What happens when you "limp wrist" a 1911?


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PirateRadio
March 10, 2008, 11:59 AM
I know this is an odd question but my new 1911 is jamming a lot and it just occurred to me that I might be "limp wristing" it.

So, what exactly happens when you "limp wrist" a 1911?

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AirForceShooter
March 10, 2008, 12:01 PM
in a well functioning 1911 "limp wristing" shouldn't be a problem.

Define your "jam"
Failure to feed? Failure to extract?

AFS

PirateRadio
March 10, 2008, 12:02 PM
Failure to extract.

Let me see if I can draw a picture of how the gun is jamming...

PirateRadio
March 10, 2008, 12:14 PM
Not to scale but here is what is happening. The butt of the case gets wedged against the mag and the front of it gets stuck on the slide (the slide takes a pretty big bite out of it too).

http://www.spookywhatsqueeks.com/other/17285.jpg

jlbraun
March 10, 2008, 12:25 PM
Your gun needs to go back to the factory.

"Limpwristing" is an attempt for manufacturers to pass problems off as user error so they don't have to actually take in returns of defective guns.

Frandy
March 10, 2008, 12:32 PM
"Limp wristing" might not be the cause at all.

As Tuner has written before on this:

Empty round stovepipe. Usually noticed on the last round, but can occur anywhere.

Too much recoil spring. Weak or broken grip. Low extractor tension. Extractor clocking. The clocking extractor usually results in the last round being crunched by the slide, even though all others kick out of the port well. The extractor still has a grip, but the rotated hook drops it due to not having a convex surface to support the case. The magazine follower is depressed far enough to prevent slidelock, and the case rides the slide back toward battery. Crunch. I've seen the empty brass actually get stuffed back into the magazine on occasion.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=61238

Checking and Adjusting extractor:
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=73565











If it were mine, I would do the extractor test and then, if necessary,tune the extractor.

berkbw
March 10, 2008, 01:18 PM
With a properly adjusted 1911 (and this also means that the recoil spring is proper for the AMMO used) you can not induce a limp-wrist failure to eject. You might have to spit out the brass, but it will eject. I would look to a weaker recoil spring or a stronger ammo.
b-

PirateRadio
March 10, 2008, 01:41 PM
So you think your standard 230gr .45ACP might not be strong enough to move the slide with the stock spring in it?

berkbw
March 10, 2008, 01:46 PM
It "should" be enough. Maybe your spring is a tad heavier, or action not smooth. Hope you don't have to send it back.
b-

PirateRadio
March 10, 2008, 02:04 PM
I hope I don't either. I had to go through a whole thing just to get this gun and I don't want to spent it back out after only having it for 2 weeks...

Plus, I was really starting to get into it...

Deanimator
March 10, 2008, 02:10 PM
The first thing to do is always the easiest. How many magazines do you have? Try another one. If you don't have another magazine, borrow one from somebody else with an M1911. If you have to buy one, don't cheap out. If that turns out to be the problem, replace the magazine.

Mad Magyar
March 10, 2008, 02:27 PM
Damn, you are the 1st person I've seen post, or at least had the courage, from Chi-Town,a.k.a "Daley Town"...It's refreshing...
I agree, limp-wristing isn't your problem. I would 1st start with ammo, mags, and springs in that order....

PirateRadio
March 10, 2008, 02:35 PM
Deanimator -

I have 2 factory mags. I think it did it with both of them but I'm not 100% on that. Can you recommend a company/model of another one to get?

PirateRadio
March 10, 2008, 02:36 PM
Mad Magyar

Haha! Technically I'm not in Chicago, I'm in Homewood, IL. But no one has any idea where Homewood is so it's easier to say Chicago. I'm still in wonderful Cook County though.... :(

Spartacus451
March 10, 2008, 03:38 PM
It's not limp wristing and it's not insufficient slide velocity. The tell tale sign is the empty case stuffed in the mag, mouth crushed by the front of the ejection port.

It's the extractor (isn't it always?) which needs to be checked over. Check that it has a tight fit at the firing pin stop and that it interacts with the case correctly. It should at least hold a fired case if you shake the slide but should drop a loaded round (loaded not dummy). You can try adding tension but the issue may be the positioning of the extractor.

Tim L
March 10, 2008, 03:39 PM
Try a diffent brand of magazine, McCormicks and Wilsons are very good, with the McCormicks being the less expensive of the two.

