Sig P220 vs. 1911


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cowssurf
March 13, 2008, 07:11 PM
I have been thinking about a 1911 lately. I like the way they look. In the hand they feel okay, if not slightly oblong. I recently picked up a Sig P220 and like the shape of the grip a little more. It holds one more shot. I can get it in DA/SA. And then another kicker was demonstrated in my recent CCW course. The instructor took apart a 1911, to show us how to clean it, and I was a little surprised at how much simpler modern semi-autos are to break down. The 1911 had about 1.2 gazillion steps. So what do you all think of the Sig, and how easy/difficult is it to breakdown? How does it shoot (ergonomics wise) compared to 1911s? I'm new to the .45 game but I'm looking for an all-metal one. Feel free to throw out other suggestions for all-metal .45s.

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Noxx
March 13, 2008, 07:16 PM
I won't stump for one or the other, I love and own both.

I will point out however, that while the 1911 takes a moment longer to field strip, try detail stripping a Sig sometime. The real "guts" of the sig are far more complex, tool intensive, and require (imho) more frequent care.

Chem Geek
March 13, 2008, 07:19 PM
Like Noxx said, field stripping a Sig is super easy. Detail stripping, is some serious work. :)

james_bond
March 13, 2008, 07:30 PM
Is detail stripping a 1911 easy?

doubleg
March 13, 2008, 07:35 PM
^ No

Lonestar49
March 13, 2008, 08:07 PM
...

For me personally, knowing what I know now with my full size P220 and my 2 1911's, for first time owner, first time gun, I'd steer ya towards the best of both worlds IMO, a Sig P220 Carry SAO, especially for "ease of disassembly, inspection, cleaning, and reassembly, along with, no teething problems with Sigs and what they will shoot/eat, and what they won't.. they just start shooting, accurate out of the box, and keep on going..

So my best and easiest road to take choice for ya would be either Sig P220 Carry model (shoots just as good as a full size, no difference in recoil IMO) but offers less barrel and slide length along with SAO, cock and lock, OR DA/SA is your best choice. DAK is for later, maybe.. But if you go DA/SA, then your next gun, and change, should be with SAO, you'll see.. lol

BUT.. With a little bit of time, in disassembly, inspection, cleanings, and reassembly of my 1911's, they really are very easy, but that is not an easy first, second time, event that comes easy, as does the Sig from the get go.

But, knowing what I have "learned" and "experienced", both in grip feel, and ease of accuracy and finding out what my 1911's like and don't like, I give both guns, a big thumbs up.. Both guns are GREAT platforms, shooters, accurate, ccw or otherwise..

Best of luck, but you are right in that :eek: in seeing, and trying to remember the take-down and get "the feel" down, and right, and easy, with a 1911, first out of the gate, so to speak.. (but the manual does explain it well IMO)

Enjoy, your choice



Ls

Cowboy2
March 13, 2008, 08:21 PM
Field stripping a 1911 looks a lot harder than it is. I wouldn't mark it against them. Its a few more steps, but its not difficult.

That said, both types are great. Buy the one you like more.

VARifleman
March 13, 2008, 08:37 PM
Is detail stripping a 1911 easy?
It's not bad, takes a little practice and reading what to do.

Personally, I think a sig is clunky and don't like the controls.

BlindJustice
March 13, 2008, 08:38 PM
That's what I like about The HIgh Road Forum. I didn't know the Sig 220 is a more tool intensive etc. detail strip job.

Just to throw in a 3rd possible candidate for the O.P.

How About the CZ 97
It has DA/SA as well as a thumb safety instead of a
decocker so the Cocked & Locked option is available from
the first round or if a pause in shooting engage the thumb
safety and no bother with the decocker.
How does the CZ 97 compare in terms of
* Field stripping
* Detail stripping


CZs are known for good accuracy
Oh, and it's a 10 shot clip.

High Planes Drifter
March 13, 2008, 09:06 PM
I have a Sig 220, and a 1911. The Sig is a great gun, no doubt. It is a bit chunky tho. I would rather the 1911 for carry. My 1911 and my Sig have both been extremely reliable. I rather the controls of the 1911, and the way it sits in the hand better. Also, 1911 mags are easier to load.

