[Wineoceros]

Has anyone here ever been bitten...or know anyone who has been bitten...by a large cottonmouth?

My son and I were hunting hogs in a boggy E. TX spot this past Sunday and were walking along the top a small river bank, with him trailing me by about 8 - 10 yds., when I hear him suddenly call out "Snake!" I stopped and wheeled around to see him staring at the ground at a spot I'd just crossed about 10 feet back, and where I'd stepped over a small group of 1.5"-2" broken tree branches that were lying in a pile more-or-less parallel to one another. On closer inspection I saw that one of the branches had a head, and was flicking a tongue in and out of it quite rapidly. The "branch" was, of course, a ~5 ft. cottonmouth that was lying alongside the real real branches with its body nearly perfectly straight. It so closely resembled the other branches that I had stepped right over it while looking right at it and never saw it for what it was.

After instructing my son to just give the snake a wide berth and walk well around it we went on our way and the serpent went on his/hers. Later on we began to talk about how fortunate it was that...

1) I was at least watching the ground enough that I stepped over the branches and the snake rather than on it, since the latter would have been my best chance for being envenomated by a rather pissed off reptile.

2) The snake didn't react to my actions by biting me as I passed over it anyway.

3) My son was paying close enough attention to spot the snake after I stepped over it, saving himself from the same two risks above.

So, as to my original question...has anyone here had the misfortune of having been bitten by one of these animals, and particularly one so large? I'm just curious to know what it is that I was lucky enough to have missed out on.

Oh, and since our current hunting boots are approaching the end of their useful lives anyway I think I've now got myself talked into splurging on two good pairs of high-rise snake boots for next season :D

[saddlebum]

not a cotton mouth, but i was bitten by a copper head. same family . trust me not fun at all.

one thing that i learned is a young snake is more likely to give you a large dose of venom than an adult snake.so a big snake might be better than a small snake if you could pick which one to get bitten by.:what:

[xring44]

I live in a semi rural area, 4 miles out of a town of 2500 people. My next door neighbors were walking just back of my house along a slough, she was bitten on the lower calf of her leg by a BIG cottonmouth. They did the worse possible thing in running to my house, only a 100 yards or so. They wanted me to cut it, I advised that they were within 5 minutes of the hospital, that would be the best course of action. He pointed vaguely in the direction of the site, said they were on this side of the slough. I went down and found the snake, killed it and brought it to the hospital for positive identification, (in order to administer anti-venom) I knew it was a cottonmouth, but they called a herpatoligist, spelling, before they would administer the anti-venom. Her leg swelled so large that they split the skin to keep it from bursting. She bears scars and will forever, from that one misplaced step.
Be careful out there, them danged cottonmouths are dangerous.

[electric wombat]

I have not been bitten by one yet but Agkistrodon piciverous (cottonmouth) is one of the species I have studied. In general terms it's the young ones you really have to keep an eye on. They seem to be more agressive and being young tend to not conserve their venom. young ones will inject more venom when striking with a defensive bite than the older ones. On top of that their venom is a bit more concentrated therefore more potent than adults. The venom of A. picivorous is a hemotoxin which mean it attacks the red blood cells & tissues by breaking down their cellular structure. It also inhibits clotting, causes inflmation & can affect organ function. If bitten the venom will first start to destroy the tissue surrounding the bite as it works it's way through your body. Also you will experience large amounts of swelling to the point where the skin will be split open (or have to be cut open) to relieve the pressure caused by the swelling. probably not the most plesant experience. Most cottonmout bites will not be life threatning as long as you seek immediate medical attention & have the antivenon (antivenon is the proper termonology, not antivenom) administered to you in a timely fashon. You'll definately experience a good bit of pain but at least you won't be dead.

You & your son did the best thing, just leave it alone. Snakes are not going to strike unless they feel threatened. They will give you a warning before they strike. Body posture, breathing movements, all things to look at. In the case of A. piciverous of course it will open it's mouth wide (gaping) and rattle its tail in the leaf litter as a warning. It will also take the what i call S curve posture where it's head & roughly first 1/4 of its body will curl up into an S shape. As you can tell I've been bitten at a pretty good bit but that's because when I come across one I piss it off by catching it & taking measurements & whatnot. I know what I'm doing & am a trained wildlife biologist but I still have to be really careful when handeling any venomous snake. Hopefully I can go my entire career without being invenomated. For the "common" person best advise, leave it alone & it will leave you alone.

[Darthbauer]

If you think snakes are bad, stay clear of big lizards. A friend had one and it bit him in the hand. His father and I were in the garage and he came walking in with the thing hanging off his hand dripping blood. We had to pri the thing off with a hammer.


Snakes have venom, but atleast most of them let go.

[saddlebum]

in my case the hospital also called a herpatologist from the tulsa zoo to identify the snake by then 1.5 hours had passed. he told the DR. i was as sick as i was gonna get and not to give me the antivenon.

[bowl443]

I'm also from boggy E texas... went to school with a girl who got bit in her backyard at night. She was three days in the hospital. You were lucky. You have to always be on the lookout down here.

[dogrunner]

Fella that hunted on a lease I was involved in years ago was bitten thru a rubber boot and suffered severe damage. Crippled him up so badly that he failed to finish out the season that year and when I saw him the following he showed me his foot which was withered and obviously had been severely damaged.

As he told the story he was wading thru a swamp to a pine island where he had a tree stand when he was apparently struck. He didn't realise what'd occured and actually got into that stand when his foot began to throb and swell. He said he pulled off the boot and that's when he noticed the punctures. Walked out and drove himself to a medical facility.

I've gotten soft in my older years about killing but I WILL go out of my way to pop any moccasin I see. They are agressive as hell and I have SEEN a small one actually chase a fellow that tried to stomp it!!! They also have a bad tendency to "stand their ground" and just throw their heads up and dare you come on....I do, after a charge of shot has eliminated the problem.

Made a bad mistake when bowhunting some years ago....stuck a big one into the mud and had to hike a long way back to the truck to get my machete to retrieve my arrow.

