

anyways, it was cold, so i left the car running, figuring this wasn't a flame hazard. i went around back and began filling up. i couldnt' get th 87 grade to pump, so i looked up at the convenience store/booth plexi and saw it empty and a sign "closed" hanging in there.

at that instant a van, going east on that 2 lane road, made a mighty 180 and pulled up behind me at speed, screeching to a halt i was confused and shocked, a bit deer-in-the-headlights at 2am - but when the guys poured out of the van, no grins in sight, i realized this wasn't a frat prank and that animal part of my brain fired and i jumped up onto my trunk like a madman and scrambled over the seats and down into the drivers seat, slamming the gas and power-shifting that poor C4 into Drive. between the squeal of tires on smooth concrete the sound of the metal pump-hose being ripped from the back of car was the first thing i felt, no recollection of feeling the scramble.

so... the fact that the car was running and the top was down is why i made it away unscathed. i kept reliving things. wondering what if the top was up or i would've turned off the engine.

i was 20, so that next year i bought my first handgun a Ruger KGP-101 in 6" barrel, full shroud. small enough grip for my hands, shroud kept recoil down, and like the hammer/cylinder lock methods. great gun.

if i had been carrying and the gun in the car, i think i would've done the same (sped away) not try a gun struggle, not sure if i could've worn on person in PA at the time. but enough reliving, the point was to not be as helpless /next time/.

anyways, the GP-101 did give up it's life for my mustang, had to sell it to fix head gasket blowout but did lead me to my HK USP .40, my current handgun of many years.

most recently, in early 2008, when cutting through DC, from Rt 50 Maryland, i came in to New York avenue, b/c i was once again low on gas. it's a very populated/lit gas station on a huge corner (bladensburg and NY, i think by the checkers) i was on fumes leaving a client site late at night. i chose the 'lane' closest to the main drag. side gas tank, right side car. i see 2 fellas on sidewalk and they separate, one goes around front, one around back. the one around back meets me sooner b/c tank is in back quarter panel of car, obviously. asks for a loan, literally. he says: "i'm thinking you are going to loan me some money". i have my hand on the nozzle, and lucky me, i see he's smoking. i pull nozzle out point it at his face and i ask him if he can ask his friend to not walk up behind me b/c i could get scared and squeeze the pump handle. An eternity about 5 seconds of nothing but cars wizzing by. then the usual, angry talk making me out to be the bad guy (why is it thugs seem to like to blame YOU for the crap they start) saying i was starting $hi+, etc, etc, etc as they walk away.

the maryland laws of my destination and the previous DC laws kept my USP at home that night, but at least the pump of 91 test came in handy (turbo car this time).

my wife is right, i should gas up early and often to avoid situations like these. my naive-ity at 20 for not thinking. and again at 36 for thinking a busy/active well lit area was enough.

thanks to all those who shared and the level headedness they showed by not using additional force when the deterrent effect did it's job.

Hak

bluemalibu
November 17, 2008, 10:23 PM
An incident just occurred that highlights how useless we are without a firearm...

I retired from working a narcotics detection dog as a federal LEO a few years ago, and have since returned to school to pick up a medical license.

Returning from campus along a farming road, four miles from school, and about a mile from any structure, I see a kid of about 6 yrs old being put into a trunk of a vehicle parked on the shoulder of the road.

I started slowing to whip the car around, when I realized that I wouldn't be able to do the kid a bit of good if I got blown away as I pulled my car up to the guy. ( It is of course illegal to carry or store a firearm within a vehicle while on a school campus, so I was unarmed)

I looked back and saw that the guy's head was facing the opposite direction, and so I drove my car off of the road into some trees, within site of his car. I phoned in my location and a description of the perp and vehicle to 911, then waited for the marked units to arrive. About eight minutes later, I see the vehicle pull away from the shoulder and flip around, heading back into the direction of the school.

When he had gotten about 1/2 mile away, I pulled out and followed him until he pulled into a convenience store parking lot.

I notified the dispatcher of his new location, and pulled up to a gas pump pretending to fill up. It took about 4 more minutes before four units arrived on scene simultaneously... one city, one county, and two state vehicles from different agencies.

We found two young kids in the backseat, but the trunk was empty. The guy says that the kids were his grandchildren, and for fifteen minutes he denies having had them in the trunk.

The kid's parents were contacted and verified that the driver was indeed the grandparent, and after getting the kid's story while off by themselves, the guy finally fesses to letting the kids play "Escape" from the trunk... by sealing one inside, and letting the other kid lay the back seat down to allow him to flee from his bondage.

Vagabond
November 18, 2008, 12:24 AM
In 1985 it seemed all the rage among crooks to block the roadway and rob folks. Toss a tire on a rim into the street in front of cars and they stop and turn stupid. Block the road by stopping in front of them, and they wait while they walk back to them to rob them...don't even try to drive around...:confused:

When returning from dinner one evening back then, I was driving my wifes car, with her holding our 5 year old asleep in her lap in the passenger seat. (I know, no comments about the lack of restraints please.) We were in our own development, a reasonably new and nice area, it was late. I NEVER drove her car, but this evening some friends wanted to see it (it was a new model and "cute"), so we drove it. I am not sure what the motivation was for the perps, but it could have ended badly for them.

As we cleared a bridge, a parked car suddenly turned on the brights behind us and roared after us. As the car passed us at very high speed, I hit the brakes fairly hard and stopped. They slammed on their brakes and slid to a stop in front of us - going sideways a little and blocking most of the two lane road a bit in front of us. They had been really flying! I backed away as quickly as I dared in the jeep-style vehicle, as they put it in reverse and gave chase. I told my wife to give me her gun (legally carried in her glove box as we did not yet have concealed carry permits). This was before Marion Hammer got the "shall issue" concealed carry law passed and it was impossible to get a permit in my county. I knew I could not hope to escape them in this car, so I put the rear end on a side street and slid to a stop. They were not able to make a turn at the speed they were going and slid slightly past the front of my car as they stopped, putting them to the left side of me and in front. A blonde teenage boy popped out of the front passenger window holding a gun in a two handed grip and shouted. "This is a stick up!" 20-30 feet in front of the left headlight of my car.:what:

