Wolf Ammo?


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peck1234
March 7, 2008, 02:02 PM
(.223) I far as I can see wolf ammo is the cheapest, and that many have complaints about it....
Im geten my AR-15, and im wondering whos had good/bad results with this ammo? Some seem to hate it and others swear by it? Soo whats your personal opinion with wolf ammo?

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TexasRifleman
March 7, 2008, 02:11 PM
Fired tons of it in various ARs, never any problems.

It's a little less accurate and a lot dirtier, that's about all.

Some people have had extraction problems but, and I'm calling down the AR fanboy thunder here, it's probably an issue with their rifles as much as the ammo itself.

I shoot a lot of the .308 Wolf also. It's REALLY dirty, much worse than the .223 but still shoots OK in a PTR91.

strat81
March 7, 2008, 02:19 PM
From what I've read about Wolf and ARs:
-You can have problems with tight "match" chambers and normal use.
-You can have problems with any chamber if you get the barrel very hot, chamber a round, and let it sit in the hot chamber.

Consider a case of brass-cased ammo is $100+ more expensive than a case of Wolf, I wouldn't worry about breaking an extractor. In the unlikely event you do, the $100 savings will pay for a new extractor.

Other Wolf issues with ARs:
-Mediocre to terrible accuracy
-Occasional weak batches that may not cycle the action

I reload for my AR, so it doesn't see much Wolf. But I'd shoot it and not worry. I shoot a ton of cheap Russian ammo through my AK, but that's a different beast.

If you are afraid to shoot Wolf, buy cheap brass-cased stuff and sell the 1x-fired brass to reloaders here on THR or on Arfcom. Natchez has been advterising inexpensive brass cased .223 lately.

Magnuumpwr
March 7, 2008, 02:20 PM
Wolf ammo has always went bang when I pulled the trigger. Sure it is a little dirty, but that is why I own a cleaning kit. I bought my Bushy AR to tear things up not to drive tacks, so wolf is my AR's main fodder. Since wolf started poly coating their ammo, it poses even less of a problem in feeding and extracting as opposed to the laquer coatings of the past. You will hear people say it has poor accuracy, but like I said, if you want to drive tacks, you won't have a problem buying the ammo worthy of driving tacks. Forgot to mention, I have not noticed any problem with the ejector wearing from using the steel case ammo, no failure to load, fire, or eject. Buy plenty of mags and enjoy your AR-15.

J Lambs
March 7, 2008, 02:46 PM
I had some issues with the steel case in my Bushmaster. When I used a buddies lacquer cased, it worked fine. I am hoping after about 200 rounds of brass, I will be able to shoot the steel.

Lichter
March 7, 2008, 02:55 PM
My armalite has problems ejecting it, but I've shot alot of it through my friend's olympic with no problems

Savage Shooter
March 7, 2008, 07:38 PM
I shoot wolf ammo in my savage 12fv .223 it shoots dirtier than the devil but I own a cleaning kit might as well get to use it. It shoots fine for me never had any problems with it.

eldon519
March 7, 2008, 07:47 PM
I used to be a sworn advocate of Wolf. Never had any problems with it in thousands of rounds of .45 ACP. I've shot maybe 500 rounds of it in .223.

On one particular round in my AR-15, I fired the shot and nothing really happened except a small pop. I cycled the action and tried to fire again, but nothing happened again. I ended up checking the ejected rounds. The first round had lost the primer from the pocket and low and behold, there was no flash hole in the primer pocket. I found the spent primer on the ground too; it had basically blown itself out of the pocket. The gun didn't work quite right after that, so I stripped it at the range. When I got it back together and loaded up, the first couple rounds stuck in the chamber, but came out with a second try using the charging handle. Finally one came along the stuck and ripped the rim off. I've been wary of Wolf since.

That's my story. I don't know if it helps you make up your mind, but it was enough for me to try to avoid it, at least in rifles.

briansmithwins
March 7, 2008, 07:48 PM
Wolf is weak, dirty, and inaccurate. It's also cheap. I've run thru a few thousand rounds without any problems.

The nice thing about Wolf is that of an AR works with Wolf, it'll work with any .223 ammo. BSW

JWarren
March 7, 2008, 09:59 PM
I've seen people say that they have used Wolf in AR's in particular and had no trouble whatsoever. Others have had very bad stories of things like rounds sticking in the chamber, etc.

While this does not explain some of the stories, I have a theory about some of the stories I've seen about rounds sticking in chambers.

Bear in mind that this is a completely unverified theory based solely upon accounts that I've read.

Here it goes...


Many have stated that while they have no issues with Wolf in their ARs, they have had trouble with other brass cased ammunition in the aftermath of using Wolf.

