[Glockster35]

You gotta see this!

AF Link page (http://www.af.mil/stories/story.asp?storyID=123005370)

Tell me honestly, what do you think about this uniform?

[Loaded]

I kind of like them. I never was impressed with the Air Force uniforms before. Being an old Navy man I was always partial to my Cracker Jack uniform.

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

Forty years ago they would have figured the uniforms would look like this in 2003. I bet there's a lot of airmen who are glad for what they're going to get instead.

I've never seen blue or grey foliage, though. Most AF folks don't walk in the woods or need to blend into the sky without having an airplane around them. Most AF folks I know have indoor jobs, except for ramp rats.

Looks more like some general had a daughter who needed another project for her Fashion Design class at Midwestern State University.




Regards,
Rabbit.

[Duncan Idaho]

:cool: I like them a lot.

[Spieler]

First the Marines and now the Air Force; they all want their own, 'distinctive' looking high-speed uniforms. As if friend or foe recognition on the battlefield isn't already difficult enough. Oh well, as long as it makes them feel cool.

ps-USAF is just still holding a grudge because of it's bastardized start as the ARMY Air Corps. :p

[Schuey2002]

"What once was old, is now new again!" :D

I wonder why they chose the Vietnam era tiger stripe pattern?? Hmmmm. :scrutiny:

[Duncan Idaho]

I wonder why they chose the Vietnam era tiger stripe pattern?? Hmmmm'Cause there is one hell of a lot of bamboo in southeastern China.

[Skunkabilly]

So should I go Army Reserves instead of Air Force Reserves? :p

[Schuey2002]

What good is this camo going to do when an Air Force pilot gets shot down over a "bamboo-less" region of this planet? :scrutiny:

"Hey, look everyone! I'm stranded in the desert of Northern Iran/Syria/Northern Africa. Boy am I glad I have this snazzy new camo on. No one is every going to spot me now!!" :uhoh:

[Orthonym]

There aren't any blue plants.

[Marko Kloos]

The Marines came up with MARPAT, and some AIr Force general jumped up and down in front of his TV when he first saw them.

"Oooh! The jarheads have their own camo pattern, so everyone will recognize a Marine right away! We need our own pattern as well."

REAL Air Force camo would incorporate the front side of a vending machine, some rec room couch pattern, or the pattern of an unmade AF bunk.

:D

[Ohen Cepel]

They seem to be suffering too much envy over the Marines new uniform.

Am I seeing right? It's BLUE?!?!? Not practical in most settings.

I sure don't want a tac air controller with me in the woods wearing blue!!!
Well, he would be a great bullet magnet so it may not be all bad (for me):rolleyes:

[Matt1911]

I'm pretty much amazed there is "a" camo pattern.I have a least six differant patterns for duck,turkey, deer,ect.,corn fields or woods,ect.
Would it not make more sense to have differant patterns for differant jobs?Why would base personal need any camo?

[stevelyn]

Elmendorf AFB, Alaska. Now just what in the hell type of environment are those colors supposed to blend in with here???? Glaciers??

[Glockster35]

Just what I thought your response would be. Mixed!

I think the uniform is definately distinctive, and easy to wear (I like that). No more ironing and polishing boots. But what environment is it created to camoflage? It sure isn't urban, or forest.

As a Security Forces member (Police) in the Air Force, this uniform bothers me. How will we blend in to any environment. I feel like a lost sould now, because if the air force goes with this pattern, we will definately be the laughing stock of all the military branches. I would definately get out at 20 years instead of staying a few extra.

The Air Force is trying to base itself as a real military. I think this uniform in this form is a complete waste of time and money. The Air Force just instituted mandatory PT :D (Jan 2004) in the form of the Army PT Test for Security Forces, and something similar for all others. Yep, the bike test is supposedly gone.:)

[MicroBalrog]

Actually, looks a bit like the "Urban Camouflage" pattern of the Russian SWAT (OMON).

[Legionnaire]

It is related that when the ship was in deep but not obvious distress the captain could not persuade the passengers to man the life boats, so he resulted to cultural remedy. To the Germans he said, "It is an order." To the English he said, "It is a game." To the French he said, "It is sinful." To the Italians he said, "It is forbidden." And to the Americans he said, "It is new."