Funniest thing I've ever seen with the things was a black guy that was trying to kill one with a .22 pistol on our property that bounds a river. I'd heard him shooting and went to see what was going on...when I got there he was standing in an aluminum jon-boat, trying to hold steady with a paddle on the bottom and popping rounds onto a tiny cypress island....I couldn't see what he was shooting at and asked what was going on....he managed to kill the snake at about that time and was trying to load it into the boat all the while stating, and this is a direct quote: "Mr. if you think only Jesus Christ walked on water if this mother****er come alive you 'bout see it again"......I'd walked way over a hundred yards thru a swampy area to get to him and on the way back I was SURE careful, looking for snakes everywhere.........That thing was probably well over 5 inches in diameter and nearly four feet long! Had a head on it bigger'n my fist. Damned sure a put you in the hospital type snake.

Said he just had to show the thing to his buddies.....

[Wineoceros]

It sounds like we did indeed dodge a venomous bullet there. I've encountered cottonmouths (and many other types of snakes) in the wild before, but just never in a manner that held so much potential for disaster. We were over a mile away from my vehicle and there is no way I could have made it back without a great deal of physical exertion.

Thanks to all for the informative feedback.

[Bailey Boat]

For those of you in snake country like I am, go to Wally World in the camping section and buy SEVERAL "Sawyer Extractors". They come in a yellow plastic box about twice the size of a pack of smokes and WILL save you a LOT of pain and suffering if/when you're bitten. They work on suction and don't require cutting the bite site. Their only about 10-12 bucks so you won't need a second mortgage.................. Don't leave home without it!!!!!!!

[WayneConrad]

I hike and hunt in the desert Southwest, home to some very venomous pit vipers. It seemed like a good idea to know how to treat snakebite. My research shows that the Sawyer kit is no longer recommended.

Please see Treating and Preventing Venomous Bites (http://www.fda.gov/Fdac/features/995_snakes.html) (FDA):
Though US medical professionals may not agree on every aspect of what to do for snakebite first aid, they are nearly unanimous in their views of what not to do. Among their recommendations:

* No ice or any other type of cooling on the bite. Research has shown this to be potentially harmful.
* No tourniquets. This cuts blood flow completely and may result in loss of the affected limb.
* No electric shock. This method is under study and has yet to be proven effective. It could harm the victim.
* No incisions in the wound. Such measures have not been proven useful and may cause further injury.
More discussion on snakebite treatment here (http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=120729#Post120729) (equipped.org).

[MCgunner]

I've known people bitten by rattlers and I had a dog killed by one. I saved a cat to the tune of 200 bucks at the vet. Was an aweful wound, maggots growing in the dead flesh. Yich.

I have a pair of snake boots I just got this Christmas. I have zip on snake leggings, too, that I've been using for quite a while. Better to wear the gear than not where my place is. It's coming up on spring and the snakes will be out. Hard to spot 'em in the heavy grass, too.

[stiab]

Has anyone here ever been bitten...or know anyone who has been bitten...by a large cottonmouth?

Yes, sort of, a cottonmouth bit the left hind foot of my 80 lb. yellow lab Cricket several years ago. Her leg swelled to the point that the lower portion was as big as a grapefruit and the skin split. I took her to the vet, but don't recall the treatment.

By the way, having worked and lived in the Great Dismal Swamp for several years, I have seen hundreds of cottonmouths, including some that were very big, but never one 5 feet long. A cottonmouth's size comes from its girth, not its length. If the snake was really that long it might have been a different type.

[paintballdude902]

im thinking it was a copper head if it matched the branches (not saying it wasnt just my .02)

out at the barn we had a stray hunting dog get bitten by a copperhead

the vet told us that she wasnt gonna get any worse and she was fine about a week later

cant say the same thing about the snake.....our barn hand red blew it inhalf with a 20ga

[MCgunner]

Well, I've never seen a copper head much over a foot and a half. LOL Now, there is a genus of water snakes, Natrix (google it), that are very agressive, will faux attack threats, even strike, but are non-venomous. Many folks think they're cotton mouths. They'll often be splotchy looking with various dull yellow patches and they get pretty big both in girth and length. There are quite a few species of genus Natrix and they are quite common in the woods of east Texas after a good rain. I've seen small lakes absolutely infested with 'em and the woods full of 'em mating in the spring after a downpour. Lookd for the pits near the eyes and plain dull brown/grey coloration, but take no chances. Walk around it. :D

One warm duck season, myself and a friend were out duck hunting. We stopped at a pothole after the morning hunt to check it out. We were walking a trail, he in front of me. I saw a coiled moccasin in the trail, grabbed him by the shoulder and yanked him back just as he was about to step on the snake. I told him the snake was there and he STILL didn't see it until I shot the head off the thing. He'd not taken his shotgun as this was to scout the pothole and we'd shot a limit, but something told me to just take it along. We could have side stepped the snake, but I didn't wanna encounter it again on the way out. That time of year, you don't really think to wear the snake leggings and we had our waders on. It pays to be vigilant in snake country.

After I decapitated the snake, we checked out the head. That thing had some major hypo needles, looked a couple inches long. We were a ways from the boat ramp and hospital, but I reckon he'd have survived. It would not have been a pleasant experience, though.

[Wineoceros]

I found several photographs and descriptions of the various species of the genus Natrix (most of which are native to Europe) and they're not even remotely similar in appearance to the snake we encountered, which was a dead-ringer for the photos of cottonmouths that I've found, not only in color but in general body shape, lacking the more gradual tapering of the tail possessed by the local Natrix species (Natrix sipedon).

Copperheads are even more dissimilar in appearance.

[retrieverman]

Though US medical professionals may not agree on every aspect of what to do for snakebite first aid, they are nearly unanimous in their views of what not to do. Among their recommendations:

* No ice or any other type of cooling on the bite. Research has shown this to be potentially harmful.
* No tourniquets. This cuts blood flow completely and may result in loss of the affected limb.
* No electric shock. This method is under study and has yet to be proven effective. It could harm the victim.
* No incisions in the wound. Such measures have not been proven useful and may cause further injury.

