Airgun Pellet Rifle


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DCoats
March 14, 2008, 10:16 AM
I'm looking at getting an accurate pellet rifle, and understand that you usually get what you pay for. Main purpose is target shooting, hopefully in my suburban backyard.

I found a good deal (about $75) on a Winchester 1000FT at Bass Pro Shop, and noticed that its basically the same model as the 1000X which was priced at about $139.00. I read a few reviews of it online and it seems okay. I'm sure the scope is junk. Just wondering if anyone out there has some good advice on affordable entry level break barrel pellet gun. I would really like something that is accurate.

I have heard good things about Beeman, Gamo, and DWS, but don't know anything about the difference or what justifies an extra $150 above the $75 Winchester.

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OldWolf
March 14, 2008, 03:31 PM
I have a RWS Diana 52 (.177) which is quite accurate and powerful. It was a little over $300 and is the quality you would expect from Germany.

Try these sites for more AG info:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/184474/

and

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/

Good Luck

rcmodel
March 14, 2008, 03:41 PM
You pay more for a better trigger, better stock wood, smoother spring-piston action, better quality barrel, better (and easily replacable) seals, perhaps easier cocking, etc.

The cheap rifle/scope packages are generally not real good.
A good scope costs more then the package.
And a good rifle costs more then the package.
Combined, you aren't getting much of a scope, or rifle.

The big magnum-class air rifles are so big & heavy and hard too cock they aren't much fun at all for an old man like me.

If you want a really good, fun shooting one, look at a Beeman R-7.
http://www.beeman.com/r7.htm

It's only money, and you can't take it with you!

rcmodel

OldWolf
March 14, 2008, 03:47 PM
This is another good forum for air rifles.

http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=165

dagger dog
March 14, 2008, 05:08 PM
The RWS line depending on the model, to meet the demand of affordable, has like all other manufacturers out sourced their entry lines.
Along with Beeman and others the entry level models are Chinese and Korean made.

If you are looking for a quality air rifle do you home work and make sure you are getting what you pay for.

The Gamo line has become very popular latley due to slick advertising .

But the true quality guns are usually of European heritage and the price reflects it.

It is amazing how the lowly BB gun can show the gunmakers art, some of the higher end rifles are masterpieces

boatbod
March 14, 2008, 09:23 PM
Try here: http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/

SaMx
March 14, 2008, 10:15 PM
www.pyramidair.com is a good place if you're going to buy online.

Airborne
March 14, 2008, 10:18 PM
RCModel's got it right. The Beeman R7 is without a doubt a very fine choice for a target shooting airgun. It's fairly light, cocks easily, and has a very smooth firing cycle, key if you like shooting a lot. The trigger is also easily adjustable for weight and has a very precise feel. (Warning: the R7 is very addictive to shoot:D).

The best part? Accuracy of the R7 is nothing short of astonishing. Shooting it is just like threading a needle. I've put thousands upon thousands of Crosman premier 7.9 gr. pellets through mine and I swear it only gets more accurate with age. I bought it and a Bushnell 3x9 scope from Straight Shooters, who I highly recommend doing business with for your airgun needs. They have an excellent airgun site to browse around too.

http://www.straightshooters.com/beeman/r7.html

http://www.straightshooters.com/crosman/crppremiers.html

Mine's been worth every penny!

rangerruck
March 15, 2008, 12:22 AM
that is actually a very good start up model, no probs getting the winny. Now the others listed here are also all good, as is Gamo, but just remember, you really have to keep yourself under control on the air gun stuff. the scope you use should allways be airrifle rated, as air rifles are extemely hard on scopes, because of their bi-direction recoil. Also you may wanna look into PCP -pre charged pneumatic- airrifles. they are far more quite, dont' shake your teeth loose, and generally produce zero recoil, and super fun. I think Benjamin just introduced a truly intro production PCP rifle , for somewhere between 250 and 350 dollars, which if you know anything about PcP rifles, that is like giving them away. Try pyramidair.com or Arizonairrifles.
once you start shooting tiny groups out to 30 yards, and it is so quiet, and ammo is so cheap,
becoming addicted is very tough to avoid. I know have 3 cheapy type airguns, no wait 4; a replica ww2 german luger pistol that is sweet, a chinese pistol 6 inch bbl, A Dale Earnhardt model snapon tools rifle, and believe it or not, A Daisy red ryder.