It is true enough that some of what is new is excellent, notably automobiles, metals and fabrics, but a lot of what is new is lousy - notably clothing, "pop noise," and journalism.

We have had the cartridges we need since World War I. It is the guns we can improve.

--Cooper's Commentaries, Vol. 11, No. 8, July 2003

Cooper was referring to new cartridges (last paragraph), but I note his line "a lot of what is new is lousy - notably clothing ..."

Question is, what's the point? IMHO, the uniform looks like something cobbled together by a tin-pot dictator to give his security forces something distinctive. Guess this is what happens when officers and administrators get caught up in the "self esteem" cult.

[SSGMike]

With its attractive belt to flatter any airman's waistline, the new AF BDU will undoubtedly be the hottest dadburned uniform one could ever wish for.

Whatever happened to loose, ventilating clothing? Maybe it'll be fine for types like the 2LT model, guarding a gate or whatever, but I think it would prove too warm and restrictive in a field environment. Just my .02.

One good idea on the new USMC uniform is the pockets on the sleeves, 'cause when you're in a vest, there ain't no getting to those jacket pockets.

I could always tell the Marines old uniforms anyway - their covers have corners and they roll their sleeves the wrong way! :p

[Monte Harrison]

http://www.af.mil/media/photodb/web/web_030709-F-3050V-073.jpgWhy did they even bother with a "camouflage" pattern?
This has got to be a joke. First the Army puts black berets on REMF's, then the Air Farce goes to stylin' new rags.

[Jaywalker]

Spieler: First the Marines and now the Air Force; they all want their own, 'distinctive' looking high-speed uniforms. As if friend or foe recognition on the battlefield isn't already difficult enough. What he said.


Marko Kloos: REAL Air Force camo would incorporate the front side of a vending machine, some rec room couch pattern, or the pattern of an unmade AF bunk. What he said, too. :D As a retired Air Force guy, I can say that with this initiative, it must mean we have fully equipped each Air Force Base with the required golf courses, officers clubs, and airfields (in that order) to be able to afford new uniforms.


Schuey2002: What good is this camo going to do when an Air Force pilot gets shot down over a "bamboo-less" region of this planet? Nah, these are fatigues, not flight suits. Most of us ended up bailing out over Nevada after successfully evading a simulated threat at Red Flag. It was a short walk into Las Vegas, so I'm thinking we need Elvis jumpsuits. :D

Jaywalker

[MicroBalrog]

People, again, this pattern (or similar) was already used. It works.:)

[Dave Markowitz]

Snazzy looking but hardly practical.

1. It's BLUE. Unless the AF now teaches levitation so that the wearer will only be seen against the sky, it'll stick out like a sore thumb.

2. The belt around the midline is going to be really uncomfortable in hot weather.

[owen]

I think the pattern is probably too dark, and the contrast between the different colors is too low. There are very few things in nature as dark as that pattern, and the whole thing is too dark to break up a person's silhouette.

Then again, I am not an expert on camo.

owen

[Glockster35]

It's hard to tell in the pictures, but the shirt is tucked into the pants, and the exposed belt is actually on the pants, not added to the shirt.

I think one of the weirdest things about this is the Black Henley style three button short sleeved shirt, with US Air Force and the individuals name embroidered on the chest (in white). I guess that means it will not be acceptable to walk around without the blouse on? Why a black shirt though? If they are going blue, how about making it sky blue.

There were supposed to be pockets added on the sleeves, but I have yet to see them in a picture.

I can't wait to actually get a chance to see this uniform. It may not be as bad as it looks. Hopefully they will change it a bit more before accepting it.

[gburner]

Your tax dollars at work...it sucks on toast. These folks are hired to pull the trigger on enemies of the USofA,
not be effing fashion statements for the aggrandizement of some desk jockey general's ego. What a crock.:barf:

[Ed Straker]

First thought - Well, it's some incarnation of the 'urban camo', currently fashionable, which has nothing to do with camo.
Then I read there'll be little Air Force logos in the pattern, I'm thinking Marine envy. At least the new Marpats are functional (comfortable, more pockets), and actually provide camoflage.
As far as the boots go, I don't think the tan roughout desert boots will go well with the blue theme, so I don't know what they're gonna do. Elvis, Blue Suede Boots?
Semper Fi

[Mark Tyson]

Without a doubt the "tiger-stripe" pattern is the coolest looking pattern out there, but is it practical?