This is basically what the vets told us when my Dad's Brittany Spaniel got bit my a Cottonmouth last summer. It was a very large snake, and my Dad really didn't have much hope for his dog. His vet really didn't know much about snake bites and didn't offer much hope, but the vet that I use and is a good friend was much more optimistic and was right. To say the least though, he was one sick puppy for about 2 weeks, but he made a full recovery and hunted about 35 days during bird season.
Here are some pictures of the wound.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v712/retrieverman/100_0168.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v712/retrieverman/100_0170.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v712/retrieverman/100_0172.jpg

[Wineoceros]

Ouch! That's nasty looking. I'm sorry your dad's pooch had to go through that, but glad that he made it.

[K3]

I have run over several snakes while mountain biking. Well, 3, but that's several to me. I ride in the late afternoon, just when snakes like to stretch out and catch a little sun.

The first one was a copperhead. I think my butthole puckered up and sucked in the seat of my bike. I've heard from 'experts' that there are no Copperheads in the Lubbock area. Researched a little... It was a Trans-Pecos Copperhead, which most certainly is in the area. About 2-1/2 feet long.

The second snake was a hognose. The third was some sort of rat snake or something. I was riding pretty fast over that one.

The other snake I had an encounter with was a decent sized Western Diamondback. Prolly 3-1/2 feet, but he was coiled, so I couldn't be sure. I was riding though some switchbacks, and I passed what looked like a snake in the brush just off the trail. Stopped and got off the bike. Walked back slowly and sure enough, there he was. He was coiled up and looking right at me. I didn't get closer than 10 feet, and I headed back to my bike rapidly. I'm not sure why I had to go back and look at the snake. Curiosity I guess. It's been known to be harmful to cats....

[electric wombat]

To Mcgunner & Wineoceros. The one your thinking of that mimics the coloration of cottonmouths is Nerodia fasciata. This is the one most people get confused with the cottonmouth. Here's some pics. The first two are of N. fasciata (broadbanded watersnake) The first one is a juvenile & the second an adult. The last pic is of an adult A. piscivorous (cottonmouth). There's an obvious difference to those of us who know about snakes but you can see the similarities in coloration & how some may get the two species confused.

[Wineoceros]

I can certainly see how the adult N. fasciata could easily be mistaken for a cottonmouth, especially in the heat of the moment. In fact it's pretty close in appearance to the snake we encountered. The only things that make me continue to favor my original identification are its size (cottonmouths average a somewhat larger size than N. fasciata) and the far more abrupt tapering of the body diameter near the tail.

But I'm not a herpetologist, and certainly could have been wrong.

[MCgunner]

Well, there is NO shortage of cottonmouth in East Texas! I'd say that's probably what it was. Be kinda stupid to step on it and find out, I reckon. I've never been so scared as when a hog nose ran from a brush pile I was cleaning up when I was a kid, LOL! Boy, it was evil lookin', right out of Conan the Barbarian. I went and looked it up later, after I'd cleaned up in the bathroom.

A viper will kill a dog faster than a cat. You shoulda seen my poor cat, muscle mass eaten up, magots crawling around in the wound. I took her straight to the vet and after several months of TLC, she healed. My Beagle got off his leash and went and got bit behind the house (woods). He came home whimpering. I couldn't figure out what was wrong with him, no visible signs of the bite yet. Before I could get him to the vet, he died. It was in the hind leg muscle, cause he'd yelp when I'd touch it. Snake bites a dog in a good fleshy spot, just go ahead and dig a hole for him.

[MCgunner]

I've probably seen Nerodia fasciata and thought it was just another species of Natrix. But, heck, I was a fisheries management major. :D I didn't take herp, wasn't forced to.

[electric wombat]

But I'm not a herpetologist, and certainly could have been wrong.

I wasn't doubting that you came across a cottonmouth, lord knows they're all over the south east US. In the Louisiana swamps, where i'm from you get tired of seeing them. From the description it sounds like it was definately a cottonmouth.

I've probably seen Nerodia fasciata and thought it was just another species of Natrix.

the genus Natrix is usually applied to the european water snakes but there are a few in the US.

But, heck, I was a fisheries management major. I didn't take herp, wasn't forced to.

I geared all my studies to wildlife biology so I got everything from snakes to fish to birds to mammals. I focused more on herps since those are my fav. Alot of good all my wildlife knowledge is doing me now. I'm stuck in an office job for the Louisiana Department of Enviro Quality. At least I have a few of my side projects that get me out into the field.

[Patrick_Henry]

Upon close inspection of the FDA article posted:

A suction device may be placed over the bite to help draw venom out of the wound without making cuts. Suction instruments often are included in commercial snakebite kits.

This is the roll of the Sawyer Kit. The Sawyer kit is also recommended in the Merck Manual as well as a few other reputable sources. I think it is safe to say that these are here to stay at least for a while. And as previously mentioned they are quite cheap and no real problem to have around. What is definitely not recommended is cutting the wound or making a tourniquets. Instead the "new" concept is what is called limb immobilization. This basically means you put the wound in a sling very much like you would after a broken bone and make sure it cannot be moved, then seek medical attention ASAP.

Just thought I'd clarify that one.

[RLsnow]

we dont have no snakes in norway :p...


only killer seagulls.

[MCgunner]

Quote:
But, heck, I was a fisheries management major. I didn't take herp, wasn't forced to.
I geared all my studies to wildlife biology so I got everything from snakes to fish to birds to mammals. I focused more on herps since those are my fav. Alot of good all my wildlife knowledge is doing me now. I'm stuck in an office job for the Louisiana Department of Enviro Quality. At least I have a few of my side projects that get me out into the field.