I used to shoot NRA Bullseye for a awhile, and being left handed, the would-be robber was in the perfect place for me to shoot. As I drew down on him I could hear the crickets, the valve train noise - everything so clearly that it was almost surreal. My hand was steady - never was that steady at a match, but now it was rock solid. I could only see the face and hands of the "robber", so that's my point of aim. No choice but to fire before he does with only some glass and aluminum between him and my 5 year old and my wife. I am squeezing the trigger of the .380/1911 look-alike, but it doesn't fire. The hammer is back but- crap the safety is on, of course! I was used to my gun which was revolver and had forgotten! It seemed like an eternity had passed while all this happened, but it was probably a second or two. Being left handed I had to reach around the rear of the gun with my thumb to release the safety, and as I did the movement displayed the gun to the other car more clearly I suppose. There were 4 in the car and from the back seat I heard a young voice shout "He's got a REAL gun!" That word, REAL, saved the blonde boys life, of that I am sure. I had already decided I had to shoot, and in fact had tried to shoot. Better lucky than good for him I guess. Summary ending was no charges, no record for the teenagers. Wonder what they'd have done to my 5'4" 110 pound wife if she was unarmed and alone? They managed to convince everyone that it was just a joke and I overreacted...Did I? The officer who took my report said I was wrong for NOT shooting, but I did what I thought was best at the time. And I know what would have happened to me if I'd popped a kid with a toy gun. "NRA Gun Nut kills unarmed teenager" would have screamed from the front page.

A year later, heading up an entrance ramp to an interstate late at night, the car in front of me suddenly stopped and a large black male exited each side of the car and started walking back towards me. I had stopped 20 to 30 feet behind them. I brought up the Dan Wesson 357 I had with me, and stuck it out the window into the street lights glow. Suddenly, the need to block the road and engage me disappeared I guess, as both men spun on their heels and without a word or gesture walked back to the car and drove away. Another overreaction? Perhaps. But civilized men of good will don't block the road to ask for directions. No report was filed on that one.

Personally I am glad I didn't have to use it either time, and for the "training" I got from these incidents. I know how I'd react because it's how I did react. When it was over I was shaken and shaking, but only after it was over. The adrenaline was pumping and wouldn't quit!

I think the mere presence of the firearm, the ability to take responsibility for my own defense and the tools to do it, avoided me/us being victims and statistics.

I was willing to shoot when I thought it necessary, and now I practice with my carry gun so that "safety issue" won't be an issue. But I'm still glad it was an issue then. Just lucky I guess.

I will add that the police arrived after our second call to them to report the robbery attempt, 45 minutes after the first call. They misunderstood my wife on the first call they said, and besides, there was a homicide reported at almost the same time, and they had only one unit at that moment...When seconds count, the police are only minutes away....or maybe a few more than "a few".....no offense LEO's, but you can't be everywhere.

Nice thread, Not every legal act of self defense involves a shot being fired.

2 Below
November 18, 2008, 01:28 AM
First about 10 years ago. My wife and I were sleeping and were woke up at 3:30am by someone banging on our front door. I grabbed her S&W .357 Magnum and snuck downstairs. I peered out the sidelight of the door and saw a scruffy looking character with a crowbar. My guess was he was trying to break in. I yelled at him to leave but he kept banging on the door. I told him I had a gun and was calling the police. He hesitated about leaving until I showed the gun through the glass and then he took off like a bat out of h**l.

2nd time was last summer. Our son had been sexually abused by a neighbor and was threatened by being shot. We had a permanent protection order and were in the process of moving when I see the abuser walk towards our house. I went to get my loaded .40 semi-automatic and continued to observe the pervert walk towards our house. I told my wife to call 911 and I stepped out on the porch and pulled the weapon out from my holster. I told him in no uncertain terms that if he came any closer, his days were over. I can't tell you how much I wanted to pull the trigger but my senses got the better part of me. The police showed up and hauled his ass away as he was violating his probation.

tractorshaft
December 17, 2008, 02:13 PM
We were at my brother-in-laws in Essex Maryland for my father-in-laws 75 birthday party, a bunch of old people eating cake and drinking punch in lawn chairs. My brother-in-law has a little miniature poodle that was out loose in the yard with us when out of nowhere a big dalmation runs out of the woods behind the house and snatches the poodle up and starts ripping it a new one right at our feet! Hells bells! I jumped up and hit it twice with the plastic lawn chair I was sitting in and it did not even phase this evil spotted demon dog hell bent on shaking the little poodle into two pieces. I am almost never without a gun and had a Kel-Tec .380 with a clip of Cor-Bon's fantastic JHP's in it, I took a step towards the dog and shot him almost point blank in the ribs at a "best as I could figure" downward angle, that made him let go of the poodle, yelp once and turn to look at me, when he did that I shot him again right between the eyes and he fell dead as a doorknob at my feet, literally, kind of a bang-bang event. Everyone was sort of freaked out and several of the people not even ten feet away asked "What happened"? My father-in-law very quietly says, "Good Job Jerry, SOB would have killed that poodle" In the excitement of the dogfight they somehow missed two very loud gunshots in a semi-residential neighborhood not ten feet from the gun. The people with good hearing were the ones who failed to hear the gunshots! I thought it was really strange but I guess them being so upset at seeing this little timid dog that was just minutes earlier being tossed around in the jaws of this dalmatian from hell had them situationally numbed. After the smoke cleared I immediately asked , "Is Everyone OK?" hearing the affirmative I said "if its all the same to you and the cops happen NOT to show up, this dog does not have any tags, I will get a shovel from the garage and take him back where he came from. I don't have a Maryland carry permit and really did not want to deal with it. If it were a person involved I would have not had a choice in notify them but one less mean dog in this world would not be missed. That was one of the craziest damned things I have ever been party to.

We lived on Kodiak Island for almost 13 years and I was chased twice by brown bears, in the hundreds of times I went afield and stream this aint bad. I had to draw down my deer rifle (bigger deer guns up there for obvious reasons) a .375 H&H on one not twenty feet away who smelled the bloody pack of deer meat on my back, he yawned, snapped his jaws twice and barked at me before he tore up a couple of pieces of tundra with its claws before turning around and taking off in the opposite direction that my two "Buddies" ran, one friend did however say he "Had me covered" with his .300 Win mag from 100 yards away that is...I swear no matter how many times your "Buddies" say "BEAR!" up there it is still a very viable joke...I will try to take my friends more serious from now on when they tell me things :evil: PS: I would have gladly given up the pack frame but was scared to lower the rifle to do it, talk about your "Catch-22's"...

Bear #2 Was walking down the opposite riverbank when I saw a big mature bear on the other side, as is customary, I hollered to let it know I was nearby. Imagine my complete surprise when he ran straight and fast into the Buskin River directly towards me standing in 2 and a half feet of swiftly running water. It was in the piece of river right behind the Kodiak Island airport that he ran me out of there in my waders, back pedaling the whole way with one hand on my flyrod the other on a S&W .44 Mountain Gun. Sadly ADF&G ended up putting that one down after my wife who worked at the hotel nearby called to complain about it, aguhaaaain. It was the 3rd time in 5 days that this cranky old boar had exhibited very anti-human tendencies and was not willing to leave his fishing hole. People walked their kids and dogs daily right where this happened.