There's a couple of things to consider here. What will the uniforms be used for: garrison or field? Pilots will be wearing flight suits anyway, so they don't count. I think this pattern is useless for the field. It stands out too much and it's far too bright. The old-school OD green uniforms were better! Even the German light gray style from WW2 probably is better than this one. Although it would complicate logistics, it might make sense to have 2 uniforms: one for garrison & one for field. The garrison uniform would be worn, washed and abused. The field uniform would be packed away in your A bag or whatever to be grabbed for a field problem or deployment. This way it would not suffer from repeated washings, starching, etc. Look at how servicemen super-starch their uniforms so they can look squared away, only to have their clothes lose their durability and fall apart in the environment!

For those air force MOS that require humping with the army or something similar, the army's BDU's should be used. FACs and PJ's and combat controllers should stick to that pattern. If it were up to me, the "splotches" or bands of green-brown-black would be smaller but still it's hard to beat the woodland BDU for general all-round camo. Supposedly the new USMC uniform is computer designed to blend better using tiny pixels. Sounds good to me. There's also a kind of urban camo out there: a leporous gray and off-green that seems to blend will against building materials.

One more thing: When are they going to make body armor & load bearing equipment in desert-like colors?

[Glockster35]

I don't know if this is still than plan or not, but a few months ago they were saying this new uniform wold replace the BDU's and Desert uniforms.

Yeah, I really want to go to Iraq wearing Blue tiger stripes...can't wait.

As for the web gear, I would assume by the black belt she is wearing, the AF will transition to black gear. Now that will really make you stand out!

[Flipster]

At present (always subject to change), the new pattern is to be used as a Garrison uniform.

BDU's (in woodland) and DCU's (in desert camo) will still be used in specific theaters, as necessary. White snow camoflage oversuits are also available for conditions where needed. As well, the sage green or desert tan flightsuits will be used by where appropriate.

[Glockster35]

Flipster,

Where di you hear/read that information. It is opposite what I have read and heard.

Makes more sense to me, but that's not how the AF operates.

[another okie]

It would blend nicely into that blue color glaciers get when ice shears off.

[Flipster]

Glockster35,

I retired last year (Security Forces), still have many friends serving. Heard it from a friend who's a Chief, also from others.

Kind of like how it is now, BDU's are the default uniform, DCU's issued when appropriate. Snow camo made available when appropriate. Only, the new uniform would be the default.

Always important to look stunning when strolling to the BX, Burger King, or work center........:rolleyes:

[GinSlinger]

http://www.af.mil/media/photodb/web/web_030709-F-3050V-247.jpg

:confused: :rolleyes: :confused:

Wasn't it about ten years ago when some general decided that officeer uniforms were going to start using a Naval style rank? All officers were given a year to purchase said new uniforms, only to have that confused general retire six months after uniform deadline and his order was recinded. (At least thats what I remember from AFROTC)


GinSlinger

[Gewehr98]

I can honestly tell you, we don't fly wearing BDU's. I ain't making this stuff up, really. Nomex flight suits, in either olive or tan.

Funny thing is, Chief of Staff came down with a mandate a month ago that stated if you're not in a duty location that precludes it, you must wear your service (blue) uniform. Good infusion of money for the AAFES dry cleaners and AAFES clothing sales stores. Burlington Fabric has even announced a long-term shortage of Air Force Blue fabric for the trousers. Big morale boost, that was.

As for Lendsringer's smug post, if we're gonna be cutesy about it, I'd rather my camouflage pattern mimic TF-33's, CFM-56's, and the usual colors of the 55th Wing aircraft I'm assigned to. And I didn't see too many vending machines when I was billeted in a nice, tan-colored tent in Riyadh, gas mask strapped to my thigh. Which makes me curious as to how much time he spent there, Bundeswehr or otherwise, as he comments about the vending machines and rec rooms? :scrutiny:

If not, at least let it mimic the foliage of the location where the troops see their deployment.