Well, I switched to fisheries from wildlife (Texas A&M) when a TPW biologist on a field trip told me that's where the jobs were. Wasn't long before I figured out twice zero is still zero...hey, I made it out of calculus even if by the skin of my teeth...so I decided to minor in chem which I had some aptitude for after the initial shock of freshman chem, amazingly. I went to work first for Dow in process research, pilot plant tech, then got a job down here doing stack gas and waste water analysis/EPA abatement for the start up of a PVC plant in 82. I quickly figured out how crooked the management was, didn't want any of their poop rolling back down hill on me, kept meticulous notes at the time. Finally, I transfered to QC under the guise that I wanted on 12 hour rotating shift. :rolleyes:

So, we all can't be herpetologists, I reckon, LOL! I figured since I wanted to work outdoors, next best thing was to make more money and afford to PLAY outdoors. At least I didn't have to wear a suit to work all those years. LOL

If you want a real hoot of a read, read what I've found just searching my former employer. You might be interested since they have a plant in Baton Rouge and the management is no better than it ever was, buncha lyin', back stabbin', money grubbin' SOBs. This link supports my premise. :D I mean, not that I got disgruntled or burnt out or anything. I mean, I did enjoy Limnology in school, just that in practice, it's pretty boring week after week and there's more danger to it than one sees at first blush when you work for such a place. I am proud of the fact I was able to retire without getting sent to prison for working there. LOL!

Note the part about Charlie Trie. That one's rich. LOL I didn't realize they were instrumental in that when it was going down in the 90s. Clinton slid right out of that one, too, like the snakes you know about, LOL!

http://www.pvcinformation.org/assets/pdf/Formosa_Plastics_report.pdf

[frogomatic]

one thing that i learned is a young snake is more likely to give you a large dose of venom than an adult snake.so a big snake might be better than a small snake if you could pick which one to get bitten by.

this is a misconception. The ammount and lethality of a snakes venom is relative to the size/age of the snake, and it's use for the venom.

Please note the following is not true in every case, but is the general tendency of venomous serpents.

ammount of venom injected - determined mostly by the size of the snake, larger snakes tend to utilize larger ammounts of venom. The situation can also be a factor in this aspect. A snake that is defending itself will tend to inject much more venom than it would if it was hunting.

Lethality of venom - this is where the age and purpose factors come in. Very young snakes tend to have more potent venom than their seniors. Young snakes need more potent venom for two reasons. first, they are smaller and cannot produce the volume of venom and older and larger version could, so the venom needs to be more potent to be effective. Second young snakes are more vulnerable to predators, and more likely to use their venom defensively, which leads me to the purpose factor. If a snake uses it's venom primarily to hunt, the venom tends to be less potent than that of a snake that uses venom primarily as a defensive tool.

the type of venom also varies from species to species, and can depend alot on use. IIRC, defensive use seems to prefer neurotoxins, as they tend to act very quickly, and will allow the snake to escape. While hunters tend to use hemotoxins. (my memory on venom types is not they best, and I may well be remembering incorrectly) Venom type also seemed to be affected by frequency of use, in as much as it relates to how costly it is for the snake to make the venom. Defensive uses are less frequent than hunting uses. It would make sense that a hunting snake will need to produce more venom over the course of it's life than a snake that uses venom primarily for defence. A snake that uses venom less often can afford to invest more resources into it's creation, while the snake that uses venom more often, needs a toxin that is less costly to make.

remember, I am an amatuer herpatologist, not an expert, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.

[tkendrick]

Geez, guys.

It's simple. Just stick yer hand out there and when he bites ya take a look at the bite.

If'n theys 2 big ol holes in front a the smaller holes, then itsa moc'sin.

If'n there aint it aint.

Gotta teach you young'un's everthang!

[R.W.Dale]

we dont have no snakes in norway ...


only killer seagulls.

I'll take my chances with Snakes thank you! LOL Your whole freezing to death thing would scare the pee out of me.

Just think of how the Australians feel. Everything down there is venomous!

[rantingredneck]

Yeah, I ain't going to Australia. Even the kittens are venomous, I think. :uhoh:

I spend some time each year down in the coastal swamps of NC hunting. Seen some big cottonmouths and one copperhead that was nearly 3 feet. It struck the tire of my truck as I drove a little too close to it trying to get a better look at it. Didn't dry bite either. Venom was running down my tire. Never personally been bitten though.

I work in social services and was a case manager for children with developmental disabilities for a time. Had a young girl on my caseload once pick up a copperhead and get bitten. She was young and had autism. To her the snake was a pretty stick that moved. She spend 4 days in the hospital and her hand was twice the size of mine (she was 4, I'm 6' and 240lbs with big paws).

Snakebites are nasty things.....

[saddlebum]

this is a misconception. The ammount and lethality of a snakes venom is relative to the size/age of the snake, and it's use for the venom.

Please note the following is not true in every case, but is the general tendency of venomous serpents.

ammount of venom injected - determined mostly by the size of the snake, larger snakes tend to utilize larger ammounts of venom. The situation can also be a factor in this aspect. A snake that is defending itself will tend to inject much more venom than it would if it was hunting.

Lethality of venom - this is where the age and purpose factors come in. Very young snakes tend to have more potent venom than their seniors. Young snakes need more potent venom for two reasons. first, they are smaller and cannot produce the volume of venom and older and larger version could, so the venom needs to be more potent to be effective. Second young snakes are more vulnerable to predators, and more likely to use their venom defensively, which leads me to the purpose factor. If a snake uses it's venom primarily to hunt, the venom tends to be less potent than that of a snake that uses venom primarily as a defensive tool.

the type of venom also varies from species to species, and can depend alot on use. IIRC, defensive use seems to prefer neurotoxins, as they tend to act very quickly, and will allow the snake to escape. While hunters tend to use hemotoxins. (my memory on venom types is not they best, and I may well be remembering incorrectly) Venom type also seemed to be affected by frequency of use, in as much as it relates to how costly it is for the snake to make the venom. Defensive uses are less frequent than hunting uses. It would make sense that a hunting snake will need to produce more venom over the course of it's life than a snake that uses venom primarily for defence. A snake that uses venom less often can afford to invest more resources into it's creation, while the snake that uses venom more often, needs a toxin that is less costly to make.

