The THR Official Civil Disobedience Thread


March 11, 2008, 08:20 PM
I held an emergency session of the Executive Staff of THR Rebels and the vote was unanimous in favor of having this thread.
Granted I was the only one in attendance, still the vote was unanimous...

Rules: Rules are for bending and breaking. Just keep posts civil and polite and where a kid can participate.

The Executive Staff of THR Rebels is fed up with Political Correctness, Indoctrination, Brainwashing, Propaganda and Whiny-Butt-itis

I expect most folks are mature enough around here. I mean the gals are not going to get upset reading about flour sack panties and the guys are not going to blush seeing condoms mentioned.

I want hear gasps of Political Correct all over the globe , and the sounds of hands of going for chest...
I want Blood Pressures to soar, and veins to burst on Anti-Gunners, Politicians and Whiny Butts.

I want kids sharing about shooting, hunting, taking Martial Arts, using knives , running with scissors and leaving the toilet seat up... pictures are encouraged.

Ladies in the Military, LEO, in little black dresses , camo, messing with evil black guns to blackpowder.
I want to see targets killed, from paper to deer, to doves to you name it.

Show 'em that 3 pc tailored suit, diamond ring and Ivory Stocked pistol.
Share about them hi-dollar shotguns custom fitted.
Dove hunting down South with a pile of doves as tall as you are.

Military, LEO, Armored Guards, Security, Bikers ...everyone.

Physically Limited, Elderly...share about hunting, shooting sports...

We are not buying into Tyranny's political correctness, pampering sensitivities, and diminishing one's "grit" to survive.

Lets get rowdy and loud and stir up trouble!

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Eric F
March 11, 2008, 08:32 PM
OK GREAT! this is great really!

March 11, 2008, 08:34 PM
I expect most folks are mature enough around here.

Hah. I posted pics of taking my 12 year old shooting last summer and out of 30 posts, 20 were bitching about his haircut.

But, in the spirit of the OP's intent, I'll try again.

Very un-correct parenting here yes?
Oh, he keeps it in his room hanging on the wall, how's that for politically incorrect.

Oh my, the deadly "handgun" and Molon Labe hat combo.

March 11, 2008, 08:35 PM
OK. Rowdy. Alright. Frank Lautenburg is a poo-poo head. There, I said it. :neener:

March 11, 2008, 08:35 PM
An 11 y/o shooting suppressed rebel enough for ya?

March 11, 2008, 08:39 PM

Bunch I run with, parents parent and mentors mentor.
These kids can and do come to us about anything. They are not sheltered from reality as the government thinks they should be.

So naturally they have had the talk about the bird and bees and know about condoms and all that.

Condoms are also one way to keep wet, snow, mud out of a long gun barrel.
Balloons will do the same thing.

Flour Sack Panties goes way back. Folks were watching money and flour came in canvas and cotton sacks. Folks made what they wanted, made clothes and did not just things away, most often there was still something that could be or a use found for.
Cotton is cotton and it does not matter if it has a name and logo of a flour company on it.


Kids filled balloons with some old flour. This was not an easy feat, still they did it.
Water balloons were filled with food coloring.

One of the grandpa's is pretty good about making stuff with balloons, he made this donkey.
Sick looking thing, looked like it inhaled too much Spitzer No. 9. We all know too much gun cleaning is not good for one's longetivy... *zing*

Do you realize how much of a fun mess shooting a balloon with flour can be!?
Then shoot the balloon with red water and you really have a mess! *evil grin*

That poooor old donkey, just a wobbling, one of the little ladies put 'em out of his misery...
Proper load is .44 rat shot in case you run across such a need.

Oh, we did some "lock" tests. Kid takes a lock and using belt , beats the daylight out of a target.

<hand to ear>
Did I just hear a Anti gunner have a heart attack?

Larry Ashcraft
March 11, 2008, 08:40 PM
How about a cute little girl learning about shotgunning? This picture is a couple of years old.

March 11, 2008, 08:59 PM

Hey if that kid is yours, he's got a great teacher; good grip technique with interlocking hand over hand and thumbs forward, along with proper body positioning. My son's a lot like that too, although occasionally I'll catch him doing something inane, like shooting his Taurus 92 and Walther P22 at the same time; or holding his gun sideways and shooting it gangsta' style. In which case I'll just wait till he's done shooting, and then I'll smack him upside his head. Truth is though he's a very good shot, even better with his .22LR rifle.

March 11, 2008, 09:03 PM
Well, Rudyard Kipling seems to be unPC these days. One of is best:


I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o'beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:

O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's ``Thank you, Mister Atkins,'' when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's ``Thank you, Mr. Atkins,'' when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy how's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints:
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;

While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country," when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
But Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!

March 11, 2008, 09:05 PM
Yeah, he's mine. And he's an incredible student. Soaks up EVERYTHING. I wish I learned as quickly as he does. I only have to correct something *once* and I never have to say anything about it again. He's plenty accurate too. With my P22, or P239, if he really focuses, he'll put a magazine in a 3" hole @21ft.

Seriously. I wish I could correct myself so quickly when I catch myself doing something wrong.

March 11, 2008, 09:08 PM
Larry, hahah, man, I can just see an anti flipping right out over that one.

March 11, 2008, 09:10 PM
Larry -

You sure that picture is only a couple of years old? That little girl is the spitting image of my sister when she was that age. In fact, with your permission, I'd like to send it to her, so she can see her twin.

And while I could get in big trouble for telling her current age, let me put it this way. When she was that age Richard Nixon's highest office to date was vice president.

March 11, 2008, 09:13 PM
I always extend the bayonet on my Mosin when I shoot it at the range.

March 11, 2008, 09:16 PM
The other day my wife heard the grandkids (girls, 7 & 5) talk about driving down to the store and looking at guns! They were just talking like most would about pretend going somewhere but that really cracked me up.

Of course their Daddy and Mommy both carry as do I and Grandma is pro-gun also.

Raisin' 'em right! :D

March 11, 2008, 09:52 PM
At five, he shoots better than his old man did at ten. I bet his teachers would faint if they saw this picture. Hmm, maybe I'll get it put on a tshirt for him.:evil:

Bad Santa
March 11, 2008, 10:12 PM
I'm going to use that as my sig, sm. I Love it!

