[J Lambs]

I have my CCW, but I have a questions about places that are posted prohibiting concealed handguns. Is there a specific location where the sign is required to be located? For instance, does it have to be on the right side of the door? I pay more attention to the signs in front of retail stores since I got my permit, but I don't usually see these signs. Am I missing them or are most retail stores CCW compatible?

[PPGMD]

Unless the owner is pretty anti-gun, in areas where the signs have no weight in law you are likely not to see many of them. In Florida it's pretty rare to see those signs (they carry no weight in law), and pretty often gun owners bomb the HQ with complaint letters and often the signs come down.

[Pa.Bill]

I have seen many posts about anti-carry signs, Malls,Stores, etc. I'm in South Central Pa. and visit many malls in the area.
I have yet to see any signs that are anti gun.
( Maybe I should look closer:confused:)

~BEST~

[Valkman]

The only sign that actually bars CCW in NV is the legal 30.06 sign which I have only seen where they have gun shows in Vegas. We also cannot carry anywhere where metal detectors are used so when I've gone to HOB at Mandalay Bay I can carry in the casino but not in the concert.

Anything that says "Check Your Guns" (Bass Pro) or "No Guns" does not apply to CCW so I walk right in.

[Shooter57]

I've never seen a sign at Bass Pro to check your guns. Going to their range is a different story,if you have a ccw they will not put a trigger lock on your handguns and ask for a count on equipment.

[another okie]

The effect is governed by state law, so it's different everywhere. You need to check with North Carolina experts.

[KenW.]

No handguns allowed, eh?

Looks like when I see one of them I'll have to pack my shotgun in.

[Harpo]

You mean like this?

http://liquiscreen.com/pics/unarmed.jpg

[deputy tom]

BOYCOTT THEM! tom.:cuss:

[big44]

Never learned to read :neener:

[Phydeaux642]

The state in which I reside has size reqirements on the signs (11"x14") and the letters have to be a certain size but I don't think there are location requirements. On the other hand, the signs don't really carry any weight either, so, I usually ignore them. Now places such as a law enforcement agency, school, courtroom, etc., are a different story because there are consequences if you carry in those types of places.

I have noticed a few places taking their signs down lately. I guess they figure an armed good guy might not be such a bad idea after all.

__________________

"Phydeaux, bad dog....no biscuit!"

[Onmilo]

If I was you, I wouldn't patronize the businesses that put those signs up.

If I was inclined to be a crook in a CCW state I would look upon no carry signs as an invitation to commit robbery.

[hanno]

For Michigan CPL holders, you can check MCRGO for those places that are posted.

http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/d_no_gun_signs.asp

[jad0110]

I've noticed that what few establishments post the signs, most of the time it is NOT in plain sight. For example, the local mall has at least 4 entrances, and only one (the least used rear entrance, no less) has a sign posted at the bottom right corner. It's almost as if it is a half hearted attempt on the part of the mall owners and management to keep the soccer moms happy, while at the same time hoping that the good guys won't see it.

In NC, carrying into a private establishment with a no CCW sign is not a big deal for me. I've been told by several people, including some LEOs, that the worst the property owner or management can do if they discover your CCW is ask you to leave. If you get an attitude and refuse to leave, they can call the cops and have you arrested for trespassing.

I should probably re-study NC firearms laws though, so don't take my word for it:

http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/ncfirearmslaws.pdf

Of course, carrying when it is strictly verboten by NC law (federal and state property, schools, establishments that serve alcohol, etc) is a different story, as getting caught there = felony :cuss:.

[evan price]

In Ohio entering a posted establishment is a 4th degree misdemeanor "Criminal Trespass while Armed" or something like that.

Problem is, you have to knowingly enter the establishment, and it must have conspicuously posted signs prohibiting the carrying of firearms.

It's an interesting situation considering that the interpretation of KNOWINGLY or CONSPICUOUSLY has not been defined yet...

[Robert Hairless]

The size, wording, location, and all other details of such signs vary from state to state. North Carolina has a training requirement for the CWP. Your CWP instructor should have told you all of those details and told you how to keep up with changes in the law.

Perhaps the worst way to get reliable information about such matters is to ask about them in a general gun forum such as this. You'll surely get lots of answers, but if you act on any that are wrong it's you who takes the consequences. And if that happens you'll be criticized by many of the same people who steered you wrong.

[Fear Night]

My response to their silly signs is concealed is concealed.

Even in the rare case your gun is exposed, they can only ask you to leave. If you do not comply and the cops show up you could be charged with misdemeanor trespassing.

Carrying in a bar, courthouse, airport, etc. is a whole different story. This only applies to privately owned retail stores who think they can restrict second amendment rights.

[FieroCDSP]

It's an interesting situation considering that the interpretation of KNOWINGLY or CONSPICUOUSLY has not been defined yet...

Ohio likes to leave their definitions open-ended and vague to allow for interpretation at will. There's almost no laws or explainations about Open carry in Ohio, though it is perfectly legal.

[J Lambs]

I noticed that I did set off the alarm in a certain store's entrance, but since I was on my way in, noone said anything then or when I left. At this store, I did not notice a sign, but then again, I was really not looking for one. Should I be consciously looking for the sign or do most just carry until someone points it out.

[Robert Hairless]

I noticed that I did set off the alarm in a certain store's entrance, but since I was on my way in, noone said anything then or when I left. At this store, I did not notice a sign, but then again, I was really not looking for one. Should I be consciously looking for the sign or do most just carry until someone points it out.

