[Dithsoer]

I’m considering “converting” my Ruger New Model Vaquero into an open top by removing the top strap and re-contouring the top of the gun. I realize that of course this will void my warranty but I really like the idea of the open top design on a strong, modern gun. The new design possesses the revolver’s original rear sight and I doubt would reduce it’s strength much. Either way it’s not my intention to use the gun with hot loads anyway. I’ve tried considering this from every angle but just to make sure I haven’t missed anything I thought I’d run it by you guys. The base gun is a 5.5 inch blued-steel .357 magnum.

[Virginian]

Can I have your specifics so I can take out a life insurance policy on you? Can I ask why you don't just buy an open top to begin with, rather than chopping up the Ruger? I think it is going to look real strange and take a lot of effort to blend in the frame on both ends of the cylinder. I would not use power tools because you may well affect the steel's properties if you get the temperature up.

[RON in PA]

Frankly, this is one of the most hair-brained ideas that I've ever heard of. The open top frame worked well with Colt cap&ball revolvers and black powder pressures, but the Colt was designed from the get go as an open frame with a very large diameter cylinder pin well able to keep the gun in one piece. The cylinder pin on the Ruger gives no structural support to the frame.:(:(:(

[Dionysusigma]

Find a solid tree, wall, or bunker to fire it from. Additional materials include a string, last will and testament, and (if you can swing it) NDT dye-penetrant chemicals to use after every single shot. :scrutiny:

Barring them, follow the other posters' advice. :uhoh:

[bannockburn]

Dithsoer

You're kidding right? I'm with Ron in PA on this one. Probably time to move on to your next project, cutting off the roof of your car to make it a convertible.

[rcmodel]

but I really like the idea of the open top design on a strong, modern gun.Ever consider that the top-strap is what makes it a "Strong Modern Gun"?

rcmodel

[ArmedBear]

Ever consider that the top-strap is what makes it a "Strong Modern Gun"?

LOL

Consider the history of the Open Top. It was made for about a year, in 1872, when the S&W patent on drilled-through cylinders expired. Colt wanted to sell them to the US Government, which promptly said, "No way. That thing is way too weak. We want something like the Remington New Model Army revolvers that proved themselves in the War." So Colt made the 1873 Army, which of course went on into history as one of the great gun designs.

If you want an Open Top, go buy a Uberti replica and keep your loads reasonable.

Consider this: the Colt design supports the barrel using two frame elements, the bottom solid frame and a thick cylinder pin.

http://www.texasranger.org/dispatch/4/Graphics/Colt1851Navylg.jpg
http://www.texasranger.org/dispatch/4/Graphics/Colt51Schematic.jpg

Note the large cylinder pin that's attached to the frame.

Full-frame single action revolvers do NOT use the cylinder pin as a structural part. The pin is relatively thin and is held in with some retainer like a small set screw, a spring-loaded pushbutton latch (the Ruger has that), or some other non-load-bearing retaining design.

Here's the Remington New Model Army that proved itself to be a stronger design in the Civil War.

http://www.texasranger.org/dispatch/8/Illus/Remington1.jpg
http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/schematics/1858NewArmy8-44.gif

Note that the cylinder pin just slides in and out, and does not strengthen the revolver's frame.

So, while the early Colt cap & ball and open top guns didn't have a top strap, they did have two structural parts in parallel, the bottom frame and the cylinder pin, holding the barrel on when the gun was fired. Full-frame guns, including the Remington, 1873 Colt, and a host of lesser-known designs, use the top and bottom of the frame only; the pin is only a pivot for the cylinder, not a structural part of the frame/barrel assembly.

If you cut the strap off a Ruger (or any other full-frame single action), you only have ONE, and it's in a position where the bullet has a lot of leverage to bend the frame down. The gun would probably last for a single round, and even that one round would shoot VERY low.

[foghornl]

Let me know when you plan to shoot that thang...


'cause I wanna be at least a mile away.

NOT a good idea, as the previous posters pointed out, for the reasons stated.

[Dithsoer]

Well evidently it can be done and is being done because I got the idea off an internet site a while back where a custom gunsmith offers a Ruger Vaquero converted to an Open-Top design that he's done himself. I can't recall the site, but I'll look for it and post it's link here in a day or so if I can find it.

[The Lone Haranguer]

IMO this has DISASTER written all over it.

[HOME DEPOT GEORGE]

Save some time and headaches and buy a cimarron conversion. I dont know what the quality is but they are priced reasonably and look pretty cool.

[Timthinker]

Dithsoer, please reconsider. Even if such a conversion is possible, you do not know the long term consequences involved. You may shoot that gun one day and have a disaster. Yes, there is something noble about being creative. But do not let creativity dwarf common sense. Again, please reconsider this decision.


Timthinker

[eldon519]

You doubt it will reduce the gun's strength much? Are you serious?

[Gator]

Bill Oglesby (Oglesby & Oglesby Gunmakers) had an idea for an open top Vaquero. He was going to make a base pin that screwed into the rear of the frame. I don't know if he ever did it, but he would certainly have the skill and knowledge to do so. The base pin modification would be critical!. Please don't just cut off the top strap and expect bad things not to happen.

[Majic]

Well evidently it can be done and is being done because I got the idea off an internet site a while back where a custom gunsmith offers a Ruger Vaquero converted to an Open-Top design that he's done himself.
Sure it can be done (most anything can be done), but you would have reduced the strength of the revolver down to handling black powder powered loads. Without the topstrap to make a solid frame there is nothing to stop the frame from flexing from the pressures smokeless powders can produce.