Larry Ashcraft
March 11, 2008, 10:18 PM
You sure that picture is only a couple of years old?
Sadie will be four in July. And there's no possible way there's anybody as cute as her. You must be mistaken. :p

Oh, yeah, permission granted. ;)

March 11, 2008, 10:38 PM
Got to start them young.

Bad Santa
March 11, 2008, 10:39 PM
Hey, it didn't work.


March 11, 2008, 10:47 PM
12 year old shoots guns, kills poor defenseless animals. Oh my!:D

March 11, 2008, 10:52 PM
RoadKingLarry, maby you should start with a commander size. It might be a problem when the gun is bigger then the person:D

March 11, 2008, 10:52 PM
But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. -Declaration of Independence

March 11, 2008, 11:30 PM
Ooh... I like that sm. And in that vein...

Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes. But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments, and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of the legions which surround it.
-- James Madison. Federalist Papers #46

March 11, 2008, 11:38 PM
Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes. But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments, and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of the legions which surround it.
-- James Madison. Federalist Papers #46

Oh the irony. A man who lobbied against a bill of rights discussing citizens and arms. The same man who put the militia under federal control discussing opposing tyranny with the militia.

March 11, 2008, 11:40 PM
Irreverence is the champion of liberty and its only sure defense - Mark Twain

March 11, 2008, 11:44 PM
I'll see if I can find a good picture of her "twin" to send back to you to see the similarity.

March 11, 2008, 11:52 PM
Are politically incorrect tactics okay?

I mean, it'd probably be a Bad Thing to slap this sucker...

...which is printed on sturdy vinyl with an equally sturdy adhesive, on top of a "no guns" sign...

Yup. That'd be a Bad Thing...

Gotta wonder how long it'd be before the management would notice it...

Brian Dale
March 12, 2008, 12:03 AM
Went out and bought a cheap pair o' comfy shoes, came back home, logged on and:

1) noticed the title
2) noticed the author
3) thought, "Uh-oh..." :evil:

Glad that they're runnin' shoes. :D

March 12, 2008, 12:38 AM
Are politically incorrect tactics okay?

Oh heck yeah.

I like the stickers, but I am thinking some little ones about the size of a LLBean Zipper pull with thermometer would be neat.

Book of matches would be neat too...

Remember when business would have little trinkets like this?
The phone company did little telephones...
Hardware stores did a little wrench...
Folks would get these as key rings and of course it was a advertising thing.

Lots of places had matches in a bowl. Folks snagged these matches, and not just for smokers, also to light candles and the burner on a gas stove, or to have handy for whatever reason.

Kids like to put zipper pulls on backpacks...Adults are nosy and have to see what a kid has "this time" as a zipper pull.

Go out to eat and in leaving a tip, leave a book of matches.

Double whammy would be for a parent to have a key chain on the table see with this, and then leave a matchbook with that logo.

It would only take a second to attach one to a ceiling fan, or lamp pull in a No-Gun Zone.

I have this mind picture of a anti running out into the street pulling out hair as everywhere they turn are key chains and matchbooks and stickers.

<honk-honk!> "Bam" Another one bites the dust...

Brainwash Back I say...

Might have to remove picture of a gun for kids and in Zero Tolerance schools settings...
Message is the same...

March 12, 2008, 12:49 AM
Problem is, the minute the sign goes up and a place gets robbed, you're going to catch the blame, not the antis that run the place...

Brian Dale
March 12, 2008, 02:13 AM
I usually blame the criminals.

March 12, 2008, 02:57 AM
I'll betcha sm has read "Steal This Book."

March 12, 2008, 03:01 AM
Yes, we actually take things from the Iraqis. We figured we would have more fun with it than they would. Yes the bad guys over here can get full auto UZI's. It is a good thing I know a little about firearms, no one new where the saftey selector was, all the stamping is in Arabic. So I just had to go to the range and show them how to use it.

Brian Dale
March 12, 2008, 04:01 AM
Good man. How much will it cost to get it chromed?

Separate item: we all know about owning small earmuffs to take kids shooting. I learned a while back that loud noises actually cause some folks physical pain, more than the rest of us. One kid I know has some physical/mental challenges; along with those, he used to be scared of fireworks. They were probably just hurting his ears.

One Fourth of July he was visiting, and I realized that I had earmuffs his size. After putting the muffs on, he went from don't-like-'em to These Are Great! in about two minutes.

Kids and fireworks: always a good thing.

March 12, 2008, 04:32 AM
OK, here's a pic of the wife's 6yr old brother taking the drum-fed beast for a spin

March 12, 2008, 08:04 AM

My 13 year old shooting my P95.... She has already claimed it as hers so when she turns 21 I guess I will be giving up my first handgun to her....or maybe I will just buy her one of her own.

March 12, 2008, 08:23 AM

March 12, 2008, 08:25 AM

Grizzly Adams
March 12, 2008, 10:22 AM
I don't have any pictures but do have a story.

Last October the 21st my daughter was in labor with her third child and was having some pretty sharp contractions. She and my son-in-law decided that they would take a walk around outside to see if the contractions would ease up or if they needed to head to the hospital. As they were heading out the door the son-in-law asked her if she would like to shoot a squirrel. She said sure so he went back in and got her 22 rifle and they walked off the porch about 25 yards and one ran up a tree. She killed it and after he retrieved it and skinned it she said lets go to the hospital. About 2 hrs. latter my second grandson was born. So I guess "YOU MIGHT BE A REDNECK IF ...."

March 12, 2008, 10:29 AM
An 11 y/o shooting suppressed rebel enough for ya? ~siglite

Wow, siglite! That kid's got great form, good grip. I bet you're proud.
A new Brian Enos? ;)

March 12, 2008, 10:35 AM
Teaching the next generation.

March 12, 2008, 04:08 PM
I'll betcha sm has read "Steal This Book."

My "forgetter" kicked in. That title rings a bell, still I honestly don't know if I have read it.
Nice thing about being over age 50, I do have another excuse. *smile*

Civil Disobedience by Thoreau I know I have read numerous times...

So instead of a "Soundtrack" for this thread, I am going to share some Quotes and some Civil Disobedience I have done.

Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is man’s original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress had been made, through disobedience and through rebellion. - Oscar Wilde

March 12, 2008, 04:26 PM
James Brady and Carolyn McCarthy just lost bladder control.

March 12, 2008, 08:42 PM
Love the squirrel story, Griz!!