DCoats
March 15, 2008, 01:07 AM
So, basically, what I am hearing is that an RWS 34 at around $200 or a Beeman R7 around $300 are about what I am looking for? Then perhaps get a scope later on? How much should I expect to pay for a decent scope?

JohnKSa
March 15, 2008, 01:17 AM
Here's a way to get a rough idea of pricing on the R7 and accessories.

http://www.straightshooters.com/beeman/r7price.html

DCoats
March 15, 2008, 04:42 AM
Is the RWS much louder than the Beeman?

dagger dog
March 15, 2008, 08:47 AM
D,

I shoot a R9 Beeman with a Bushnell Sportsman 3X9 variable in .177cal.

The sound level is a level of a full soup can dropped on the kitchen floor from shoulder high.

Accuracy is outstanding with the right pellet selection. The pellets are the key some are usable some are pure garbage .Stay with the Diana Or Beeman. The heavier pellets show great accuracy out to 75 yds in the
R9, can keep them in a 9" pie pan if the wind isn't up. At 33 feet off a rest you can get one hole groups.

Hunting ground squirrels (we call 'em chipmunks) or starlings at 25yds can give one shot kills with the heavy hunting pellets. Grey and fox squirrels are a little to large for even the heaviest .177 but the .20's and
.22's will kill with authority.

Don't know if the RWS line has the
.20 cal .

On scopes you want to make sure the model you buy is made to stand up to the reverse recoil of a spring piston air rifle, some are not and will shake loose with a little use the reticules fall apart.

A word of caution with the spring piston guns , never dry fire the as it can cause damage to the seals, also they use a special non-combustible oils as the air that is quickly commpressed by the piston reaches high enough temperature to ignite petroleum based oils!

Addictive can not describe how you can become with you new air rifle , I honestly think mine grafted its self to my shoulder I shot it so much.

You will look at the 500 round tins of pellets and think how in the world could I shoot that many, I've shot that many in 1 session so if you buy them do it in quanity.

The triggers on the higher end models are excellent, and adjustable.

The air rifle will quickly become one of you favorites, they enforce all the shooting techniques. The olympic shooters have to be some of the most disciplined shooters punching paper. With the pellet in the barrel for such a long time, relative to faster launched powder projectiles
all of the techniques have to be exact to give high scores on the target.

YodaVader
March 15, 2008, 11:15 AM
dagger dog has stated some of the views of air rifle shooting that I have to agree with. I have owned my Beeman R7 for close to 5 years now and it certainly is easy to go through a lot more pellets than you thought possible.

Shooting the R7 at the indoor range during the cold weather months has actaully improved my shooting with my 22lr and centerfire rifles. The air rifle will really teach you to stay on target.

The report on the R7 is very quiet , not a hunting rifle really , about 700 fps max rating , but the accuracy is outstanding , cocking effort at 18lbs is very easy and a great trigger. If I get another air rifle it will probably be a R9 next time for longer range shooting. I also have an old Weihrauch HW30 which is very similar to the R7. I think Weihrauch is the actual builder of most Beemans.

Shooting a quality air rifle makes for a very satisfying range session.

JohnKSa
March 15, 2008, 11:19 AM
I think Weihrauch is the actual builder of most Beemans.Beeman, like RWS is a distributor, not a manufacturer and has sold a number of brands under their label, but Weihrauch is probably the brand most associated with them.

HOWEVER, since they were bought by Marksman, they have considerably expanded their non-Weihrauch line of products in the "budget" direction.

Eb1
March 15, 2008, 11:29 AM
I have a Daisy Powerline 22 cal. it has a 4x scope. It can shoot .5" up to 40 yards. The scope mount sucks. It has some varmint control power as well up to 40 yards.

dagger dog
March 15, 2008, 11:31 AM
JohnKSa

I was suprised to see Beeman on the shelf at Wally World for $79.
I even saw some Beeman .22cal rimfire rifle listed in the history books I guess they, or should I say he, had thier hands in everything.

JohnKSa
March 15, 2008, 11:31 AM
It can shoot .5" up to 40 yards.I've also had very good accuracy results from the less glamorous domestic airguns.I even saw some Beeman .22cal rimfire rifle listed in the history books I guess they, or should I say he, had thier hands in everything.I don't know who made their .22 rifles for them, they used to sell competition/match style rimfires, both rifles and pistols, if I'm not mistaken. The good Dr. was into a little of everything, it seems.

