Reload or buy Wolf?


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hornadylnl
March 8, 2008, 12:46 PM
I've already got all of the equipment I need. I reload on a Hornady LNL AP. I've got around 1500 223 bullets and 3-4 pounds of surplus 844 powder with no brass or primers left. I obviously will buy the primers and brass to finish those 1500 rounds out but to buy all the components, I can't reload for less than what it costs to buy Wolf ammo. I know that I can save the brass obviously but I don't shoot much. I mostly reload for teotwawki so it is hard to justify the extra money, not to mention time reloading it.

Here is the current price breakdown that I'm finding for 223.
Brass from Brassman $65 per k for Remington
Primers at Sportsmans Warehouse $27 per k
Powder at Sportsmans Warehouse $15.50 per # of Ramshot
Bullets vary $60 per k

I will obviously keep my reloading setup but for the time being, I will probably buy Wolf or whatever. I'm also needing a few k of 7.62x39 and can't possibly reload it for the price of Wolf or Golden Tiger. I can buy Wolf Locally for under $210 a k after tax.

I've got about $1300 to spend and was really thinking about getting an HK 91 clone and at least 100 G3 mags. Now I can't decide whether I should buy that or more ammo.

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presspuller
March 8, 2008, 12:52 PM
I would look at it this way,,,,Do you like to reload?
If so then I would reload, if not then buy it already put together. If you don't enjoy reloading its not really worth the trouble, at least to me.
It is obvious that you are not after the best performing ammo for your rifle so building the best ammo doesn't seem to be at the top of your list. That is one big reason to reload and if its not there then I don't know if I would bother.

ants
March 8, 2008, 12:54 PM
Buy Wolf. All of you should buy Wolf.

That way you don't compete with me for brass, primers, bullets, powder, etc.

Thank you most kindly.

Tim the Enchanter
March 8, 2008, 12:59 PM
The HK clones have fluted chambers, which are hard on brass. You wouldn't get a lot of use of your cases before having to get new ones. +1 for Wolf.

Dave R
March 8, 2008, 02:23 PM
Yup. I have reloaded for my CETME (cousin to HK) just to say I did it. But the flutes really are hard on brass, so I would shoot Wolf in that. Wolf .308 seems to better than Wolf .223, in my experience. At least, my CETME shoots it well.

Chris Rhines
March 8, 2008, 02:52 PM
Wolf ammo is generally filthy, inaccurate, unreliable, and underpowered. I would not even consider it for training ammo, much less for something important.

By your own calculations, you can crank out .223 ammo for something like $170/thousand. Wolf costs $210/thousand. Why would you pay $50/thou more for lesser ammo?

This is coming from someone who hates reloading, by the way.

- Chris

evan price
March 8, 2008, 07:06 PM
First, you need to think big.

Reloading may soon be the only way to get ammo if some people have their way. What to do when .223 is $.50 a round like .308?

Second, you need to buy big. Why waste money buying powder 1# at a time? Rifle takes so much powder- buy it by the 8-lb keg. I would say buy A 1# can to get the can, then refill it from your 8# keg of the same powder. Powder Valley has the best prices I can find.

The same goes for primers. You can get 5000 Wolf primers for $90 from Powder Valley. That's $18/k.

Now you will have to pay shipping & hazmat, but if you order enough, or find another reloader or three to piggyback your order you spread that around and it isn't bad.

Buy your projos in bulk from wherever you can find them- Wideners, for example, and buy them by the 2000 lot.

Currently I can do .223 for $150/thousand. I don't own a .223 rifle, but my F-I-L does. AND I know the ammo is consistent, tuned to his gun, and can be duplicated any time.

They are right about the fluted chambers eating brass, though. I have a bucket of CETME'd .308- just getting the grease and carbon off takes a long stint in the tumbler, then the dented necks and mouths, and the sometimes crushed sides...

hornadylnl
March 8, 2008, 07:54 PM
I do buy stuff in bulk. I bought an 8# jug of 844 from Hi tech last Oct. at Knob Creek. It was $92 then. They show $99 now. I bought 2500 223 bullets from them as well. I can buy 8# of Ramshot for $120 local.

Your $170 price is too low. That $15.50 was for only 1 pound of powder. It will take almost 4# to do 1k so it is over $200.

I haven't checked handgun component prices but I'm sure it is still way cheaper to reload them. UMC is at least $15 per 50 and I was reloading them for around $5. Handgun ammo is way overpriced.

I will definitely keep my reloading stuff as there will come a time when reloading becomes way cheaper than buying ammo again. Kind of like the electric vs. gas heating situation.

I will most likely buy Golden Tiger or Brown Bear for 7.62x39. I hear they are way better than Wolf.

qajaq59
March 9, 2008, 07:16 AM
Wolf ammo is generally filthy, inaccurate, unreliable, and underpowered. But other then that it's ok? :D :D

Kevin108
March 9, 2008, 09:40 AM
I've never found Wolf to be cheaper than WWB from Walmart...

stubbicatt
March 9, 2008, 09:42 AM
As for the fluted chambers, I've been shooting a PTR91 for awhile now. With the addition of the port buffer, the condition of my brass, if I can find it, has been tip top. Not even exhibiting any stretching.