I wonder if Glockster is thinking the same thing I am? I have just over two years to go before retirement, I'll wager by the time they figure out what they want folks to wear in garrison, the mandatory wear date will be sometime AFTER my retirement date. :D

[Schuey2002]

Okay, okay.. I'll admit that I had a slight brain fart on the whole BDU/flight suit issue, but what about these guys.. You know, the Air Force's "PJ's"and CCT's , are they going to switch over to this new camoflauge too?? :confused: ;)
http://www.pentagon.mil/photos/Dec2000/001115-F-3677G-088.gif

[MeekandMild]

They need a pink version for the folks at Eglund AFB, Hurlburt Field and Keesler AFB so they can hide in the Azaleas. :rolleyes:

[Drizzt]

...now, if they would just let the Navy get rid of the prison uniforms....

[Skunkabilly]

What's a 'CCT', a Close Combat Tactical? :confused:

[Schuey2002]

Combat Control Technician.

CCT's, [whose motto is] "first to fight", are responsible to enter hostile territory ahead of the rest and establish safe landing sites for arriving forces.

;)

[Skunkabilly]

'Combat Control Technician'? Sounds cool, kinda like a 'Goblin Removal Analyst'? :D

[Stealthfixr]

I see why they want some blue in there. Okay, no problem. But, I DO NOT get why is has to be camo AND blue/grey?! Let's face it--the large majority of the USAF never get out of their offices or the flightline. It's a small minority of the USAF that actually operates in a field environment. This uniform looks confused in purpose to me.

I am not sure what this is going to do for Airman Joe Snuffy other than cost a LOT of money buying the new uniforms when they come out. And, where is the rank!?

BTW, we just spent money to have all of our patches sewn BACK on to the BDUs, only to see them go right away again with this new 'thing'. Seems the only real tradition is the USAF is changing things endlessly ...

[Glockster35]

Gewehr98,

It must be nice only having to wait 2-3 years. Me personally I have 5 years remaining until I can punch ous, so unless things go totally wrong, I will likely have to wear this uniform.

Like you I am not looking forward to this uniform. Very little seems to be known in the Air Force right now about hte uniform changes. Last night I heard there is actually another version of White, Grey and dark Green tiger stripes, which would be worn in a wooded environment.

Who knows.

[Fudgie Ghost]

are these new Marine BDU's available yet for civilian sale? Ya know from folks like Brigade Quatermaster or US Calvary?

[Glockster35]

I have not located a place to buy the new Marpat design anywahere. Kind of wish I knew someone in the Marines to get me a pair though.

My wife has a cousin that can probably do it, but he just got out of boot, so I don't want him to get in trouble yet.

I had heard they were hard to come by, and it was frowned upon to allow them outside Marine channels.

But I do want a closer look at the Marpat BDU boots they have designed...

[10-Ring]

Kinda like'em in a hip hop/gangsta/ urban tactical kinda way :cool:

[Ed Straker]

So the new theory I've been reading is that they're blue for the UN takeover in the New World Order...

Glockster, the new Marine Corps Combat Boots are basically Belleville 700s in the desert pattern, with Gore-Tex and an Eagle, Globe and Anchor embossed on the ankle. There's also a jungle version with no Gore-Tex and a couple of drain holes in the instep, also made by Bates.

[Zip06]

I was in the Air Force in the early 1960's. I liked the Air Force. The Aerospace team decided I needed to go to SE Asia. When I got there I was assigned to an outfit that issued a goofie cowboy-bushhat and regular OD fatigues which had the sleeves chopped off. One side of the hat was pinned (snapped) up. With our pressed fatigues and highly shined boots that the hooch maids kept up, we were the terror of Bien Hoa. The local debutantes liked our spiffy attire. Later, I noticed the Air Force renamed its ranks and if I would have stayed in I would not be a Sgt but I would be a Superientendant. Wow. They even came out with an assnine semi civilian suit. Then, later, in order to turn the Air Force in "soldiers" they began issuing a beret. Not just any beret but (I think) one like the Army Rangers wore. The beret for everyone was such a great idea the Army adopted it.

My suggestion for the Superintendent (sp) would be to change the camoflage pattern to one with alternate wrenches, desks, typewriters and BX items.

[Ed Straker]

See the picture here, and look at the cover:

http://www.airforcetimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2115503.php

I told you it was Marine envy!:p

[Zip06]

Ed - When you are right you are right. Instead of the Marine emblem on the hat will this one have a propeller?

[Skunkabilly]

How is the pattern different from the tiger stripes from Nam?