My theory is that-- according to my reading-- the steel cased ammunition does not expand upon firing enough to completely seal the chamber-- resulting in some fouling of the chamber.

This would be no problem if a diet of steel cased ammuntion was all the rifle was fed. However... after getting a layer of fouling built up in the chamber, a more expansive brass case would find itself more tightly held in the chamber.

Outside of other issues such as mentioned above with the non-existent flash-hole, I suspect that an AR that used exclusively steel-cased ammunition -- and never brass-cased, would experience more reliability than one that uses both.

For this reason alone, I believe that I will not be shooting Wolf-- or any steel-cased ammunition-- in either my LR-308 or my soon-to-come-in AR-15.

I have no proof of my hypothesis, but I'd rather not test it in either of those $1,000+ rifles.


-- John

TheGunGuru
March 7, 2008, 10:09 PM
I shoot it almost exclusively at the range and practicing days. It never fails to fire or extract under normal conditions. I have had problems however when shooting until the gun is hot then setting it down with a round in the chamber until the barrel cooled. I think it is a problem with the laccor, like it melts or something or the steel expands under the heat more than a brass case would. Simple, and safer, solution, lock the bolt open when you stop shooting yet want to keep the mag in the gun still.

arcticap
March 7, 2008, 10:18 PM
Consider a case of brass-cased ammo is $100+ more expensive than a case of Wolf, I wouldn't worry about breaking an extractor. In the unlikely event you do, the $100 savings will pay for a new extractor.

I shopped aound, and bought a case of PMC 223A(new production, brass case, boxer primed) for $30 more than a case of Wolf would have cost by mail- cheaper than Wolf, or Ultramax reloads even, had I went to Dicks. It's all a matter of shopping around. Gun Deals (http://www.gun-deals.com/ammo.php) is your friend!

MD_Willington
March 7, 2008, 11:12 PM
My Saiga functions fine with it... sorry.. no AR yet.

Robo_Railer
March 7, 2008, 11:42 PM
My theory is that-- according to my reading-- the steel cased ammunition does not expand upon firing enough to completely seal the chamber-- resulting in some fouling of the chamber.

This would be no problem if a diet of steel cased ammuntion was all the rifle was fed. However... after getting a layer of fouling built up in the chamber, a more expansive brass case would find itself more tightly held in the chamber.
The guys at The Box o' Truth did some testing of that, and it was pretty much as JWarren said. It wasn't from residual lacquer or melted poly, it was from carbon leaking around the steel cases.
The worst problems seemed to be with using South African brass-cased .223 after the Wolf. Brass cases from other sources might not extract, but they usually didn't get chunks ripped out of their rims like the South African ammo. The theory was that the SA brass was too brittle rather than too soft.

Reading that this afternoon made me look a little more favorably on using Wolf for a couple of courses I might take next month. Those will require 800 rounds of .223 between the two of 'em, plus 500 rounds of .40 S&W. The budget is gonna be squeakin' for awhile. :uhoh:

EDIT: Forgot to mention I was thinking of carrying a magnet in my range box, to make it easier to "police up the brass." I know the cheap stuff isn't reloadable, but I don't go around leaving a mess on the firing line. ;)

gunman42782
March 8, 2008, 01:02 AM
I have no problems with it. I have fired many a round of Wolf downrange through my AR.

alaskanativeson
March 8, 2008, 01:48 AM
You may feel free to call me a gun snob. I refuse to put any steel case ammo into any of my guns unless it's a SHTF situation and I have nothing else to use.

When I go to a range and rent some of their guns I have no problem using it if they don't mind. There's a place in Springville, UT where I'd rent a full-auto MP5, a Glock 18, an Uzi, and an H&K UMP. I shot Wolf in them and didn't care. When it was time to pull out my own USP or Glock it was always loaded with something that had a brass case or at least Blazer stuff with the aluminum case.

peck1234
March 8, 2008, 01:48 AM
Thanks for all the help guys, really good comments!!! :) But one more question now! What brand of ammo does our military use? (USA MILITARY)

rangerruck
March 8, 2008, 02:13 AM
I like all wolf ammo, all variants, in bolt action rifles, and I like all variants, except steel cased 223, in ar's. In my opinion, even if your ar runs with it, it is putting a lot of stress on the extractor; simple physics of a steel case tells you this.

TexasRifleman
March 8, 2008, 10:51 AM
But one more question now! What brand of ammo does our military use? (USA MILITARY)

The ammo plant where most everything comes from is Lake City Army Ammunition Plant (LCAAP) in Missouri but basically it's in Kansas City for all practical purposes. It's technically owned by the US Government but it's operated by Alliant Techsystems under a long term contract.
Olin (Winchester) ran it for many many years. ATK is basically Federal once you dig through all the corporate BS.