BlindJustice
March 13, 2008, 09:57 PM
* Are the SIg P220 mags 7 rd or 8 rd - Factory or Aftermarket Options?

* Seems to me looking at the dimensions of the CZ 97 it must be a single
stack magazine, since the overall height over the 1911 is enough to give it
the 10 rd capacity but it has the same width as the other double stack CZ75/85 siblings at 1.4" I noted on the SIg Arms site they list their fairly new SIg 1911 offering as having a 1.37" width.

Oh, I found a prior THR thread of CZ 97 vs P220 at

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=55013

Enjoy - I'm happy with my S&W 1911 - which begs the question for the
O.P. to specify since 1911s come in so many flavors but there is only
one SIg P220 - which generic type of 1911 do we compare it to?

I have the S&W 1911, with a lot of nice standarde extras
then you can go up market or
down market to say a Mil-SPec Springer.

But the 1911 has certainly earned it's status as
the yardstick which others are judged by.

Lonestar49
March 13, 2008, 10:18 PM
...

They, least mine came with, come with two, 8+1 mags (8) and one 10+1 mag (10) from the factory..


Ls

Quiet
March 13, 2008, 10:24 PM
SIG P-220 Carry SAO.

Cause I grew up shooting 1911s but perfer the reliability of the SIG.

AK103K
March 13, 2008, 10:26 PM
no teething problems with Sigs and what they will shoot/eat, and what they won't.. they just start shooting, accurate out of the box, and keep on going..
This is the biggest advantage to the SIG's. Most 1911's these days are hit or miss, and its amazing how many people seem to think its normal to have to break a gun in, with your time and ammo no less.

I didn't know the Sig 220 is a more tool intensive etc. detail strip job.
Detail stripping either is pretty simple once youve done one or two.

* Are the SIg P220 mags 7 rd or 8 rd - Factory or Aftermarket Options?
The older factory mags were 7 rounders, the new mags are 8.

A full size P220 is actually a Commander sized gun. They all carry the same, even the full sized 1911's, and I really doubt you would notice any diference.

alaskanativeson
March 13, 2008, 10:47 PM
The Sig would get my vote.

Even though I'm not a particular fan of the 1911, I'll not speak evil of it either. They've been a "been there, done that" gun since before my father, a WWII vet, was born. A good many elite organizations use them. I just don't really like the way they feel in my hand, I don't like the arrangement of the controls and I don't like the way they come apart. Great gun, just not my cuppa joe.

The Sig is a fantastic firearm. remarkably reliable and accurate, excellent quality, good ergonomics for me. I love the ones I've shot and my friends who own them can't say enough good about them.

Really it comes down to which you are more comfortable with. Feel both and if possible, shoot both. That will tell you a lot. Either gun would do well for you.

Jason_G
March 13, 2008, 10:56 PM
I love both. For carry, I would probably buy the Sig, but a good 1911 would be a great piece as well, ugh that is a tough decision...

Jason

Phil DeGraves
March 14, 2008, 09:43 AM
You can get 8 round magazines for the 1911 as well, so there really is no round advantage of the SIG over the 1911. The Sig is okay; it's a good reliable accurate gun. But I like the 1911 better.

robctwo
March 14, 2008, 09:56 AM
I have owned the 220 and some 1911s. Bought the Sig first. Stainless version. Accurate, reliable and and attractive. I was trying to avoid 1911s. Once I bought a 1911, I bought a few more. Found I wasn't shooting the Sig at all and sold it to a good home. I have small hands and the 1911s fit me better than the 220, even with the slim grips.

Here's my 220 with the slim grips sitting next to a 1911

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/robctwo/DSCN0467.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/robctwo/DSCN0466.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/robctwo/DSCN0463.jpg

I also found that for range used I prefer the SA triggers. My carry guns vary.

usp_fan
March 14, 2008, 11:02 AM
Most of what I would say has already been said. I own both. I carry the P220 more often than the 1911. It is lighter and carries 1 more round. The 1911 is slightly flatter and the grip is somewhat smaller even with slim grips on the 220.

As far as accuracy goes, both of mine are pretty good. I can't tell much of a difference except the 1911 has a more gentle recoil cycle--likely due to it's weight.