This one is scarier than the bear stories;

My Wife some seven months pregnant and I were in bed one Saturday morning when a strange van comes up our driveway and stops. We lived at the end of a 1/2 mile long dirt road that dead ended at our house and the water. Many times people are just cruising around and turn around and leave when they see that it is a private residence, having completely missed the signs advising them of such on their way in..I always give them the benefit of the doubt...This one was different, I hear the sliding glass door to our deck and dining room open, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? I tell my wife to stay put and be quiet, I grabbed that same old .44 out of the nightstand and quietly walked down the stairs, looking around the corner of the stairwell there was a foreign looking fellow and a little boy in the middle of my dining room looking towards our kitchen, a loud "Do I know you?" caused him to jump and turn around. About the time he turned to see me standing in my underwear with a bad case of bed-hair and the hammer going back on that .44 next to my hairy right thigh. When he saw that his eyes widened and I said *** are you and what are you doing in my house? He pretended to say he made a mistake and that he thought "His friend" lived here. I gave him a quick and not so polite invitation to get out of my dining room and off of my property, he and the little boy he had with him back-pedaled it out of my dining room onto the deck where they then turned around and ran for their van, when the van turned to leave I was looking to copy its license numbers...Eerily there was a towel draped over the plate, when I saw that I took off running after them fully intending to hold him at gunpoint until the cops showed, I pointed that .44 at the right rear tire slinging gravel and had the hammer so far back on a DA pull that the sear must have been hanging by surface tension when I decided against shooting at it, if that little boy of 5 or 6 was not in there it may have turned out differently....Scared my wife to death when I told her that the plate was covered up. I ran in and called the KPD and gave them all the info I had and they told me that a common ruse or MO for burglars to lend legitimacy to their presence will be to bring a small child along to sort of remove suspicion if you will. I can guarantee you if I were not home that day he would be dead, my wife is a non-bs individual and when I am not home she stays in the "Orange", she is of the firm opinion that dead people cannot sue you as readily as a wounded assailant can...This little seed was planted by none other than the Kodiak Island Borough DA who spoke at their "Shooters with Hooters" monthly tea...Luckily he only exchanged words with the more amiciable and polite Alabama boy half of the household :D

rondog
December 17, 2008, 08:15 PM
Nope, not yet. Only been licensed to carry for a couple years though, hope it never happens. I work in downtown Denver, so there's always a chance. Especially with a busy bus stop right at the entrance to my parking garage.

I was in a 7-11 one night in the late '70's when it was robbed, but I was unarmed and the situation wouldn't have allowed using a gun anyway, there were two terrified female clerks between me and the BG. I just turned back around to the magazine rack and looked the other way, he took the money and a 6-pack of beer and boogied.

In Syracuse, NY once, I parked at a curb once to go into a camera shop. As I crossed the sidewalk, I crossed the path of a very violent-looking black man, who hollered at me "hey, you white ************, I'ma gonna **** you up!" This caught me by surprise, of course, since there was no other interaction between us, and he was 20 feet away. I'll never forget that he had a "crazy eye", his left eye was looking way off to the left while his right was looking right at me. I stepped into the shop, and he kept rambling down the sidewalk. Only time I can really recall when I really wish I'd been armed, just in case. And that was 20 years ago.

shaggy430
February 25, 2009, 12:04 AM
I don't have anything that has happened directly to me, but when I was about 15 there were some guys hunting illegally on our family's farm. My dad waited for the guys to come back to their truck and told them that they had to leave and were not allowed to come back. One of the guys set his rifle across the hood of his truck pointed directly at my dad. He told my dad that he was going to hunt there and there was nothing he could do about it while his finger was on the trigger.

My dad stepped around to the same side of the truck as the guy, pulled a big Bisley Blackhawk .41 Mag from his side, stuck the barrel up the guy's nose and calmly informed him that he would not be hunting there anymore.

Needless to say they left quickly and never came back.

Defense Minister
February 25, 2009, 01:30 AM
Some friends of mine and I were out playin' around in the snow on a mountain top in the middle of the night when we drove to a radio tower that I had been to before. The tower is on public land, but there is a gate that doesn't allow vehicles to drive within 50 yards of it. Unlike times I had been there before, there was a travel trailer parked inside the gate. We stayed by the gate and were approached by a very friendly canine. Soon after, the dog's owner approached with one hand behind his back. My friend Matt was petting the dog, and was asked not to. When Matt said the dog had come to him, the unfriendly owner announced that if he touched the dog again he would "blow his hand off". At this point I walked back to my Jeep, retrieved my pistol, and racked the slide. My brother, who was also armed, said the guys eyes got as big as quarters when he heard that sound, but he stayed put. That was when my brother racked the slide on his pistol, which sent the fellow up the hill, away from his trailer, running a zig-zag pattern through the scrub brush. We immediately vacated the area, and are glad to be able to laugh about it today.

chuckusaret
February 25, 2009, 09:50 AM
After a day and evening of racing shifter karts at the F1 track in Miami my son and I headed home to west Palm. On the way we stopped near the old Jai Lai at a Burger King. Got our order and attempted to pull out onto the roadway but our exit attempt was blocked by a bunch of thugs that demanded our money and food.Lucky for us my son had his gun in his lap and after he showed them the wrong end of the 44 magnum they backed off and we left. I am sure they would not have been satified with just our money and food after they found out what was in our inclosed trailer. We will never go back to Miami.

leathermanwave
February 25, 2009, 08:34 PM
Followed a wounded bear into brush thru which I could only see about 5 feet, that gave me the adrenaline rush of my life.

ccsniper
March 1, 2009, 12:01 AM
never had to draw(not old enough to carry) but me and my buddies went camping, they went to go get some wood for our fire and left me at the camp making the fire. 4 guys all tatted up on 4 wheelers drive up see one vehicle and one guy and put 2 and 2 together. the guy starts to say "hey dude your going to... "
then my friends come back two with sks's and one with an ak, finishes his sentence "... have a nice day." and they drove away.

ACBMWM3
March 1, 2009, 04:20 AM
but I kicked it in the face instead.

i know its not funny when it comes to your kids, but the way you worded that sentance made me crack up. i just visualized kicking a dog in the face and what that would be like and couldnt help but chuckle.
Sorry :(

Kind of Blued
March 1, 2009, 04:31 AM
No.