I haven't kept track well enough to know who's making the budget/Wal-Mart Beeman airguns these days, but it's not Weihrauch. ;)Addictive can not describe how you can become with you new air rifle , I honestly think mine grafted its self to my shoulder I shot it so much.With ammo prices the way they are, it's kind of surprising we're not seeing more airgun talk.

There's something to be said for buying 1250 rounds of competition grade ammo for under $15.

jcwit
March 15, 2008, 11:37 AM
I have a HW-30 and a R-1 both marketed by Beeman. You can't go wrong with either Beeman or RWS, both make excellant air guns. Both of mine are around 25 yrs old and shoot like new.

peck1234
March 15, 2008, 01:50 PM
I have the winchester u describe! Works Great 1 inch grouping at 50 yrds. I also put on a 4-32 scope which I bought here> (http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/accessory.pl?accessory_id=1227)

Id go for the winny, just make sure U keep the screws tight under the trigger and on the side. I stipped the inside of the 1st one not doing soo. :)

DCoats
March 21, 2008, 06:23 PM
I went with the RWS 34. Thanks to all for your input and suggestions. It is more accurate than I am I think... this is my first time getting any marksmanship training. I have put over 150 trouble free pellets downrage in my backyard.

I've been trying to get it sighted in with the irons which is a new experience for me and is educational. When it came out of the box it was shooting about 6-7 inches low. I cranked up the rear sight and after some time, determining that my sight picture was as dead on as I could make it, decided that the pellets had a tendency to hit about 3 inches right. I brought the sight over and tweaked for a while bringing it somewhat center now. I haven't had any complaints from the neighbors so far but the noise and kick of the rifle did surprise me the first time I shot it. It kinda sounds like a nail gun.

Quick question: I noticed today after a firing session of about 60-70 shots that some smoke escaped from the breech when I broke open the barrel to load the next pellet. Is this normal or is some lubricant burning off that shouldn't be?

rcmodel
March 21, 2008, 06:33 PM
It's perfectly normal for a new gun to smoke like that.

It's called dieseling, and the oil in the cylinder actually ignites from the compression, just like a diesel engine.

You may even notice a sharp "crack" occasionally and smoke coming out of the muzzle.

The gun will get smoother & more accurate after the oil all burns off.

Never use normal solvent or oil in the spring piston because it is worse about it then the special oil used in air guns.

rcmodel

dagger dog
March 21, 2008, 08:21 PM
D
The statement rc made about the type of oil is a prudent one as the wrong oil can damage the rifle.
If you really wake it up get a good scope mount and scope. I put a "muzzle break" but it is really a cocking aid, on mine to make the barrel longer therfore giving more leverage to ease in cocking.
The RWS line used to make a try out selection of pellets in different weights and profiles, they are very usful in finding the correct pellet,the Beeman line offers match grade individually weighed and swaged pellets for competition, but their Kodiak Match is a heavier pellet that is very accurate for longer range in the.177 cal line.
You didn't mention the cal. of your new RWS34 .
Another good acessory is a pellet seating tool, it's made to seat the pellet to the same depth on every shot so they stay consistant.Pellet seating depth can make quite a bit of difference along with pellet selection.
On cleaning use a non petrolem based cleaner most of them are some type of high power 409 or Fantastik hosehold cleaner,the oils are mostly silicone based there are piston chamber oils, (silicone) and rust preventitive, lubricating oils
(petroleum) so don't get them mixed up.
Give it about a month and the arm that you use for cocking the 34 will be an inch larger in the bicep, and you'll have to start cocking with the other arm!

DCoats
March 21, 2008, 09:41 PM
Thanks guys. This forum is really awesome and I really appreciate your help.

It is chambered for .177 pellets.

I got Hoppe's maintenance kit for air rifles. It comes with Hoppe's Lubricating Oil.. will that do? I also noticed that the manual states to not use a bore brush so I was just planning on using the rod, oil and patches. Will I need to get different oil for the springs and other parts?

JohnKSa
March 21, 2008, 11:03 PM
Be VERY careful cleaning the bore. First of all, it won't get dirty at anywhere near the rate that a firearm bore will so you should only need to clean it rarely. I've had some airguns for years that have never had a rod down their bores.

Do not use any solvent/lubricating/protectant product on an airgun that doesn't explicitly state that it's specifically for the particular type of airgun that you have. In your case, you need products oriented for spring-piston airguns. Other than wiping down the external surfaces to prevent rust, you should need to do VERY little lubrication/cleaning. Overlubrication is very common and can cause problems even when the proper products are used.