Technosavant
March 14, 2008, 11:16 AM
I've never found a 1911 to have a difficult or involved field strip at all.

The Sig 220 is a good gun. A 1911 is a good gun (provided it is properly made). One major issue with 1911s is the amount of hand fitting required in its construction; if it isn't done exactly right, you're going to have issues. The Sig is probably a better choice for out of the box shooting, but quite honestly, I don't know of any gun I'd trust defensively out of the box. I've even had revolvers not work 100% out of the box, and those tend to be more reliable than autoloaders (no magazine issues).

As always, go with what feels nice and you shoot well; I don't think you can go wrong either way.

waterhouse
March 14, 2008, 12:19 PM
The 1911 had about 1.2 gazillion steps.

I wouldn't let this steer you away from the 1911. Field stripping a Sig is almost as easy as it gets, but field stripping a 1911 isn't exactly rocket science.

Depending on who makes your 1911, both will be reliable and accurate. I find them both to be very comfortable to hold. I like the SA trigger on the 1911 more than the SA trigger on the 220. Either way you've got two good candidates.

evan price
March 14, 2008, 12:28 PM
I personally prefer a Sig 220 over any 1911. I like DA/SA decocker. I like the way the gun feels. Its accurate and reliable without fail.
As far as full stripping goes- not needed very often. I regularly remove the feedramp block from my P220 to clean it better and that's a snap- no tools required.

RobertFBurnett
March 14, 2008, 01:28 PM
To me also it depends on which 1911, I love my Kimber Gold Match, but thought the Sprinfield Mil-Spec felt bony and rough. A P-series SIG will have little variation compared to the myriad of 1911s Kimber, Colt, Sprinfield, etc make.

A 220 ST Elite is my next SIG, in about 9 months +- when the State of CA approves it. But I already own a 1911...so I guess I'm not really helping.

One question to 220 owners, when you press the slide release does the checkering bite (I define bite in this case as when you press the release and the slide slams home the rear serrations glance the tip of my thumb) your thumb? Reason I ask is on my 226 it has never done it, but on a rental 220 it bit me like 3 times. Willing to chalk it up to it being a rental.

My Buck-0-5

RFB

buenhec
March 14, 2008, 01:38 PM
I have both and love both. Depends what you want it for. Sig for carry, has a decocker and DA. 1911 when you are a bit more experianced or for competition shooting..or get both.

AK103K
March 14, 2008, 02:51 PM
...when you press the slide release does the checkering bite...
I havent encountered any. Maybe its just how you hold the gun.

One thing I have noticed is, the slide stops can vary in height, (which I think may be user modifications, I dont think they left the factory that way) which can cause the slide to go home on an empty mag, depending on your grip style.

I was experimenting with a "thumbs forward" grip with my SIG's and was having pretty good success with it until I picked up a surplus P6. All of a sudden, I started having the hammer drop on an empty chamber/empty mag. When I changed back to the thumb over thumb, it went away. I later noticed that my second P6's stop was a lot flatter to the grip (like all my other SIG's), and that the first guns stop appeared to have been bent upwards, perhaps for more leverage in getting it to let go.

I still prefer the SIG's slide stop position over the 1911's. They just seem more logical in their placement.

Lonestar49
March 14, 2008, 04:09 PM
Quote: ...when you press the slide release does the checkering bite...
------------

Quote: I haven't encountered any. Maybe its just how you hold the gun.
------------
...

None here with either my P229 or P220, but what may be happening is; that the P220's having a much stiffer recoil spring, it may be making it hard to depress the slide release lever, so by really having to push on it much harder than, like my P229 9mms release, you're getting a bit of a pinch-like-hit from the slide as it snaps forward.

I treated mine, still do, with EEZOX when it is home on stand-by in and for my office gun. But when I get rdy to take my P220 to the range, I give the lever, via a oil tipped Q-tip, a nice light coating where it moves over the frame along with the area of the slide that it locks into, and it has become much free-er, in pressure-applied release efforts for me, and no more slight discomforts anymore for me when activating it..


