A WARNING ABOUT MACE (tm)


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NeveraVictimAgain
March 7, 2008, 02:43 AM
In October of 1994 I was savagely attacked by two thugs who were both armed with baseball bats. I tried to defend myself as best I could with the only weapon I had. It was genuine MACE (tm) brand chemical spray with a 5% mixture of pepper spray in it. It didn't seem to have any effect at all on my attackers, one of whom was drunk. I was later told the drunk had to be carried into the police station because he was having a hard time breathing. Unfortuneatly for me the MACE I sprayed him with took a few minutes to take effect and by that time I had been struck in the head several times with a baseball bat. I truly believe it was Divine intervention that saved me from being killed or gravely injured. I learned the hard way that unless you hit someone directly in the eye with it MACE takes several minutes to work. :what:

I have researched this topic here at THR and the consensus is that "Fox" (tm) brand is the best pepper spray you can buy. I recently read an ad for Fox that says most pepper sprays are one half to one million heat units, while Fox is 5.1 million units. I'm going to order some Fox brand by mail order as I can't find it locally. In the meantime I still carry the latest version of MACE which they call "Triple Action" because it contains MACE brand CNS spray, pepper spray, and UV dye all in the same mixture. I also carry a switchblade - legal in my state - and after dark a gun. I don't have any training in unarmed self defense and can't afford to take classes at the only karate studio here in town. I am memorizing pressure points and strikes from some of the Bruce Tegner "teach yourself" books from the 60s. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

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Robert Hairless
March 7, 2008, 02:52 AM
Many years ago a routine part of Basic Training in the Army (ours) involved entering a small room while some tear gas canisters were discharged. At the command "Gas!" we had to clear our mask, put it on, and do something or other. Then we were ordered to remove the mask and perform some kind of small task before we could leave the room. I remember my eyes burned and watered but that did not stop me--or, I think, anyone else--from doing what was required.

hso
March 7, 2008, 11:37 AM
NaVA,

I'm glad you survived such an attack with no permanent physical disability. As you know you were very lucky.

A switchblade wouldn't be my first choice for a SD knife and a knife wouldn't be my first choice for a SD tool if carrying some sort of "stick" is a viable option (you'd be amazed how many innovative ways a stick can be carried). If a stick isn't an option, is a fixed blade knife legal to carry?

What state do you live in and does your state have a weapons permit or a handgun permit system?

armoredman
March 7, 2008, 12:25 PM
MACE is a Smith and Wesson registered trademark, and has been around since the 60s. It is an ineffective and worthless item. A true OC spray, LE strength, (such as Bodyguard LE 10) is a pretty much instant incapacitator on normal humans - I have seen it used many times inside the walls. There are also several people who are literally immune to the stuff.
Can you carry a firearm where you live? Taser?

Coyote Hunter
March 7, 2008, 02:54 PM
As a retired PO, I can say with experience that the old mace or a pepper spray copy didn't work that well on drunks or those that were high on drugs. In fact, it usually ended up in our own eyes either by wind, or contact with the BG during the scuffle. Then you had to drive to the station with it in your car. The main problem was it could make your defense of yourself harder if you get it in your own eyes. It was a better idea for less than lethal and the night stick (for insurance companies) in the old days, but usually you had to resort to higher methods anyway. It worked ok on mildly resisting people, those who were sober, but just ding-a-lings wnating to pull away from you while you were trying to handcuff them. You didn't want to baton them if they weren't trying to hurt you.

I don't know if civilian use of a stun gun will make any difference. it's hard without training to hit someone running at you with a ball bat with one of those, and in the winter, heavy coats cal effect it working at all.

Sometimes, unfortunatly, deadly force being used against you, requires deadly force in return. either way, there is no perfect all around personal defence weapon out there.

CH

conw
March 7, 2008, 03:21 PM
after dark a gun

Why just after dark? I'm sure there's a slightly increased level of crime after dark but a heck of a lot happens during the day too.

Valkman
March 7, 2008, 03:33 PM
I suggest a gun all the time also. I'm going into Vegas today and no way I go there without a gun. I did just get a permit so it's legal to carry now but we can always have guns in vehicles which is what I did before I got the permit.

slzy
March 7, 2008, 04:47 PM
i don't know about tasers,but the little units that you have to stick someone with are useless unless you poke them in the eye,which you could do with a thumb,key, or stick. may be useful against a dog.

41magsnub
March 7, 2008, 04:52 PM
Many years ago a routine part of Basic Training in the Army (ours) involved entering a small room while some tear gas canisters were discharged. At the command "Gas!" we had to clear our mask, put it on, and do something or other. Then we were ordered to remove the mask and perform some kind of small task before we could leave the room. I remember my eyes burned and watered but that did not stop me--or, I think, anyone else--from doing what was required.