[iamhistory]

They look like the uniforms in that one movie by Jean Claude Van Damme, I don't remember the name, but it was something similar to the spin off of Tomb Raider kind of thing.

Van Damme played the military hero who foiled the caped bad guy in the nick of time. They wore berets and cammies just like the USAF pic.

Overall, pretty silly looking. Certainly not acceptable in representing the USAF, unless we're trying to change our image and humor people to death.

[Spark]

Only thing I noticed is that the belt is made by Spec Ops brand which is a practical switch for a change. Normal issued belts suck ???... the seat belt webbing style ones are much more durable and comfortable.

[Glockster35]

Spark,

I agree, the larger Spec Ops style (rigger) belts are superior. As a matter of fact I have worn one (against the rules) for a few years now. No one has ever commented on it or even that it is black, and many have seen it.

We are required to use a blue one like the black Marine issued belt. Black buckle in BDU's and chrome in blues.


I prefer something I can use, over something required. Same with my duty gear, I am required to wear OD green web gear, with widow maker flap holster, but purchased my own Black gear and wear it against requirements. Many have complained, but they'll all get over it!

[Andrew Wyatt]

No more ironing and polishing boots.


twenty seconds into the new uniform issue some colonel is going to require you to iron and polish anyway.


coveralls are better work uniforms for the people who actually do work, and class a's are just fine for the office rats. The PJ's should be able to wear what ever they want, since they might actually get shot at.

[Glockster35]

Andrew and others feeling this way

I agree the maintainers should get to wear coveralls. I don't think anyone would really argue the need for a uniform for duties such as maintaining aircraft, or the civil engineers building buildings and stuff.

Don't think for one minute that PJ's are the only ones who get shot at in the Air Force. I will agree that during war and other serious situations they go much deeper in the battle then almost all others in the AF, but Air Force Security Forces are getting shot at on a regular basis. Many Security Forces (Air Force Police) have been shot in the line of duty over the years.

As a matter in fact, in 1991 a good friend of mine shot a gunman at Fairchild AFB, Washington (http://www.ipmba.org/newsletter-0010-airman.htm).

It doesn't happen very often, but seems to be happening more often in the last 10 years. I believe it has a direct relationship to the Air Force lowering the standards of entry into the service and with recruiting a lower class of troop into the military as a whole.

Examples:
Cops at Guam (https://www.andersen.af.mil/36SFS/memorial.htm)

Edwards cop (http://www.edwards.af.mil/archive/1998/980110pr.html)

There are many other examples, but I was unable to find them linked on-line.

Don't fool yourself into thinking Military Police (in all branches) aren't in dangerous jobs. The Law Enforcement and Security duties are inherently dangerous, just like at Podunk P.D. But we go beyond this calling when needed, we deploy for hostile threats, humanitarian missions and many other dangerous situations. There are a lot of Security Forces personnel deployed to Iraq and Liberia right now. Many I work with just returned from Iraq and reported personally being shot at on a daily basis. They were located with the Army in Bashir and Kirkuk.

[Schuey2002]

I don't remember the name..
Are you referring to the 1999, Box Office bomb,StreetFighter? ;)

[romulus]

Hopefully this nonsense will go the way of Hyman Rickover's redesign of sailor's uniforms in the 70's, Carter's hollow military...

[El Tejon]

First, ask if they can fight. Then ask if they look good.

I know, I know, a guy can dream, can't he.:uhoh:

[C.R.Sam]

ps-USAF is just still holding a grudge because of it's bastardized start as the ARMY Air Corps.

To pick a nit...
Before they became a Corps of their own, they were a subset of the Signal Corps.

Identity crisis still in progress.

Sam

[rennaissancemann]

... I'm trying to keep my mind open about the new uniform.

On the positive side, using the MARPAT fabric is a definate plus. MARPATS feel like a broken in set of the heavyweight NYCO BDUs, but are lighter than the cotton ripstops. The MARPAT shirt has the same number of pockets as the current BDU (4), substituting 2 feild dressing sized pockets on the sleeves for the 2 lower pockets. As another poster pointed out, this is probably due to the PASGT vest.

AS for the new Air Force uniform, I don't know about the blue/grey color. I fully expect the Air Force will direct the blue/grey uniform for in garrison wear and introduce the same uniform in green/brown for field use. Time will tell.