As far as the noise goes, a lot of noise/vibration is transmitted to the bones of your head from the stock. It's not as loud to others as it sounds to you.

dagger dog
March 22, 2008, 07:21 AM
D
The Hoppes kit should be ok, the patches will work well, and as JohnKSa says don't over do it.
I'm not fimiliar with the type of oil in the Hoppes kit, it may work for rust also, but I do use one of their silicone impregnated rags, to wipe my guns down with after handling.

rcmodel
March 22, 2008, 01:32 PM
Bore cleaning is really not necessary.

It gets oiled every shot, as you noted!

All I have ever used on mine is the felt cleaning pellets very occasionally.

RWS Oil & Cleaning pellets:
http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/rws%20maint.html

rcmodel

BUTCHER45
March 25, 2008, 10:14 PM
Here is a great way to find out which pellet shoots best in your airgun without having to spend a fortune.

http://www.straightshooters.com/straightshooters/sssampler.html

kBob
March 25, 2008, 11:26 PM
I picked up a Fienwerkebau Model 124 Sporter (4.5mm/.177) for only $69US.

OK, it was in 1982 and at an American Rod and Gun Club in Germany.

It served me well for a couple of decades and did infact drop grey squirrels inside 35 yards fairly well.

I bought it because I had the opertunity to and it was what Mel Tappen had recommended in his "Survival Guns" as an air rifle.

Unfortunately in the last year it seems the piston/seal has given up the ghost.

I have been unable to find a schematic to show me how to take the gun appart (and have no desire to be personally damaged by that big spring) and only one place that offers a repair kit.

Any help would be appreciated.

The straight shooters site has me thinking about that Beeman Apperature. Could be just the think for keeping the hand in for the M-1s (both flavors), Mini whatevers, and AR types for folk that shoot those with irons.

-Bob Hollingsworth

JohnKSa
March 26, 2008, 12:42 AM
IIRC, Beeman used to sell the 124. You might check with them for schematics or other information. If they can't help, they may know someone who can.

Here is a list of airgunsmiths. I have personal experience with Russ Best and have heard a lot of good things about Paul Watts. I would think that either one of them would be capable of getting your 124 back on its feet and working better than when it was new.

http://www.airgunartisans.com/AARepair.htm

moooose102
March 26, 2008, 07:04 AM
i personally like my crossman/sheridan blue streak. i grew up with one, it finally died when i was in my 30's. i replaces it about 6 months ago. the trigger isnt as good as it used to be in the older ones, or maybe its just because this doesnt have 10.000 rounds through it yet. but kill it will. i have killed lots of small game with it. squirrels, rabbits, crows,etc. prints pretty good on paper too. the absolout worse thing about this rifle is the lack of a GOOD scope mount for it. with my 50 + year old eyes, open sights are a thing of the past. the "b-square" is the best there is, and in my opinion, is hardly adequet for the job. its more money than you are planning, but quality usually is. i thought about other guns, but @ this stage of my life, familiarity was the deciding factor for me.

tallpaul
March 26, 2008, 07:24 AM
Beeman was bought out a few years back and they have introduced CHEAP guns to the line up. I am not talking of only price- so research what you buy!

I absolutely hate cheap airguns. They give quality airguns a bad name to quite a few and encourage the "I bought one that shoots 1500 fps for 50.00 crowd" :barf:

Inexpensive and value for the dollar do exist but look around on straightshooters or the yellow forum.

I still have my first HW 50 from the mid seventies. I used it exclusively until a few years back and the net reminded me of the guns I lusted for as a kid- one of those olympic class airguns and a few other new and classic ones I have added to the mix.

here are just a few classic springers just hangin around ...

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/pprudowe/DSCN0454.jpg

don't forget the pistols

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/pprudowe/airpistols.jpg

Be careful they are addictive ! They are easy and cheap to shoot since they can be shot USUALLY without a trip to the range etc. They will be more popular as costs go up and the value will be even more real.

tallpaul
March 26, 2008, 08:01 AM
hey moooose- those sheridens and benji's are rebuildable.... usually a reseal works. If ya still have it ya can likely get it fixed.

dagger dog
March 26, 2008, 04:15 PM
I owned a Sheridan Blue Streak, my father bought it for me out of a pawn shop in 1960, the 5mm pellets weren't available every where at the time and I had to order them mail order from Racine Wisconsin their home.
The rifle was as accurate and powerful enough to take rabbits and squirrels if I did my job and could stalk close enough for a kill. I don't know how the line turned out after the buy out by Benjiman, Sheriadan also had the Silver Streak guess it was chromed or nickled. The saftey on the old Blue Streaks was unique, it was spring loaded ,tang mounted device made of thin metal, that you had to hold depressed with your thumb, as you squeezed the trigger
the rifle automatically went into safe if the saftey was released.

jkingrph
March 26, 2008, 04:57 PM
I picked up a Fienwerkebau Model 124 Sporter (4.5mm/.177) for only $69US.