[asknight]

because I got the idea off an internet site a while back


LOL! Please step away from the keyboard and turn off your monitor! It's going to get you killed, or worse, maimed for the rest of your days.

[BlkHawk73]

You saw this on another site and still came looking for thoughts on this??? Wondeing exactly which site you saw this on.

[Lashlarue]

Find an old model Vaquero it is 15% stronger than the new model, should improve your survival rate at least 15%. May God have mercy on your soul.There is a reason the new model is not offered in 44 mag...

[ArmedBear]

Without the topstrap to make a solid frame there is nothing to stop the frame from flexing from the pressures smokeless powders can produce.

See the drawings above. It should be possible to make a modern open top that would last for hundreds of rounds, with a structural base pin.

No doubt this gunsmith built this gun for cowboy action shooting, with low-power loads.

Just get a Uberti conversion or Open Top replica. Any of them is cheaper than the Ruger (before the custom work), and beautiful.

See my post above, with illustrations.

Of course an Open Top can be built, and will work. They did it back in the 19th Century. But don't just chop off the top strap, and don't expect anything more powerful than a BP load or CAS smokeless load to work in it.

But why someone would want to chop a Ruger is beyond me, apart from a gunsmith's natural tinkering nature and sense of curiosity, and maybe a beat-up Vaquero sitting around. It serves no purpose, and the aesthetic is dubious anyway.

[Master Blaster]

Lately we have had a whole new crop of geniuses posting Here on THR.
I think you should get together with the gent who had a coffee can of unknown smokeless powder found in a deceased neighbor's basement and was going to load it up. He can make you some custom reloads for your new bomb, err gun.

[Virginian]

Hey, I bet those unknown powder reloads would be perfect in the open topped Ruger ! Mild, low pressure.....

[JMag]

As with many things in life, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

[Jim K]

The difference is not the base pin. When any revolver fires, the recoil force tends to try to bend the frame at the lower rear angle. In a percussion revolver, the entire cylinder recoils, so the impact on the recoil shield occurs at or near the center of the frame boss. The stress is lower down and its bending effect on the frame is not as great as if it were higher.

In a cartridge revolver, the cartridge case recoils, so the impact on the recoil shield is higher up and the bending forces are greater. With heavy loads, the frame would eventually bend if the top strap did not resist that force. Without a top strap, that resistance is not there.

Of course there is a medium point where an open top, fired with moderate loads, will work fine, at least for a while. But if heavy loads are used, there will be strains that will eventually compromise the strength of the frame.

So, can a conventional revolver be converted to an open top? Yes, but I cannot recommend it, for the reasons given above.

Jim

[Sistema1927]

I got the idea off an internet site

That explains quite a bit.

[Ohen Cepel]

Please buy one made that way originally. I think you could end up with a lot of money and time in a project that will not look very good in the end.

I won't bring up the safety issues again since they have been covered well.

[ArmedBear]

The difference is not the base pin.

Well, there have been and there are commercial open-top revolvers, and they have the heavy base pin.

More accurate, I think, would be to state that cutting off the top strap, by itself, will be disastrous, and even with other modifications done in the best way imaginable, the gun won't stand up to a modern cartridge, for the reason you describe.

[Jubjub]

Just get one of the Cimmaron Richards-Mason replicas. Safe, affordable, and you get to have the fun of explaining to everyone that there is a cartridge known as the .44 Colt.

[AKCOP]

And you wonder why Ruger has the billboard on each firearm about reading the owners manual...

[ButchG17]

I have an Uberti made Cimmaron open top in .38 special, and it's a blast!

But I'd never cut down a Ruger or any other just to get an 'open top'.....it serves no purpose, and someone might actually fire a .357 magnum in it! :eek:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ButchG17/Cowboy/opentop004.jpg



Butch

[Dithsoer]

Well, although I genuinely appreciate all of your heartfelt comments and interest in my mental stability, my father just past away so I've lost all interest in the project. I specifically purchased the Ruger for the purpose stated above, and to be fired with black powder loads/cowboy action loads. So I now have a just about like-new (other than the pesky drag line around the cylinder from working the action) Ruger New Model Vaquero in .357 magnum for sale. It's been fired all of 18 times, three cylinders full of .38 special Magtechs. Could someone kindly give me an idea on what I should be asking for the gun?

[Virginian]

My sincere sympathy for your loss. Check Gun Broker and/or Guns America for price comparison(s).

[ButchG17]

Sorry to hear of the passing of your Dad Dithsoer.

Just stick that Ruger away for a while, you can always sell it later if you really don't want it, no hurry to sell it now is there?

[moewadle]

I would go to a set price gun site....GunsAmerica and see if you there are some nice used ones for sale and see what is being asked. Here in Iowa a brand new New Vaquero would probably be about $450 so maybe like new in box might be what 300-350? I am just guessing now.

[The Bushmaster]

Hey guys...Let him do this thing to that Ruger...We need the gene pool thinned out anyway...Found the "idea" on the internet...Figures...

[tallpaul]

Sorry about your loss-

keep the gun if ya can.... enjoy it when the pain of loss subsides. The time to rid oneself of stuff is not when ya are in mourning- if ya can help it.

[Brian Williams]

Not a great idea,
Sorry for your loss,

Stay safe.