I recently (last week) had my first "Ok, I might have to shoot this guy" situation, but it ended well.

A guy on the bus, who was apparently mentally-ill, murmured extremely violent things for quite a while. Judging by what I heard him say, I could safely deduce that he had either a criminal history or a tendency to imagine extremely violent situations in which he acted out violent acts.

I moved seats and he did also. I realized he was playing with a pocket knife, and still murmuring these things while seated no more than 10 feet away. As he stood up and stomped on the floor, I had a solid, unimpeded grip on my gun, out of the view of everybody on the bus.

He never even made eye contact with me, but that's as far as it went. Still far too close for comfort. I hope I'm never put in a situation that dangerous again.

Rager
March 2, 2009, 05:38 AM
-Kind of Blued-

Not to take anything away from your experience, I see a fellow with Tourettes in several spots around my town. It is an odd disease.

He makes mostly menacing mumbling, never had him appear to have any weapon though.

Kind of Blued
March 2, 2009, 05:56 AM
It definitely could have been Tourette's. People tend to associate loud outbursts more with the disease than quiet mumbling, but I could see it.

Either way, combining it with sudden movements and weapons is a bad idea. :eek:

Gibbles
March 2, 2009, 05:56 AM
-KindofBlued-
I woulda had my hand on my gun the whole time too...

Once I was at a store waiting in line for some free samples with my wife, a fellow comes by, makes eye contact with me then looks around and starts to work on coming in behind me, I would turn a little as he tried to get into my blind spot... while keeping his eyes on me... then I just turned and looked at him and smiled... he kinda got an upset look on his face and ran away... it was really weird.

Also, I have seen people that seemed to be on something and fumbling around with crap in their pockets following people around... I always just assume meth or some other drug.

Reyn
March 2, 2009, 05:49 PM
Have had a couple close calls at work. My brother shot a guy in the back at 40yards with a 223.

He had committed a robbery and had the clerk in a headlock using her as a shield/hostage. He had a fake gun to her head saying he was gonna kill her if they didnt back down. He was dragging her across the parking lot.

He came up from behind with his AR and was the only one with a shot.

I got there about 1minute later. He was using a TAP round. Guy lived but dropped when shot. He received 4 life terms. Also had 27,000 in cash from the robbery.

RSABear
March 3, 2009, 08:18 AM
Age 22 - 4 guys (I think under the influence) in a speeding car nearly hit my car on a neighborhood road just after midnight on a Saturday night. They decided to pull me over and got out of the car each holding a baseball bat or club of some sort. I got out of the car in my 80s Disco outfit and drew my CZ-75, they were off before I could chamber a round.

Age 23 – Defended my girl friend getting raped. Was the only day I ever left my firearm at home. Ever. I used the attackers' own knife on him and was very lucky to come out of it alive. Have permanent damage to my left hand because of a stab wound.

Age 32 – Was harassed by 3 guys while fishing on a beach pier, the fourth tried to steal my tackle box. CZ again stopped the crime and police arrested them 20 min later. Fired 3 warning shots which attracted the attention of nearby holiday makers, who came to help.

Age 35 – Fishing again, this time my son and I got bombarded by a group of youths throwing rocks at us. Then one pulled a pistol out and started shooting. I let the shooter have it with my 44 Mag. Fight was over in 4 rounds. Police was hot on the heels of this gang for weeks and they were wanted for various crimes, again a lucky escape because if we did not anchor the boat 20m from the shore we had no fighting chance.

From age 40 – Lucky few nights. I was able to hear burglars/robbers before they managed to get access into my house. 5 Million candle power handheld spotlight and Walther P99 chassed them off. To give people an idea, in my neighborhood we have had 6 robbers and 2 residents were shot in last 2 months (January - Fenruary 2009). We have 24hr armed security and access control to our road.

Southern Rebel
March 3, 2009, 07:27 PM
A few years ago (when we could not legally carry in TN unless the county sheriff felt you had a need), I took my 10 yr. old son to the state fair at night. Just to be on the safe side, I illegally stuck my Charter Arms 38 special in my pocket. The parking lot was crowded when we arrived and we had to park some distance away. However, I wasn't too concerned because the state fair was generally well-patrolled and a reasonably safe parking area.

When we decided to head home, we started back to the now pretty much empty parking lot and for some reason I had a very uneasy feeling about that deserted parking lot. I pulled my gun out and covered it with a jacket thrown over my arm. As we neared our car, this guy comes from behind one of the few cars left and remarks in slurred speech, "you are the guy that called the cops on me for drinking!" I replied, "Not me, guy" and got between him and my son. He continued toward us, saying "yeah, it had to be you".

At that point, I pulled the jacket back enough for him to see the end of the gun barrel and told him to back off or else get shot. He then retreated and his speech pattern was totally sober, apologizing as he retreated. I kept him backed off while we both got in the car and quickly left the area.

I have no doubt that he was intent on a strong-arm robbery and was using the drunken act to just get a little closer. He was within about 2 seconds from being shot and it would not have been good for me. At that time, TN had no exceptions to the no-carry law, even in self defense. I didn't care - to protect my son, I would have served whatever sentence that wanted to give me.

Thankfully, now not only are we a "shall issue" law, the law says you cannot be charged with illegally going armed (no carry permit) if you use a gun in legitimate self defense. How times have changed!

rainbowbob
March 3, 2009, 07:37 PM
I have no doubt that he was intent on a strong-arm robbery and was using the drunken act to just get a little closer.

Either that, or a chaser of adrenaline sobered him up quick!

SaxonPig
March 3, 2009, 09:01 PM
Several times, all between 30-35 years ago. Not necessarily in chronological order. Yes, some of my actions were very stupid. I was young and stupid at the time.

1. Guy took a swing at me outside a bar one night. His sucker punch just missed my chin and I knocked him down with a strike to the chest. He told me that I had better have a gun next time he saw me because he intended to kill me. I pulled out my 1911 and showed it to him. He nearly fainted.

2. Working in convenience store. Guy shoplifts beer and I chase him out to parking lot where his three buddies are waiting with the car. I fire warning shot into air (same 1911) and buddies drive off leaving him to run after the car. He dropped all the beer.

3. Try to break up fight in bar where I worked. Standing between the two morons to keep them apart one moron pulls a large knife. I grab 1911 in waistband (yes, same one) but don't let him see it. One step and he dies. He backed off.