remember, I am an amatuer herpatologist, not an expert, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.
__________________
they guy that told me that was the chief herpatologist and manager of the reptile's for the tulsa zoo. he said an older snake takes much longer to reproduce thier venom supply so they tend to be conservative sometimes even dry biting (no venom injection at all) and young snakes tend to give you the full load. so don't be offended if i take what you said " with a grain of salt"

[Rebailey]

In my younger days we hunted cottonmouths. We would go into the bottoms and find their dens. They smell like rotten eggs. We could smell them before you could see them. We would sneak in to a den slowly. After you could see the den we would stop and start looking for them. It was nothing to see 10 or 12 lying around the den hole. I used an H&R single-shot .410 pistol (12'' barrel) to dispatch them. Have killed as many as 20 in one outing. Let me say again, they smell terrible!!!!

[MCgunner]

I do carry a snake bite kit. I plan to use it if the time comes and I'm more'n an hour from the emergency room. I'll take my chances on getting the incision infected.

[ilbob]

I think I was 5 or 6 once on a camping trip in KY. My mom (sans glasses) woke up in the morning and went to pick up a dirty sock lying on the floor of the tent just inside the door. It moved and startled her, as it was a small copperhead. She made all us kids sit on the cots and screamed for help. Some of the guys we were with came and dispatched it.

[Roadkill]

Cottonmouths and I go back many years. Killed a bunch of them. I wrote a story called "Callie Derrick" that deals with these lovely animals and a crazy woman during the Civil War. Its been printed in several magazines. Its about seven pages long and too much for here. If interested send me a email to sgtroadkill@yahoo or pm and I'll send it to you, if you are interested in cottonmouths I really think you would enjoy it. I'll post it here if the Mods allow.

[frogomatic]

slicing open a snikebite and trying to apply suction to draw out the venom is as useless as cutting open a shot and trying to draw out the injection. My wife is a doctor and has given me a thorough education on the subject of the medical treatment of snakebites(she's worried I'm going to get bit someday while I'm out on a hunt). Slicing open the bite points and/or applying suction only exacerbates the damage being done. All that is accomplished by this is to increase the rate at which the toxin spreads, by increasing the blood flow to and from the affected area. If you are bitten by a snake, keep your heart rate as low as possible, and quickly seek professional help. If the bite is on an extremity(ie foot or hand) lightly apply a turniquet just above the bite. Not so much to completely cut off circulation, but enough to slow it down. The only ways to deal with venom is to let it run its course, or to dose with anti-venom.

@saddlebaum - I take no offence to it, I'm just an amateur with a couple of exotic pets. I've done some research on the subject, but am not formally educated, nor as experienced as a professional.

[Patrick_Henry]

Okay so I did some more looking around on the subject.

No source recommends anytime of cutting into the wound. Period.

The Sawyer extractor seems to be up for debate. Some say go for it others say do not use it. Makes me think maybe I should test mine on a bee sting and just see.

Tourniquets are a no. The blood flow should not be constricted in anyway and tight clothing and bracelets should be removed in case of swelling.

Limb immobilization method is still the most recommended method. This involves splinting the wound and putting it in a sling so that the wound will not be moved. You must then seek immediate medical attention.

[WayneConrad]

PatrickHenry, Thanks for the correction on the Sawyer kit. I mistakenly thought that the Sawyer kit included the cut. I did not understand that it was only the suction component.

[electric wombat]

From this discussion I thought of another research project, if it hasn't been done already. I've read a bunch of journals on the differences between hemotoxic & neurotoxic venom in snakes. Has anyone read or heard anything on why the two different types developed?

[Wineoceros]

Actually, it seems that the "neurotoxin/hemotoxin" distinction is a somewhat misleading one:

http://www.unco.edu/nhs/biology/faculty_staff/mackessy/toxinology.pdf
(see page viii in the Introduction)

[electric wombat]

Yes, yes, I know those terms are misleading as snake venom is a combination of different toxins. But at the present there really isn't any better termanology to use. Either way my train of thought is why the development for different "types" of venom. Why do different species have different types of venom, why not the same type for every species & how did the specific toxins develop. The simple answer is species developed in different parts of the world, eat different types of prey, have different demands, bla bla bla, but I want to dig deeper than just a surface level answer. But that project is going to have to go on the shelf with all the other ones I'd like to get to. Right now I'm working on a project on Nerodia fasciata.

[MCgunner]

There was a thing on Discovery channel about snakes and stories of snake bites, was only a few weeks ago cause I was in bed with this friggin' flu I still have watching it. One guy was stuck in the desert of west Texas/New Mexico for a week after being bit and survived, but he was hallucinating much of it and wasn't a good time. LOL Nearly rotted his arm off, but docs saved it. They had a warden in Africa bit by a mamba that kept his cool, walked out slow, kept his heart rate down. He got to the hospital, they had no anti-venom, but his kidneys eventually got rid of the nero-toxin. Said he couldn't move a muscle and they kept him alive on a respirator. They said the mamba's nero-toxin affects the synaps by blocking acetylcholine, well, they just said it blocked the chemical transmission across the synapse, I added the acetylcholine thing (the hormone that crosses the synapse). There are nerve toxins that block acetylcholinerase, too, and you twitch yourself to death because your nerves can't stop firing, chemical jumps the synaps, but doesn't get broken down on the other side, so the nerve just keeps firing. Anyway, beyond all that, sounds to me that I'd rather be bitten by a viper with myotoxin than that! Better to have maggots growing in your dead muscle mass than die in minutes. They said that folks that panic after a mamba bite have been known to run 100 yards and just keel over dead. OUCH. Add africa to the list of places you really wanna wear your south Texas Ropers (snake boots).