There is another plant in Radford, VA called RAAP but it is not producing anything.

http://ifs1.imagefly.info/i/41/Gun%20Factory%2002.jpg


In WWII there were 16 plants making small arms ammo.
By the Korean Conflict it was down to 6.
5 were still operating during VietNam.
Now only the Lake City plant remains.

In fact the US has had to buy some extra ammo from Igman to meet their requirements. I understand most of the Igman ammo was issued to Iraqi troops using the M16 not our own but there isn't a lot of data on that.

I saw an Army PowerPoint last year titled "Small Arms Production Base" that gave some statistics for "max" capacities:

Lake City production capacity: 1.2B rounds a year (billion)
US Made substitutes from other commercial makers: 350M a year
NATO spec makers from the rest of the world: 500M a year


By the way, ATK stock is down a little. Thinking of buying some but I just am not sure.
Anyone play in the defense stocks?

nolyaw
March 8, 2008, 12:04 PM
I fired 500 rounds of wolf .223 straight thru in my DPMS A2 Ar-15. That was 17 30 round mags, one after the other, continually. The barrel turned white. Not one malf or failure. Its very cheap, so for going nuts its great. I have about 2K rounds stocked up.

JWarren
March 8, 2008, 02:54 PM
I fired 500 rounds of wolf .223 straight thru in my DPMS A2 Ar-15. That was 17 30 round mags, one after the other, continually. The barrel turned white. Not one malf or failure. Its very cheap, so for going nuts its great. I have about 2K rounds stocked up.


This supports my theory. Fire only steel case, and you are fine. Mix and Match, and you start having trouble.


-- John

tinygnat219
March 8, 2008, 05:44 PM
By the way, ATK stock is down a little. Thinking of buying some but I just am not sure.
Anyone play in the defense stocks?

Defense Stocks are basically a loser. I don't touch 'em outside of 100 shares of Smith and Wesson I picked up when it was 3 bucks and change a share.

Robo_Railer
March 8, 2008, 11:00 PM
In my opinion, even if your ar runs with it, it is putting a lot of stress on the extractor; simple physics of a steel case tells you this.Can you elaborate on that a little? It might be the last bit of info I need in order to make the decision to pass up Wolf even though it's probably the least expensive stuff out there.
BTW, I'd be using it in a Mini-14 rather than an AR-type, if that would make any difference.

Magnuumpwr
March 8, 2008, 11:28 PM
I own a mini and refuse to use Wolf in it. If the extractor fails, it cost more to repair than to just use brass case ammo. Tearing the Mini down is not as simple as pushing a pin and remove the bolt.

jpwilly
March 9, 2008, 01:54 AM
On the other hand my Dad and I fired 8 30rnd mags of Wolf 223 in my DPMS and partway into the 9th mag had one "stick" in the chamber a cleaning rod drove it out. This took place in less than 10 min. Brass case ammo has never had any issue like this. The rifle was fine we cleaned it and shoot the snot out of it - so far without any more issues.

DoubleTapDrew
March 9, 2008, 01:59 AM
except steel cased 223, in ar's. In my opinion, even if your ar runs with it, it is putting a lot of stress on the extractor; simple physics of a steel case tells you this.
It very well may be harder on the extractor than brass ammo. Take the money you save on your first case of wolf and buy 10 extractors. I've got several thousand rounds of wolf through mine and no problems. I agree with JWarren's theory though.

6inch
March 9, 2008, 11:44 AM
Wolf is my mainstay plinking ammo. I prefer Military Classic to Black Box but YMMV.

On a side note. I don't think Wolf is the best choice for new gun break-in ammo. By that I mean it's a weak load and new AR's, or other firearms for that matter, need a full load round (200-300) to help new parts seat and loosen up a little.

It's just my take on it. :)

Dbl0Kevin
March 9, 2008, 11:59 AM
I laugh to myself whenever the naysayers come on here bashing Wolf ammo in AR's. I've had 2 AR's that I've put a few thousand rounds of wolf ammo through. Of all those rounds I have had 0 misfires, 0 jams, 0 issues. As for accuracy I put my red dot sight where I want the bullet to go and every time it goes there. I've also shot .40 S&W Wolf through my numerous Glocks with 0 problems either.

The problem with Wolf is not the quality but FINDING IT!! It seems that in the past year or so finding someone that has it in stock in quantity is next to impossible in certain calibers. Namely .223 and .308. :(

NAK
March 9, 2008, 12:24 PM
I've put a couple of thousand rounds of Wolf through my Bushmaster without feed or ejection problems, but accuracy seemed to very greatly.