I suppose it depends on North Carolina law, the possible penalty for violating it, and how much risk you're willing to bear. The link posted by someone else above is to a general summary from the Attorney General in 2007. It says that among the places you may not carry is:

d. Any premises where the carrying of a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a statement by the controller of the premises;

That statement seems clear to me, but of course there's no way for mere words to stop anyone from doing what he feels like doing. People do such things all the time. When people we don't like choose to violate a law we call them "lawbreakers" and sometimes even "ciminals." But when people with Concealed Weapons Permits do it they call themselves "patriots," "Second Amendment advocates," and other nice sounding terms. So I guess it all depends on the laws you choose to violate, your point of view, and whether the judge shares that point of view.

It will be interesting to see what happens to Elliot Spitzer, the current Governor of New York State, who undoubtedly had good reasons for violating at least a few laws he found inconvenient and, besides, nobody was watching him anyway.

I'm still curious about why such things weren't covered in the required North Carolina CWP course. I'm also curious about why anyone bothers to get a concealed weapons permit who doesn't intend to comply with the laws governing that permit. After all, "concealed is concealed." If you conceal that gun well enough so nobody ever knows you have it on you, nobody will ever know you don't have a permit. Then there's no need to be concerned about those signs, which only matter to stuffy law abiding people anyway.

[customizedcreationz]

I havent noticed any by me yet that I frequent ( MI ).

If I did notice it, I would not give that company anymore business.

[Robert Hairless]

If I did notice it, I would not give that company anymore business.

That's a perfectly reasonable response. A business that requires customers to do what they don't want to do should lose those customers.

My own thinking is that businesses open to the public should not be allowed to deny their customers or their employees the means to defend themselves there or while en route to the business. But that's a different issue.

Let's work to change bad laws, but we need always to remember that we are the good guys and should behave that way. We ought to be the people other people can trust.

[mnw42]

he only sign that actually bars CCW in NV is the legal 30.06 sign which I have only seen where they have gun shows in Vegas.

Valkman, the sign that prevents you from carrying is called a "30.06 sign? If so, that is classic!

[Citroen]

Robert, you are exactly right! The "off limits" places are covered in the CCW training class required by North Carolina statute. In Meckenburg County (Harrisburg is in Cabarrus County - next door), the Sheriff presents you with a yellow slip of paper that summarizes the rules.

The "metal detector" that J. Lamb stated he set off was most likely an EAS anti-shoplifting device and not a metal detector. I have yet to see an actual metal detector at a retail establishment.

Actual metal detectors are not freestanding units but have some type of authority person standing by to enforce compliance.

Charlotte, which is much less gun friendly than Concord (Cabarrus Co. seat) has very few places with the signs.

John
Charlotte, NC

[Nathanael_Greene]

Quote: Valkman, the sign that prevents you from carrying is called a "30.06 sign? If so, that is classic!

Here in Texas, the Penal Code number that covers such signs is 30.06. I'm sure it's not just a coincidence.

[RichardB]

The information you asked about should have been discussed in your Concealed Carry class. Review the handouts from your class.

In addition to the Attorney General's site, there is also Grass Roots North Carolina which provides NC specific information and is involved in the politics of getting stupid laws and ordinances changed in NC.

You should join and, if possible, participate in their efforts.

http://www.grnc.org/

Anyway if the business / property owner conspicuously posts a no concealed carry notice you are invited to leave or leave the weapon elsewhere.

[UnTainted]

What? I didn't see any sign.

[chris in va]

The very few signs I've seen here in VA are pretty darn small. Wachovia just has a revolver with a slash through it, about 2" across, off to the side.

[lvcat2004]

I'm in Nevada too, but I've never seen this 30.06 sign...is this what it looks like?
http://www.wmsa.net/images/gun_free_zone.jpg

[loop]

Never seen one.

Threads like these make me glad I live between the left coast and the Rockies.

[SAWBONES]

Does it matter? Are you so worried about being in compliance with everybody else's wishes? Do you imagine you'll be "better off" if you obey the sign? Will you always obey "laws" that are immoral, nonsensical or directly contrary to the Constitution? Are you determined to "boycott" and to inform of your "boycott" any and every business which posts such signs?

My answer to this and similar questions will always be:

Carry at all times unless some external "detector" makes such impractical or impossible, due to the inconvenience or other difficulty encountered in explaining yourself to agents of "the state".
I either avoid such circumstances, or endure them as little as needs be (such as when testifying in court).
The paper "legality" of CCW at any particular place or time is an effort by lawmakers to restrict the potentially-injurious actions of violent sociopaths. Unfortunately, those efforts simply don't work, and criminal sociopaths don't obey those laws.
If you are a morally-upright, courageous, mentally-stable and sensible person, you have fulfilled the SPIRIT of the law, since you are no danger to the innocent.
If you carry discreetly and don't draw attention to yourself, no one will know if you are armed or not, and no one will be harmed by your discreet CCW, yet you WILL be capable of an armed response if a deadly threat requiring such appears.
Post office? Hospital? School? What difference does it really make?
Understand, I'm NOT advocating ANYTHING LIKE wanton disobedience to authority or disregard for rule. I'm speaking of MORAL issues which both underlie and supercede codified laws.
Some folks may find this beyond their comprehension, though those of us who have done this for decades, and have thought through the moral principles involved have no difficulty with the concept.