[Katty]

Ok I see one of these things the Ruger Vaquero and I want to laugh. I Ruger just trying to make a few bucks?
I really don't get it.
John Wayne arried Colt SAA in his cowboy movies.

[Marshall]

I Ruger just trying to make a few bucks

Isn't that the point?

I'm not sure I know what you're post is really about. What are you asking?

[Vern Humphrey]

The Ruger Blackhawk and Vaquero are fine revolvers in their own right. The Colt SAA was not being manufactured when Ruger brought out his Blackhawk, and the tratitional SAA is neither as strong nor as safe as the Blackhawk.

[Cosmoline]

I don't think he always used a Colt, either. I seem to remember that a lot of the props in the 50's and 60's were really cheapo Great Western replicas. But in any case the John Wayne stamped firearms (and ammo) have long been confusing. IIRC Winchester came out with a John Wayne rifle way back, but chambered it in some bizarre cartridge Wayne never used. I saw "John Wayne" .30-30 ammo the other day in the store as well. A real John wayne replica would be a beat up '92 firing 5-in-1 blanks.

[Hawk]

If the Vaquero gives you mirth, wait'll you get a load of the John Wayne Talo (http://www.taloinc.com/) edition.

And the Red River D (http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/john_wayne.asp) should be worth a chuckle or two.

But they're both authorized by the Wayne Estate so I'm not seeing a problem.

I'm not sure where this is going either. I do hope it's not another of those "USFA isn't a Colt" observations. A canary isn't a steam shovel either. Colt's are nice but things have changed - they don't make enough SAAs at just over 3K a year in 2006 to even supply the members that joined SASS during the same period.

If it wasn't for alternatives, those fine folks in CAS would have to fold up the tent and find another hobby.

[DougDubya]

That is a GORGEOUS Vaquero, regardless.

[slzy]

anything with "faux mellow aged ivory" can't be all bad.

[BlkHawk73]

He carries the SAA because Ruger hadn't made the Vaquero yet.

1) Ruger wan;t he entity behind the VW NV, Talo was. They contracted Ruger to produce the revolvwer under agreement of the John Wayne estate and had the embellishemtns done elsewhere. They then distributed it themselves via thier own distribution group. With it neing theman's birthyear, Talo and other manufacturers wanted to pay tribute to this great American. Where's the bad in that? Oooohhh but it's not a trueColt branded SAA...maybe becasue Colt's dying or so it seems. Fewr and fewer models and I didn't see them doing anything to pay homage to John Wayne... Yup, THEY cared enough to dedicate a fine firearm to his legacy for curent generations to enjoy. :roll:

[Jim March]

The New Vaquero is similar in size and heft to the SAA.

Better yet, they didn't DARE apply the usual Ruger fake-color-case. We'd a strung 'em up if they'd done THAT.

:)

[tbird911]

I shoot two New Model Vaqueros in stainless 45lc. . . It would really take some work to convince me that there was a better all around six-gun. When you look at the price, build and durability, the Rugers are hard to beat.

Tbird

[gb6491]

Fewr and fewer models and I didn't see them doing anything to pay homage to John Wayne.
There have been some Colt (or Colt based) John Wayne Commemoratives over the years-:)
Regards,
Greg

[Virginian]

"It would really take some work to convince me that there was a better all around six-gun."
Well I think my OLD Vaqueros in .44 Magnum are better all around six guns. So there ! :-)

[Joe Meyer]

Yep, I really like my Vaquero. It was made in 1996. I think it's a better platform for the .45 Colt than the New Vaquero. I like 300 grain bullets going 1300 feet per second.

[tbird911]

The old model vaquero is nice-- heavier loads are not a problem for it. The New Model is smaller and has some refinement. I shoot Cowboy action and dont use the pistol for self defense- so 300 grn is of no real purpose for my application. If one has smaller hands, the new model is hard to beat.\


Tbird

[The Lone Haranguer]

Wayne was making Westerns long before Ruger was even in business.

[Double Naught Spy]

I love it. Y'all are debating the gun choices of fictional characters played by a real and charismatic person in terms of product endorsement when neither the fictional character or the actor actually made the decisions as to the make and model of guns used.

I guess that along those lines, we can talk about firepower and terminal ballistics in movies to reflect which guns are better in real life as well. Maybe y'all didn't notice, but John Wayne did use some of those super cool endless ammo revolvers in a couple of movies. I don't recall Colt ever making one of those.

[StrawHat]

Wonder what Weatherby's tribute will be?

He did own a few of them.

[foghornl]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAYYY out of my price range, but a beautiful revolver.