4. Run off the road at 2 am by some lunatic on a lonely highway. Step out of car with S&W Model 29 in hand behind my leg. Nutcase gets out of car waving tire iron and screaming obscenities. I give him three steps and he dies. He took two and backed off. He'll never know how close he came.

5. Minding own business in strip bar. Two guys sit down on either side and start harassing me with insults and threats of violence. One showed me a snubby revolver in boot top. To this day I have no idea why they picked me. Got up and left. Went home and retrieved S&W Model 39. Don't know what happened to the 1911 on this one. Went back and sat across from idiots with gun in hand hidden under jacket draped over arm. They could see muzzle poking out from where they sat and eyes got very big. Told him to go for his piece. They both passed bricks... big square ones... before slowly rising and departing.

6. Back in convenience store late one night, armed robber confronts me armed with a 22 revolver. I put four rounds into him from the 1911 and cancel his ticket. Cops very grateful as guy was high on their list of dangerous perps they wanted to nail.

I may be forgetting one or two incidents at this point. All of this was a long time ago. I sold the 39 and the 29 was stolen in 1985. Replaced both of them eventually. I still have the 1911. This one.

http://www.fototime.com/B2AC5CFE94C79C7/standard.jpg

Carl
March 3, 2009, 09:09 PM
SaxonPig,

Number 1, 2, and 5 seemed quite unnecessary, especially number 5 where you returned to where they are. Were you hoping to shoot someone?

Kindrox
March 3, 2009, 09:29 PM
Yes, some of my actions were very stupid. I was young and stupid at the time.

I think Saxon is aware that some actions were unnecessary.

SaxonPig
March 3, 2009, 11:53 PM
Going back to the bar to confront the two guys who hassled me was just plain crazy. Yes, I think I did want to shoot those boys. At the time I was really hoping they'd be stupid enough to go for their guns while I had them covered. People who have known me a long time marvel that I survived my youth and never wound up in prison. Any illegal acts described above have long since seen the statute of limitations lapse.

SaxonPig
March 4, 2009, 12:01 AM
I just recalled another time I pulled a gun on a man. While hiking in the mountains I saw some yahoo retrieve a scoped rifle from his camper and start drawing a bead on a golden eagle. This was not only dumb but a violation of federal law for shooting at an endangered species (I assume he intended to shoot). I drew my 6" Colt 357 and leveled it at him. He looked at me out the corner of his eye and I assured him that if he shot at the eagle I would shoot him. He slowly stepped back to the camper, put the rifle away and drove off.

rainbowbob
March 4, 2009, 12:43 AM
I assured him that if he shot at the eagle I would shoot him.

Yeeeiiikes! I realize you're recounting stories of youthful indescretions...but you were gonna shoot a guy over a bird??!!

Rager
March 4, 2009, 02:30 AM
Rainbowbob, I think I mighta just shot the ignorant bastard. I'm kidding but that is the first thought I had.

4Freedom
March 4, 2009, 02:33 AM
Is it legal to shoot an animal poacher? I know somebody needs to protect endangered species from these Pieces of Sh*@.. But, I wonder what the legality would be of putting a bullet in his head when he was not a threat to yourself? Would this be any different than shooting a man you see stealing from a store or committing any other type of criminal offense, that is non-threatening?


. Back in convenience store late one night, armed robber confronts me armed with a 22 revolver. I put four rounds into him from the 1911 and cancel his ticket. Cops very grateful as guy was high on their list of dangerous perps they wanted to nail.

WOW.. What an experience, can you go into this one a little bit more? How did you manage to pull your gun out fast enough and not get yourself shot? What tactics did you use to confuse him?

SaxonPig
March 4, 2009, 09:52 AM
Just after handing over the cash with my left hand (my right hand had already grasped the pistol stashed behind the magazine rack at the register) a car pulled up in front of the store. The criminal lowered his gun hand to conceal the gun from view as he turned his head to look at the car. I took that opportunity to put three rounds in his chest and a fourth in his kidney as he bolted out the door. He ran about 100 feet and collapsed. The people in the car were pretty freaked out, let me tell you. I was really afraid the guy might start shooting me and all those other witnesses.

Like I said, the cops pretty much lined up to shake my hand. The dead guy had committed numerous armed robberies and had become increasingly violent, sending his last victim to the hospital after pistol-whipping him in the face. Cops said it was only a matter of time before he killed a victim.

BTW- The dead guy's brother started calling the store threatening me for shooting his brother. I wasn't there as the store manager had fired me for violating company policy by resisting the armed robber. My former coworkers called to tell me of the threats and and I instructed them to give the idiot my home address the next time he called. I said to tell him I have something for him when he gets here. One worker called me back in a few days to say the guy had called and he had told him exactly what I said to tell him. Last we heard from him.

Whole family of cowards, I guess.

4Freedom
March 4, 2009, 10:34 AM
WOW Saxon.. Thanks for sharing this event.. Not many will share with such great detail, a dangerous standoff. For all your heroic deeds, they kick you in the teeth? That sucks .. THey should have given you a medal of honor. . You should have got at least 1 month paid vacation and some fancy bonus for saving the store and upholding its integrity. Robbers thnk twice about robbing stores where others have ended up in a morgue the next day. As far as not resisting, if you know you can kill the SOB, why not? Its unpredictable what they can do, you are at the mercy and good will of a low-life piece of garbage.

Well at least the police thanked you. Its good to get some respect from the law. Had you done this where I live, I don't know what they have done. You probably have to go fight it out in civil court.

His brother threatened you for defending your life? How sick. I think you handled it the right way. Although for me, I would have reported it to the police. It would have looked good in court that the brother threatened your life if they tried ever making a civil case against you, which is what they do these days.

Reyn
March 4, 2009, 12:30 PM
Is it legal to shoot an animal poacher? I know somebody needs to protect endangered species from these Pieces of Sh*@.. But, I wonder what the legality would be of putting a bullet in his head when he was not a threat to yourself? Would this be any different than shooting a man you see stealing from a store or committing any other type of criminal offense, that is non-threatening?

Absolutely not legal. Not legal to shoot someone just for stealing or any non life threatning situation.

SaxonPig
March 4, 2009, 12:48 PM
Guy was a criminal in the act of commiting a felony. He knew I was a witness. He had a high powered rifle in his hands. Had he shot the eagle I would have feared for my life.

rainbowbob
March 4, 2009, 01:42 PM
Had he shot the eagle I would have feared for my life.

Seriously? And you would have opened fire? Unless he was turning toward you with the weapon, you probably would have been prosecuted for murder (if there were any other witnesses).