[ronwill]

A Cottonmouth (Water Moccasin) bite can be potentially serious, more so than a Copperhead bite. Most herpetologists place the danger of American venomous species in the following order:

Coral Snake
Rattlesnakes
Cottonmouth
Copperhead

As for first aid, the movement is away from the old cutting the area and sucking the poison out and towards trying to stay calm and get to medical attention immediately. There are many sites for additional information but here's two that I use quite a bit.

http://www.cnah.org/

http://www.venomousreptiles.org/

[electric wombat]

I find the coral snake being at the top of the list kind of odd. I'd think they'd be place third or fourth behind rattlesnake & cottonmouth. Coral snakes rare to find, small, have rear fangs with a small mouth. Meaning to get invenomated by a coral snake you'd have to get bit in the right spot like the web of your fingers otherwise it probably couldn't open its mouth wide enough for the fangs to get to you. How often do you hear of someone getting tagged by a coral snake.

On the other hand the venom is extremely potent. I've heard from professors that if you do get invenomated it may be only one or two drops & it would probably take a few days for the venom to take effect on you body but when it does you drop dead.

[Wineoceros]

I was wondering the same thing, but then realized that it all depends on how they defined "danger" in this context. It sounds like its based entirely on the toxin itself.

[Art Eatman]

Yeah, ranking of toxicity. Coral snake venom is the worst, I've always read. Fortunately, you almost have to volunteer to be bitten to actually have a problem with them. They're not aggressive; kids have been known to pick one up, put it in a pocket and carry it to school and not get bitten.

[ronwill]

Coral Snake venom is the same as a Cobra's, neurotoxic. Although small and rarely bites, when it does it is quite dangerous.

[electric wombat]

Yeah i guess it all depends on what you mean by danger. Toxicity they're on the top of the list. The danger of actually being bitten & invenomated they're toward the bottom.

[CaptMac]

I had a friend bitten twice by the same snake in an eye blink of each other. Not only is venom an issue with Cottonmouths but so is infection. Cottonmouths are of course armed with venom but they also have a bacterria in their mouths and around their teeth, not just the fangs. They tearwhen they come out of a bite, this bacterria is much like the type found in Monitor lizards teeth and mouth. They not only eat live animala but also dead and decaying things, fish, frogs etc. Also some one said you can smell them and boy that is the truth.

[Wineoceros]

They not only eat live animala but also dead and decaying things...
Yes, I just recently read that, and was quite surprised by it. I grew up "learning" that snakes would not eat dead prey. Clearly that was an over-generalization.

[electric wombat]

Also some one said you can smell them and boy that is the truth.
That's one of their defensive mechanisms. It's a musk they spray & it smells rotten to the core. Even worse is when your disecting one & you cut that gland open.

& yeah, anyone who has pet snakes will tell you that they eat dead stuff. I feed my ratsnake thatwed mice. He has no problem eating em. It's kinda cute actually, he opens his mouth & waits for me to put the mouse in it LOL.

[Caimlas]

I've never been bitten by anything other than a garter snake, but by god I've come intentionally close to being bitten by both cottonmouths and copperheads when I was a kid.

My brother and I would hunt snakes (and pretty much everything else we could) when we were kids. I shot a couple of each with a bow and arrow (it took a while), we'd find and collect the young garters (to play with) and we'd occasionally get bitten by the adult ones (while playing with, or trying to kill, them). Garters would sting a bit when they'd sting, but not even as bad as a wasp or a bad scrape, so it was mostly just fun and games for us.

My uncle has had a cottonmouth swim up his pants while he was swimming in the lake as a kid. My grandfather nailed a copperhead with a pistol, mid-strike, when he was walking with my mother (who was then a small child) in the woods.

I stopped hunting snakes when I was in 3rd grade. I saw what I thought (at the time) to be a garter snake making it's way for a large drainage pipe at the end of a culvert. I went after it with a flashlight and a heavy stick. When I was about half way into the pipe, the light shone on the snake (a cottonmouth), coiled about two feet from me, looking agitated and ready to strike. I very, very slowly backed out.

I later looked them up after finding out one of the kids in the neighborhood had died a couple years previously to a snake bite in the very same area as where we'd been hunting. That cured me quickly.

I've since stumbled upon a handful of rattlesnakes; I hate snakes, and if there is a hell, there are certainly snakes there.

[Wineoceros]

I hate snakes, and if there is a hell, there are certainly snakes there.
That's an odd attitude. From your description of your own activities your encounters with snakes have largely consisted of you intentionally harassing and needlessly killing animals (like garter snakes) that are not only harmless, but quite beneficial predators.

They're simply creatures doing what they're designed to do by their genetics. They're not out to get you and, barring the occasional chance accidental encounter, if you'll just leave them alone they'll be more than happy to return the favor.

[Bailey Boat]

As has been stated, the Sawyer does not involve cutting and it may not the the cure all for a bite, but it beats the hell out of doing NOTHING for yourself....... To imobilize the bite site is wonderful, assuming that you don't have to walk out to your transportation... (most bites are on the legs since that's where the snake can reach and is closest to him) Speed of application would be the key here, having it "in the truck" a mile away isn't doing you much good as Mr. Mocosain or Ms. Copperhead is munching on yo' leg..... I keep mine within arms reach when I'm out and about and in snake land. I have used mine on a couple of wasp stings and mosquito bites and it does what it advertises.......

And before anyone slams me, I also take the pre-emptive measures also. I do a fair amount of vacant land inspections and have the snake proof boots AND chaps AND I wear them AND I carry an Extractor in my back pocket......

[springmom]

Coral snake venom is the worst, I've always read. Fortunately, you almost have to volunteer to be bitten to actually have a problem with them. They're not aggressive; kids have been known to pick one up, put it in a pocket and carry it to school and not get bitten.

Proof that God looks after fools and little children. ;)

Not only is venom an issue with Cottonmouths but so is infection. Cottonmouths are of course armed with venom but they also have a bacterria in their mouths and around their teeth, not just the fangs. They tearwhen they come out of a bite, this bacterria is much like the type found in Monitor lizards teeth and mouth

As I understand it, ALL snakes, poisonous and non-poisonous, have extremely dirty mouths. They lack saliva, which functions in part to kill bacteria in the mouth. My middle son has a ball python (which I'm currently foster parenting...long story) who struck at me one time when he was very young and not yet tame, and I took great pains to clean the wound and keep it disinfected until it healed.