[JohnBT]

"Ruger just trying to make a few bucks?"

Like nobody else ever did that?

Trivia time !!!!

Name the movie he carried a .22 in.

http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/gg/ggardenour/AR83039.JPG

You mean he never carried one???

1983 and only $475 MSRP. What a deal. ;)

John

[Sunray]

Think in terms of, "He who sells the most, wins." It's marketing. Commemoratives, generally, don't hold their value any better than the regular firearm of the same make. Collectors, if you can find one who wants it, don't want 'em unless they're still in the original, unopened box.

[qwert65]

didn't he carry a .22 pepperbox in Rooster cogburn?

[Old Fuff]

Movie actor John Wayne wasn't exactly a "Colt man" in personal life, as he owned a number of handguns made by other makers - including Colt but not limited to that company. And of course he didn't carry a Single Action Army revolver in movies that weren't set in the western era.

So far as movies are concerned, he carried whatever firearm(s) were provided by the movie company's prop department.

Any number of gun makers have offered John Wayne commemoratives of various kinds. Most if not all of these were produced under license issued by the Wayne family. The money goes to various charities. Considering this I can't imagine why anyone would object.

I suspect that if today’s Ruger single action revolvers had been available during the 1800’s their strength, more rugged lockwork that is less subject to breakage, and the ability to safely carry a fully loaded cylinder would have forced Colt to either revise the design of their 1873 model, or drop it all together. At the time it was favored simply because nothing better was offered. During the first four decades of the 20th century sales dropped like a rock in a pond, and didn’t come back until the 1950’s when westerns dominated television. This is when Bill Ruger had the foresight to introduce an improved single action revolver while Colt sat on their butts and let a prime opportunity go by. It took them years to wake up. :uhoh:

[Harve Curry]

I recall reading John Wayne's first Colt SAA was either a 38-40 or a 32-20?
There were alot of movies made with early 1890's to 1917 era double actions, so the actors could shoot faster.
The Ruger was a leaping improvement on the Colt SAA design. Then again when he added the transfer bar safety about 1970, making a SAA safe to carry with a live round under the hammer.

[Old Fuff]

Understand that I deeply love the single action platform for all-around shooting, but I wouldn't pick one as the handgun of choice for a defensive weapon. Even Elmer Keith switched to double-action Smith & Wessons during his later years. While you seldom see them in movies, during the last third of the 19th century Colt (and others) sold a lot of double action revolvers, and an examination of period photographs and literture will show their considerable popularity.

That said, the S.A. style still remains an excellent choice for an outdoorsman or woman where speed of shooting and reloading is less important. This is especially true where heavy loads in largebore cartridges is involved.

Never the less, as improvements in arms came along, westerners were quick to upgrade, and this was the point I was trying to make.

[Rexster]

Y'all keep in mind there were never any "old model" Vaqueros. Both the Vaqueros and New Vaqueros are New Models. Ruger did not resurrect the the "old model" lockwork and install it in the Blackhawk-sized Vaqueros. And, according to John Taffin, who can be considered an authority on single action sixguns, some of the sixguns used by John Wayne were indeed Great Westerns, which in my opinion pale in quality compared to Colt or Ruger, though a few may may been hand-fitted to a higher level.

[Old Fuff]

And, according to John Taffin, who can be considered an authority on single action sixguns, some of the sixguns used by John Wayne were indeed Great Westerns,

Tis true, but ya' don't understand the movie business...

This was back in the 1950's whe Colt wasn't making Single Actions, but Hy Hunter (AKA Great Western) was. Compared to Colts, which were starting to go for big bucks, A new Great Western was inexpensive, and worked fine for a prop gun. Prop guns were and are, thrown around and abused in all sorts of ways - and the powder used in 5 & 1 blanks will eat out a bore in the blink of an eye. Today a lot of the props are made in Italy - for a very good reason.

[dagger dog]

IF !
A !RELIABLE! large bore double action revolver was available in the time periods that most of the DUKES films depict, he would have been carrying one!
Now thats a weird picture PILGRIM, a S&W triple lock on his hip instead of that 43/4" barreled yellow ivory gripped Great Western Colt SAA clone.

At one of the recent shows there was a Great Western Collectors booth . I did not realize that there was interest in these Italian made Colt clones. At the time they were produced the Rugers and Uberti's weren't around, they filled the void, I guess Bill Ruger saw that there was a market and shortly there after designed the original Blackhawks.

On the modern market U.S.A. Firearms Co. is making their Colt SAA clone , it is a exact copy down to the smallest details, but with modern steels and production methods.
Then there is Bretta/Uberti, Pieta, and some othe quality makers out there.
To have the ability to look foward in time could make a man a million!