Leanwolf
March 4, 2009, 02:30 PM
4 FREEDOM - "Is it legal to shoot an animal poacher? ... But, I wonder what the legality would be of putting a bullet in his head when he was not a threat to yourself? Would this be any different than shooting a man you see stealing from a store or committing any other type of criminal offense, that is non-threatening?"


Although somewhat off-topic, there are several issues within the above quote.

Just to gun someone down for swiping some chewing gum from the local convenience store, or killing someone who points a rifle at some protected bird/animal out in the boonies, is more than likely going to get the shooter a long time residency at the State slam.

There is in law, however, "Citizen's Arrest."

First, the Penal Code(s) in each State vary on defining "Citizen's Arrest," so I'll generalize a bit.

Generally, any citizen who witnesses a misdemeanor or felony being committed , can take that person into custody, thereby making a Citizen's Arrest. The Citizen can use whatever force is reasonable to make that "arrest." (It better damned well be "reasonable force" to a D.A. and perhaps a jury.)

If a person whom you saw committing a misdemeanor or felony resists you taking him/her into custody, you can then use whatever reasonable force necessary to complete the "Citizen's Arrest."

But -- big caveat here -- you can find yourself in either a position of being arrested by the police for using too much force, and/or being sued to the hilt by the person whom you "arrested" for false arrest, unreasonable force, etc.

(Remember, in many instances, it'll be your word against his/her.)


Citizen's Arrests are legal... but to do so is to tread in a minefield without a detector.


If anyone is interested in the legalities of Citizen's Arrest, do yourself a favor and read the Penal Code of your State regarding same.


L.W.

SaxonPig
March 4, 2009, 04:15 PM
We all have to do what we think best.

Anyone committing a felony with a rifle in his hands in my presence is in danger of being shot.

Sorry if anyone disagrees.

PS: The stealing gum example is ridiculous. Stealing 25 cents worth of gun isn't a felony. Now, if you steal gum with a rifle in your hands, that becomes armed robbery and a violent crime. I have no use for violent criminals.

Yeah, right, like I'm going to yell "citizen's arrest" at a guy with a RIFLE IN HIS HANDS. Some of you seem to be missing the RIFLE IN HIS HANDS part.

Proud Boer
March 9, 2009, 07:38 AM
#1
Proud Boer
New Member



Join Date: 03-05-09
Posts: 3 Actual Shootout against armed killers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Those of us who enjoy firearms in general and handguns in particular usually spend a lot of time practicing for the day we need to defend our loved ones and ourselves against attack. I am one of those individuals who have been fascinated by firearms and shooting since 10 years old, starting with my first BB gun. Since 1983 I've been a regular pistol and revolver shooter, competing over the years in Cowboy Action Shooting, Defensive Pistol Shooting as well as Practical Pistol Shooting.

Cowboys, Boers and the history of the rugged individuals who have invented our great modern world, have always interested me. In South Africa violent crime is high and therefore I am grateful for my mindset of self-reliance as I now live in the heart of the current day "wild west".

On the 8th of May 2008, I faced off a gang of three armed goblins who in the weeks preceding my attack, had robbed and killed numerous victims. These scumbags attacked me in front of my wife and daughter in the drive of my house at 20h00. I had just returned from a formal business function to launch the head office of a new dental insurance in Cape Town and was wearing a tuxedo and therefore only carrying single action .22 Magnum N.A.A. revolver. They wanted my house keys as well as the keys to my new Mercedes Benz SUV which I was driving. With their firearms pointed at me, I drew mine (thank God for years of practice), and shot the apparent leader of that gang in the chest - he screamed like a stuck pig and staggered backwards. The first thing I did was run for cover. As the other two were only about 20 feet away from me, bullets rained down on me as I hid momentarily behind a tree in my drive. In this exchange I was hit in the left arm (but actually felt nothing) and I returned fire hitting the first one of the two remaining goblins in the groin. He ran away to the getaway car standing in the road, shouting and crying and shooting into the air like a drunk Mexican officer during the Battle of the Alamo. There was one left besides the one who I shot first still staggering around. I gave him another round to the chest and he disappeared to the getaway vehicle, fatally wounded as I was to find out in the days that followed. The last one had to run past me to get out of my drive and being the coward that these scum normally are, couldn't quite muster the courage. As I pointed my revolver and fired at him, the revolver blew up in my hand and I had no choice but to take him on bare handed. I smacked him to the ground by punching him in the face as the fact that I was now unarmed seemed to give him some courage. As he fell, he pulled off a shot and hit me in the right arm. He then turned and ran as he realised I was ready to fight to the death and he wasn't feeling well with a smashed nose.

My wife, at this stage, had taken my .45 A.C.P. out and passed it to me through the window, giving me clear instructions to finish them off. They got away only with my bullets in them and in pain and I was lucky enough to win the fight.

What did I learn from this?

1. Always carry a gun no matter how small it may be. Even when the last thing you expect is to be attacked, don't let your logic of statistical probability of not being in mortal danger lull you into a false sense of security.

2. Remember that in a gun fight - cover is king!

3. Practice regularly to allow for the advantage of competent surprise,
AND
most importantly, if you want to win a gun fight, the most important factor is resolve and commitment. You have to have the inner courage to decide in a split second that you are going to win the fight irrespective of the consequences and then carry out that plan with determination and courage that surprises and stuns your "would be" attackers.

I hope that the above sheds some light and gives some valuable insight into a real life gun fight. I would like to hear from others on this forum who have experienced the same or similar situations.

Proud Boer.

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?art_i...lick_id=13&sf=

Claude Clay
March 9, 2009, 11:20 AM
incredibly presumptuous of you--never occurred to you he was using the scope on the rifle to observe the eagle? i have often done this when afield--never at a human of course. had it been me in that field with you pointing a gun at me i would have left also; gone to the nearest police man and sworn out a complaint against you. thats what i think i would have done 30 years ago. today, i would kneel and give you the opportunity at rifle point to disarm or demise.
"" Anyone committing a felony with a rifle in his hands in my presence is in danger of being shot."" a felony only after he shoots.
i hope you are seeing a difference between looking and shooting.

rondog
March 9, 2009, 02:46 PM
Proud Boer----

Good story, thanks for sharing! I hope you ALSO learned that the N.A.A revolver is a p.o.s., and you never buy another one!

As I pointed my revolver and fired at him, the revolver blew up in my hand and I had no choice but to take him on bare handed.

P90Puma
March 9, 2009, 10:03 PM
Great thread, unfortunately you cannot carry up here and the one time I had a handgun shoved in my face, I couldn't do anything about it.

