Which rifle calibre would be better served for HD?


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Eightball
March 10, 2008, 02:35 AM
Which rifle calibre would be better served for HD--.223 or .30 Carbine? I'm not intending to have a discussion about the capabilities of the platforms chambering said cartridges, but rather the rounds themselves. I've heard good things about .223 not overpenetrating when compared to various pistol rounds (but still getting the job done), and since everyone decries .30 Carbine as "weak/underpowered," it seems like that could come in handy in the HD role, especially with a larger bullet that weighs about twice that of your average .223.

And, heck, which bullet type would be the best in each calibre for my concerns--are there any benefits of FMJ for this, or stick with the good ol' JHPs and whatnot?

And, as a "just because" question....mount the bayo to these rifles for HD, or keep it off? Sounds goofy, but could it legitimately come in handy?

And before anyone asks "why these two cardtidges?"--it's what I have. I'm not going to use an SKS, Mauser, or Garand in the "rifle HD" role, and I've heard that using a .357 Mag revolver in dark, confined spaces is a bad idea (and I don't have any other suitable pistols, hence this thread)

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whistler
March 10, 2008, 03:03 AM
the 30m1 will work just find for HD with a 110grain hollow point at around 1700fps puts it right up there with the 357mag

AirPower
March 10, 2008, 03:20 AM
Unless you're going for armor piercing, stick with frangible bullets, or pistol caliber, ie. 9mm/40/45cal carbine to reduce over penetration in HD situation. You missed rifle shots could easily hit through several drywalls and end up in your neighbor's house.

ugaarguy
March 10, 2008, 04:00 AM
Unless you're going for armor piercing, stick with frangible bullets, or pistol caliber, ie. 9mm/40/45cal carbine to reduce over penetration in HD situation. You missed rifle shots could easily hit through several drywalls and end up in your neighbor's house.
That could not be further from the truth. Start reading here http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=314607 and pay particular attention to everything Bartholomew Roberts wrote. Read the linked threads. Read this http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=2568122&postcount=26, read this http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=210739. Get some good .223/5.56 JSP, JHP, or ballistic tip ammo and load up.

Firepower!
March 10, 2008, 04:46 AM
.223 excellant round and spectrum of weapon from bolt to select fire available in it.

hamourkiller
March 10, 2008, 06:13 AM
.223 with 55gr soft point will outperform the .30 carbine with out question. 3300 fps vs 1900 fps.

That said, I would not feel under gunned with an M1 Carbine in a home defense situation and would take either one to the pistol fight if given a chance.

Guitargod1985
March 10, 2008, 07:36 AM
Unless you're going for armor piercing, stick with frangible bullets, or pistol caliber, ie. 9mm/40/45cal carbine to reduce over penetration in HD situation. You missed rifle shots could easily hit through several drywalls and end up in your neighbor's house.


Even a 230 gr FMJ .45 ACP bullet will go through two walls. I've witnessed it. I'm willing to bet a JHP would go through at least one.

Bailey Guns
March 10, 2008, 09:24 AM
Unless you're going for armor piercing, stick with frangible bullets, or pistol caliber, ie. 9mm/40/45cal carbine to reduce over penetration in HD situation. You missed rifle shots could easily hit through several drywalls and end up in your neighbor's house.

Try reading this:

http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=26

alaskanativeson
March 10, 2008, 09:23 PM
Based on caliber alone I'd say a .30 of the two choices. For defense I want bigger holes and heavier bullets. However, I don't think you can discount the platfor if they're guns you already have. If they're very similar (both semi-autos) then it's not such a big deal. If one is a single shot pistol (Thompson Contender in .30) versus a .223 in an AR style rifle I'd go for the rifle. If it's a bolt rifle in .223 vs. a .30 Carbine semi-auto I'd say the .30 again.

May I ask why you've decided against the .357 if you already have one? It seems to me that's one of the very best choices anyone could make for a defensive role. I'd choose a .357 revolver over either an AR-15 or an M1 Carbine (unless I'm planning to have to hold off a rifle company) as my home defense gun.

trstafford
March 11, 2008, 01:59 AM
Both

skinewmexico
March 11, 2008, 02:18 AM
The 30. Don't have to worry about over-penetrations. I'm probably not impartial though, after all the stories my dad told me about guys dropping their 30s the first chance they had, to pick up a Garand.

ugaarguy
March 11, 2008, 02:29 AM
May I ask why you've decided against the .357 if you already have one? It seems to me that's one of the very best choices anyone could make for a defensive role. I'd choose a .357 revolver over either an AR-15 or an M1 Carbine (unless I'm planning to have to hold off a rifle company) as my home defense gun.
Wow. All the info linked here showing the greatly reduced likelihood of over penetration with .223 compared to pistol rounds, and people are still advocating the use of pistol rounds over .223. I really don't understand this.
The 30. Don't have to worry about over-penetrations. I'm probably not impartial though, after all the stories my dad told me about guys dropping their 30s the first chance they had, to pick up a Garand.
Again, please read the linked info further up in the thread. Most .223 rounds will penetrate barriers less than all but a few .30 Carbine rounds.

Ignition Override
March 11, 2008, 03:25 AM
Various written sources claim that out at 100 yards, the energy of the .30 carbine bullet is that of a .357's muzzle energy.

I have two carbines and no pistols (I never wanted a pistol available when my son was young: too many things happen to kids-they are very smart and observe, listen a lot. I could never afford any mistake-whether my only kid or not-and they can also find mags or ammo).
Many people can aim a carbine much better and they are very easy to maneuver.My Ruger Mini .223 - bought used - is so far very reliable. The repaired, new (Kahr) M-1 carbine with a much better, newer mag spring (installed at the factory) just had two misfeeds out of less than 100 rounds fired so far since the gun's return.

The Mini 14 has had two out of about 200-250+, mostly shooting from the used factory metal mag
and far fewer total shots made from new plastic Promag (30-round mag.).
To be in perspective, The M-1 C. might have had the two misfeeds with rounds made by "American Ammunition", bought at a pawn shop in Starkville, MS weeks ago.
The cheaper Wolf .223 seems so far the most reliable in used Ruger Mini 14, compared to Rem. All of my 'American Ammo, 'Wolf' and 'Rem.' ammo was/is copper-jacketed.

For a better perspective here, I've only been learning anything about guns since last October.

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