March 12, 2008, 08:58 PM
How about a cute little girl learning about shotgunning? This picture is a couple of years old.My heart just melted. She is a little doll!:D

March 12, 2008, 08:59 PM
A fine example of civil disobedience was provided in "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" by Robert A. Heinlein. Some good stuff on the below site.

March 12, 2008, 09:10 PM
I'll see if these will attach. Apologize up front for the quality. They're bitmaps, not jpegs. I'll see if I have copies at home that are better quality.

Oh, and these are also very un-PC pictures as well.

March 12, 2008, 09:20 PM
Also from Simon Jester:

March 12, 2008, 09:21 PM
Rules: Rules are for bending and breaking. Just keep posts civil and polite and where a kid can participate.

The Executive Staff of THR Rebels is fed up with Political Correctness, Indoctrination, Brainwashing, Propaganda and Whiny-Butt-itis

[I posted the OP's quote to cover my butt for hi-jacking this thread a little bit]

Am I going crazy or is that beat-up old shooting bench your son is resting
his elbow on one of many such out at the ASC range in Mansfield? I've been
a member out there for many years, and I swear, if that's not it, it must
be a clone.:scrutiny:


And I AM a member of the TSRA

March 12, 2008, 10:52 PM

I have bayonets.

Larry Ashcraft
March 12, 2008, 11:15 PM
My heart just melted. She is a little doll!
Sadie has been melting hearts for 3 1/2 years now (especially her grandpa's). Don't feel lonesome. ;)

cpaspr: Those pics don't come across well with my Earthlink dialup access, but she sure looks like Sadie. I'll take a look tomorrow at the shop on DSL.

March 12, 2008, 11:21 PM
I'll betcha sm has read "Steal This Book."

Thinking about, it, yes I did. I was in the 10th grade when that book by Abbie Hoffman came out.

On the success of the book, Hoffman was quoted as saying, "It's embarrassing when you try to overthrow the government and you wind up on the Best Seller's List."

March 12, 2008, 11:29 PM
Some of the "hippies" that some gun folks like to bitch about have forgotten more about political activism, civil disobedience, and controlling a situation than a lot of you will ever learn. Gunnies keep trying to fight today's battles like it's still 1776.

Abbie Hoffman wrote one of the bibles on the subject.

Putting a sticker on a "gunbusters" sign is NOT polite. In fact, it's defacing something.


ETCss Phil McCrackin
March 12, 2008, 11:44 PM
Here's my boy engaging a 200 yd target from the bench with a Match M14.

March 12, 2008, 11:50 PM
Here's a photochop of my boy protecting his Mom:

(she was really holding it, but that was cut out)

March 13, 2008, 12:03 AM
We are reluctant to admit that we owe our liberties to men of a type that today we hate and fear -- unruly men, disturbers of the peace, men who resent and denounce what Whitman called 'the insolence of elected persons' -- in a word, free men. - Gerald W. Johnson

March 13, 2008, 01:07 AM
I'm not an UZI expert, but I do watch Military Channel a lot.
The UZI is Israeli, the markings on this are Arabic? Talk about irony.

March 13, 2008, 01:11 AM
sm, this is an excellent idea.

I've thoroughly enjoyed reading and seeing all of the posts to this point.

March 13, 2008, 01:13 AM
Am I going crazy or is that beat-up old shooting bench your son is resting
his elbow on one of many such out at the ASC range in Mansfield?

No it's a range down in Cleburne. Is that Mansfield range still open?

And to avoid the hijack here's another Disobedient picture.

No firearms here, no need for the ATF......

March 13, 2008, 01:17 AM
Thought about using this as a sig line:

Life's a bitch when you life in WA, Leg Dist 48/Con Dist 1-
Both Senator's-Anti, speak out about CCW in Nat'l Parks
State Reps and Sen-So frickin' anti they want serialize ammo

I do have two neighbors that I shoot with on occasion.

March 13, 2008, 01:35 AM
I had 100 of these printed up as business cards. The printed side is coated with UV laminate. The cards are good to leave laying around gun free zones, a less confrontational way of making the sheeple think.

March 13, 2008, 01:49 AM
Putting a sticker on a "gunbusters" sign is NOT polite. In fact, it's defacing something.
This is true, lucky for me my university doesn't have those signs up, they just expect everyone to know the laws and school regs. So what I'm thinking of doing is printing out a bunch of catch phrases like "when seconds count the police are just minutes away" and putting them on the public bulletin boards around campus. (If anyone has any really good ones they think I should put up feel free to send it to me in a message.)

March 13, 2008, 08:27 AM
My son, Le Carbine Court, on his first day out with his Chipmunk .22.

March 13, 2008, 08:28 AM
There's been some reference to Abbie Hoffmans book. In case anyone hasn't "stolen" it yet and wants an electronic copy e mail me at the address in my profile and I'll e mail you back a copy. I think Abbie would have wanted it that way. :D

It really is outdated and some of the stuff in there is time and place speciffic, but a fun read non the less. (Dial Up Warning - the file is almost 1MB in size so for someone still on dial up it may take a while to download.)

"It's embarrassing you try to overthrow the government and you wind up on the Best Seller's List." -- Abbie Hoffman


Grandpa Shooter
March 13, 2008, 11:55 AM
Just had to join in. The pictures are of my stepson who recently enlisted in the Army to establish some direction for his life. We got criticzed for him "posing" this way. Heck, it was all in fun! Wonder what the same people think of him WANTING to go to Iraq because "we're there and somebodys got to go."

March 13, 2008, 12:10 PM
My girls posed for these pics after we had a day of shooting. I think the smiles say it all.

March 13, 2008, 12:54 PM
In the spirit of political incorrectness, I offer the following from Blood of the Fold by Terry Goodkind:

Them's the vermin: them who take what little we can earn or make with our hands so as to promise it right back to us, expecting us to be thankful to their kind hearts; them who tempt good people to be lazy so they can rule us like they do sheep at a trough; them who took our freedom and our ways. Even a foolish old woman like me knows that lazy people don't think for themselves; they only think about themselves. I don't know what the world's coming to.


March 13, 2008, 12:57 PM
"The first one's really expensive. The rest are free." -- John Ross in Unintended Consequences

March 13, 2008, 01:15 PM
Abbie Hoffmann was one of my heros growing up. I was introduced to him at age 12 and it hurt my brain (this was pre-internet of course).