I had a batch that was particularly bad. I was going to pull the bullets and measure the power charge on a box of 20 rounds to see how consistent they were. Much to my surprise, some of the bullets came out with irregular gobs of black "stuff" on the tail of the bullet. You could not get it off with your finger-nail, so it could probably make it down the barrel..I'm sure it would effect the bullet flight by causing it to spin funny.

Anyone have an ideal what this might be?

W.E.G.
March 9, 2008, 12:37 PM
Some folks do OK with Wolf .223 in CHROME-LINED chambers.

For non chrome-lined chambers, Wolf is usually a train wreck.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/wolf5.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/wolf4.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/wolf3.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/wolf2.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/wolf1.jpg

MechAg94
March 9, 2008, 04:41 PM
I don't see to many people mention their barrel types when talking about problems.

My Armalite shoots it fine with a chrome lined barrel. The spare bolt w/ extractor was only about $50. I have never needed it.

JWarren
March 9, 2008, 05:04 PM
Hmmm... I haven't considered the effect of a Chrome-lined chamber and bore.

Should we make a new thread to explore that?


-- John

XD-40 Shooter
March 9, 2008, 06:16 PM
The only Wolf ammo I use is 7.62x39 Military Classic and black box 154 grain soft points, both have been great. This stuff runs great in SKS's, or AK's. I reload all of my 40 S&W pistol ammo, is superior to Wolf at 20 cents/round. My reloads run about 12 cents/round.

peck1234
March 9, 2008, 08:04 PM
found this on DPMS site.. shows rounds NOT TO SHOOT.. what the hell is lacquer? does wolf still use it?

Lacquer Coated Ammunition or Steel-cased, lacquer coated ammunition
Wolf
Norinco
Silver Bear
Any steel-cased (coated or non-coated) ammunition
The problem with this ammunition is that the lacquer coating on the case. As the barrel heats up, the lacquer turns to a soft, varnish substance and upon cool down, becomes very solid and difficult to remove. This effectively creates an undersized chamber and creates understandable problems.

DPMS recommends the use of high quality, domestically produced ammunition for best results and highest accuracy. For plinking and practice, we recommend only domestic, commercially manufactured ammunition or high quality surplus NATO specification ammunition.

Also when it says it can damage your extractor? Arent new ones like 8 bucks or somthing? What do they look like! (yes im new)

Bailey Guns
March 9, 2008, 09:06 PM
Anyone bought a new Bushmaster in the last few years? They put a sheet of paper in the case with the other paperwork that lists brands of ammo that cause problems or that has been problem-free. Wolf is on their list of problem-free ammo and I'd have to agree. I shoot lots of it when I can find it. Even through my Kimber...no problems. And I've never, ever replaced an extractor on any of my AR rifles. I guess I've just been lucky or I've had exceptionally good rifles.

NC-Mike
March 9, 2008, 09:29 PM
Some folks do OK with Wolf .223 in CHROME-LINED chambers.

For non chrome-lined chambers, Wolf is usually a train wreck.


I shot some Wolf MC that was actually started to rust through my mini-14. No problems.

I just ran 60 rounds of Wolf through my Sig 556 and not a hiccup. Its pretty darn accurate through that rifle too. :)

NC-Mike
March 9, 2008, 09:31 PM
Anyone bought a new Bushmaster in the last few years? They put a sheet of paper in the case with the other paperwork that lists brands of ammo that cause problems or that has been problem-free. Wolf is on their list of problem-free ammo and I'd have to agree.

They might have been talking about Wold Gold?

The manual also states you void your warranty if you use steel case ammo. :)

(which is just ridiculous)

TexasRifleman
March 9, 2008, 09:40 PM
what the hell is lacquer? does wolf still use it?

Old Wolf had a lacquer coating that some said came off under high chamber heat and left a mess in their rifles.

I never saw it do that personally but it doesn't matter now.

New Wolf has a polymer coating that doesn't come off at all.

Huddog
March 9, 2008, 10:11 PM
When I purchased my Bushmaster Christmas of 2005, I got a great deal on some Wolf .223. I have had no problems with it. It is reasonably accurate and I also shoot brass. I don't mix them on the same range session though and always clean between sessions.

no_problem
March 9, 2008, 10:13 PM
Wolf runs fine in all three of my AR's.

Bushmaster 20"
Colt Commando
Doublestar M4

Bailey Guns
March 9, 2008, 10:32 PM
This is a link to Bushmaster's "Ammunition Advisory":

http://www.bushmaster.com/documentation/AmmoAdvisory.pdf

Notice it doesn't differentiate between "Wolf" or "Wolf Gold". It just says "Wolf".