If you get bitten, even by a garter snake, make the effort to clean the bite and keep it clean.

Springmom

[MCgunner]

I don't kill snakes, will side step them, unless they present a danger somehow, like I have to return on that trail or it's in my back yard or something. I killed a rattler with 9 buttons nearly as long as I am tall (6 feet) out of my back yard once. When I was a kid, we used to go out after a heavy rain after snakes, but I grew up. I don't normally shoot what is not a threat or I can't eat. When you mature, you gain some sort of ethics.....hopefully. To be frightened of snakes is not logical just as arachnophobia is not logical, but I know people are. Usually, it's just ignorance of the subject, though. When I was a kid, I had a fear of crawfish, of all things. LOL Now, I boil and eat 'em or bait hooks with 'em. Heck, my wife pratically tore the bedroom up one day because of a little lizard on the wall, LOL! I just grabbed the little bugger by the tail, waved him at the wife for grins, before putting him on the back porch to hunt mosquitoes. What harm can a lizard do, well, not including the Gila monster?

I've eaten rattlers. They're quite good chicken fried and a large rattler makes a good meal. Wife won't touch it, just don't know what she's missing. :D She won't eat squirrel either, unless I tell her it's rabbit. Then she thinks it's quite yummy. Go figure.

[ronwill]

Springmom, it's not entirely true that snakes have no saliva. Remember they swallow their pray whole and some lubrication is necessary. As for bites, you should clean the bite no matter what kind of animal it was. I have kept many different kinds of animals over the years, have been bitten by non-venomous snakes with no ill effects and twice by venomous species (rattlesnake and water moccasin/ cotton mouth). Fortunately the venomous bites were glancing with little or no venom injected.

[ColeK]

I have never been bitten by a snake but being from the Deep South I have had numerous close encounters. I would rather have an encounter with a rattle snake than a cottonmouth.

A rattle snake will try to get away from you if you will back up. But a cottonmouth will attack.

In the spring cottonmouths are at their worst.

While fishing with a friend one fine spring day we heard a loud hissing. My friend asked me what that sound was and why was I looking up at the trees we were under? I told him there was a large mad cottonmouth close by and that I was checking the trees to be sure that he was not above us on a limb.

I then looked behind us and there was a cottonmouth coming toward us with its head a foot or more out of the water. The snake was about 25 yards away when I showed it to my friend. He went nuts and started throwing things at the snake. When the cottonmouth got with in three feet of the boat I shot its head off.

The moral of this story is that cottonmouths are very aggressive and dangerous and if you are close to water you need to be careful and be prepared.

[btg3]

Pulled my folks' pontoon boat out for the winter last October and found a small cotton mouth up in the motor mount. Poked at it until it stuck its head out and whacked it dead with a broom stick. That boat was tied to a floating dock that kids played around all summer. Wonder whether that dock might be a haven for them???

[MCgunner]

I have never been bitten by a snake but being from the Deep South I have had numerous close encounters. I would rather have an encounter with a rattle snake than a cottonmouth.

A rattle snake will try to get away from you if you will back up. But a cottonmouth will attack.

In the spring cottonmouths are at their worst.

While fishing with a friend one fine spring day we heard a loud hissing. My friend asked me what that sound was and why was I looking up at the trees we were under? I told him there was a large mad cottonmouth close by and that I was checking the trees to be sure that he was not above us on a limb.

I then looked behind us and there was a cottonmouth coming toward us with its head a foot or more out of the water. The snake was about 25 yards away when I showed it to my friend. He went nuts and started throwing things at the snake. When the cottonmouth got with in three feet of the boat I shot its head off.

The moral of this story is that cottonmouths are very aggressive and dangerous and if you are close to water you need to be careful and be prepared.

I'd bet that was a non-venomous water snake. They will often faux attack, even strike, if threatened. I've had 'em do it to me. It's part of their defense mechanism. Never had a cottonmouth act aggressive. Not sayin' it can't happen, just figurin' highest probability was a non-venomous water snake of some kind.

[skynyrd1911]

I used to bass fish out of a float tube when I lived in central OK. Ponds and small lakes....even coves of large lakes. I was always watching for them, but Iall I ever saw was water snakes. That being said I DO NOT fish out of a tube here in NE Arkansas. Only out of my boat. ;)

[41magsnub]

I was chased out of a lake by what I thought at the time was a water moccasin near Olethe (spelling) KS years and years ago. I'm not so sure now, but it was on top of the water and everything. I was in the Army so any sort of firearm was a lot more trouble than it would seem to be worth with the whole Armory restriction. I just ran for it since the closest thing to a weapon I had was a Kmart special spinning rod.

[xring44]

I think cottonmouths are like all species, some more easily riled. As a kid, I used to help my grandfather seine bait for trot lines. He commerical fished and we worked hard to keep bait. We would seine pot holes along the Arkansas river after high water receded for bait. He would cut a pole and thrash the water with it to run the snakes off, most would leave, but many times a cottonmouth wouldn't. Not only would he not leave, he'd come to the ruckus:eek: They can be aggressive!

If your in snake country and have observed them swimming, its no problem distinguishing the water snake from the cottonmouth, the cottonmouth rides high in the water whereas the water snake rides low in the water.

[MCgunner]

I've been attacked by water snakes that had half their body out of the water. They'll ride high if they want to. LOL! But, yeah, normally, you'll see the head out. Sometimes you won't know right away if it's a water snake or a turtle getting air.