Chapter on guns in STB -- "Piece Now". Very solid if dated intro advice on guns explained in simple terms.
I'm sorry he chose to leave us too soon. He would have made a remarkable elder statesman for the

It is a great thing that the once rare STB has been reprinted and , of course , is free online.

Stump Water
March 13, 2008, 01:29 PM
This is a bit dated, but I think it fits here.

40 Reasons for Gun Control

1. Banning guns works, which is why New York, DC, & Chicago cops need guns.

2. Washington DC's low murder rate of 69 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control, and Indianapolis' high murder rate of 9 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control.

3. Statistics showing high murder rates justify gun control but statistics showing increasing murder rates after gun control are "just statistics."

4. The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban, both of which went into effect in 1994, are responsible for the decrease in violent crime rates, which have been declining since 1991.

5. We must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any time and anyone who would own a gun out of fear of such a lunatic is paranoid.

6. The more helpless you are the safer you are from criminals.

7. An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray, but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you.

8. A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.

9. When confronted by violent criminals, you should "put up no defense -- give them what they want, or run" (Handgun Control Inc. Chairman Pete Shields, Guns Don't Die - People Do, 1981, p.125).

10. The New England Journal of Medicine is filled with expert advice about guns; just like Guns & Ammo has some excellent treatises on heart surgery.

11. One should consult an automotive engineer for safer seatbelts, a civil engineer for a better bridge, a surgeon for internal medicine, a computer programmer for hard drive problems, and Sarah Brady for firearms expertise.

12. The 2nd Amendment, ratified in 1787, refers to the National Guard, which was created 130 years later, in 1917.

13. The National Guard, federally funded, with bases on federal land, using federally owned weapons, vehicles, buildings and uniforms, punishing trespassers under federal law, is a "state" militia.

14. These phrases: "right of the people peaceably to assemble," "right of the people to be secure in their homes," "enumerations herein of certain rights shall not be construed to disparage others retained by the people," and "The powers not delegated herein are reserved to the states respectively, and to the people" all refer to individuals, but "the right of the people to keep and bear arm" refers to the state.

15. "The Constitution is strong and will never change." But we should ban and seize all guns thereby violating the 2nd, 4th, and 5th Amendments to that Constitution.

16. Rifles and handguns aren't necessary to national defense! Of course, the army has hundreds of thousands of them.

17. Private citizens shouldn't have handguns, because they aren't "military weapons", but private citizens shouldn't have "assault rifles", because they are military weapons.

18. In spite of waiting periods, background checks, finger printing, government forms, etc., guns today are too readily available, which is responsible for recent school shootings. In the 1940's, 1950's and1960's, anyone could buy guns at hardware stores, army surplus stores, gas stations, variety stores, Sears mail order, no waiting, no background check, no fingerprints, no government forms and there were no school shootings.

19. The NRA's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign about kids handling guns is propaganda, but the anti-gun lobby's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign is responsible social activity.

20. Guns are so complex that special training is necessary to use them properly, and so simple to use that they make murder easy.

21. A handgun, with up to 4 controls, is far too complex for the typical adult to learn to use, as opposed to an automobile that only has 20.

22. Women are just as intelligent and capable as men but a woman with a gun is "an accident waiting to happen" and gun makers' advertisements aimed at women are "preying on their fears."

23. Ordinary people in the presence of guns turn into slaughtering butchers but revert to normal when the weapon is removed.

24. Guns cause violence, which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows.

25. A majority of the population supports gun control, just like a majority of the population supported owning slaves.

26. Any self-loading small arm can legitimately be considered to be a "weapon of mass destruction" or an "assault weapon."

27. Most people can't be trusted, so we should have laws against guns, which most people will abide by because they can be trusted.

28. The right of Internet pornographers to exist cannot be questioned because it is constitutionally protected by the Bill of Rights, but the use of handguns for self defense is not really protected by the Bill of Rights.

29. Free speech entitles one to own newspapers, transmitters, computers, and typewriters, but self-defense only justifies bare hands.

30. The ACLU is good because it uncompromisingly defends certain parts of the Constitution, and the NRA is bad, because it defends other parts of the Constitution.

31. Charlton Heston, a movie actor as president of the NRA is a cheap lunatic who should be ignored, but Michael Douglas, a movie actor as a representative of Handgun Control, Inc. is an ambassador for peace who is entitled to an audience at the UN arms control summit.

32. Police operate with backup within groups, which is why they need larger capacity pistol magazines than do "civilians" who must face criminals alone and therefore need less ammunition.

33. We should ban "Saturday Night Specials" and other inexpensive guns because it's not fair that poor people have access to guns too.

34. Police officers have some special Jedi-like mastery over handguns that private citizens can never hope to obtain.

35. Private citizens don't need a gun for self-protection because the police are there to protect them even though the Supreme Court says the police are not responsible for their protection.

36. Citizens don't need to carry a gun for personal protection but police chiefs, who are desk-bound administrators who work in a building filled with cops, need a gun.

37. "Assault weapons" have no purpose other than to kill large numbers of people. The police need assault weapons. You do not.

38. When Microsoft pressures its distributors to give Microsoft preferential promotion, that's bad; but when the Federal government pressures cities to buy guns only from Smith & Wesson, that's good.

39. Trigger locks do not interfere with the ability to use a gun for defensive purposes, which is why you see police officers with one on their duty weapon.

40. Handgun Control, Inc. says they want to "keep guns out of the wrong hands." Guess what? You have the wrong hands

March 13, 2008, 01:33 PM
Well, there's the left, and then there's Abbie's left... I suspect that they wouldn't care to have him around today... Because he wouldn't like them very much.

Y'all need to also realize that stuff like The Anarchist's Cookbook and The Poor Man's James Bond wasn't thrown together to be sold at gun shows... More like head shops, and those little "bookstores" around college campuses...

March 13, 2008, 01:50 PM
...and the Loompanics Catalog, the Abode Hacienda, Paladin Press, etc.

The old joys of mail order; where you send in your money and hope the 'bookstore' is still in business.

Now, the PDF flies at you free or nearly so depending on one's scruples.