Tim

Spartacus451
March 10, 2008, 03:43 PM
Try a diffent brand of magazine, McCormicks and Wilsons are very good, with the McCormicks being the less expensive of the two.

Tim
The magazine is not responsible for extraction/ejection. The extractor should be able to maintain control of the case until it reaches the ejector. The mag might aid in extraction/ejection, but it should function with any mag including the ACT magazines that would have come with his gun.

neviander
March 10, 2008, 06:03 PM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BsktLC-hzx4

The first gun he tries is some variation of a Colt 1911, and it was the only one that passed with flying colors.

Rayden
March 10, 2008, 06:28 PM
I am surprised no one yet has suggested "Get a Glock" lol .....

1911Tuner
March 10, 2008, 06:30 PM
Pirate...When the gun jams as illustrated in your drawing...is the case crushed at two points between the slide and the barrel hood?

Does it ever appear that the empty case is being stuffed partway back into the magazine?

Does it happen only on the last round?

If the answer to either is yes...it's an extractor problem.

texagun
March 10, 2008, 06:45 PM
As I recall, Jeff Cooper used to demonstrate firing a 1911 using only two fingers, to illustrate the point that "limp-wristing" was not an issue with the 1911.

mikle76
March 10, 2008, 09:14 PM
Funny, I just posted in another thread about limp wristing possibly being a problem and here the subject has also popped up and I haven't heard or read anything about it in years. Now twice in the same day! Anywho, I doubt seriously "LW" is the cause but I can use my limited brain power to see where a rough or even a highly tuned action might be upset by the user absorbing small amounts of it's recoil energy. That said, I have tried to get a LW failure with my 45's and am unable to do it. I was bored !

TAB
March 10, 2008, 09:21 PM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BsktLC-hzx4

The first gun he tries is some variation of a Colt 1911, and it was the only one that passed with flying colors.


intresting... the only one that failed that test was a glock...

meef
March 10, 2008, 09:26 PM
The Pink Pistols mails you a membership application.

:scrutiny:

DrLaw
March 10, 2008, 09:34 PM
Yes, a fairly nice town there. Is Three Brothers still at the main junction of downtown? How about that gun shop over in neighboring Glenwood? It was the only place I had to shoot for years. Been many years since I have been up there. Helped catch two burglars in the act there in Homewood. One was just down the street from the Dunkin Donuts and he had all the cops in town on him in seconds!

The Doc is out now. :cool:

PirateRadio
March 11, 2008, 10:06 AM
DRLaw-

Yes sir, Three Brothers is still there and I go to that Glenwood gun shop every so often to shoot. :)

PirateRadio
March 11, 2008, 10:07 AM
1911Tuner-

Thats pretty much exactly what is happening. Not only on the last round. Sometimes second to last.

Southern6er
March 11, 2008, 02:47 PM
What about if it does that with live rounds and misfeeding?

I've had THAT happen with Winchester White Box and both my Kimber factory mag and a Wilson.

I admit I was not using a very good grip before and it happened quite a bit (also was within Kimber's first 500 rounds 'breakin'). I adjusted my grip and stance and basically went from about dropping the 1911 after a shot to telling it where I wanted it to go and what to do. Since doing that I haven't had the problem at all.

Hoosier Reloader
March 11, 2008, 07:53 PM
I've never had a problem when I "limp-wristed" my 1911's. Jamming has only occurred when I had issues with ammo, mags or worn ejectors.

kanderson586
March 11, 2008, 10:46 PM
Answer........................it Goes Bang!!!

ElrodCod
March 12, 2008, 08:38 AM
Try a lighter recoil spring if you suspect "limp wristing" is the problem. I'd look at the mags & extractor if that doesn't cure it.

JDGray
March 12, 2008, 05:00 PM
If your 1911 is a 45, it will most likely break your wrist, if limp wristed:p


I am surprised no one yet has suggested "Get a Glock" lol .....


Glocks are the most sensitive guns for limp wristing failures. My 10yr old son can get my G19 to stovepipe everytime he shoots it. The ammo is downloaded also, so its not entirely the Glocks fault, but my CZs never jam with the same ammo.

"Limpwristing" is an attempt for manufacturers to pass problems off as user error so they don't have to actually take in returns of defective guns.


Limpwrising is user error, and can cause a perfectly good gun to stovepipe a case.

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