Had I been carrying, I think the outcome would be the same based on the situation but you can't help but think of other situations like these and wish you could carry.

catspa
March 10, 2009, 12:12 AM
Hey, all.

First post, after reading the entire thread. Thank you to those who shared personal details, as I read your posts I was forming the mental picture of your situations and thought about some things I perhaps hadn't considered before.

Like some previous posters, I worked night shift at a convenience store/gas station/deli in a questionable district during college. It was great because after about 2:30am there were no customers and I could study undisturbed until about 5:30 or 6. Due to a temporary lapse of sanity, I didn't take a gun to work, but I kept my 28oz framing hammer under the counter in case of trouble (I worked construction in the summers).

Early one morning a dude with a pockmarked face came in the store and just walked around looking at things for a few minutes. Just when I was thinking this is kinda weird, he gets a sixer of beer and walks up to the checkstand. I relaxed and went behind the counter just as he pulled a pistol and stuffed it up in my face, and said, "Come out here and lay down on the floor." So I did, and he went behind the counter and cleaned out the till and the reserve money and about 50 bucks worth of cigarettes in less than 30 seconds, obviously he had inside info.

Anyway, I just knew he was gonna kill me when he left, because he wasn't wearing a mask and why leave a witness? But he came out from the counter and said, "If you get up before 5 minutes, I'll run back in here and kill you." I thought, Yeah right, you'll be long gone as fast as your legs can carry you. So I waited for about 15 minutes, just in case, and then staggered to lock the door and call 911. Then I called the manager and told her about it.

When the cops got there, it was pretty obvious that I had pissed myself. The canine cop was pretty cool, he said, "Don't worry about it, happens all the time" and another officer took down the particulars. After a while the manager got there and I told her I'd just as soon not be there the next night when it occurs to him to rub out the only witness. So she paid me up and I took my framing hammer and went home, but didn't sleep good for about a week.

Regarding the carrying of an unloaded gun: many years ago, a co-worker showed me a used Charter Arms .38 snub he had just bought for his wife to carry. She was a nurse at a downtown Seattle hospital and another nurse had been assaulted in a parking area the week before.

I looked it over and said, "Great! What does she use for duty rounds?" He said, startled, "Oh, she dislikes guns, she's just going to carry it empty to scare an attacker."

My blood turned cold, and I begged him not to let her do that. "Look here, from the front. Any criminal can see it's empty by looking in the holes. And then he's gonna take it away and beat her with it, probly rape her, and then he's gonna go out and commit more crimes with her gun. Bad deal." I told him I would teach her to shoot, but only if she settled in her mind that she could do what was needed in an emergency.

He talked it over with her and she wanted no part of shooting or having it loaded, and he told me, "Total waste of 100 bucks." I gave him a Franklin for it right there, and I'm convinced I did them both a good deed.

Parker

akodo
March 10, 2009, 11:57 PM
"Total waste of 100 bucks." I gave him a Franklin for it right there, and I'm convinced I did them both a good deed.

It was a good deed.

ZABodie
March 14, 2009, 08:40 PM
Greetings to all you fine folk (and others ;-) ) in this forum.
More about me and my experiences later I suppose.
Had a link to this thread mailed to the LEO site I am a member and moderator of and, after reading a specific reply felt compelled to post:

The post by Proud Boer is factual.
I work in the South African Police and the area he resides in (Constantia) is served by three (3) Police Stations (Kirstenhof, Diep River and Wynberg).

All three stations responded to this incident at the time.

I think that before people start making comments of FAKE and UNTRUE they should make an effort to verify the story first.

Another poster wanted to know if Kel-tec's were available here (South Africa) // depends on if somebody imports it - if the motivation is sufficiently well prepared it used to be that one could have any weapon licensed - not so anymore with extremely restrictive legislation introduced to support the ideals of the Gun Free Society. This has had the effect of ensuring that the number of armed, law-abiding citizens is reduced very quickly and the number of illegally armed goblins increasing exponentially.

I shall post again pretty soon.

Regards.


Bodie.

GaSheepDog
March 15, 2009, 04:44 AM
Hello all, joined a few months ago but I've had so much going on in my life I kind of forgot about the site until now. I'd like to share my story also and welcome any feedback, public or PM.

I've lived in my house for 15 years. When I purchased it, I was fairly new to town and it belonged to my supervisor at the time who was moving away. One thing led to another and I bought it. It's a quite nice starter home but "on the wrong side of the tracks".

Most of my neighbors were retirees and it has always been quiet in our immediate neighborhood. Well over the last fifteen years, I've had a few neighbors move away and a few passed away. Unfortunately, their houses became rentals and that's when a lot of problems started.

What made me wake up to the fact that I needed protection was when one night about 5 years ago, I was at home watching TV. There was a knock at the front door around dark-thirty. All of my family and friends always come to my side door so I was already suspicious but I had a very protective german shepherd that was always at my side. On this night though, she was asleep in another part of the house, maybe because I had the TV volume loud.

When I cracked open the front door slightly, there were two guys on my front porch that I've never seen before. The guy right at the door (on the other side of a closed screen door), states that they need a few dollars for gas if I could spare it. I told him hell no and get out of my yard. Apparently the GSD had not heard anything yet otherwise she would have let them know they were not welcome.

Anyway, as I go to shut the door, he snatches open the screen door. It was "locked" so it made a loud noise when he opened it. THAT alerted my dog. Just as he started strong-arming the front door open, she tears around the corner coming straight at them. They do a 180 and haul ass out of the yard while I grab her collar to keep her from chasing.

It all happened so quick that I didn't even think to call the cops right away. I sat down and started processing what just happened and what COULD have just happened. I thought about calling the cops but, honestly, it was dark, I never opened the door enough to get a clear look at them so I wouldn't even be able to give a description.

To keep this post brief and on topic, flash forward to this past October. It had just got cool enough to turn the AC off and enjoy the cool night air. I'm married now and me and the missus are watching tv when we hear very loud footsteps running what sounded like down the street. Due to some recent vandalism to my company vehicle, I had installed wireless motion sensors in the yard along with some previously installed motion flood lights.

Well, right as I heard the steps, the motion alarm goes off and flood lights come on all at once. I now have two german shepherds and they've (unfortunately) become all too familiar with the next series of events: the alarm buzzes, I grab the gun that I keep in the cushion of my chair and get up. That's their cue that it's time to work. Their hair is already standing up and they're barking as I crack open the side door and clear the carport. I see light from a flashlight in my backyard so I release the dogs.

They immediately run to the backyard and have someone cornered so I run out after them. I make out shapes of two people in the one corner of my yard that the flood lights don't hit and the dogs are about 10 feet away barking like mad. I flick on the lasermax and draw while yelling "FREEZE...WHO'S IN MY BACKYARD!??!".