The manual also states you void your warranty if you use steel case ammo.

I can't find anything in the manual or on the Bushmaster website that says using steel cased ammo will void the warranty so you're gonna have to provide some sort of proof before I'll believe that. It does say the use of "improper" ammunition will void the warranty.

NC-Mike
March 9, 2008, 10:55 PM
Quote:
The manual also states you void your warranty if you use steel case ammo.

I can't find anything in the manual or on the Bushmaster website that says using steel cased ammo will void the warranty so you're gonna have to provide some sort of proof before I'll believe that. It does say the use of "improper" ammunition will void the warranty.

It seems I am wrong. I know I have a rifle where the warranty states "use only good quality, brass cased, non-imported ammunition and I was sure it was the Bushmaster.

Now I have to find out where I saw that. Sorry for the confusion and thanks for pointing out the error. :)

paintballdude902
March 9, 2008, 11:02 PM
anyone know how close the .308 is to nato spec 7.62?

is it safe to shoot in my ishy 2a enfield?

NC-Mike
March 9, 2008, 11:34 PM
anyone know how close the .308 is to nato spec 7.62?

is it safe to shoot in my ishy 2a enfield?

http://www.thegunzone.com/30cal.html

MD_Willington
March 10, 2008, 04:06 AM
I just packed up 1000 rounds of Silver Bear... ZINC plated steel cases, came in a box 5.56..

The rest of my .223 is HSM reloads and Remington...

Infantryman
March 10, 2008, 01:02 PM
If you want to shoot cheap ammo get a AK. I like both AKs & AR-15's. Both are very durable and depenable, but if you somehow manage to ruin a AK your out $400 instead of $1,000

TexasRifleman
March 10, 2008, 01:03 PM
is it safe to shoot in my ishy 2a enfield?

I would NOT NOT NOT shoot 7.62 Nato in an Ishy.

That is the specific rifle named as having lots of bad things happen.

Normally it's no big deal but that particular one can get you in trouble.

peck1234
March 10, 2008, 01:28 PM
ok soo ive finally made my decision to shoot only brass.... So who makes the cheapest brass ammo around? Im shooten (.223) targets only.....

TexasRifleman
March 10, 2008, 01:36 PM
So who makes the cheapest brass ammo around?

Wolf again usually. The "Wolf Gold" line is brass cased. Prvi Partizan makes it I think.

It was cheapest last time I looked.

peck1234
March 10, 2008, 02:34 PM
thanks.... :)

xringer3
March 10, 2008, 02:38 PM
Sorry, but I've seen too many rugers blown extractors and ARs with peeled back receivers. I've got too much money invested in my gun to shoot it in mine!

NC-Mike
March 10, 2008, 10:32 PM
Quote:

The manual also states you void your warranty if you use steel case ammo.

I can't find anything in the manual or on the Bushmaster website that says using steel cased ammo will void the warranty so you're gonna have to provide some sort of proof before I'll believe that. It does say the use of "improper" ammunition will void the warranty.

It seems I am wrong. I know I have a rifle where the warranty states "use only good quality, brass cased, non-imported ammunition and I was sure it was the Bushmaster.

Now I have to find out where I saw that. Sorry for the confusion and thanks for pointing out the error.


OK, I knew I saw it somewhere. Its DPMS that states use of steel cased ammo will void your warranty. I was sure Bushmaster had the same policy at one time.

http://www.dpmsinc.com/support/warning.aspx

For plinking and practice, we recommend only domestic, commercially manufactured ammunition. Please note: the use of re-loaded ammunition voids the factory warranty. The use of all ammunition listed below also voids the warranty.

3-

Lacquer Coated Ammunition or Steel-cased, lacquer coated ammunition
Wolf
Norinco
Silver Bear
Any steel-cased (coated or non-coated) ammunition

Robo_Railer
March 11, 2008, 12:17 AM
Sorry, but I've seen too many rugers blown extractors and ARs with peeled back receivers. I've got too much money invested in my gun to shoot it in mine!Are you referring to Wolf ammo in general, or just the steel-cased stuff?

I know this question should be a whole new thread, but where do we find bulk PMC or equivalent 55 gr. FMJ for less than 36 per round, plus shipping? The only stuff that I've seen lately that's still under 30 (.27/.28/.29 before shipping costs) is Wolf. :banghead:

peck1234
March 11, 2008, 12:45 AM
From what i understand, WOLF STEEL CASEd AMMO IS THE CHEAPEST AMMO U CAN GET UR HANDS ON. The next cheapest is wolf gold ammunition with brass cased ammo...(what i will be using when i reicive my AR)

xringer3
March 11, 2008, 10:47 AM
Sorry Robo, I was referring to the Wolf Ammo. After seeing guns destroyed with it on my ranges, I haven't allowed any steel case ammo. It's all pretty much made the same, just put in different packages.