I'm using military brass which is probably more robust than commercial. The downside of the rifles isn't so much the fluted chamber as it is the vigorous extraction which really puts a hickey on the brass where it strikes on the rear of the ejection port or on the front leg of your claw mount.

The port buffer is your very good friend.

One of the things I've remarked about this rifle is that brass fired in this rifle doesn't take much force to resize, and even fired brass will fit in a chamber gage showing proper headspace. Based on the lack of any measureable dimension changes to fired brass, I suspect that the brass fired in this rifle will last a very very long time.

Maybe other HK clones or HK rifles do differently, and maybe my luck is good for once.

To the OP, handloading your ammo is just worth it if you take the time to find components and combinations your 223 likes. I have found that the Hornady 55 gr. FMJ is capable of excellent accuracy. Ramshot TAC powder is a good value at $95 for 8# here (www.powdervalleyinc.com). Buy your primers in 5000 lots, and buy brass in bulk. The savings in money is measureable over Wolf ammo, AND the satisfaction of shooting excellent ammo is yours to enjoy when you reload.

My 2 cents worth anyways.

Uncle Chan
March 9, 2008, 10:25 AM
I reload my .223 for 18.9 cents/rnd. Wolf comes out to about 30 cents/rnd.

win308
March 9, 2008, 04:43 PM
As far as wolf for 7.62x39....be sure to get the Militaty Classic.

ArchAngelCD
March 10, 2008, 12:35 AM
With the component cost numbers you posted it will cost you $207.30 for the first 1,000 rounds of .223 because you have to buy the Brass. The next 1,000 will cost you only $142.30 because you already have the Brass. I don't know how many times you can reload a .223 case but if you can reload them 6X your average cost for 7K rounds will be $151.58/1K. I checked "Ammo To Go" and they have Wolf .223 for $259.95/1K plus $23.50 Shipping. You can't tell me you think it's better to order ammo for $283.45/1K instead of loading the ammo for almost half that price...

somerled
March 10, 2008, 01:47 AM
I reload .223 Remington on my Dillon 550B. Once I have a supply of clean cases, it takes far less time to load ammunition that to go some place and buy it. I still buy some 55 or 62 grain ball ammunition, but I buy stuff that is brass and boxer primed so it can be reloaded.

Sometime in the future we might not be able to buy cheap, imported ammo.

rundm
March 10, 2008, 04:35 AM
you need to go with the wolf primers to lower the cost of your rounds. powder valley has them on the cheap about 90 bucks plus hazmat and shipping for the 5k. order up some powder with that and you are on your way. widners also has bulk aa2230 for 100.00 or so if you buy 4 8lb jugs of it. they also have some killer deals on 55gr fmj. that stuff would set you up for much cheaper than you can buy wolf. RG

hornadylnl
March 18, 2008, 05:55 PM
I just ordered 25k of Wolf primers and 2 8# jugs of Ramshot Exterminator from Wideners today and 4 8# jugs of 844 from Pat's today as well. I figured up with those prices and the processed brass I just bought, I can still do it for less than $230 per k.

I need to buy a Giraud and be done with it.

fireflyfather
March 18, 2008, 11:40 PM
Powder valley: Picking up my share of a group buy tomorrow. Think more like 20k primers and 8 or 16lbs of powder (depending on local storage ordinances). That makes the hazmat and shipping worth it. With powder valley's low prices to begin with, can't be beat. Also, they don't ding you twice on the hazmat for primers & powder. They will lump it into one hazmat tag. Hell, our shipment came in at over 100lbs. I think the max is 44lbs per hazmat tag.

Honestly, I'd say buy up a BUTTLOAD of primers and powder. You can always cast your own lead bullets yourself if need be. Brass is good too. You can buy the rifle later, the rifle cost probably won't go up too much. You will have a few months to buy it even if an AWB comes into being. Ammo prices are probably still going to keep rising dramatically.

DWARREN123
March 19, 2008, 01:27 AM
If you want good ammo built for you firearm then reload, if you want plinking/range ammo then buy Wolf.

Ignition Override
May 20, 2008, 08:51 PM
Chris R.: Just some observations from a novice.

Admittedly I'm much newer (and much older)at shooting than almost anybody else on various rifle forums.
Despite some advice to the contrary, bought a used Mini 14 and 30 in January. Already had a Mosin 91/30 and 44. Then got an unfired Norinco SKS for about $200! My wife became concerned....:scrutiny:
Although I would prefer to support American companies, without the lower-priced Wolf ammo (and better yet- former Warsaw Pact Bulg. 7.62x54R), I never would have bought any of these rifles except for the Mosins.

The Wolf .223 has worked pretty well in the Mini 14, although I'm just a plinker and have never analyzed shooting patterns or used sandbags etc. It has fed/fired/ejected practically every time with about four stovebolts out of 500 rds. In the Mini 30, maybe four Wolf rounds did not fire, but those Russian primers are always said to be hard.

shootinxd
May 20, 2008, 10:25 PM
You will have GREAT pleasure shooting the ammo YOU load and not having to clean up the mess from wolf ammo.Been reloading for 6 months and load,shoot my stuff and its great.

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