Ls

BeJaRa
March 14, 2008, 04:34 PM
personally I have yet to find a handgun that fits my hand better than a proper 1911 style pistol. My SA 1911 had an extractor issue when I got it (used) SA fixed it and 1000 rds later it has not even hiccuped on anything I have feed it ball or hollow point. But as with anything goes with what feels better to you. I would not carry my 1911 if I could carry my Colt trooper 6" but I am not enough man to conceal a 6" colt trooper

Sir Aardvark
March 14, 2008, 10:40 PM
The SIG 220 is also a classic in its own time.

Next to the 1911, the SIG 220 would be the auto .45ACP to own.

tbtrout
March 14, 2008, 11:30 PM
I have both. You can not go wrong with either one.

32winspl
March 15, 2008, 10:58 AM
I'm a lefty. The controls, other than the mag release are not lefty-friendly. However, neither was my 1911; I had to buy the ambi-safety... but at least I could modify it to correct that "oversight".
It has long blown my mind that ANY company would still make a firearm without fully-ambi controls. (Liability? We ain't worried about no stinking liability).

AK103K
March 15, 2008, 11:26 AM
I practice "wrong handed" with my SIG's and have never found them to be difficult to shoot or operate using my left hand. You can decock or drop the slide using your trigger finger with little shift of your hand. You can also reach over and drop the slide with your thumb in a pinch, or skip it all together and just slingshot it.

At least with the SIG, theres no safety to worry about.

GunBugBit
August 21, 2009, 06:11 PM
For me the slightly more involved field stripping is a small downside, if any.

The 1911 disassembly isn't bad at all. The reassembly is a bit problematic to some people. I remember a few young Army officers who admitted they weren't very good at putting their Colts back together, despite having been trained in it.

When I first got mine, I practiced in front of the TV a couple of nights, and it became pretty easy putting it back together. It takes a few times to get quick and precise with moving the slide to the right place for the next step in takedown/reassembly. Trickiest thing is getting the slide stop back in without scratching the frame -- it really snaps right into place with very little pressure once you've mastered the feel. I'm sure most 1911 owners have a little scratch where the end of the slide stop swings up, so don't feel bad if you have one there.

Several companies make 1911s. If you break a part or wear it out, you can order a replacement from many sources and have it in your hands quickly. Holsters and other accessories are plentiful. They are more concealable than some think as they are slim, especially with slimline grips. They shoot great and will last longer than most owners of them.

Sigs -- I've shot 'em, like 'em OK but don't own one, don't get what the extra high pricetag is all about. But if you've spent a lot on one, of course you're going to convince yourself it's worth it.

Dr_2_B
August 21, 2009, 06:20 PM
I'm not super crazy about either. I have one SIG and one 1911, but my feeling towards each of them is similar. Their manual of arms is different than my other guns. On the SIG, the mag release is in a different place, and on the 1911, well the entire manual of arms is pretty different.

But of course, my view of handguns is CCW tools.

AK103K
August 21, 2009, 07:15 PM
....don't get what the extra high pricetag is all about. But if you've spent a lot on one, of course you're going to convince yourself it's worth it.
Extra high compared to what? Over time, I paid for my SIG's about what I paid for my Colts. From what I see, that hasnt changed much.

One thing in common with Colt and SIG for me has been, they have both worked out of the box, although the Colts tend to still need "something" to suit me. The SIG''s on the other hand, have just needed ammo.

Now if you want to talk about extra high price tags, we can compare my buddys $2500 Nighthawks to my standard P series SIG's that now a days run around $850. I can have three for one there, and like my Colts, the $2500 1911's still need that "something" the SIG's dont.

As far as convincing yourself if its worth it, I hope you dont ever run across any of those 1911 clones I sold off. They will drive you to buy SIG. ;)

The Lone Haranguer
August 21, 2009, 08:43 PM
I would love to have a P220 SAO. It should combine the "cocked and locked" single-action trigger and thumb safety (which, unlike the 1911, is ambidextrous as standard and allows the slide to be jacked) of the 1911 with SIG reliability. The 1911 is more slender and flat than the SIG, however.

GunBugBit
August 24, 2009, 05:44 PM
$2,500 isn't much money.