Robo_Railer
March 11, 2008, 03:34 PM
Okay, thanks, XRinger. I'll probably just bite the bullet ( :p ) and go with something like the Sportsman's Guide deal for 820 rounds of PMC. I can get Club Price on that, so it'd be less than the ~$350 list. Looks like almost $20 for shipping, but that'd be with 500 rounds of .40 S&W and some other stuff in the same order.

As long as UPS doesn't deliver it when Her Wifeliness is home, I won't end up stuffed into the free .50 cal. can that they pack the .223 boxes in. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/Doug_C_Maine/Smileycons/wife.gif :uhoh:

Ignition Override
March 13, 2008, 02:30 AM
Having mostly begun plinking last October (several times with .22 when young-decades ago), recently bought new M-1 Carbine and used Ruger Mini 14, and am now a real Mini fan :). Have read lots and chatted with gun store staff about major complaints about Mini 30s, but like the idea of a large round in a Mini. Accuracy means little to me.

I will never be fighting a criminal at more than 25-100 feet (if only on the defensive...;) but just got two Mosins:)) even if we have an earthquake or 'uncivil' insurrection, shutting the area down for many days. Might learn to hunt feral pigs with somebody seasoned.

Have read lots on the infamous Mini 30 (terrible acc., most mags etc) and might find a used one. In order to plink often at the lowest cost, Wolf ammo looks attractive. If you clean your gun chamber with nitro solvent right when you finish shooting, would it prevent lacquer build-up, or does it sometimes happen during your first 1-2 ammo boxes such that it can still jam the chamber when really hot?
Reloading might save money: how long does it take to reload about 100 rounds if somebody helps train you?

NG VI
March 13, 2008, 02:12 PM
In regards to not mixing steel and brass cased ammo, is it a bad idea to ever use both in the same rifle, or is it OK as long as the rifle gets a thorough cleaning after firings?

Just wondering because I just bought 300 rounds of wolf 62grain .223 for 89.55, wondering if it was wasted money or not. and where can I find brass-cased wolf?

Robo_Railer
March 13, 2008, 08:29 PM
The primary problems reported seemed to be due to firing brass cased ammo after firing the steel stuff. The worst instances seemed to be one particular source of brass, possibly with brittle cases. See this experiment by the guys at The Box O' Truth (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm).

Maybe if the carbon "tar" got completely cleaned out of the chamber, then brass could be shot after steel without a problem. The alternative might be to burn up any brass first, then the steel.

Just about any source that has Wolf steel should have Wolf brass. One hint when looking for it: I think you'll find that anything with "Berdan primed" in its description is more likely to be steel or something else not reloadable.

peck1234
March 14, 2008, 12:41 AM
I would shoot wolf steel cased ammo. But DPMS states not to use any steel cased ammo with any of their rifles. Im all brass.!

Ignition Override
March 15, 2008, 02:59 PM
How about Yugoslavian brass-cased ammo?

The brass might have no coating, but if it has corrosive primers, i.e. 7.62x39 in a Mini 30, do we just pour Windex down the barrel after shooting (as with the Mosin), and wipe out the receiver area, then wipe clean?

RoboRailer: outstanding graphics.

Mnd the Box 'O Truth was educational. so the carbon build-up is worse with steel before brass. But...brass then steel in my Mini 30 might work much better? It arrives in less than two weeks, I hope (have a Mini 14, so far no problem with 300+ rounds of new grey-colored Wolf ammo, my only used Mini 14 glitches: total 2 misfeeds...but could with be with Remington).

BigGunsMoreFun
March 15, 2008, 03:26 PM
I know Wolf is by far cheaper than other ammo for most calibers. There is a reason for that. It's not very accurate. It very dirty. It does not feed well in semi-autos. The steel cased ammo is absolute garbage unless you use it in an old revolver and shoot less than 15 yards. At least that has been my experience with it.

I don't care much for the Russian Silver Bear ammo either. It's about the same as Wolf.

I have found that Prvi Partizan is decent ammo for the price. It's not as cheap as Wolf but it is much cleaner, more accurate and still a little cheaper than the run of the mill expensive american made ammo. The Prvi Partizan uses better brass and usually handles about 5 or 6 reloads before the brass becomes un-usable. By the way, I am not knocking american ammo. I always buy the good stuff when I am doing any competition or other serious shooting. I just buy the cheapest, reliable ammo I can for plinking and target practice, etc. to save a few bucks for that next gun to add to the collection.