March 13, 2008, 02:12 PM
Well, OK. This sounds fun. :P

I've posted this image a couple of times at various places now, but it fits in well, here:

That wsa about a year and a half ago. He turned 4 at Xmas time, and he'll probably be ready to start cutting up the paper with a Henry Chipmunk or similar come this summer. I'm so excited. :)

Here's another one, the wife with him when he was even younger (no, she wasn't shooting while holding him):

Brad Johnson
March 13, 2008, 03:49 PM
My father, brother, and nephew - Christmas a couple years ago.


March 13, 2008, 05:36 PM
Charlton Heston's Speech to the Harvard Law School Forum
February 16, 1999

I remember my son when he was five, explaining to his kindergarten class what his father did for a living.
"My Daddy," he said, "pretends to be people."

There have been quite a few of them. Prophets from the Old and New Testaments, a couple of Christian saints, generals of various nationalities and different centuries, several kings, three American presidents, a French cardinal and two geniuses, including Michelangelo. If you want the ceiling re-painted I'll do my best. There always seem to be a lot of different fellows up here. I'm never sure which one of them gets to talk. Right now, I guess I'm the guy.

As I pondered our visit tonight it struck me: If my Creator gave me the gift to connect you with the hearts and minds of those great men, then I want to use that same gift now to re-connect you with your own sense of liberty ... your own freedom of thought ... your own compass for what is right.

Dedicating the memorial at Gettysburg, Abraham Lincoln said of America, "We are now engaged in a great Civil War, testing whether this nation or any nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure."

Those words are true again. I believe that we are again engaged in a great civil war, a cultural war that's about to hijack your birthright to think and say what resides in your heart. I fear you no longer trust the pulsing lifeblood of liberty inside you ... the stuff that made this country rise from wilderness into the miracle that it is.

Let me back up. About a year ago I became president of the National Rifle Association, which protects the right to keep and bear arms. I ran for office, I was elected, and now I
serve ... I serve as a moving target for the media who've called me everything from "ridiculous" and "duped" to a "brain-injured, senile, crazy old man." I know ... I'm pretty old... but I sure Lord ain't senile.

As I have stood in the crosshairs of those who target Second Amendment freedoms, I've realized that firearms are not the only issue. No, it's much, much bigger than that.

I've come to understand that a cultural war is raging across our land, in which, with Orwellian fervor, certain acceptable thoughts and speech are mandated.

For example, I marched for civil rights with Dr. King in 1963 -- long before Hollywood found it fashionable. But when I told an audience last year that white pride is just as
valid as black pride or red pride or anyone else's pride, they called me a racist.

I've worked with brilliantly talented homosexuals all my life. But when I told an audience that gay rights should extend no further than your rights or my rights, I was called a

I served in World War II against the Axis powers. But during a speech, when I drew an analogy between singling out innocent Jews and singling out innocent gun owners, I was called an anti-Semite.

Everyone I know knows I would never raise a closed fist against my country. But when I asked an audience to oppose this cultural persecution, I was compared to Timothy McVeigh.

From Time magazine to friends and colleagues, they're essentially saying, "Chuck, how dare you speak your mind. You are using language not authorized for public consumption!"

But I am not afraid. If Americans believed in political correctness, we'd still be King George's boys - subjects bound to the British crown.

In his book, "The End of Sanity," Martin Gross writes that "blatantly irrational behavior is rapidly being established as the norm in almost every area of human endeavor. There seem to be new customs, new rules, new anti-intellectual theories regularly foisted on us from every direction. Underneath, the nation is roiling. Americans know something without a name is undermining the nation, turning the mind mushy when it comes to separating truth from falsehood and right from wrong. And they don't like it."

Let me read a few examples. At Antioch college in Ohio, young men seeking intimacy with a coed must get verbal permission at each step of the process from kissing to petting to final copulation ... all clearly spelled out in a printed college directive.

In New Jersey, despite the death of several patients nationwide who had been infected by dentists who had concealed their AIDs --- the state commissioner announced that health providers who are HIV-positive need not. .. need not ... tell their patients that they are infected.

At William and Mary, students tried to change the name of the school team "The Tribe" because it was supposedly insulting to local Indians, only to learn that authentic Virginia
chiefs truly like the name.

In San Francisco, city fathers passed an ordinance protecting the rights of transvestites to cross-dress on the job, and for transsexuals to have separate toilet facilities while undergoing sex change surgery.

In New York City, kids who don't speak a word of Spanish have been placed in bilingual classes to learn their three R's in Spanish solely because their last names sound Hispanic.

At the University of Pennsylvania, in a state where thousands died at Gettysburg opposing slavery, the president of that college officially set up segregated dormitory space for black students.

Yeah, I know ... that's out of bounds now. Dr. King said "Negroes." Jimmy Baldwin and most of us on the March said "black." But it's a no-no now. For me, hyphenated identities are awkward ... particularly "Native-American." I'm a Native American, for God's sake. I also happen to be a blood-initiated brother of the Miniconjou Sioux. On my wife's side, my grandson is a thirteenth generation native American ... with a capital letter on "American."

Finally, just last month ... David Howard, head of the Washington D.C. Office of Public Advocate, used the word "niggardly" while talking to colleagues about budgetary matters. Of course, "niggardly" means stingy or scanty. But within days Howard was forced to publicly apologize and resign.

As columnist Tony Snow wrote: "David Howard got fired because some people in public employ were morons who (a) didn't know the meaning of niggardly,' (b) didn't know how to use a dictionary to discover the meaning, and (c) actually demanded that he apologize for their ignorance."

What does all of this mean? It means that telling us what to think has evolved into telling us what to say, so telling us what to do can't be far behind.

Before you claim to be a champion of free thought, tell me: Why did political correctness originate on America's campuses? And why do you continue to tolerate it? Why do you, who're supposed to debate ideas, surrender to their suppression?

Let's be honest. Who here thinks your professors can say what they really believe?

It scares me to death, and should scare you too, that the superstition of political correctness rules the halls of reason.

You are the best and the brightest. You, here in the fertile cradle of American academia, here in the castle of learning on the Charles River, you are the cream. But I submit that you, and your counterparts across the land, are the most socially conformed and politically silenced generation since Concord Bridge.

And as long as you validate that ... and abide it ... you are - by your grandfathers' standards - cowards.

Here's another example. Right now at more than one major university, Second Amendment scholars and researchers are being told to shut up about their findings or they'll lose their jobs. Why? Because their research findings would undermine big-city mayor's pending lawsuits that seek to extort hundreds of millions of dollars from firearm manufacturers.