[krimmie]

Never been bitten, but came close with this one. I was busy looking for game, my son grabbed my shoulder and said; "Did you plan on stepping on that?"...well, no I didn't! Anyway, had the camera and snapped this shot.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s274/krimgeo/snake004.jpg

[ronwill]

There are many myths about snakes, some passed down from generation to generation. If your going to hunt or camp you should do a little research on the wild life you may come into contact with. One of the most often repeated is that a water moccasin will chase you. It's more likely your in the path it wants to go and your in the way. I have seen many and never been chased by any. Here are some sites that may be of interest:

http://www.umass.edu/nrec/snake_pit/pages/myth.html

http://www.texassnakes.net/myths.html

[rcmodel]

I was chased out of a lake by what I thought at the time was a water moccasin near Olethe (spelling) KS years and years ago.Yep! Nasty little buggers ain't they.
They will chase you, but they ain't cottonmouth water-moccasins.

Most likely the Northern Water Snake or Diamondback Water Snake so common in Kansas.

Fugenugly black things with faint brown patterns that will often come after you!

Non-Poisonous, but I still hate them because they are so aggressive!

rcmodel

[MCgunner]

It's just their defense mechanism. They don't have any sting to a bite, but they act like it and scare off the predator by doing so.

[rcmodel]

Works for me!

I grew up with rattlesnakes, and they all scare the stuffing out of me when I come on one unexpected.

Then if they decide to chase me, that's even worse!

rcmodel

[MCgunner]

Well, I went to my place today to take a hog trap down there and set it. I wore my snake boots and toted my Contender/.410 barrel in a shoulder holster. This IS the time of year. I didn't see one today, though. it's really wet down there, makes ya nervous. LOL

[G17Steve]

My yellow lab got bit while in the water\swamp right below the neck in the meat of his chest,almost lost him due to the fact it was late and no vets were open,got him to 24 hour vet several ours later and he made it.

[cottonmouth]

My bark is more dangerous that my bite!:D

J.B.

[Leanwolf]

PATRICK HENRY - " The Sawyer extractor seems to be up for debate. Some say go for it others say do not use it. Makes me think maybe I should test mine on a bee sting and just see."

I can guarantee you the Sawyer Extractor works very, very well on bee and wasp stings.

I've used mine on both, plus on a couple of yellowjacket stings on my wife. She is very allergic to stings, but the Sawyer did its work and she had no problem.

Last Sept., I was in the mountains scouting for elk, when a yellowjacket hit me on the neck. I used my Sawyers, and within a few mintues, I was unable to tell I'd been hit.

Fortunately I have never had to use it on a snake bite, but I assure you if I were hit, I'd definitely use the Sawyers kit on the bite. ;)

FWIW.

L.W.

[MCgunner]

I guess I need one of those Sawyer kits. I've read about 'em. They aren't real compact, though. I could keep it on my vehicle while down at my place, would only be 1/2 mile from it at any given time, or if I'm wearing my cargo pants, I'd have room for it if I could remember to put it there. I've never been real good about that sort of thing and the older I get, the more forgetful I get. :rolleyes:

For me, though, number ONE is wearing snake boots or leggings whenever I'm down there. Best to prevent the bite than treat it.

[electric wombat]

Krimmie, that's a great picture. I've taken numerous pictures of cottonmouths but for some reason no matter how much I poke at em & irritate em they never want to open their mouths like that for me. Myabe I'm not holding my mouth the right way LOL!

[marksman13]

Whether he's chasing me or I'm in his way don't really matter when he's coming in my direction at a high rate of speed with business on his mind. He's dead either way. I'll let some snakes live, but the venomous ones die on site. Too many dogs and people running around our place.

[krimmie]

electric wombat Krimmie, that's a great picture. I've taken numerous pictures of cottonmouths but for some reason no matter how much I poke at em & irritate em they never want to open their mouths like that for me. Myabe I'm not holding my mouth the right way LOL!

Oddly enough, I didn't have to encourage the snakes stance...no poking needed.

[FALZOO-XD]

Never had any trouble with them in the swamps down here in S.C. but always wear my snake boots

[ShunZu]

Reelfoot Lake, TN. I've seen some monster Cottonmouths in that swampy lake for the last 45 years, but this big boy decided to nibble on a catfish pole one night. The guy couldn't get it off the hook, so a paddle on a rock crushed its head. The head was about 4 inches across before the paddle smashed it. The guy was about 6' tall.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee194/ShunZu/cottonmouth2.jpg
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee194/ShunZu/cottonmouth1.jpg

[FuzzyBunny]

I have been around water moccasins and seen alot of things.

They will drop out of trees into you boat while fishing.
They will swim up and get in the boat with you also.

Here in Texas the buggers WILL chase you! I think the critters are territorial and want you gone.

Let the experts say what they will about them but I have had them go out of the way to get at me.

[stevereno1]

I've had dogs that got bit (we say bit in georgia). Nasty, nasty, nasty! I don't fear the snakes that I can see, I fear the ones that i don't!

[meef]

I remember a really, really serious case of cottonmouth once. Fortunately it was a long time ago.

Man, let me assure you I will never, ever drink Bali Hai and Budweiser again.

Ever.

:(

[stevereno1]

In Ga., we have four poisonous snakes.

#1 the cottonmouth- It will make you scared of dying.

#2 the rattlesnake- you will think that you may die!

#3 the copperhead- you will wish that you would die aldeady!

#4 the coral snake- You have a good chance of dying!

[Jason_G]

I have been around water moccasins and seen alot of things.

They will drop out of trees into you boat while fishing.
They will swim up and get in the boat with you also.

Here in Texas the buggers WILL chase you! I think the critters are territorial and want you gone.

Let the experts say what they will about them but I have had them go out of the way to get at me.
Yep.
They will chase you a ways if you piss them off. I've also had them try to get in the boat with me before. They usually do this after a flood, but can get cantankerous pretty much any other time as well. And they do drop out of trees occasionally. I run yo-yo's and trot-lines for catfish at night and I always check the limbs of the cypress trees real well before checking the lines underneath them. A cottonmouth in your boat will surely ruin your night, and quite possibly your britches.

Jason

[marksman13]

Damn, that's a huge cotton mouth!