Molon Labe,
Joe
:)

Ignition Override
March 15, 2008, 03:30 PM
How about Yugoslavian brass-cased ammo?

The brass might have no coating, but if it has corrosive primers, i.e. 7.62x39 in a mini 30, do we just pour Windex down the barrel after shooting (as with the Mosin), and wipe out the receiver area, then wipe clean?

AgentOrange
March 15, 2008, 08:37 PM
i shot some of that wolf 223 junk in my bushmaster carbon 15 today and i have to say that it has to be the worst ive ever shot in 223. my bushy usually shoots 1/2" groups at 150-200 yards all day, but that wolf ammo shot groups about 3x the size of a pie plate.....terrible. i also bought some stuff today called "ultramax" 55gr soft point 223. i bought it for 13.00 a 50rd box on clearance, and for cheap ammo, that had to be the B-E-S-T ive ever shot ( exept for my own personal reloads). brass cases too, so reloadable.

i guess it all depends on what your gun likes i guess.

i have personally never bought any ammo n the USA that was corosive. not saying its not out there, ive just never ran across any

KD7ONE
March 15, 2008, 10:08 PM
I have put hundreds of rounds through my SKS with only 1 dud. So far I like it.

Robo_Railer
March 16, 2008, 12:48 AM
I hadn't heard of the Windex thing until now, I.O., but I did find numerous references to it on the 'Net. I knew of the hot water trick from years ago, when a buddy and I fired some surplus ammo through our .45s. It might not have been from the era when corrosive primers were the norm, but we weren't taking any chances. :scrutiny:
The guy at the Snowflakes In Hell Blog (http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/03/27/windex-is-better) told about one unsatisfactory experience with hot water, and offers some ideas as to why Windex works so well. Somebody also referenced a tip from the Box O' Truth (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu13.htm). Also mentioned is something about why the Russians use steel cases. One small error I noted is that it's lead styphnate, not "syphnate," in primers.

So I think you're right, rinse that crud outta there before leaving the range, and follow up with a good clean-and-lube when you get home.
Something else that occurred to me: If firearms lubed with Weapon Shield (http://www.weaponshield.com) are reported to clean up more easily after WS has been applied in a previous cleaning, could it also help protect against salt deposits?

NC-Mike
March 16, 2008, 12:53 AM
i also bought some stuff today called "ultramax" 55gr soft point 223. i bought it for 13.00 a 50rd box on clearance, and for cheap ammo, that had to be the B-E-S-T ive ever shot ( exept for my own personal reloads). brass cases too, so reloadable.


I've got about 750 rounds of that stuff. I was afraid to shoot it after some dudes AR blew up using Ultra Max last year.

Most people will tell you that Ultra Max is crap but I also had very nice groupings using that ammo. The brass they use is once-shot Lake City so
it is reloaded ammo. You should be able to get at least three more reloads out of each case if your rifle don't blow up first. :)

SpeedAKL
March 16, 2008, 01:48 AM
I'm using a chrome-lined bore and chamber on my AR and Wolf does just fine. It's dirty and not overly accurate, but I like to clean up my AR after range runs anyway to keep it fresh, so it doesn't annoy me too much. I've run hundreds of rounds of Wolf through it and only had one jam.

Robo_Railer
March 16, 2008, 12:54 PM
I was getting ready to say $13 a box wasn't all that great, but for a box of 50, it is. Doing the math (with a calculator, of course; I'm math-impaired), that comes out to 26 a round. That's about the best you can find these days, and that price is generally for Wolf steel. Getting a deal like that on 1,000 rounds of the better stuff, without shipping charges, would make me a very happy camper.
Just spotted an auction for a case of Prvi 55 gr., 32 a round before shipping. That's better than the 41 (with Club price) for PMC from Sportsman's Guide that I had been considering. Guess I'll go Googling for Prvi and Ultramax.

Re accuracy issues: Anyone tried a little heavier bullet? Even Wolf is producing some 62 gr. loads now for 5,56, and some barrels might prefer those.

jpwilly
March 16, 2008, 01:06 PM
YES wolf runs fine I agree it does BUT if you get a Non-Chrome lined Chamber really hot and put a Laquer coated Wolf Steel Case round in the chamber it can and will stick. It does the same thing in a Mosin Nagant etc etc. The rules don't change for AR's

NC-Mike
March 16, 2008, 02:56 PM
Re accuracy issues: Anyone tried a little heavier bullet? Even Wolf is producing some 62 gr. loads now for 5,56, and some barrels might prefer those.

The only way is to try. Barrel twist rates also come into play. Faster twist like 1 in 7 likes a heavy bullet. 1 in 9 or 1 in 10 should like 55 gr or even smaller.