I don't care what you think about guns. But if you are not shocked at that, I am shocked at you. Who will guard the raw material of unfettered ideas, if not you? Who will defend the core value of academia, if you supposed soldiers of free thought and expression lay down your arms and plead, "Don't shoot me."

If you talk about race, it does not make you a racist. If you see distinctions between the genders, it does not make you a sexist. If you think critically about a denomination, it does not make you anti-religion. If you accept but don't celebrate homosexuality, it does not make you a homophobe.

Don't let America's universities continue to serve as incubators for this rampant epidemic of new McCarthyism.

But what can you do? How can anyone prevail against such pervasive social subjugation?

The answer's been here all along. I learned it 36 years ago, on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington D.C., standing with Dr. Martin Luther King and two hundred thousand people.

You simply ... disobey. Peaceably, yes. Respectfully, of course. Nonviolently, absolutely. But when told how to think or what to say or how to behave, we don't. We disobey social protocol that stifles and stigmatizes personal freedom.

I learned the awesome power of disobedience from Dr. King ... who learned it from Gandhi, and Thoreau, and Jesus, and every other great man who led those in the right against those with the might.

Disobedience is in our DNA. We feel innate kinship with that disobedient spirit that tossed tea into Boston Harbor, that sent Thoreau to jail, that refused to sit in the back of the bus, that protested a war in Viet Nam.

In that same spirit, I am asking you to disavow cultural correctness with massive disobedience of rogue authority, social directives and onerous laws that weaken personal freedom.

But be careful ... it hurts. Disobedience demands that you put yourself at risk. Dr. King stood on lots of balconies. You must be willing to be humiliated ... to endure the modern-day equivalent of the police dogs at Montgomery and the water cannons at Selma.

You must be willing to experience discomfort. I'm not complaining, but my own decades of social activism have taken their toll on me. Let me tell you a story.

A few years back I heard about a rapper named Ice-T who was selling a CD called "Cop Killer" celebrating ambushing and murdering police officers. It was being marketed by none other than Time/Warner, the biggest entertainment conglomerate in the world.

Police across the country were outraged. Rightfully so-at least one had been murdered. But Time/Warner was stonewalling because the CD was a cash cow for them, and the media were tiptoeing around it because the rapper was black. I heard Time/Warner had a stockholders meeting scheduled in Beverly Hills. I owned some shares at the time, so I decided to attend.

What I did there was against the advice of my family and colleagues. I asked for the floor. To a hushed room of a thousand average American stockholders, I simply read the full lyrics of "Cop Killer"- every vicious, vulgar, instructional word.


It got worse, a lot worse. I won't read the rest of it to you. But trust me, the room was a sea of shocked, frozen, blanched faces. The Time/Warner executives squirmed in their chairs and stared at their shoes. They hated me for that.

Then I delivered another volley of sick lyric brimming with racist filth, where Ice-T fantasizes about sodomizing two 12-year old nieces of Al and Tipper Gore.


Well, I won't do to you here what I did to them. Let's just say I left the room in echoing silence. When I read the lyrics to the waiting press corps, one of them said "We can't print that." "I know," I replied, "but Time/Warner's selling it."

Two months later, Time/Warner terminated Ice-T's contract. I'll never be offered another film by Warners, or get a good review from Time magazine. But disobedience means you must be willing to act, not just talk.

When a mugger sues his elderly victim for defending herself ... jam the switchboard of the district attorney's office.

When your university is pressured to lower standards until 80% of the students graduate with honors ... choke the halls of the board of regents.

When an 8-year-old boy pecks a girl's cheek on the playground and gets hauled into court for sexual harassment ... march on that school and block its doorways.

When someone you elected is seduced by political power and betrays you...petition them, oust them, banish them.

When Time magazine's cover portrays millennium nuts as deranged, crazy Christians holding a cross as it did last month ... boycott their magazine and the products it advertises.

So that this nation may long endure, I urge you to follow in the hallowed footsteps of the great disobediences of history that freed exiles, founded religions, defeated tyrants, and yes, in the hands of an aroused rabble in arms and a few great men, by God's grace, built this country.

If Dr. King were here, I think he would agree.

Thank you.

El Tejon
March 13, 2008, 06:02 PM
Noted THR smart-mouth cited for purchasing firearms for nephews:

March 13, 2008, 09:35 PM
In our country, the lie has become not just a moral category but a pillar of the State. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn

March 13, 2008, 11:34 PM
This is a great thread.

A few posts have mentioned Abbie Hoffman's Steal This Book. For anyone interested in reading it, a copy can be found on this website (

For those interested in examining Thoreau's classic essay, "On the Duty of Civil Disobedience," an annotated copy can be found here (

March 14, 2008, 12:07 AM
If you want a Big Brother, you get all that comes with it. - Erich Fromm

Cmdr. Gravez0r
March 14, 2008, 12:36 AM
Here's my politically incorrect tidbit for the day...

I'm proud to be a white Anglo-Saxon conservative Southern gun-owning Protestant.

March 14, 2008, 01:02 AM

That's my mom, though I've only had her out shooting once unfortunately, just with my Winchester 9422

March 14, 2008, 01:09 AM
For the new folks...

I, a Southern Boy born and raised in the South with a gun in my dresser draw upon coming home from being born too early...
Who shot that gun at age 3, started rifles at age 4, and shotguns at age 5...
This Southern Boy raised with a shotgun behind the door and guns in the house as a normal part of growing up...

Gets a Anti Gun, Pro Gun Control, English Literature instructor born and raised in the UK, that became a US citizen.

Some first days of a college semester one just knows that semester is going to be "something else".

Rebel that I am, I am not the only one that does not see eye-to-eye with this lady instructor that talked funny.
I do not talk funny, I am from around these parts, she was not from around these parts.
Me going to England and ordering Fish & Chips, damn straight I would be the one talking funny and "correcting" the first nice Brit that called me a "Yankee".
Matter of principle you do understand...*wink*.

Her curricula was laden with her agenda...
I bow up real good...

Gun Lock on a Fire Extinguisher...

She kept going on about gun control and them free gun locks some bunch was going to be giving away and then later raised a hissy fit when she got word some boxes of them locks come up missing.

