[.455_Hunter]

I don't want to get in another big debate about birdshot vs buckshot for HD. I simply want to present this load to the forum since I just recently learned of its existence:

Federal Premium Ultra Shok Waterfowl
Product# MHD181BB
12 Gauge, 3", 1 3/8 oz, 850 fps, #BB Tungsten Shot, 1 3/4 dram equiv.
10 Rd/bx


This could be the answer for folks who want a large shot heavy pellet (non steel) in a very light load. Usually loads like this are availabe in #8 shot (or so) only. Anybody who could pick-up a shotgun could handle this load!

Just don't shoot much of it for practice, since a box of 10 goes for $31.46 :eek:

I wonder why it is loaded in 3" instead of 2 3/4" shells?

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=10480_14626_11576_16377_16781&products_id=100556

Talk amongst yourselves!

[Avenger29]

I wonder why it is loaded in 3" instead of 2 3/4" shells?

Amount of shot? Just a guess...

[Pete409]

I think Avenger29 has it right.

[Dave McCracken]

At a guess, I'd say this is the ammo to go with the Metro barrel system for low noise pest control.

LP Brezny developed the system. It uses a 32" barrel extension threaded like a choke tube one screws into the muzzle of Ol Trusty Rusty. Combined with subsonic ammo like this one has a very low noise product for say, golf course goose control.

As for defensive use, I'm still fond of 00.

[Rampant_Colt]

Just don't shoot much of it for practice, since a box of 10 goes for $31.46

I wonder why it is loaded in 3" instead of 2 3/4" shells?
$31 for an unproven, low velocity duck n goose load...? Sounds like a bad idea that could get an untrained homeowner killed.

Repeat after me:
"birdshot is for birds, and buckshot for bad guys." "birdshot is for birds, and buckshot for bad guys." "birdshot is for birds, and buckshot for bad guys."
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/1980/spinnerzn6.gif
"birdshot is for birds, and buckshot for bad guys" "birdshot is for birds, and buckshot for bad guys"

[RyanM]

Ew. Reduced recoil buckshot or slugs are a better bet, definitely. 8 pellets of 00 at 1200 fps. That's a hair under an ounce, or one ounce for a slug, so you get less recoil than a 1-1/8 ounce target load.

[Fred Fuller]

Well, let's see.

Small shot- even if they are tungsten.

Low velocity- 850 FPS.

As near as I can tell, that adds up to reduced performance as well as reduced recoil- small shot at low velocity is NOT what I want to launch at someone who doesn't care that I have both a 90 pound dog AND a shotgun in the house. I refuse to use even reduced recoil 00 buck in a defensive load, and I'm certainly not going to step down to both smaller shot and lower velocity.

The simple fact is that ANYTHING that is going to slow down a bad guy is going through a couple of sheets of drywall at least. It's simple physics and there is no getting around it, unless you believe in the advertisements for Nytrillium magic bullets ( http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot23.htm ). There's nothing wrong with exploring alternatives, as long as you don't slip the anchor of simple physics in the process.

I'm REALLY happy with the new Federal LE127 00 9-pellet full power load. I think the safest thing I can do with a defensive shotgun is to keep all my pellets on the intended target, and the patterning ability of this load is excellent.

YMMV of course!

lpl/nc

[.455_Hunter]

I am not advocating this load for HD. I use full power lead BB through 00 buck for my HD shotguns.

My purpose is as follows:

If a reader of this board has decided, for whatever reason (condo, apartment, etc.), that bird shot is what they want to use for HD, I want them to know that this product is on the market.

I am curious what the terminal performance of this load is in ballistic gelatin. Full power lead BB penetrates about 11" (from www.tacticalworks.ca). I don't know what this reduced velocity load will penetrate, but my guess is that is will beat some of the smaller size shot (like #4 or#6) that is often recommended by bird shot proponents.

[RyanM]

Check out the calibration on the Tacticalworks.ca site before you say what the penetration was. Ideal calibration is 8.5 cm at 590 fps. An extra couple tens of fps will only increase calibration to like 8.8 cm tops.

[only1asterisk]

Another interesting load for indoor use:

https://www.bandpusa.com/Shopping/product_info.php?cPath=53_54&products_id=49

Midway recently had it on sale. I bought some and I hope to try it soon. 50 pieces of slightly smaller than T size lead shot @ 1300fps. NOT reduced recoil.

David

[kingjoey]

If I had a shotgun reloader here I'd tool up something a little more effective. I'm thinking 20 plain M&M's over a max load of powder, no overpenetration concerns and a smooth chocolaty finish ;)

[sm]

Back in the day...[tm]
Before meddlin' with waterfowl and what they got felled with, I had a 2 3/4" .
1 3/8 oz load of #5 copper plated hard shot.

I never saw a need for 3" shells and these reloads would fell ducks and geese folks that could not shoot, needed back-up on. My role was back up.
Old plain pitiful looking 870, plain barrel with a fixed IC, or Mod barrel. Just whichever one was on the gun, or if I knew ahead of time where these clients would be missing ...errr...hunting waterfowl.

In a shoot house, I fired off these loads. I wanted to pattern these loads and it was really nasty outside, made sense to pattern indoors to me...
Chrono'd these load were scooting along at 1165 fps. [best recall].

How did it do?

I know very well how these loads did. The deal is, materials react to shooting different if just stand alone materials, such as drywall, than they do "in actual construction"

Real house, one used to shoot inside. When that wall needed "repair" drywall was removed and new 2x4s and drywall and whatever else was rebuilt as a new construction.

I know what that load did going through a glass paned "French Door" too...shooting toward a glass "bedroom window" ...
I also shoot guns "in the car". I was raised right and turned out okay....

Point being, one has to test loads for themselves from their guns.
My take is I have, and also have taken other prudent steps in regard to backstops, shooting lanes and even legal aspects. Before and after legal aspects...

I gotta youth single shot 20 ga with slugs bought locally in a 5 pack...
Rare, still I do load with #3 buck, and again, just off the rack 5 pack...

A gun and load any youth remembers his dad or grandpa using...just plain vanilla, nothing more, nothing less...