Well, for a gun, it is. :D

DougDubya
August 24, 2009, 05:49 PM
I'm a lefty. The controls, other than the mag release are not lefty-friendly. However, neither was my 1911; I had to buy the ambi-safety... but at least I could modify it to correct that "oversight".
It has long blown my mind that ANY company would still make a firearm without fully-ambi controls. (Liability? We ain't worried about no stinking liability).
I'd have to disagree on that part. The slide stop is a bit far back and requires more canting out of the master hold, but lots of people tend to override the stop using the slingshot method, which is good enuff for me.

crebralfix
August 24, 2009, 05:56 PM
SIG P220 is totally left handed friendly. Use your index finger to release the magazine and operate the decocking lever.

rhinoh
August 24, 2009, 05:58 PM
- which begs the question for the
O.P. to specify since 1911s come in so many flavors but there is only
one SIg P220 - which generic type of 1911 do we compare it to?



Actually there are about 32 variations listed on the Sig site of the P220 besides the size difference of the Standard/Carry/Compact:)

I have a Sig P220 Carry and a Taurus PT1911 ALR. Both have been flawless.
I like them both...if I had to choose...I'd probably go with the Sig, not that there is anything wrong with the 1911, I've owned it longer and really don't care for fooling with safeties etc if I was in a defensive situation.

HexHead
August 24, 2009, 06:04 PM
I went to the range with a friend of mine that had a SIG 220, and I brought the Kimber Pro Carry I had. We switched off and I didn't shoot his 220 near as accurate as I was shooting my 1911. He really liked my pistol and a couple of weeks later traded the SIG for a Wilson CQB Elite 1911. He hasn't said anything about missing the SIG. Oh yeah he has, he doesn't . ;)

btw, if easy field stripping is of importance to you, get a Glock. ;)

HexHead
August 24, 2009, 06:06 PM
I've owned it longer and really don't care for fooling with safeties etc if I was in a defensive situation.

Fooling with safeties? Is this seriously an issue with your 1911 for you?

AK103K
August 24, 2009, 06:25 PM
Pick what you shoot best, as long as long as it works. A good 1911 will shoot as good as anything else, as will a P220.

The rub here is, your more likely to find a SIG P220 that works out of the box than you are a 1911 clone. Its the main reason I no longer bother with the them, or even the Colts. Just got tired of all the fiddling, and aggravation of having to deal with a new gun that needed work, and often, right out of the box. So far, I have yet to do anything but put ammo in the mags with my SIG's and shoot them.

The best solution here is actually quite simple, buy one of each. The SIG will be the easy one, the 1911, well, thats best left to a Colt, or one of the more expensive models thats not one of the run of the "puppy mill clones".


Fooling with safeties? Is this seriously an issue with your 1911 for you?
They can be at times, depending on what you have and if its working properly or not. I've had thumb safeties that were so stiff, it took a great deal of effort to get them off. They just didnt come off with a nice easy sweep. I've had some that were just the opposite, and would not stay on. I've had Springields with oversize safeties that were razor sharp and cut your thumb with every shot. I've also had the plunger tubes work loose and fall off a couple. I've had grip safeties that would not release the trigger unless held "just so". I've also had a couple of NIB 1911's that the grip safeties didnt work at all.

Thats a lot of "fooling" I could have done without. Once you get used to not dealing with one, you quickly dont miss them. Even so, after all those years of carrying a Commander, I still draw everything just like it were a 1911, and my thumb is still there for the sweep.

btw, if easy field stripping is of importance to you, get a Glock.
Actually, the SIG's are easier and safer for most people than the Glocks.

CapnMac
August 24, 2009, 06:42 PM
I could really say. I have both. I learned long ago on a 1911. So, field strip for either is about the same time for me; ditto cleaning (which may be more about laying out cleaning tools and practice than any innate superiority).
Have carried both, concealed and holstered. I've a hair more accessories for 1911 than for SIG, that seems to be the only reason it gets a "nod" more than any other.

GRIZ22
August 24, 2009, 07:02 PM
Massad Ayoob wrote an article regarding such a choice. He said the 1911 is one of the greatest combat pistols in the world. However, police use handguns much more for threat managaement and not combat shooting and a DA auto was better for that.

I agree with him I'd take the SIG.

rhinoh
August 24, 2009, 07:28 PM
Fooling with safeties? Is this seriously an issue with your 1911 for you?