It is college, I am watching my money, so are other classmates on the Pro Gun side.
If someone is giving out free pizza, soft drinks, including my favorite - Dr. Pepper, and all one has to do is nod, smile and look dumb, I and mine can do that for a damn good Supreme Pizza.
Business is Business and I and mine were checking out the enemy...*burp*

We even helped clean up, I mean were were going that way and they asked if we could take some boxes out...
They aimed them fingers at some boxes.
Hell, I am a shotgunner, I point, not my fault them boxes had gun locks and literature...

I and mine knew some folks need gun locks, like for kids bikes and all...
I and mine decided to impress this UK Instructor by coming to class with our gun locks...easiest 10 points I ever got for extra credit.
Just she never said I could not stick my gun lock on a kitchen size fire extinguisher.

<Queens English>

That is the most uncivilized idea I have ever seen! If there was a fire, that lock would restrict one from accessing it to extinguish a fire.


The instance she finished , it hit her what she said.
Have you ever seen a British Broad that talks funny have a conniption fit?

Helluva deal, let me tell you.

Oh this was just the beginning of what all went on between that lady and her agenda and me and mine not agreeing with her agenda.


March 14, 2008, 01:45 AM
great story man. I had a socialist poli-sci prof who was similar to your lit prof, without the accent. This was at the U of Wyo, not really Southern, but similar mentalities (I think). I was fresh off the farm and this yayhoo was set on pushing his agenda, I wouldn't have none of that. I only wish I would have been able to do something so clever, I'm not sure trigger locks were around in those day though. :)

March 14, 2008, 02:44 AM
Bogie, steal this book is a great read, even 30 years after it was written. And I actually did steal it from a friend of mine, haha.

March 14, 2008, 03:19 AM
Hrmm, I don't have any pictures.

Does it qualify that I intend to take my 4 year old out shooting this summer, as long as she's comfy with the length of pull?

Oh, and also Larry is that a BA/UU/R button? If so, where can I get one? Need!

chris in va
March 14, 2008, 03:44 AM
You guys are lucky. I've never had a good experience shooting with anyone under the age of 18. As a matter of fact, I had one kid point my (unloaded) gun at me and yell BANG BANG.

Another one I know recently got charged with brandishing a firearm (airsoft). Age 13.

Kinda sours the whole 'teaching kids to shoot' thing for me.

March 14, 2008, 05:42 AM
Civil disobedience?

I suggest purchasing M16 fire control parts ( or full auto "MAC" parts ( for "storage." If you're scared about the "constructive possession" crap, store them at a friend's.

March 14, 2008, 09:49 AM
Kinda sours the whole 'teaching kids to shoot' thing for me

While I can understand that, please don't let this discourage you. Just continue to run through the safety stuff up front, presented in a grave manner, and then let the kids safely have fun shooting. All those kids we might decide not to teach because of a few bad apples will be voting in a few short years.

March 14, 2008, 11:35 AM
I would encourage everyone to go look up Carl Marx's 10 planks of Communism. Read the communist manifesto and then compare it with the Constitution. then compare it with what the candidates are talking about.

Grizzly Adams
March 14, 2008, 12:27 PM

Looks like he means business!

March 14, 2008, 01:18 PM
Since we are posting pictures of kids, here is our baby. These pictures have been sent into our school district as part of her homeschooling portfolio. :evil:

Shooting my EBR

Shooting an equally evil pistol

My grandson shooting (pretending to shoot actually) the Remington .22. He was not allowed to pull the trigger, or even have it loaded, without an adult helping him. But boy did he have fun.

March 14, 2008, 01:59 PM
My daughter. She's at college and after Christimas vacation where we did this shooting, she would show this picture and tell her friends, "Don't mess with me...I went home this vacation and practiced." Her version of being a rebel.

God! What a wonderful person she is.

I know about the ear protection. The picture was posed.

March 14, 2008, 03:09 PM
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

-Karl Marx

March 14, 2008, 06:10 PM
I have what I call "the Second Amendment gene." This DNA was passed down to me from at least as far back as my 5th great-grandfather. See, he was captured and publicly hung at the express order of then-Continental-Governor, William Tryon. His alleged crime? Treason against the Crown of England. I have no doubt he could be considered guilty for he, among others, fought against British authorities in the "War of the Regulators," considered by some to be one of the first acts of the American Revolution. His son, my 4th great-grandfather, subsequently helped win independence from the Crown.
My point today is that they needed their arms then to gain recognition of inalienable rights. I need mine now to help keep those rights. They fought for them, and if threatened so will I.

A favorite flag from the Revolutionary Era:

By the way, "Vince Aut Moirire" means "Conquer or Die."

How's this for something a bit more timely:

50 Shooter
March 14, 2008, 06:22 PM
Here's one of my favorite pics of my son.

March 14, 2008, 10:09 PM
50 Shooter -

Wanna adopt another son? Already grown?

That looks like fun!!! Full-auto, or semi?

Oh, wait. You're in SoCal, PRK. Gotta be a semi.

March 14, 2008, 10:41 PM
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. ~Robert A. Heinlein, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress

March 14, 2008, 11:40 PM
I am a Southern Boy raised a certain way and I have my convictions.

Re: UK English Lit Instructor .
Setting: Live Theatre , where some classmates whom agreed with the Anti Gun / Gun Control instructor were in attendance.

Me and mine were carrying concealed. We had parked more close having knowledge of this setting and had arrived early.

Performance over and these other female students ,whom disagreed with me and mine about CCW, Gun Control, did not appreciate my "example" with the gun lock on the fire extinguisher....

Were scared to walk to where they had parked. It seems it was dark, some youths were hanging out and ...

"No. You have your ideas about staying safe and me and mine have ours.
I suggest you flip a coin and see who dials 911 and who gets raped first".

My words were said in a calm voice, matter of fact like and I turned and walked off.
The others of like kind ran up and actually said I was a bit too much of a cold hearted bastard.
I shared I did not think so, for if I choose to be a rude, crude, nasty SOB, folks will have no trouble being sure I am.

Weekend comes and goes and Eng Lit class.
It seems the gals made it to class.
One came up and called me outside in private , before class and lit into me, them cried and then just grabbed me sobbing.

They were that damn scared. They begged, pleaded for Security to walk them out, and Security said they were not allowed, as Insurance and who they worked for said , the Theatre was where they had to stay.

One did break the rule, and did walk them out.
Police were busy with a situation, and response times were long.

This classmate who had agree with Gun Control, had Anti Gun sentiments, was really that pissed at me...and real serious about being grateful I had really pissed her off and gotten her mad.

