less than lethal


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yosarian
March 9, 2008, 01:18 PM
I am looking for options for less than lethal options for my wife.No matter how much I try she will not take the time to go to the range and be more comfortable carrying a pistol.So as a comprimise she said she would carry a stungun and pepper spray.I'm curious if any here has purchased these products and what works and what doesn't.My wife and I have spoken about the importance of rule #1, stay out of situations that would require her using anything as that is the best defense.So gentlemen what say you?

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gbran
March 9, 2008, 01:55 PM
Anything is better than nothing.

fearless leader
March 9, 2008, 02:16 PM
How would you rate her physical agility?

If she has good to excellent physical agility, an ASP baton is less leathal and properly applied WILL take the wind out of someones sails.
My daughter likes steel toed boots (she's somewhat of a 'tom boy'). She aims for shins, knees and crotch.

Not so agile? Tasers, while pricey, have been turning in good results.

I'm not a pepper spray fan, as I have seen it fail to spray, leaving my girlfriend virtually defensless. Some guy tried to pull her into a cab one night and she couldn't get the spray canister to work. He saw her point it so he fled, but that was just luck.

I tried it and it only sprayed a small cloud, about 3 inches, like a breath spray.

It was my spray, and she was borrowing it, but if it failed me, I had a Sig 226 and 6 mags to back it up. For that reason, I would suggest that she might also have a back up strategy. The intended target may not be impressed with her Less Leathal Weapon.

I would also avoid a knife, as I don't want anyones bodily fluids on me that I can avoid. I nearly got into fisticuffs with a cross dresser who agressed me in a parking lot. I had my hand on some brass knuckles, intending to break the ribs under the right arm if I had to.
I called police and it ended without incident. They said he was a very good fighter and would have probably "handed me my head", or I would have certainly been hurt. 4 months later he died of Advanced AIDS. Could you imagine your wife defending herself against an adversary with bloodbourne disease with a knife? Not pretty. At least an Air Taser works from 15 feet from your target!

doc2rn
March 9, 2008, 02:17 PM
I would recommend the Kimber- 2 shot pepperfoam system, and the taser gun. I also recommend for those that carry a back pack to place part of a level 2 body armor system inside. Also have her consider a S&W or Baretta auto-assist folder knife.

fearless leader
March 9, 2008, 02:20 PM
Oops!

Geacko
March 9, 2008, 03:06 PM
My girlfriend wanted a stun gun for when she's on campus at night. I think a .38 would be better, but would never encourage her to break the law. Unfortunately, according to the UPD, it is also illegal to carry a stun gun on campus. (Still trying to verify)
So, she carries a couple of knives that I got for her, they fit her hand very well and are fairly concealable.

Pat-inCO
March 9, 2008, 04:11 PM
The Kimber Lifeact (http://www.life-act.com/guardianangel.php) would be an excellent choice. Also known as the "Guardian Angel" (the other option looks like a gun, thus would not be a good choice).

The web page in the link also has a map of the states that restrict usage. :)

Ragnar Danneskjold
March 9, 2008, 04:54 PM
fearless leader, do you normally carry 6 spare mags?

yosarian
March 9, 2008, 05:02 PM
Great guys thanks for the suggestions.Yes my wife is in great physicaly shape.She is also of legal carry age but lacks any real practice or training. I have been trying to get her to the range but no dice.Someone mentioned a knife,I feel thats a great weapon for someone who has training but not so good for someone with no training. The situation as it stands is my wife works mostly days,however 2 nights a week she gets out late(12am),she always travels where there are crowds(we live on south beach),but I would still feel better if she had something rather than nothing.Funny after she read some of the respones she asked if she could go to the range. :banghead:

Bones11b
March 9, 2008, 05:21 PM
I like what I have seen or heard ofsome of the more advanced non lethal detterents on the market nowadays. Having no experience first hand with them I wont give my opinion on them. I have used and encouraged the use of ASP batons as Fearless mentioned. A good strike will easily break a grown mans arm. I also understand the dangers of blood bourne viruses having served some time in uniform. Yet the threat of such viruses still does not deter me in the use of edged weapons. Untrained you can get yourself into a bad situation, yet this is usually only if the attaker is aware you have said edged weapon. I would suggest a good folding knife even if only as a back up to other less lethal devices. Either used when all else fails, or after the threat is inside the "kill zone" an edged weapon can be as if not more deadly than a firearm. If laws or regulations are strict I suggest a box cutter. I know this may seem unorthodox or even "ghetto" by some but the fact is it works. A standard box cutter is very compact, very inexpensive, and very simple to operate. The blades can be replaced often at little cost or effort, ensuring you always have a sharp cutting edge. Anyone who has seen injuries inflicted by a box cutter can atest to the fact that they are very deadly weapons.

yosarian
March 9, 2008, 05:49 PM
Mr.Bones thank you I never thought about a knife that way,looks like in addition to anything I may buy a good knife will be on the list as well.In addition to weapons I have explained to her, her best defense is staying aware and being proactive if she gets an odd feeling.

DPris
March 9, 2008, 10:00 PM
Stun guns require hands-on proximity & can easily be defeated by a large assailant.
Knives are a very bad idea without training & also require hands-on proximity.
OC is probably one of the best non-firearms choices, but it has to be a quality brand with good OC percentage & good spray pattern or foam range.
Taser is very effective, but can be bulky. Range estimation can be tricky & target acquisition if one or both parties are moving around can also be difficult. You'll get one try & if you miss it's over.
Denis

Geacko
March 9, 2008, 10:21 PM
Knives, like everything else, are more effective with training. Some require more training than others. For that reason, I gave my girlfriend my Spyderco SPOT.

www.botachtactical.com/spydercospot.html

With her finger through the loop she's unlikely to drop it or have it pulled from her hand. And the shape is such that if she just makes a fist and punches she'll cut up the attacker pretty badly.

Hopefully the site will scare would-be attacker away, an in any case it's better than a whistle.

hso
March 9, 2008, 10:31 PM
If she's not willing to train, then her best bet is one of the sprays or a tazer. Problem is that she probably doesn't have the mindset to use them because she doesn't accept that there's a reasonable potential for having to protect herself.

OTOH, getting her into a real martial arts program that's based on real fighting as a form of exercise that will give her skills, speed and determination just might be possible. The training will open her thinking to self defense and may help her see the limitations of being tool-less when physically outclassed.

ray_ray
March 10, 2008, 07:27 AM
A good pepperspray is problebly the best, but i cant understand how so many can say that the Kimber life-act guardian angel is the best choice two shoots and your out and under stress and an assault thats most likley to happen that you just miss your target, they suck get a bearspray can. then the impact weapons a brand name expandable baton isent bad with some training, or some kind of sap or blackjack can ko everyone with one blow. the next step should be the knife (as large thats alowd or bigger) but thats often not less than lethal and also messy as said. i dont trust those stun weapons either stunguns are inefective
and tazers are prizey and you can also with like with the life-act miss your target completly or hit him with just one of the hooks. but if i wasent living in a country that dont allow us to defend arself i would go with a gun but then again thats often not less than leathal. By some OC and some impact weapons and let she try them out and see what shes likes and fell confident with, but no fake confident she must know nothing is 100% all the time.
Good luck ray

coelacanth
March 11, 2008, 05:41 AM
and I can sympathize with you as my wife and yours seem to be cut from the same cloth. Mine is actually a pretty decent shot but I cannot convince her to carry anywhere but on a camping trip. She prefers a CRKT M-16 folder to complement her tactical awareness and her running shoes. I would also suggest introducing her to Krav Maga as a way to deal effectively with a threat whether she is armed or not. A number of their techniques are particularly apt for women.

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