Yes it could be. Don't know for sure never had a high stress defensive situation. With probably 25 pistols in the household and only 2 of them having safeties, then yes I'm much more used to just pulling the trigger. Which is why my 1911 is for fun and will not be used for defense, at least not on purpose.. The Sig 220 stays on the nightstand for whatever comes up, not the 1911. Besides my Sig has night sights:p

Now a 1911 guy that shoots them exclusively or even mostly wouldn't have that issue with a safety. Kind of like I drive 3 different vehicles, they all have a different layout for wipers, lights, cruise control etc...drives me nuts:neener:

All my carry guns are DA- PPS or P11 or PF9 or P3AT or S&W 38 snubbie..

Sheepdog1968
August 24, 2009, 07:54 PM
I like them both. For me, I just love Sigs. I suggest you shoot both and see if one speaks to you more. Both are great. Sigs are easy to break down but the 1911 is easy as well and I certainly wouldn't let that be the deciding factor for me.

crebralfix
August 25, 2009, 09:13 AM
I just love it when they get in force on force and flubb either the grip or sweeping the thumb safety. It can happen at any time to anyone...even those who train frequently. Just think: FoF is almost NO pressure and people still manage to mess it up.

Our ancestors knew what they were doing when they invented double action revolvers.

LancerMW
August 25, 2009, 03:50 PM
ok ok, i found a solution, get a Sig GSR....now you have a Sig 1911 best of both worlds. i love mine.

GunBugBit
August 27, 2009, 12:40 PM
When you say '1911' you could be talking about one of several brands and widely varied feature packages, and a gun that could be anywhere from nearly 100 years old to brand spanking new. If you're buying new and you know what's available in the various 1911 instances, you should be able to select one that is going to be fine right out of the box. MORE than fine.

Also, I don't get the fuss over safeties.

Are some of us imagining ourselves in movie-like scenarios where our lightening-quick draw (of a beloved Sig, of course) allows us to dispatch three bad guys before they can even draw, but ohhhhhh, that wouldn't be possible with one of those horrid 1911 thumb safeties.........

Come on.........the vast vast majority of us will be shooting at paper, water jugs and the occasional piece of fruit until the end of our days. There aren't enough bad guys to fulfill the Dirty Harry fantasies of those who collect dozens of guns and keep 'em all immaculately cleaned and oiled.

If we DO face a bad guy and it turns into an actual gunfight and we lose because we didn't snap down that doggone safety quickly enough...oh well...I guess we should've practiced more...OR, maybe having a Sig instead would not have mattered one bit...

crebralfix
August 27, 2009, 01:04 PM
GunBugBit's opinion of most shooters is pretty low. Based upon what I see a the range, perhaps he's right. Unprepared is unprepared and there is a lot to learn. Most people tend to resist the idea of self-defense training since they think the state mandated requirements for a concealed weapon/handgun permit is sufficient. Hopefully, GunBugBit's peek into the future is correct for these folks.

He certainly thinks he knows what's going on in the minds of other people. His skills in telepathy are impressive.

Beelzy
August 27, 2009, 03:39 PM
Yep, SIG GSR is the BEST of both worlds.

The SIG is so close in design to the 1911 that I switched slides on a 1991A1 and a GSR
and they both functioned flawlessly. I'm not too keen on the SIG mags though, they like
to choke on my Cor-Bon defense loads.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c82/beelzy/ColtSig3.jpg

silversport
August 27, 2009, 03:46 PM
I am a South Paw and have to have the ambi-thumb safety but have found no pistol fits my hand like the 1911 type pistols do...that said...I have owned and carried many SiGs and after you get used to the initial "this feels weird" of using the trigger finger for decock and leave the mag release alone (I used to carry my P226 and P220 with the release reversed...faster the normal "righty" way) I have no problems with a P220...though I have sold most of my SiGs off I still have a P225 and a P220 Compact...
Bill

Jason_G
August 27, 2009, 06:54 PM
I love both. For carry, I would probably buy the Sig, but a good 1911 would be a great piece as well, ugh that is a tough decision...

Jason

Although I have always been fond of 1911s, in the time since I made the above post, I have very much been bitten by the 1911 bug, and would like to officially reverse my opinion :p For carry, the slimness of the 1911 is sooo nice.

Still love the P220 though. Great DA/SA pistol IME.


Jason

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