Regards,

[iamhistory]

Yes!!

STREET FIGHTER.................that's the one.

Thanks Schuey2002!

[Andrew Wyatt]

Don't think for one minute that PJ's are the only ones who get shot at in the Air Force. I will agree that during war and other serious situations they go much deeper in the battle then almost all others in the AF, but Air Force Security Forces are getting shot at on a regular basis. Many Security Forces (Air Force Police) have been shot in the line of duty over the years.


Thhe AF security guys also need to have uniforms that don't stand out. personally, i think that there should be a REMF uniform and a Combat arms uniform. both should be set up for what they're designed for; the REMF uniform has twinkie pockets and room for pencils and porno magazines or whatever they need pockets for in the office and comes in a recognizeable REMF color, and the combat arms uniform comes in camouflage, has pockets for useful stuff, and IS NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES issued or acquired by the REMFs.

[Glockster35]

Please explain what REMF means!:cuss:

And not all Security guys/girls eat twinkies and read porno magazines while at work. Some of us save those activities for off duty consumption!:p

[Andrew Wyatt]

Rear Echelon Mother F*something*. it's an infantry term for the clerks and supply officers who don't get shot at. The security officer people aren't REMFs, though. Heck, i've met the edwards AFB (which is about fifty miles away) swat team, the ones i met showed me around their cool van.

[gun-fucious]

gee whiz, it looks so Space Command

When do they get the Starship Troopers, Denise Richards, Extra Wide Tactical Lapels?

[USAFA]

These new BDU's were an idea cooked up by some 3 star desperate for an OPR bullet. I've yet to meet any junior enlisted who didn't regard the pattern with ridicule. That being said, the idea of new BDU's with the new cloth, more functional pockets, etc, is a great one. I love the fact that it's going to be wash and wear. But the blue tiger stripes really do need to go. If they want something distinctive, fine, why not a solid dark grey, or (my favorite idea) grey flight suits since we're all "airmen." Anything but ghetto cammies.

[Abominable No-Man]

Looks like someone drank a bottle of Ajax and barfed on himself.

Well, it's a sign of the times, I guess. We in the Army went to the black beret(and the Army is looking at a new BDU pattern, too, incidentally- my favorite kind of resembles the older British pattern), the Marine Corps went to it's computer generated pattern, now the Air Force is attempting this.

Well, who knows, maybe it will be good for morale. Personally I think it's an attempt to fix something that's not broken. If they wanted to dump a bunch of money into uniforms, I say redesign the Army Class A's and make that @#$!!&! beret go away (or at least make it a dress/formal item).

ANM

[BigG]

REAL Air Force camo would incorporate the front side of a vending machine, some rec room couch pattern, or the pattern of an unmade AF bunk. Snort! That's funny, but true.

Skunky: AF is not real service. You need to think Army or Marines. :uhoh:

[natedog]

My great uncle was shot down during an air raid over Germany. He made it back to England, but suffered a severe head injury. He was a complete vegetable incapable of doing anything (showering, deffecating, basic hygiene) without assistance for forty years till he died. He could not speak, nor move. Don't tell me he didn't serve his country.

[BigG]

Pls excuse me Natedog, nothing personal, just inter-service rivalry. If you are a veteran, thanks for your service.

[Detritus]

ps-USAF is just still holding a grudge because of it's bastardized start as the ARMY Air Corps.

i veiw this in the same light as "the Marine's are a part of the Navy".

in fact unlike the Air Force the Marines Are STILL part of the Navy!! :P (running for cover)

you'd think they'd get themselves out of the "dept of the Squids" don't ya :D


as for the is new uniform experiement, i'm thinking that it's gonna be a case of "oh the cut of the the uniform works, but that 'cammo' pattern looks like something a clubkid would wear, let's keep the fabric and the "cut" of it, but get a better design for the coloration......"

a light gray or bluegray solid maybe?? but a set of tigerstripes that look liek arefugee from Picaso's "blue period"!!?? get a grip.

[Ghost]

We may still be a department of the Navy, but we're the Men's Department. :D

The way I look at it, if the Air Force wants to look pretty in garrison, go for it. I'm sure that they will have mission specific and MOS specific regulations regarding when the new stuff can or will be worn.

[clem]

"A monkey in silk, is still a monkey.":D