The next part is something that has caused quite a few nightmares since. The reply back is "it's the police....call off your dogs". I call them off and get them back in the house. I'm almost on my knees trying to lock the door. My wife is freaking out asking what's going on. I told her something very bad could have just happened.

It turns out the cops were chasing a perp who apparently went thru my yard and jumped the rear fence. Within a few minutes, the neighborhood is surrounded and a helicopter is flying over. After a few more minutes, they apparently have moved to another part of the neighborhood. Once I was certain of that, I went back out again without the dogs and cleared my basement.

When I got back inside I almost completely lost it. All I can say is the dogs provided enough of a distraction that they didn't see my pistol and that red dot center mass on one of their chests. Had they shot my dogs, I would have likely fired first before announcing my presence and I'm quite sure I would have been gunned down in my back yard. Believe me, I have completely re-thought my attack plan for the future.

Flash forward again to three events that have happened in the LAST TWO WEEKS.

The first: I am very much a dog person. My co-workers have called me "the dog whisperer" long before the show was on tv. I encounter customer's dogs all the time on my job and I just have a way with them somehow. Well, I awoke one night to my neighbors dog giving an alert and peeped out of my bedroom window so see a shadowy figure standing at my mailbox around 1:30 am. As I'm watching this guy, I see him spin around in circles like 2-3 times like he's a friggin ballerina or something then walks about 10', stops, and does the same thing. He kept walking from one side of my property to the other doing weird stuff like that. I wake up my wife and tell her to call 911. The moon was bright so I turn OFF the motion lights to conceal me as I slip out the side door, trusty G19 with ls in hand but concealed behind my leg. The guy isn't on my property and I intended to keep it that way. I asked him what he was doing in front of my house at 1:30 and he stated that he used to live around here. I let him know that he needed to get away from my house and he did it again....spun around like 2-3 times and walked a few feet and repeated his little "dance routine" again...but he did actually make it down the street and around the corner when the cruiser showed. I holstered the pistol in my shorts pocket and advised the cop what happened and went back to bed. About thirty minutes later my bedroom window is lit up and I get up to see the cop is back. I walk out to meet him and he informs me that the guy, along with his other family members, is mentally ill and that I was lucky it was him and not his brother as this guy was pretty harmless but the brother would have tried something. I showed my CCW and patted my pocket and told him I wasn't too worried about that. We stayed out there talking about the neighborhood problems for about another 30 minutes and then I went back to bed.

TWO DAYS LATER: I'm off work for the day and headed to pick my wife up from her job. Normally, I carry everywhere but for some reason didn't that day. When I got a few miles down the road, I thought about it had had a weird, naked feeling about leaving it but it was a quick trip. One the way back, we stop at a gas station to fill up and grab a carton of smokes. My wife buys the smokes while I pump. About the time she makes it back to me, 3 kids...maybe 10-13 years old run across the highway and run right to us. The older looking one asks if I have a dollar. My wife moves behind me. Being completely un-threatened by three munchkin thug-to-be's, I said sure I've got several dollars but he can't have one. Then I interject that maybe his mama shouldn't have blown all of her welfare money already and to get the hell away from us. Two start to walk right away but one just stands there. I'm giving him the stare down of his life and then take a step towards him. He pulls a pistol from his waistbelt and immediately drops it. THANKFULLY, the second he pulled it out, the orange tip is visible and I knew it was a toy. I run right at him but he grabs it back up and takes off down the street to catch up with is buddies and they don't stop. I didn't even carry my cell phone or I would have had them picked up. I can only imagine what would have happened if my wife had been alone (she doesn't feel comfortable carrying). When I talked to her about it later, she said she wasn't too concerned with me there plus she had OC spray in her hand already.

Which brings us to LAST NIGHT: Again, I awake to dogs barking, and I mean really going crazy, and I can't place the barks as all being my neighbors dog. I grab my shorts and the gun and walk out to investigate. HOLY CRAP, there's a pack of about 6-8 pit bulls right in front of my house. They completely caught me off guard as I had looked out the windows first for people but didn't look down expecting dogs in the yard. I think i did like 3 backflips to get back inside and called 911 yet again. The operator stated something to the effect "well there's not much we can do this time of night". I immediately told him if they didn't send someone that their switchboard was about to light up from my neighbors calling to report gunshots. I watched thru the window as the pack made its way back to the street and started down the street. I then noticed my neighbors at the end of the street apparently coming in from a late night trip and yelled at them to get inside. They saw the dogs and ran in. I was so tired from lack of sleep for two nights that I just went back to bed.

Before anyone states the obvious: yes we know we should be moving out of here and have plans to do so but I need about a year first to get things in order first. Plus, I have Georgia's Castle Doctrine on my side. Something good has come from all of the excitement - my wife now says she's ready to carry. I'm so happy she's finally taken the blinders off. To celebrate, I'm adding a Mossberg and two P3ATs (his/hers) to my growing collection.

Sorry for any typos or ramblings. Since I spent most of the day napping, I've been up late but wanted to type this out before I went to bed.

rainbowbob
March 15, 2009, 05:43 AM
I'd like to share my story also and welcome any feedback...


GASheepDog: So here's my feedback.

You recounted four incidents in which you opened the door and exposed yourself to danger unnecessarily in my opinion.

From what you have described, you exposed yourself to a couple of home invaders, set your dogs and your gun sights on police officers, confronted a madman, and had to run from a pack of pit bulls.

Why?

Why not take advantage of the protection allowed under "Georgia's Castle Doctrine" - stay in your castle behind your locked doors and...

...tell the thugs to beat it and call 911...

...call 911 about a disturbance and be told that officers are on the scene...

...call 911 about a deranged man in the street...

...call animal control and/or 911 to report the dog pack...

Of course you (and I) should be prepared to defend our castles. The lights, alarms, and dogs have alerted you to trouble - but why go out looking for it? If trouble breaks in a door or window...you do what ya gotta do from the advantage of a good defensive position (both tactically and legally).

Now here's where I admit that I've done similar things when disturbed by events in my neighborhood - but I'm learning.

Kind of Blued
March 15, 2009, 06:52 AM
I have to second rainbowbob's statements. Pick up the recent gun magazine that Massad Ayoob writes (nearly) single-handedly and give the self-defense articles a read. Indeed, it is your castle, but that doesn't make you king.

Stay inside and let the cops do their job. If anybody enters your house, all bets may be off, but we all need to use that barrier as our next to last defense.

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