She wanted what me and mine had. So I shared some things, met with her and handed her off to a couple of ladies I knew.
This pissed her off as she wanted me to teach her.
"No Darlin' my role is to piss folks off and then hand off to others".
Later I did assist her and she did get a CCW.

Even later got that gal up to speed on shotguns...
We still refer to each other by dirty names - just now the context is different...

It takes what it take and it works if you work it. AA 12 Step saying.

March 15, 2008, 03:00 PM
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. ~ Sir Winston Churchill

March 15, 2008, 07:17 PM
My three-year-old nephew visited last night and my M1 was out when he first came over. It immediately caught his attention and you should have seen the way his eyes got big. I quickly grabbed the camera and snapped off this picture. Too bad I won't be able to bring him to the range for a few more years.

Sans Authoritas
March 15, 2008, 08:35 PM
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. ~ Sir Winston Churchill

I wonder if he said this before or after he himself "fed the crocodile" by his participation in Operation Keelhaul, which resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Russian refugees?

We all know which crocodile his predecessor, Chamberlain, fed.

Politicians do that. They think they have a right to feed you or parts of your property to crocodiles. Usually, they themselves are the conniving reptiles.

-Sans Authoritas

March 15, 2008, 11:14 PM
One of my beauties with her Daisy...

March 16, 2008, 05:49 PM
First, what is it you want us to pay taxes for? Tell me what I get and perhaps I’ll buy it. ~ Manuel O’Kelly, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress by Robert A. Heinlein

March 16, 2008, 10:23 PM
It seems that most professors I've seen that teach poli-sci are some of the worst. Which is ironic in a way, they're teaching a class about American government and their own political views are the exact opposite of what the American government was set up as.

For my part, I have a pretty decent general knowledge of history. My professor, during the lectures, would start saying how they should change certain ways the US government worked. I was able to heap scorn upon those silly ideas (thank you Col. Dubois) by providing an instance in the past where the exact same thing has been tried before and either failed, or resulted in a totalitarian regime (take away private gun ownership, socialized health care, etc.). I've since come to believe that the people that still believe some of their nanny state ideas would actually benefit people are all suffering from massive self delusion where little things like logic, facts, and reality can't possibly be bothered with.

March 16, 2008, 10:28 PM
First, what is it you want us to pay taxes for? Tell me what I get and perhaps I’ll buy it.That question has gotten me banned from DU atleast 5 times.

March 16, 2008, 11:01 PM
"... or if you persist in having a government, let the governors pay for it out of their own pockets. I can think of no better way of discouraging this particularly anti-social habit." Prof. Bernardo de la Paz - The Moon is a Harsh Mistress

Apologies if the quote is not quite exact. My last copy is completely worn out and hasn't been replaced yet. the next will be my fourth.

March 17, 2008, 08:35 PM
I have only five words for you: From my cold, dead hands. ~ Charlton Heston

March 17, 2008, 08:46 PM
Don't ask me why it was top secret, or even restricted; our government has gotten the habit of classifying anything as secret which the all-wise statesmen and bureaucrats decide we are not big enough girls and boys to know, a Mother-Knows-Best-Dear policy. I've read that there used to be a time when a taxpayer could demand the facts on anything and get them. I don't know; it sounds Utopian. ~ Robert A. Heinlein The Puppet Masters

March 17, 2008, 09:39 PM

March 18, 2008, 12:12 AM
Ok, that shirt is awesome. WANTS.

March 18, 2008, 12:14 AM
Go to for that shirt. My favorite is the one with photos of LOTS of different handguns.

The caption is, "Celebrate DIVERSITY"

March 18, 2008, 12:18 AM
Thanks! On my way now... I see a whole list of birthday gifts coming off that site :D

March 18, 2008, 09:19 AM
O.K. here's my soon to be wife in her lil' black dress, with my big black rifle.
Here she is at the range, no lil' black dress ofcourse :rolleyes:
Lastly here's one of her with a friends Uzi, because she saw a pic of a soldier with an Uzi in this thread and said "I've shot one of those!". :evil:
Best part is she is an english education major. Which means by next year she will be a highschool english teacher. The teacher she is shadowing now is an Army brat herself and wants to go to the range with us. :what:

March 18, 2008, 10:16 AM
@ Bones11b,

I wouldn't post pics of my fiancée for all the creeps on the net to ogle. Just saying.

March 18, 2008, 05:26 PM
Just me mere existence causes Anti's to soil their pants. A lot.
Me with a Kimber: (

Me with an AR-15: (

Mom with a Kimber: (

Me holding a Marlin 336, while the guy behind me's wife shoots an FN FAL.

March 18, 2008, 08:37 PM
What are the marks of a sick culture?

It is a bad sign when the people of a country stop identifying themselves with the country and start identifying with a group. A racial group. Or a religion. Or a language. Anything, as long as it isn't the whole population.

A very bad sign. Particularism. It was once considered a Spanish vice but any country can fall sick with it. Dominance of males over females seems to be one of the symptoms.

Before a revolution can take place, the population must loose faith in both the police and the courts.

High taxation is important and so is inflation of the currency and the ratio of the productive to those on the public payroll. But that's old hat; everybody knows that a country is on the skids when its income and outgo get out of balance and stay that way - even though there are always endless attempts to wish it way by legislation. But I started looking for little signs and what some call silly-season symptoms.

I want to mention one of the obvious symptoms: Violence. Muggings. Sniping. Arson. Bombing. Terrorism of any sort. Riots of course - but I suspect that little incidents of violence, pecking way at people day after day, damage a culture even more than riots that flare up and then die down. Oh, conscription and slavery and arbitrary compulsion of all sorts and imprisonment without bail and without speedy trial - but those things are obvious; all the histories list them.

I think you have missed the most alarming symptom of all. This one I shall tell you. But go back and search for it. Examine it. Sick cultures show a complex of symptoms as you have named... But a dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than a riot.

This symptom is especially serious in that an individual displaying it never thinks of it as a sign of ill health but as proof of his/her strength. Look for it. Study it. It is too late to save this culture - this worldwide culture, not just the freak show here in California. Therefore we must now prepare the monasteries for the coming Dark Age. Electronic records are too fragile; we must again have books, of stable inks and resistant paper.
--- Friday and Dr. Baldwin in Friday by Robert A. Heinlein

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