[cdrt]

The Cowboy Hall of Fame in OKC had the revolvers John Wayne used in The Shootist on display when we visited there in 1994. They were Great Westerns. The plaque is kind of hard to read in the photo but it indicates they came from Great Western. They also had his personal Colt SAA, which I believe has been bought by a private party. And they had the two large lever Model 92 Winchesters from Eldorado. One of the two Model 92s from Stagecoach was recently sold at auction. It had to go through a Federal transfer since it had a 15 and half inch barrel.

[Old Fuff]

The original Great Western revolvers were first made in the United States, and later in Germany by Sauer. They were never made in Italy.

The new Great Western II revolvers are made in Italy, and marketed by EMF.

During the last third of the 19th century Colt made their models 1877 and 1878 double-action revolvers that were very popular on the western frontier. Their mid-frame model 1888 and 1892 double-action / hand ejector revolvers were quickly accepted, and the U.S. Army adopted the model 1892 to replace their model 1873 single actions.

There is a big difference between what happened in the historical west, and Hollywood's myth.

[Hawk]

Where'd the 1875 Remington fit into that mess relative to competing with the 1873?

I suppose neither of the single actions slowed down double action sales much and the Army change in 1892 likely would have put it to pasture but for movies and CAS?

I wonder if there was a spike in civilian numbers when the 1873s were surplused out (1911?) that kept them somewhat in the public consciousness?

The current fixation with the 1873 doesn't seem to be in context with what was likely actually going in the late 19th century but there was so much going on I find myself easily confused (nothing new there).

[Harve Curry]

Kinda getting off topic but there were alot of different guns out there. Just like now we have had various makers of semi auto pistols in 22's, 380, 9mm. In the late 19th century were revolvers made by Marlin, Hopkins & Allen, Merwin & Holbert, Harrington & Richardson, Remington, S&W, several tool companies, plus imports and patent infringements.
Most were cheaper then any Colt model. So just like nowadays you bought what you could afford to be armed.

[RichardB]

"Ok, so what's up with Ruger, John Wayne was a Colt man."

All of the above and consider the Wayne Estate licensed the use of his name for this project. The fantasy that is Hollywood meets todays business needs.

[dagger dog]

Hawk,
Thats a unique veiw you have ,could it have been the surplus thing? Or does the fact that the boomer group brought up on the boob tube was brainwashed into the 1873 Colt SAA being the only cowboy gun along with the 1892 winchester lever gun.

I have been watching older western films from the silents to the late 30's
You see a whole lot of other guns and leather in the older films. The thought being the older guns of the period were used up in the production of the films of that era.

By the late '40s, and I don't think there were many western movies made during the war ,TV took over, and due to the overwhelming popularity of westerns they were forced to use the 1873's etc!

[Hawk]

All I've got is conjecture and more questions than answers.

The CAS folks are pretty upfront about drawing inspiration from the movies rather than history. Too bad my history is weak.

I hadn't dug into the Colt's 1877-8 DAs until Fuff's post - I hadn't realized the 1873 was that "squeezed". There was presumably a metric pantload of converted Remington 1858s - I believe around 132,000 were shipped but I've no idea how many were converted. Then comes the 1875 and Colt's offering DAs within a couple years of the SAA turning up in the commercial market.

I'd like to know what the respective pricing was SAA vs. Colt's own DA. How many Remingtons in .44 got converted would be interesting as well.

1873 to 1892 is a pretty short service span for a sidearm or at least it's pretty weak compared to the 1911. I thought the 1873s were retired but not surplused until 1911 but could be wrong on this. Assuming the Colt's DAs were available in the chamberings popular in the 1873 and were reasonably reliable I can't guess at an advantage that would have kept the 1873 going strong other than possibly price and that's pure conjecture.

I need a book or three.

[theNoid]

Don't really care if he used Rugers, Great Westerns, Colts, or otherwise...I would love to have a matched pair of each of the Rugers, USFA, Winchester, and Colt commemorative pieces...all are beautiful if you were to ask me. Of course, I am sure I'd be pissing all the collectors off as I would indeed shoot these great firearms on at least a semi-regular basis. :evil:

Noidster

[Hawk]

My John Wayne Ruger has been getting a fair amount of use.

Can you imagine what the Duke would say if he knew something with his name was a safe queen? It's in the spirit of the thing not to let that happen.

The USFA looks pretty servicable as well - even comes with a rig. Automatic holster wear - might as well shoot it.