Agreed, I did 50 push ups in the gas room with no mask once to get a 3 day pass on a regular weekend. The 1SGT didn't think I could do it.

Geno
March 7, 2008, 06:27 PM
Sorry to hear of your case. You know, I have been a certified TKD instructor for many years, about 25. I had a couple of students who could never have afforded the tuition or uniform. They asked to exchange service for service...barter. We exchanged them cleaning the TKD school for their tuition. Both students were extraordinarily serious. Before cleaning, both would practice. Both came to class daily. Then, cleaned.

I would explain your circumstances to a local certified instructor and see if they might do the same. TKD is awesome supplemental training to other weapons. For what it is worth, I am glad I have both. Whatever you study, be sure it is a combat-system, not just a "pretty" exercise.

Best of luck for your future studies,

Doc2005

NeveraVictimAgain
March 11, 2008, 02:57 PM
Dear Folks,
Thank you for the replies.

I live in Vermont so no CHL is required. I used to carry 24/7 but word got around and people got upset. I think the chances of my being attacked in the daylight are pretty slim, we have a pretty low crime rate here. I was attacked in the first place because I have the same name as a horrible child molester and people thought I was him. My attackers have been informed they had the wrong guy.

Like I said, I'm going to get some of the FOX brand for regular carry and also my little switchblade, which is legal here in VT as long as the blade is under 3 inches.

I don't go out alone at night much anymore anyways.

NeveraVictimAgain
March 11, 2008, 04:45 PM
P.S. Thanks for the suggestion about cleaning the dojo. I'll ask about it.

conw
March 13, 2008, 02:15 PM
I used to carry 24/7 but word got around and people got upset.

Whoa, whoa, let's give this some thought here. First, your safety is your business. Second, if "word got around" people think you're armed to this day, most likely. Third, why did you tell everyone you were armed if it was that kind of situation?

I don't see the point in carrying pepper spray and a knife during the day and a gun only at night because "someone" got upset.

This is starting to seem really weird.

Six O'clock Tactical
March 13, 2008, 02:42 PM
Carry all the time. If you want to, that is. Other peoples opinion is exactly that, theirs and intangible. Your body is indeed quite physical, and your right to protect it goes far beyond other peoples gossip.

Being in college I know for a fact that when people do things they wouldent normally do because of peer pressure, it usually ends less than favorably.

$0.02.

Supertac45
March 13, 2008, 02:59 PM
Carry 24/7, and to hell with what the idiots think.

Nitrogen
March 13, 2008, 03:11 PM
An interesting thing I learned.

Mace or teargas is an irritant. It has no effect on people drunk or under the influence of other drugs,

Pepper spray is an inflammatory agent. It'll cause the recipients mucous membranes to swell immidately on contact, and the effect will be felt wether they are drunk or high.

Coronach
March 13, 2008, 04:32 PM
Mace (a trademarked term used to describe the range of currently available chemical sprays) is not 100%. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. Sometimes it works almost instantly, sometimes it does not.

Is it better than nothing? Yes. Should it be relied upon to stop an attacker? No.

Mike

brent376
March 13, 2008, 08:05 PM
Spitfire www.spitfire.us is a very powerful pepper spray packaged in an easy to shoot dispenser. They have the standard formula that is 10% OC 2million SHU 1.4% Capsaicinoids (the important ingredient) and a new Michigan Formula that is 2% OC 5 million SHU 0.67% Capsaicinoids.

Check out www.spitfire.us

When purchasing an OC spray the important number is the percentage of capsaicin and related capsaicinoids. The SHU rating is the strength of the Spray before it is mixed. Fox Labs is also a good spray.

brent376
March 13, 2008, 08:12 PM
BTW Mace is a brand name for Mace Security International located in Bennington VT. The owner of MSI purchased the company in 1986 from Smith and Wesson Chemical Corporation. The original Mace formula had 1% CN and is no longer sold. The Original Pepper Gard was 5% OC. Today MACE makes their sprays with mixtures of CN Tear Gas and OC pepper, 10% Pepper Gard, Pepper Foam Pepper Gel as well as animal repellents. They are much stronger than the older formulations. MSI formulates their products so that you must hit the attacker directly in the eyes for the product the work except for the Triple Action Spray. That way you are much less likely to be contaminated with your own spray. The Triple Action has a vaporizing tear gas that will work even if it does not get right in the eyes. However if you don’t get a direct hit in the eyes it can take about 5-15 seconds for the tear gas to kick in. With the pepper gard, foam and Gel it wont work at all unless you get a direct hit. Mace brand products are still very dependable and are effective in most situations however nothing including Fox Labs is 100% effective. www.macebrand.com

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