OK, it was in 1982 and at an American Rod and Gun Club in Germany.

It served me well for a couple of decades and did infact drop grey squirrels inside 35 yards fairly well.

I bought it because I had the opertunity to and it was what Mel Tappen had recommended in his "Survival Guns" as an air rifle.

Unfortunately in the last year it seems the piston/seal has given up the ghost.

I have been unable to find a schematic to show me how to take the gun appart (and have no desire to be personally damaged by that big spring) and only one place that offers a repair kit.

Any help would be appreciated.

The straight shooters site has me thinking about that Beeman Apperature. Could be just the think for keeping the hand in for the M-1s (both flavors), Mini whatevers, and AR types for folk that shoot those with irons.

I wish I had gotten mine via the R&G club when in Turkey in the early 70's but did not know about these fine rifles. I learned about them after returning to the states and ordered mine through Air RIfle Headquarters in W.Va. Seems as though I paid about twice your price for it then.

They are well worth having repaired, one of the best air rifles made. I had new seals and a tune up done on mine by Beaman about 12 -15 years ago and it's still going strong. I removed stock and only shipped metal work to have the work done, refinishing the stock at the same time.

Also have one of their 300 side cocking match rifles which is a hoot to shoot.

Mountie855
March 26, 2008, 05:32 PM
DCoats,

I have several Beemans and lesser airguns, and have never cleaned any of them, and haven't seen any noticeable degradation in accuracy. I should say also that I don't shoot thousands of pellets annually, though.

But I have seen a felt cleaning pellet advertised, by Beeman (I think) which is supposed to be fired thru the bore like a normal pellet, and thus clean it.

rcmodel
March 26, 2008, 05:39 PM
Beeman service dept. is alive & well and will be happy to service your Fienwerkebau Model 124.
They sold them for many years, and it was the flagship of the Beeman line.

http://www.beeman.com/sercust.htm#01

rcmodel

tallpaul
March 26, 2008, 05:48 PM
They sold them for many years, and it was the flagship of the Beeman line.

rcmodel

I would argue that comment... it was more likely the 300 in that time period. They were and are the premier or one of- manufacturers of olympic target guns. The sporter was a 'sideline" for them and dropped from production while the match guns evolved...


I personally love the 124, I have two ... and likely would not pass up a great deal on another :D

rcmodel
March 27, 2008, 08:58 PM
O.K.

Point conceeded!

What I meant was the 124 was the flagship of the Beeman Sporter line!

Is that better?

rcmodel

Peter M. Eick
March 28, 2008, 09:44 PM
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/beeman400.jpg

Hey I have one like that up above. First time I have ever seen another 400!

lightweight
March 28, 2008, 11:20 PM
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b317/demusn79/th_IM000181.jpg (http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b317/demusn79/IM000181.jpg)
RWS 34

And a foot!

MCgunner
March 29, 2008, 09:34 AM
Be aware anything at walmart, even if it says Beeman, is Chinese and will have a crappy trigger. You have to spend 300 bucks to get a decent trigger, I guess. Not that I'm willing to do that to find out. I got a Crossman for 100 bucks. Shoots well, 1" at 25 yards with a Beeman pellet that has a BB in the nose for some odd reason. Anyway, I have to work around that crappy trigger. Jeeeeesus, talk about creep! If it would stage a little at the end of that DA trigger, would be more controllable, LOL. And people grip about snubbies and Kel Tec P11s????? Someday, I'll buy a decent air rifle. For now, this thing will give me thrills in the back yard. I found out it's accurate enough to pop a grackle at 35 yards. :D Oh, yeah, the scope is a joke. I have 55 year old eyes, but the scope makes 'em worse.

My old Benjamin, took it out of the closet the other day. It fired a few years ago. I got it for Christmas when I was 7 years old. It no longer pumps up. Thanks for the link to airgun smiths. I may have to send this beat up old thing off to get a redo. Stock is cracked, would like to replace that, maybe, if possible.

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