If you really want to see how accurate your rifle is, do not use Wolf ammo. Get some good stuff like Black Hills.

Cesiumsponge
March 16, 2008, 04:22 PM
AgentOrange
i shot some of that wolf 223 junk in my bushmaster carbon 15 today and i have to say that it has to be the worst ive ever shot in 223. my bushy usually shoots 1/2" groups at 150-200 yards all day

:scrutiny:

What did you do to your carbon 15 carbine to get it shooting 1/2" at 200 yards "all day"? What handloads are you running? What optics? What work?

That is 1/4MOA. Bushmaster doesn't even guarantee their match/varmint rifles to that. In fact, I can only think of one company that sells an accurized bolt-action with 1/4MOA factory guarantee. People with their $6000 AI AWs and accurized Rem 700's running perfected hand loads and $3000 optics would be overjoyed if they could consistently get 1/2" groups at 200 yards.

peck1234
March 17, 2008, 02:42 PM
Are the Horandys TAP ammo steel cased? Scroll down then click more info on the bullet.

https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session=df107af0d341f58bd6db223349a5d285&page=shop%2Fbrowse&category_id=f5a8f338ed2cc84911aec57bb74a84a5

NG VI
March 17, 2008, 03:56 PM
I don't think so, I'm pretty sure it's just the tactical case lubricant to ensure ultimate feeding.

peck1234
March 17, 2008, 08:04 PM
thanks NG VI :)

AnthonyC.
March 18, 2008, 03:28 PM
So can sombody explain to me why most people don't use wolf in their bolt actions? I am not sure I really understand.....:confused:

Halo
March 18, 2008, 03:43 PM
So can sombody explain to me why most people don't use wolf in their bolt actions? I am not sure I really understand.....

A lot of people don't like to shoot lacquer coated ammo in bolt actions because once the chamber gets hot, it can melt the lacquer into a gooey gel that might make the bolt hard to open. My M44 used to do that but a thorough scrubbing of the chamber seems to have eliminated the problem.

AnthonyC.
March 18, 2008, 03:46 PM
So what other cheap ammo is there for .223 that I could shoot out of a bolt action for practice besides wolf? I have heard of ultra-max but the only place that sells it near me is GanderMtn...:banghead: And most people know how they all jack up their prices.

wdlsguy
March 18, 2008, 04:04 PM
So what other cheap ammo is there for .223 that I could shoot out of a bolt action for practice besides wolf?
Cheap .223 ammunition is an oxymoron these days. Since you're shooting a bolt action, you should consider reloading.

AnthonyC.
March 18, 2008, 04:09 PM
thats going to be another $500 to get started isn't it? and will it really save me enough money? Also I don't even know how to reload.

TexasRifleman
March 18, 2008, 04:32 PM
and will it really save me enough money?

Reloading will save you money eventually. It depends very much on how much you shoot and what you shoot.

As for learning how there are tons of articles and videos, it's pretty straightforward.

The thing lately however is component prices are moving up at a faster pace than fully loaded ammo so the gap is narrowing.

It's still cheaper in quantity, just depends on how much you shoot.

wdlsguy
March 18, 2008, 04:47 PM
thats going to be another $500 to get started isn't it?

Not necessarily: Classic Lee Loader (http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1205869542.1019=/html/catalog/cleeloader.html)

Halo
March 18, 2008, 04:54 PM
I bought my Rockchucker Master Kit for about $200, around 2000 or 2001. It has everything you need except the dies and components. I don't know how much money I've really saved, but that's not really why I got into reloading. I just enjoy everything that goes into it, and you can tailor a load to your particular gun that will yield accuracy no factory load can touch.

But as wdlsguy said, cheap ammo is becoming an oxymoron these days. Your best bet for factory ammo is to try and find some surplus stuff, if your .223 will permit use of 5.56 military ammo.

Offwhite
March 18, 2008, 07:54 PM
I have a Colt AR15 with a bull barrel & never had problems with extracting an empty cartridge but I have had a couple of miss fires that have caused a couple of hand-ups. Plus like everyone else has said its dirty as hell & with something like Federal Match I can fit a better grouping at 100 & on up yards. Anything lower it doesn't reallly matter. But I did go through about 200+ rounds of Wolf amo just this Sunday, just for the hell of it, for pretty cheap, so make of it what you will.

AnthonyC.
March 18, 2008, 08:01 PM
Gander Mtn has some pretty good prices on wolf Military classic, I don't know if this is 5.56 or real .223? Also the prices right now is 3.50 a box of 20 so I figured I could shoot as much as I want if I could shoot that. I am just not sure If a bolt-gun could handle these rounds.

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